Has the United States finally met its doom? How did we go from being the shining beacon for the world, to one of the most hated nations on earth in less then a few decades?

Can anyone here remember back when anything that was made in Japan was considered low quality or junk? Radios, Dishes, toys.. reguardless of what it was, as soon as people saw the stamp on the bottom that read "Made in Japan" they would immediately say:

"Hey that things no good, look at where it was made. "Made in Japan". If you buy that, you're just wasting money"


I hear that today, they (and many others countries) are saying the exact same things about us now

"Hey don't buy that, look at where it was made "Made in USA". Those guys in the states are so lazy, they're oursourcing jobs over here paying US to build things for them. If you buy that crap, you're just wasting money.

At the end of WWII, we were the richest and most powerful nation on the face of this earth. No one, not even the Russians would dare defy us. Since then, we drew a stalemate in Korea, Lost in Vietnam, and international Hatred towards us has been spreading like wildfire ever since.

There was once a time when the world wanted to be just like us. We were not only a superpower, we were a beaming icon that was both the idol and envy of almost every nation on earth. Today, we seem to be the exact opposite.

A friend of mines just returned from a business trip overseas (I cant say where), but he was very saddened to see just how many people there are that hate us now because of the troubles we are involved in throughout the middle east. The world tends to see us now as some kind of international bullies that everyone today seemingly wants to see fail.

WWII pulled this country together like no other war in its history and rose the public to a level of patriotism that had not been seen since the days of the Revolutionaly war. I look around and wonder "where is this patrotism today?"

I fear to even think of how the public would react if the government re-instated the Military Draft right now. In WWII we had people that were CEO's of Multi-Million dollar businesss walking away from everything they worked all their lives for, to sign up in the military and gladly give their lives to perserve all that they left behind for future generations. Many of our pro atheletes did pretty much the same.


If it could ever be possible, I hope that one day, we will rise back to the level our great grandparents did back in the 1940's and once again be able to travel anywhere in the world and be admired for the Proud nation that we once were.

:(

because people are noticing that america is one of the most spoiled arrogant selfish and fat nations on the planet.

also, america was never so noble. the "revolution" was just because of a bunch of people didn't want to pay taxes. but then create a nation where only rich white landowners could vote. which of course eventually changed, but that IS the ground basis for this democratic republic. majority rules, popularity wins, and the sheep baaaah loudly in ignorance.

america is not a true democracy. it is geared strictly for the top 1% of the population. not true freedom.

Has the United States finally met its doom? How did we go from being the shining beacon for the world, to one of the most hated nations on earth in less then a few decades?
We've always been hated by some nation or country. Being the hegemony only increased that hatred on a world-wide scale.

But I find it interesting that people such as yourself refer to us being supplanted by China or India as a "doom." Sure, it would be a failing on our part, but it is inevitable. They've the resources and populated workforce to do so, for America to fall from the "top spot of respectability" is a natural progression of civilization. America has the third largest population, the currently (by far) largest economy, and plentiful resources. We're not about to fade away on a world scale within our lifetimes just because a few gawdy Europeans or virulent Middle Easterners are going to refuse to buy our products.

america is not a true democracy. it is geared strictly for the top 1% of the population. not true freedom.
Yes ivan, you've given us your "democracy is not majority wins" shtick before.

DOnt worry, now that the Dems are back in power all of our problems will magically go away and the world will love us again

How did we go from being the shining beacon for the world, to one of the most hated nations on earth in less then a few decades?
Try less than a decade.

It's called not doing what they want us to.

Yes ivan, you've given us your "democracy is not majority wins" shtick before.
No shit....

Originally Posted by Dunkirk101
How did we go from being the shining beacon for the world, to one of the most hated nations on earth in less then a few decades?

Try less than a decade.

It's called not doing what they want us to.

Less than a decade, true.

It's called; being the largest exporter of terrorism on the planet.

every time I read a post by Freethjinker I hate America a little bit more

every time I read a post by Freethjinker I hate America a little bit more

The truth sometimes has that effect on people.

Although it is rare for it to have any effect on a rightwing zombie.

__________________________________________________ _________

American Capitalism is a malignancy that permeates our economic, social, and political systems and institutions. This untreated cancer ravaging the body of civilization is spreading like an unchecked conflagration in a munitions factory. Feudalism didn’t die; it simply evolved. Corporatism, Consumerism, wage slavery, debt slavery, free trade agreements, deregulation, and privatization condemn most of the global population to varying degrees of slavery, serfdom or indentured servitude.

hey freethinker, i think you'd like john trudell. he is quoted in paola igliori's book on him titled "stickman"

slavery is slavery. whether it is in chains, an indentured servent, or in debt. slavery is slavery.

American Capitalism is a malignancy that permeates our economic, social, and political systems and institutions. This untreated cancer ravaging the body of civilization is spreading like an unchecked conflagration in a munitions factory. Feudalism didn’t die; it simply evolved. Corporatism, Consumerism, wage slavery, debt slavery, free trade agreements, deregulation, and privatization condemn most of the global population to varying degrees of slavery, serfdom or indentured servitude.
Would you rather have the populace be servile to corporations of their choosing, or a state that is not of their choosing?

Less than a decade, true.

It's called; being the largest exporter of terrorism on the planet.
Either that, or it was a fickle friendship to begin with.

You know, you make me laugh, FT. I appreciate you for that more and more every day. :)

"Largest exporter of terrorism" aside, the whole concept of Europe suddenly growing a conscience after Iraq is quite the knee-slapper.

They must just be better people than we are, right FT?

Yes

Well, you can't really say they're worse people than we are. They're just in a more desperate situation. Were Americans in that situation, we'd probably be even worse.

How so?

Well, you can't really say they're worse people than we are.
That was never my intention.

In WWII we had people that were CEO's of Multi-Million dollar businesss walking away from everything they worked all their lives for, to sign up in the military and gladly give their lives to perserve all that they left behind for future generations.I'm not familiar with any of these tales.

***

Dunkirk, After the Tsunami, the United States sent incredible amounts of resources to the troubled regions. I can't be sure, but probably more than any other country.

Do you know how the media, the international press and self-hating Americans on AllForums characterized it? That Denmark sent more based on a percentage of their GDP.
Isn't that a desperately creative way to come up with a criticism?

Your post alludes to "people" who you "hear" saying we don't create good products any longer. Depending on who you choose to listen to you can hear any number of things. Most major items (cars, computers, etc....) were invented here due to a superior economic system, and copied elsewhere more cheaply due to our union system.
If you believe that unions are a good thing then you can say that we are even hurt by the good things we do.

I agree with Evakian that we have always been hated by someone. Your perception of it getting worse is based on the sources you are choosing and on what those sources are choosing to tell you.

Yes
See what I mean? God, you're funny.

How so?
Well, this is kind of unrelated, but it shows well that the "Western advantage" is due to circumstance and not natural advantage.

http://www.prisonexp.org/

Let's see how much I can parse this, so, what DID happen to the U.S.?

Can anyone here remember back when anything that was made in Japan was considered low quality or junk? Radios, Dishes, toys.. reguardless of what it was, as soon as people saw the stamp on the bottom that read "Made in Japan" they would immediately say:

"Hey that things no good, look at where it was made. "Made in Japan". If you buy that, you're just wasting money"


I hear that today, they (and many others countries) are saying the exact same things about us now

"Hey don't buy that, look at where it was made "Made in USA". Those guys in the states are so lazy, they're oursourcing jobs over here paying US to build things for them. If you buy that crap, you're just wasting money.

Partially true. It's not the fault of the American worker, per se. Americans remain as productive as ever and the things we DO produce can be of very, very good quality. Computers are one example, jets like what Boeing produces are another, Harley Davidson motorcycles are a third (at least I still THINK that's true). Mostly in the past, take automobiles, with protection from foreign competition the quality of autos deteriorated, the parts, the way the assembly line was ran and the fact that the automakers were making big, gas guzzling cars when the consumer market wanted more fuel efficient vehicles were another nail in the coffin. The shock the auto makers went through when imports came in was nearly catastrophic. The same thing can be said of Harley Davidson motorcycles when they were owned by AMC. There was and is the issue of taxation and government regulation, union rules, retirement benefits and other things that made manufactoring much, much more expensive. Taxation, regulation, union rules, massive benefits, a failure of innovation in both HOW a product was made as well the METHOD of making things in the U.S. has caused U.S. products to be higher priced and for a while, lower quality. It also doesn't help that the dollar is so strong against other currency and THAT makes American products to more expensive than identical products produces in third world nations. America DID suffer from a reputation of producing inferior products, and that reputation does still stick, dammit.

At the end of WWII, we were the richest and most powerful nation on the face of this earth. No one, not even the Russians would dare defy us. Since then, we drew a stalemate in Korea, Lost in Vietnam, and international Hatred towards us has been spreading like wildfire ever since.

I think the biggest blow to U.S. statue in the world came after Vietnam, the Carter Administration and the American idecisiveness during the 90s. It didn't help that our government was foolish enough to allow the Chi-Coms to have most favored nation trading status. Trading in our national security for the hope of being able to not only get cheap goods from China but to try to export to China was a very, very bad idea.

There was once a time when the world wanted to be just like us. We were not only a superpower, we were a beaming icon that was both the idol and envy of almost every nation on earth. Today, we seem to be the exact opposite.

To say that, you'd have to somehow dismiss the zillions of immigrants who come here, legally at least, to become Americans. The criticism that comes from other countries is that others DO want to become like Americans. Our music, movies, fashion, lifestyle seem to creep across the globe. People don't like it, but there it is, dammit.


A friend of mines just returned from a business trip overseas (I cant say where), but he was very saddened to see just how many people there are that hate us now because of the troubles we are involved in throughout the middle east. The world tends to see us now as some kind of international bullies that everyone today seemingly wants to see fail.

Oh, God, the Iraq thing. Damned if we do and damned if we don't. We're seen as being "bullies" for ousting a thug, and at the same time we're not doing enough to stop what is going on in the Sudan. Is this what this whole "nobody like American anymore" thing is about, Dunkirk? People don't like us because of IRAQ!? Historically, the U.S. has been far, far worse. The Monroe Doctrine comes to mind, dammit.

WWII pulled this country together like no other war in its history and rose the public to a level of patriotism that had not been seen since the days of the Revolutionaly war. I look around and wonder "where is this patrotism today?"

People saw a personal stake in the Second World War. People don't see how what happens in Iraq is going to affect us, so they are free to play politics with the war in Iraq. The Iraq war has become a political football in order to try to oust Bush, dammit.

Don't get too enamored with the Revolution. As many people living in the Colonies were against it for a varied number of reasons as were for it. THAT was a very, very bitter dispute, dammit. The Civil War was almost the same story, a thriving "peace" movement did flourish in the North during the last years of that war, dammit.


I fear to even think of how the public would react if the government re-instated the Military Draft right now. In WWII we had people that were CEO's of Multi-Million dollar businesss walking away from everything they worked all their lives for, to sign up in the military and gladly give their lives to perserve all that they left behind for future generations. Many of our pro atheletes did pretty much the same.

First off, unless we go to war with China or Iran, there will be no draft. Secondly, our armed forces are just as reluctant to have draftess in the service as most of the citizens are about being drafted. Secondly, at this time a push is on to increase the numbers of people in the Service. Before we panic about a draft, let's just sit back and see just how overstretched our military really is and if recruitment fails to get the numbers we need, dammit.


If it could ever be possible, I hope that one day, we will rise back to the level our great grandparents did back in the 1940's and once again be able to travel anywhere in the world and be admired for the Proud nation that we once were.

There was a time when America was far more aggressive in ascertain its foreign policy, it's just that the America people were proud of what the U.S. did. How about we stop being so self critical in the first place?

I think the biggest blow to U.S. statue in the world came after Vietnam, the Carter Administration and the American idecisiveness during the 90s.

I think the biggest blow to U.S. stature in the world came after Iran-Contra, selling arms to terrorist states, the corrupt Reagan/Bush Admnistration, and the exportation of American state-supported terrorism that shifted into high gear under Reagan during the 80's. Damn it.

Isolation and hatred is what happens in response to arrogance, jingoism and pre-emptive bombings of sovereign nations, killing women, children and elders at will.

As far as the quality of our products ... we have as good workmanship as any country. Fer crying out loud - all you need to be able to build a car is to read a torque-wrench which, to my knowledge, isn't exactly rocket science, even with a hangover. The problem is the parts which we have made in the bowels of maylasia, mexico or any other country that will undercut the bid. That's why american cars don't last as long as the payments. Now apply that logic to all our products and you have the answer.

Isolation and hatred is what happens in response to arrogance, jingoism and pre-emptive bombings of sovereign nations, killing women, children and elders at will.

Exactly!

__________________________________________________ ___

Just as the USA once teamed with allies to defeat the fascist cancers of German and Italian uber-nationalism, I fear that the whole world will eventually team up against fortress America to remove the fascist cancer that is growing within. ------anon

:(

Isolation and hatred is what happens in response to arrogance, jingoism and pre-emptive bombings of sovereign nations, killing women, children and elders at will.
That's the most blatant piece of sophistry I've ever read in my life.

If that's the way you feel (and I mean truly feel), then move. If that's what you think America does, then you don't belong here; you should be living in a bastion of hope - a paradigm of excellence and beacon of human rights....

You know, in a place like Cuba. Viva la Che', right?

Nice avatar, commie.

Preach your human rights bullshit elsewhere, Dop (O' maker of weapons for the US military) because (and I gotta tell ya - ) we're all stocked up here....

Originally Posted by Lungdop Philing
Isolation and hatred is what happens in response to arrogance, jingoism and pre-emptive bombings of sovereign nations, killing women, children and elders at will.

If that's what you think America does, then you don't belong here...

If you are unaware that that IS what America does, then you are remarkably self-deluded........and I will never feel that I "belong" in a country filled with the self-deluded and the willfully blind.

slavery is slavery. whether it is in chains, an indentured servent, or in debt. slavery is slavery.

Charles Dickens, who's father was thrown in a debtor's prison, knew all about that and it worked it's way into many of his books.

slavery is slavery. whether it is in chains, an indentured servent, or in debt. slavery is slavery.Oh that's deep....reeeeally deep.
Now having a mortgage is the same as being ripped from your family to become someone else's property.

This reminds me of the people on these boards who say we live under fascism. Their lives have been so easy and underchallenged that they strive to gives themselves depth by showing how supposedly difficult their lives are.

If you don't want to be a slave to a mortgage, then be a free man in a cardboard box over a subway grate.

Oh that's deep....reeeeally deep.
Now having a mortgage is the same as being ripped from your family to become someone else's property.
Bwahahahahahaha!!!

Exactly.

If you don't want to be a slave to a mortgage, then be a free man in a cardboard box over a subway grate.

There is a really neat new concept called "renting".

You should check into it.

There is a really neat new concept called "renting".
You should check into it.Yeah. Renting. Freedom.
Needing permission to paint, have a party, have a child, get a pet, replace the carpets, get new appliances.........
That's renting. You should check into it.


But actually, I disagreed that mortgage means slavery. You think it does?

But actually, I disagreed that mortgage means slavery. You think it does?

You disagreed with yourself? You tried to make the point that a mortgage was slavery.

The actual point that you were trying to argue against was that Debt is a form of Slavery.

And I generally agree with that point.

Ever heard of a Debtor's prison? They used to be quite fashionable in nations with lazze faire capitalism.

Ever heard of the homeless?
That is what becomes of a person who can't pay their mortgage.

You can't be truely free unless you can at least afford to eat and have shelter.