no. it doesn't. it's likely that observing bad relationships starting early in life can make you think that your parents are fucking assholes and you learn what not to be like.
Society does not bare your argument out AngelDust. One learns what one is taught. That is why women who have been abused as children and then abused again by their partners are told they must "break the cycle".

Often times a desire to "change" what one has personally experienced can improve the situation. It must be a conscious "daily" choice. Violence is taught.

Society does not bare your argument out AngelDust. One learns what one is taught. That is why women who have been abused as children and then abused again by their partners are told they must "break the cycle".

Often times a desire to "change" what one has personally experienced can improve the situation. It must be a conscious "daily" choice. Violence is taught.

Tis true. Angeldust is fighting a losing battle on this one. As DF states, it certainly is not an absolute rule (e.g. there are plenty of exceptions), but the reality is that parents with relationship problems tend to have children with relationship problems.

Perhaps the issue is gender related. Maybe men are more likely to react as Angeldust is saying, and women are more likely to continue a chain. I do know that witnessing my father's gross negligence at a very early age hasn't made me any more prone to repeating, instead, I, like AD said, think my dad is/was a fucking asshole and I don't want to repeat his mistake.

That might be true Napster, but both you and Angeldust seem to have a problem with women, although he more than you. I'm curious as to what your home lives were like as children.

Ooh, listen to the amateur psychologist, telling us what our problems are! Go ahead, tell us more!

Ooh, listen to the amateur psychologist, telling us what our problems are! Go ahead, tell us more!
Why would you react to an observation that could spawn intellectual discorse with humour? Another psychological observation, defense mechanism?

Wow! This is awesome! Anyone else wanna weigh in with their shrink spouting? All this free consulting around, who in their right mind would want to pay for one?

Ooh, listen to the amateur psychologist, telling us what our problems are! Go ahead, tell us more!
You said the point of this thread was to "provoke discussion". Posts like this hinder discussion.

Interesting discussion. Yakking on and on about Napster's and Angeldust's supposed women issues isn't interesting. It's a bunch of pseudo-psychological crap. I started this thread to talk about society, and the general human experience, not to get personal.

Interesting discussion. Yakking on and on about Napster's and Angeldust's supposed women issues isn't interesting. It's a bunch of pseudo-psychological crap. I started this thread to talk about society, and the general human experience, not to get personal.
I think it's relevant, personally, though I'd rather see general discussion on it than have people single others out.

Oh, it's relevant, but it's still pseudo-psychological crap.

Doesn't really matter WHY you started this discussion, Nappy. The way it turns out, it's a perfect example of how even a young girl can make a testosterone-filled man like yourself look like such a fool.

I say you need to buy yourself a blow-up doll and get some relief so you can start thinking with your other head.

What was it Angeldust called it? Oh yeah, a cum dumpster, right? But I don't mean his actual ex-girlfriend.

:)
SMW

Ouch, Nappy, defensive much? You've made it no secret that you aren't a big feminist. (Understatement.) I was just saying, there has to be a reason for that.

Ouch, Nappy, defensive much? You've made it no secret that you aren't a big feminist. (Understatement.) I was just saying, there has to be a reason for that.
Great posts, DF. Too bad he's so busy thinking up his response, he can't understand what you're saying.

Doesn't really matter WHY you started this discussion, Nappy. The way it turns out, it's a perfect example of how even a young girl can make a testosterone-filled man like yourself look like such a fool.

I say you need to buy yourself a blow-up doll and get some relief so you can start thinking with your other head.

What was it Angeldust called it? Oh yeah, a cum dumpster, right? But I don't mean his actual ex-girlfriend.

:)
SMW
Ahh, shut the fuck up. You wouldn't know a good man if he bit you on the tit. Where the fuck have you been huh? Discussion get a little over the head for you? Oh, I get it, you were just itching to exercise your "smart mouth." Too bad it can't keep up.

Ouch, Nappy, defensive much? You've made it no secret that you aren't a big feminist. (Understatement.) I was just saying, there has to be a reason for that.
If you don't have a good one, don't try to bring it into the discussion.

Well I don't know you! I was just saying that I was curious and I'd be interested in knowing what your childhood was like, since obviously most of our personalities and therefore our prejudices are formed in childhood.

Not the thread for it. Ask me in another thread, or IM. I'd be more than happy to tell you all that makes Nappy tick! :D

In other words, DF, Nappy is the only one Nappy is interested in hearing talk. All the rest of us just keep getting in his way.

(Nappy, you said to me "You wouldn't know a good man if he bit you on the tit." Who said anything about a 'good man?' My, my, but you do like to twist words around to suit yourself don't you, dear?)

Nappy's just pissy because I won't let him see me naked. Don't mind him. ;)

Nappy's just pissy because I won't let him see me naked. Don't mind him. ;)
I won't if you promise me we won't have to see HIM naked.

;)

In other words, DF, Nappy is the only one Nappy is interested in hearing talk. All the rest of us just keep getting in his way.

(Nappy, you said to me "You wouldn't know a good man if he bit you on the tit." Who said anything about a 'good man?' My, my, but you do like to twist words around to suit yourself don't you, dear?)
Is this all you have to contribute? I thought so.

Who said anything about a 'good man?'
I assumed that's what you were in the game for. Not one who would leave you after he's done used you up. Well, if it's that kind of man you're looking for, my number is...

I won't if you promise me we won't have to see HIM naked.

;)
Don't take her word for it. I promise.

I write posts for internet consumption. You would have my every post be a book. I am no author. Authors research shit. I just say it, and hope others have the knowledge to be able to refute or agree.

Yes, as I said, I noticed you don't do facts.

You apparently just like to tell people they are wrong and then run away from backing your claims up with facts because you "don't do facts".

Society does not bare your argument out AngelDust. One learns what one is taught. That is why women who have been abused as children and then abused again by their partners are told they must "break the cycle".

Often times a desire to "change" what one has personally experienced can improve the situation. It must be a conscious "daily" choice. Violence is taught.
wrong. violence is a choice. being an abuser is a choice.
if your mom or dad beat you that doesn't mean that you will turn out an abuser. if you had half a brain, you'd realize it's wrong, even a kid knows that. if they grow up and abuse, its their choice. not because they were taught it was the right thing to do.
if you are an adult and get abused, then you deserve it if you stay.
there are some women that like to get hit and stay in it.

Yes, as I said, I noticed you don't do facts.

You apparently just like to tell people they are wrong and then run away from backing your claims up with facts because you "don't do facts".
It's certainly better than your approach, whining and bitching whenever things don't go exactly your way, saying you're going to leave, and in general being a little crybaby.

I don't do facts because they're a waste of time. Why bother using a fact, when you can back up your statements with pure reason? It's like cranking up your tank to go pick the kids up from the pool.

Besides, every time someone wants to use a fact, you always get some other motherfucker decrying the source of it. It's a mess. You political junkies can keep your facts. I'll stick to reason. Why quote someone else what you could say yourself?

That might be true Napster, but both you and Angeldust seem to have a problem with women, although he more than you.
why the fuck do you think that?

why the fuck do you think that?
Well, with you, it's quite obvious that you have problems with women. Primarily, problems dealing with them as people.

wrong. violence is a choice. being an abuser is a choice.. Correct Angel...being an abuser is a choice. People can get past it.

if your mom or dad beat you that doesn't mean that you will turn out an abuser. No it doesn't necessarily mean you will turn out to be an abuser if you have been beaten... But the likelyhood of viewing violence as acceptable is far more likely. People that view violence as an acceptable way to problem solve are far more likely to abuse.
if you had half a brain, you'd realize it's wrong, even a kid knows that. It's not about whether or not that person is smart. It's about whether or not they can problem solve without responding violently.

if they grow up and abuse, its their choice. not because they were taught it was the right thing to do. Yes it is their choice in that they need to take responsibility for their actions and also take the resulting consequences for violating someone else's body or mind, or emotion.

if you are an adult and get abused, then you deserve it if you stay.
there are some women that like to get hit and stay in it No, that is blaming the victim. That is the excuse abusers use in order to justify their behaviour.

No person, male or female chooses to be bludgeoned by another. They just do not have the self esteem to realize they are worth more. Likewise the abuser does not have the self esteem to realize THEY are worth more. See, victim and abuser have the same problem. They just act out in different ways.

Well, with you, it's quite obvious that you have problems with women. Primarily, problems dealing with them as people.
i dont have any problem dealing with them as people. i have a problem when they try to act like a man and want to be treated like a woman.
i treat my girlfriend like a fucking princess, because she acts like a woman.

It's certainly better than your approach, whining and bitching whenever things don't go exactly your way, saying you're going to leave, and in general being a little crybaby.

I don't do facts because they're a waste of time. Why bother using a fact, when you can back up your statements with pure reason? It's like cranking up your tank to go pick the kids up from the pool.

Besides, every time someone wants to use a fact, you always get some other motherfucker decrying the source of it. It's a mess. You political junkies can keep your facts. I'll stick to reason. Why quote someone else what you could say yourself?
Nappy sometimes you are so full of shit it is humorous. You want everyone else to respond in the manner in which you have decided is correct.

You do personal attacks and say OTHERS are the one's who respond emotionally.
You don't do facts because they are a waste of time. Yeah, cause you would have to do some research to back up your crap. So hell attack the poster or better yet, be dismissive as though only YOU have the anwers. AND if called on that approach, soothe everyone by saying NO ONE has an answer. Which is sheer utter crap.

YOU think you use pure reason. Yeah, you reason, based on your emotion of the moment. Reason is taking something someone else says and understanding how they arrived at it and then going to the next step. Not belittling others. Which is becoming increasingly inaffective I might add.

You dismiss life experience as irrelevant Fine, but see how long people keep taking the time to reason out a response only to have you say bullshit and move on. Takes too long and the game becomes tiresome.

Guys, even when being ugly to each other, abide by an unwritten code. Their violence rarely escalates past a certain level. It's a brutal, but rational system, and enforces a pecking order that is easy to watch and avoid getting yourself involved in. When men fight, even in the worst situations one can envision, it's often more about respect than anything, and once the respect is established, a wary rapport results.

Dead on the nail there.

I've been in plenty of fights - no biting, balls are off limits, eye gouging and any other gross deformation is prohibited as well. However if you've ever seen a girl fight another girl, they grab the other girls' hair, bite anything that they can, rip the hair out if possible and kick the other girl when they are on the ground. Man those are fun to watch :thumbs:

Dead on the nail there.

I've been in plenty of fights - no biting, balls are off limits, eye gouging and any other gross deformation is prohibited as well. However if you've ever seen a girl fight another girl, they grab the other girls' hair, bite anything that they can, rip the hair out if possible and kick the other girl when they are on the ground. Man those are fun to watch :thumbs:

It blows my mind that those women even exist. They are on a different level than most would want to be. Period.

I've seen it happen to quite a few girls that I would never expect to see in a fight. It just took the right girl and the right insult to set them off

i dont have any problem dealing with them as people. i have a problem when they try to act like a man and want to be treated like a woman.
i treat my girlfriend like a fucking princess, because she acts like a woman.

You have a good point.

Respect is earned, not something you are born to deserve. If you act like a sexy, dumb blond, you'll be treated like one by every guy in the room. If you don't let ppl walk over you, and act like a confident strong woman, most likely you will be treated as such.

I've seen it happen to quite a few girls that I would never expect to see in a fight. It just took the right girl and the right insult to set them off

So WindWip, you are a rational, very bright young male ... what do you think of such women? Seriously, is it okay with you that a person lay their hands on another because of something said? I am curious.

Nappy sometimes you are so full of shit it is humorous. You want everyone else to respond in the manner in which you have decided is correct.
Of course I do. It's something you can't get away from. But if someone attacks me, I attack back. Conversations have an ebb and a flow, someone ebbs, I flow. Someone flows, I ebb. Sometimes I ebb when someone else ebbs just for the fun of it. But I always have the flow in mind.

You do personal attacks and say OTHERS are the one's who respond emotionally.
I do personal attacks for several reasons. First, often to illustrate a point. Second, to speak directly to the person. Like when I answered Vile's objection earlier. You noticed when I did that, I said he was intelligent and of high status. When DF did it, she said I have woman issues. You see the difference here? If someone fucks with me, I fuck right back.

You don't do facts because they are a waste of time. Yeah, cause you would have to do some research to back up your crap.
I do research all the time. I read countless internet documents, books, analyze movies and other assorted culture, chat with people about things, and other things. To illustrate where I get my ideas from is an impossibility. They come from everything I witness. I sit and think about them for hours, analyzing points back and forth. This is my fucking life. I do nothing else.

When I debate, I bring all of that stuff to the table. Because I don't give my life's story in every post, other's think it's due to laziness.

So hell attack the poster or better yet, be dismissive as though only YOU have the anwers. AND if called on that approach, soothe everyone by saying NO ONE has an answer. Which is sheer utter crap.
If you think you have an answer, by all means, reason one out. I will attack it, of course, but that's what the discussion is for. I want an answer, but that doesn't mean I will just accept any old answer without subjecting it to the harsh glare of my reason.

YOU think you use pure reason. Yeah, you reason, based on your emotion of the moment. Reason is taking something someone else says and understanding how they arrived at it and then going to the next step. Not belittling others. Which is becoming increasingly inaffective I might add.

Reason is using the mind in order to come to conclusions, as opposed to emotion. I never claimed to use pure reason. I said my arguments are based off of more reason than hers. That means I've thought it over more, as opposed to simply going with the first knee-jerk response. As I said earlier, reason is my entire life, my whole reason for being, so it's unlikely that anyone has thought over anything within my realm of understanding more than I have.

You dismiss life experience as irrelevant
I do not. Life experience is relevant to certain types of discussion. This isn't one of them.

Fine, but see how long people keep taking the time to reason out a response only to have you say bullshit and move on. Takes too long and the game becomes tiresome.
If they are relevant enough, I argue against them. I only dismiss them when I feel they're not only irrelevant, but harmful, issuing an attack that it would be remiss to ignore.

Sometimes, people are too just too hard-headed to continue. This happens when they cannot answer arguments relevantly, as SMW and dharmabum illustrates. That's when discussion stops, and I have to deal with the threats before moving on. Otherwise, they keep attacking irrelevantly, and the discussion gets thrown. So, cue flaming. Eventually they shut up, as I can yell longer and louder and more creatively than anyone else. Then, I salvage what's left of the discussion by reiterating points and hopefully discussion can continue at that point.

If not, who cares? I just have fun teasing them mercilessly. It's all pudding to me.

So WindWip, you are a rational, very bright young male ... what do you think of such women? Seriously, is it okay with you that a person lay their hands on another because of something said? I am curious.

I consider myself an outsider when it comes to girl fights. But in general and in certain instances, a word can deal as much damage as a physical blow.

Yes, I am okay with a person laying into another if it is deserved. A guy who completely oversteps his boundaries when approaching a woman is often slapped, and that is very often deserved.

So WindWip, you are a rational, very bright young male ... what do you think of such women? Seriously, is it okay with you that a person lay their hands on another because of something said? I am curious.
Such women? It's every woman. Hit the right spots, and even the most level-headed female will go into a frenzy.

If not, who cares? I just have fun teasing them mercilessly. It's all pudding to me.
Jasus, Mary, and Joseph, I will get you yet. Sounds reasonable. What's to argue with in this post?

Aaaaah, another day, another thread.

Back to the politics section.....

It blows my mind that those women even exist. They are on a different level than most would want to be. Period.
wrong again. there are a shitload of women out there like that. they go around looking for a fight. hen pecking order or some stupid shit. you must not get out much.
we have more problems with dumb bitchs fighting at the bar then we do men. i knocked a bitch out cold when she was face to face with my buddy and kneed him in the nuts because she wasn't allowed in. it didn't have to happen but she asked for it.

windwip. right on. cat fights are wild to watch.:D

Such women? It's every woman. Hit the right spots, and even the most level-headed female will go into a frenzy.

No Nap, seriously, I would never lower myself. I can not imagine being around the kind of women that would want to "have a go". I have never laid my hands upon another women and can not imagine anything that would make me do so either in my youth or now.
I seriously do not raise my voice...I don't get it. Truly. Okay, maybe do raise my voice but not too often. I get angry, yes, no question. But anger is merely about fear, or frustration... so it can be solved even if it just means leaving the situation.

wrong again. there are a shitload of women out there like that. they go around looking for a fight. hen pecking order or some stupid shit. you must not get out much.
we have more problems with dumb bitchs fighting at the bar then we do men. i knocked a bitch out cold when she was face to face with my buddy and kneed him in the nuts because she wasn't allowed in. it didn't have to happen but she asked for it.

windwip. right on. cat fights are wild to watch.:D
Now see Angel, in your line of work, I can see that you might encounter that kind of gal a tad more often than the general public. Like cops also. I can imagine they see their fair share of gutter scum. And I have heard that women who fight can be meaner, crueler and lower than guys... heard that from a few jail guards.

And no ;) I don't get out that much any more. Well not to bars anyway... a lounge maybe... but ya know... I am germaphobic in bars... ALL kinds of miserable little microbes.... :D

So these women, do they have the heavy makeup, low cut tops, bleached out look... or are they "kinda normal" looking. seriouly

I consider myself an outsider when it comes to girl fights. But in general and in certain instances, a word can deal as much damage as a physical blow.

Yes, I am okay with a person laying into another if it is deserved. A guy who completely oversteps his boundaries when approaching a woman is often slapped, and that is very often deserved.
Okay, fair enough... it's just a different world for me...so, trying to wrap my head around it....

I notice though, you said okay to girls arguing... and girls smacking a guy... I still can't see that but okay...

Such women? It's every woman. Hit the right spots, and even the most level-headed female will go into a frenzy.

Not me. I don't get violent. I just cry. About everything. My best friend slept with the guy I was in love with, and I wanted to hit her, but I didn't. In fact, we're still friends. (I know, it's stupid, but I'm glad she finally turned me off of him because he treated me like shit. Oh and gave us both an STD.)

It's certainly better than your approach, blah, blah, blah, saying you're going to leave, and blah, blah, blah.

I never said I am leaving.

Once again, facts have nothing to do with your insane rants.



I don't do facts because they're a waste of time.

Yeah, obviously.

Too bad you have just as much regard for logic and reason as you do facts.

Now see Angel, in your line of work, I can see that you might encounter that kind of gal a tad more often than the general public. Like cops also. I can imagine they see their fair share of gutter scum. And I have heard that women who fight can be meaner, crueler and lower than guys... heard that from a few jail guards.

And no ;) I don't get out that much any more. Well not to bars anyway... a lounge maybe... but ya know... I am germaphobic in bars... ALL kinds of miserable little microbes.... :D

So these women, do they have the heavy makeup, low cut tops, bleached out look... or are they "kinda normal" looking. seriouly
the guards are right, they can be vicious little cunts and use all the dirty tricks they can come up with. i learned fast not to trust any of them, they can turn on a dime.
they come in all shapes and sizes. the heavy plowed makeup ones are usualy butt ugly and couldn't get a date with a door knob.the ones with low cut shirts are usually the sluts or drama queens and not too bad looking but like scrathing and biting.
most the times we get shit from the high bred bitchs who think they are untouchable or fat ass ugly dyke whores who look like a guy and fight like one.
we have one regular who is a plain jane in jeans and dirty teeshirt who likes to go up to a man, any man, and punch him for no fucking reason. she gets her ass beat regularly. thats why i think some women like their asses kicked.

i would never hit a 10. 10's are babes, hot everywhere, and even if they act like cunts, usually calm down if you come between them and the other girl or restrain them.

guys are different. they pound it out then buy the loser a beer and forget about it. some times, like on new years eve, you get a guy that goes over the edge and we all pitch in and beat his ass until the cops show up.

The vast majority of women out there simply have no clue what it's like to live under the tyranny of testosterone. It's like holding a tiger by the tail, day in and day out.

heh. that is so fucking true. i like that.

Okay Angel, thanks for the different perspective. It's all new to me.

Not me. I don't get violent. I just cry. About everything. My best friend slept with the guy I was in love with, and I wanted to hit her, but I didn't. In fact, we're still friends. (I know, it's stupid, but I'm glad she finally turned me off of him because he treated me like shit. Oh and gave us both an STD.)
Well the bestfriend/boyfriend thing would have flipped me out. But then, like you I would have just decided both were lower than dirt and not worth the time or effort. Both did you a favour actually by revealing their truth. People always out themselves...doesn't take long.

I never said I am leaving.

Once again, facts have nothing to do with your insane rants.




Yeah, obviously.

Too bad you have just as much regard for logic and reason as you do facts.

I guess not. But in looking back I found this again:

Dharmabum, I doubt you could hold your pecker straight enough to get it all in the toilet, much less an interesting discussion with someone you disagree with.
As relevant now as it was before.

Napster, you are only making yourself look worse and worse.

I don't think he's making himself look bad. On the contrary, I admire his ability to argue both sides of the argument AND neither side, and yet still make sense. It's quite frustrating. ;)

Damn skippy. Now send me those pics!

I don't think he's making himself look bad. On the contrary, I admire his ability to argue both sides of the argument AND neither side, and yet still make sense. It's quite frustrating. ;)

If you think he makes sense you must share what you are smoking with me. :)

O M G what a picture dharma.... I LOVE that one too... I still like Bush and the shake hands one best though.

If you think he makes sense you must share what you are smoking with me. :)
It's more like the lack of a colossal stick in her ass.

Though that's not to say that never happens...

It's more like the lack of a colossal stick in her ass.

Though that's not to say that never happens...

Hey hey hey, how do you you know about that? ;)

I'm innocent, I swear!

I'm innocent, I swear!
Ahh nap, what do they always say, you heard it from "the horse's mouth"? hahahahah... ((EB bowling over, LOL)) Seriously though, ooopppsssss, that tickles!

Okay, ehre's wat I think. (nice read Nap. Pretty eloquent, too)

You have an awesome way of arguing both sides I don't know which side you're on, LOL LOL. At any rate, Man is a sexual, as much as he is a social/spriirtual/whatnots being. Yes we are imbued iwth instinctive needs, sex being one of them. But like hunger which can be sated when and where we choose, to, so can men and women take control over their sexual, uhm, urges. I think that is part of what makes su "rational" beings. Not saying it is easy. Okay, I know nothng first-hand. This is all second-hand, hand-me-down knowledge leaned from Sex-Ed class and observations and everyhtng that can be considered a plausible source of info.

There's too much emphasis on sex and sexuality these days which really overshadows the core values that sex was used to be built around. There used to be a time when it was only between two people united in marriage. There used to be a time when it was.... I can't find the words, sorry... but unlike now where it's viewed as uhm, like fave past time, not very long ago, sex was held in high esteem by society in general. I think that was before all hell broke loose.

so whether I'm prude or not or just plainly too archaic, I still think it's beutiful. And it can be beautiful and meaningful. if you want it to be.

Being male is typically a very badass thing to be, I would much rather be a man than I would a woman. The main advantage to being male is that you are naturally better at taking action and using strategy to achieve your ends. Women suffer from difficulties in this area due to their differences in brain architecture.

However, there is one huge disadvantage to being male and every male instinctively knows this. I call this disadvantage, the "Male problem." What the problem is is an unavoidable thought orientation towards sexual matters. No matter what you might be thinking of at the time, the chances are heavy that it's tied into some ulterior sexual goal. The drive to make money, to gain recognition, to learn and grow, all grow out of this problem. Nature coded this sexual nature into us with the testosterone hormone.

The vast majority of women out there simply have no clue what it's like to live under the tyranny of testosterone. It's like holding a tiger by the tail, day in and day out. For some men, with lower testosterone levels, the tyranny is much more benign, but it remains no less a tyranny. Even worse, in low testosterone men, it is much more difficult to find true satisfaction. The trade-off is more leeway in one's mental architecture.

High testosterone men are besieged by the hormone, often acting against their better judgment in order to satisfy the whims of their brutal master. They make life harder for everyone by forcing their brutish selves onto women and everyone else, yet are often helpless in the face of it. Biology has chosen them to propagate the species, but they receive little instruction on how to satisfy their baser natures. Humans are unique in that our intelligence and culture often gets in the way of our natural reproductive dance.

Few men in this climate of ultra-feminism are educated and taught in the methods of finding and attracting mates. Traditionally, this information was transmitted from man to man, down through the generations. A person's father, older brothers, uncles, friends, would all trade tips and strategies for wooing women. These strategies were affected by each regions cultural constructs and how women and men traditionally interact. Two things happened to this, and caused the majority of men to become disenfranchised and cut off their best and most opportune possibilities for attracting mates.

First, mass communication. All of a sudden, we were seeing small scale injustices to women projected onto the entire country, with a nationwide over-reaction to this "epidemic of misogyny." No trend was in fact taking place, it was just the construct of reporters and newspapers to create headlines in order to make money by manufacturing public hysteria.

Secondly, a mass empowerment movement to declare women as "equals," which, in more cases than not, happened to be superior. Human minds are not constructed to have equal relationships. Minds will inevitably manufacture a hierarchy where someone is on top, and the other is on bottom. It is yet another unavoidable tendency of the mind to fight for that top spot if it is unsure of the status. Even in the twenty-first century, we still have the same social instincts that dogs have.

Female minds happen to be better able to communicate on unspoken levels than men are. So, in a domestic conflict, women have a natural, and decisive advantage. All of a sudden, social upheaval was widespread, because women were usurping the man's place as top dog in the relationship. This was highly disorienting to the nation's women, because they had no existing knowledge base passed on to them from generation to generation like men did. Women began to thrust themselves into situations they had no preparation for, and were expecting the men to simply welcome the intrusion with open arms. The resulting schism further deteriorated sexual politics in this nation, and did serious damage to the nation's ability to ward of cultural insurgencies, further weakening it.

Now each sex is having to find their way around, completely in the dark, with centuries of passed down knowledge outdated or lost. Women still blame men for the "male problem," and will frustrate and make even worse that problem with their naturally fickle and emotional minds. Men themselves are now faced with the unenviable task of attacking the problem of finding love on the uncertain and nebulous grounds of the female mind, dealing with all of the shadowy and vicious adversaries conjured by the female thirst for romance.

Will men find their way once again? Will society be able to heal itself and properly train its progeny to negotiate the sexual battleground successfully? Your thoughts, please. I have a few ideas, but I will wait to share them for the time being.
Let me go ahead and re-quote this as an attempt to get this thing back on topic. And share those thoughts I've been holding in reserve.

See, I think maybe society can get through this. I've been reading and trying to follow something called the "Seduction Community." This is a group of males who band together in order to solve the problem men have with wooing men. Instead of defaulting back to the traditional role models, these disenfranchised men, (seriously, most of them are the worst geeks you can imagine) sit around and trade tips and tactics on getting women into bed.

The people running these communities are all known as "pick-up artists." These guys are insanely fucking effective at attracting women. These guys don't fuck around. If you're female, and you're around them, and they choose you, there's not a damn thing you can do to stop them. Their power is incredible.

So, the terribly disenfranchised men are now, all of a sudden, learning all these psychological tricks, the human mating game, and tactics for dealing with other alpha males. It's a fascinating study. Anyone interested should definitely pick up a copy of Neil Strauss's "The Game: Penetrating the Secret Society of Pick-Up Artists."

So now, men do not have to deal singly with their lot. They have resources now to attack and deal with the problem. The Seduction Community goes through revolution after revolution in their approach for picking up women, and their technique becomes gradually more refined.

This could well shift power back into the hands of men. Females, though they often act in strange, irrational ways, respond effectively to a proper approach. Our problem has been understanding and teaching that approach. Now a singular resource exists for the passing of it.

Now we have a plan for men to acquire the social advantages women naturally have. Now the intelligent man will have ways to compete in the jungle where more vicious, misogynistic alpha males rule like lions. Using the tools of social status and by showcasing their natural sexual ornamentation, the intelligent men can hold a woman's attraction long enough to land her in bed, and, if he desires it, keep her around.

So, it seems that men are finally fighting back. What I foresee now is the necessity for women to submit themselves to this treatment. I don't see this happening anytime soon. Women will forever distrust the seduction community even while it successfully gains converts from both men and disgusted women, who are tired of the same old, manipulative plays by well-meaning, but boring men.

The submission will happen quietly, and before you know it, the values of the seduction community, (ironically enough, trust, and honesty) will instill itself into women, who will stop the vicious back-biting that occurs to both themselves, and to the men in their life. Why? Simply because she won't be able to find a man that will put up with it, because the man in question will be able to simply find another mate. The average man can get sexually frustrated for years at a time, before he finally gets laid. It's the origin of the term, "getting lucky."

Men will finally be able to take their sexual destiny into their own hands, and this can only help gender relations in this country. Men will finally learn the natural interactions that men in other parts of the world naturally have, and enjoy the success with women they always wanted.

Will they go too far? Undoubtedly. Then it will be the woman's turn to take the power back. The back and forth will be much more subdued however, because the nation will have learned that vicious tricks just don't work anymore.

Sounds pretty good, men need to catch up to women as far as the seductive mind games go, but I don't like the idea of not being able to resist a man if he "chooses" me, considering that I'm in a committed relationship and cheating on my boyfriend would likely cause me to have a mental breakdown later because of the guilt. Not a pleasant though.

That is the biggest rub I can see coming from this. Men will use women as pawns in their own quest to be bigger, better and stronger. What will have to happen is a stepping up from women in not appreciating that crap. They will have to raise themselves above the seduction stuff and put those men in their place.

I'm not great at putting anyone in their place. I am quite submissive, and not just sexually.

If you're female, and you're around them, and they choose you, there's not a damn thing you can do to stop them. Their power is incredible.

And to think I voted for Sparky2 as the "Most Entertaining" poster.

Honestly Napster, you overcomplicate the matter. The "power" you describe here is called "charm". You should try it sometime, it's quite effective. :)

"Women look for ONE man to satisfy ALL her needs. Men look for ALL women to satisfy his ONE need."

Debate the details all you want, but that's the way it's always been... and probably always will be.

Far as I'm concerned, I say

VIVA LA DIFFERENCE!

:banana:

And to think I voted for Sparky2 as the "Most Entertaining" poster.

Honestly Napster, you overcomplicate the matter. The "power" you describe here is called "charm". You should try it sometime, it's quite effective. :)
Charm is effective. But it's a very hard skill to acquire. Charm is by no means an easy thing to do, unless you're a natural. I can be charming, from time to time. It can get me far, but it doesn't get me laid.

To get laid, I have to bring out my inner animal. That is the most effective thing I've ever done to get laid. But that's a very hard thing to do as well.

"Women look for ONE man to satisfy ALL her needs. Men look for ALL women to satisfy his ONE need."

Debate the details all you want, but that's the way it's always been... and probably always will be.

Far as I'm concerned, I say

VIVA LA DIFFERENCE!

:banana:
It's the way it's never been, and it's the way it'll never be. Men and women have the same needs. They simply use different approaches to go about getting them. Men use plans, reason, and money. Women use men, crying, and an entitlement complex.

"Men and women have the same needs."

What a stupid statement. If you believe that, why did you start this thread in the first place?

I'd rather say a stupid statement than be a fucking idiot. Which is what your picture is under in the dictionary.

But is it stupid? Women, in and of themselves, need men. Men, in and of themselves, need women. So, they need the exact same thing. Each other. Nothing more, nothing less.

Even homosexuals need the other sex, otherwise they wouldn't be able to reproduce.

I'd rather say a stupid statement than be a fucking idiot. Which is what your picture is under in the dictionary.

But is it stupid? Women, in and of themselves, need men. Men, in and of themselves, need women. So, they need the exact same thing. Each other. Nothing more, nothing less.

Even homosexuals need the other sex, otherwise they wouldn't be able to reproduce.
Nappy, you're getting way out there with your responses, dude. And why do you feel it's necessary to call me names?

For this one simple reason. You have not contributed meaningfully to this discussion. At all. So names will have to suffice, as I cannot deliver the backside of my hand over the internet.

As Evak is wont to say, "Backside of the hand, strong enough for a man, but made for a woman."

OK, fine. But keep in mind, I could say the same thing about YOU contributing anything meaningful (or even halfway intelligent) to this discussion either.... which wouldn't be so unusual except you're the one who started it!

Rave on, darlin. What you know about male/female relationships would fit into a gnat's ear. But then again, the more you talk, the more obvious that becomes!

Rave on, darlin. What you know about male/female relationships would fit into a gnat's ear. But then again, the more you talk, the more obvious that becomes!
That's fine sweetie! I have many more years in which to learn before I'm as old as you! You don't know anything either, and you've had over forty!

Whew, it's getting hot in here...

... I'm sure we'll see him on CNN someday. ...

Only one problem there - none of us knows what he looks like!

Only one problem there - none of us knows what he looks like!
LOL, maybe you don't, but I have this new X-vision monitor so I can see you, but you can't see me.

Um, might wanna brush those crumbs outta your moustache, dear.

;)
SMW

Crumbs?? Not in my moustache!

Crumbs?? Not in my moustache!
OMG... that's not your moustache I'm looking at!

Nevermind.

;)

OMG... that's not your moustache I'm looking at!

Nevermind.

;)
Oh GOD. I need to vomit now.

Borg, for pete's sake, pull up your pants... I can see your underwear!

*hides eyes*

Borg, for pete's sake, pull up your pants... I can see your underwear!

*hides eyes*

That's not his underwear!!!

That's not his underwear!!!
Aha! Sal's got the new X-vision monitor too!

*adjusts zoom feature*

Aha! Sal's got the new X-vision monitor too!

*adjusts zoom feature*
It was worth cost wasn't it? Now if I could just get my eyes to work without these coke-bottle lenses!!! They're so heavy on the nose!

As Evak is wont to say, "Backside of the hand, strong enough for a man, but made for a woman."
If you have the gall, say that to a woman's face. The reaction is great.

You can enforce your definition of the word "relationship," all you want, it doesn't take away from the human mind's unavoidable tendency to look for a hierarchy in their social dealings.

oh phooy, it is easy , it's my way or the highway LOL

very little intelligent life here... so sad... No one has addressed the original post and those that thought they have totally missed the point... my first and final post... got to leave well enought alone... ALFORUMS just doesn't make it...

very little intelligent life here... so sad... No one has addressed the original post and those that thought they have totally missed the point... my first and final post... got to leave well enought alone... ALFORUMS just doesn't make it...
Too bad you feel that way. I don't blame you. But Allforums does have its own share of intelligent individuals;they're just outnumbered by those who aren't. And sadly, those who aren't don't know when to zip it.

very little intelligent life here... so sad... No one has addressed the original post and those that thought they have totally missed the point... my first and final post... got to leave well enought alone... ALFORUMS just doesn't make it...

If you expect a thread to still be about the original post after 13 pages... well... Not gonna happen usually.

And I resent the fact that you thought I (as one of the people who addressed the original post) "missed the point". You don't know anyone here, so you don't have the same background about people. Napster, the original poster, is a friend of mine, and I happen to talk to him sometimes. My responses were directed towards exactly what he meant, if not what he said. Why do you assume that you got the point? Perhaps you missed it. Have you talked to Napster about what he meant? I doubt it.

That said, I'm not exactly disappointed that you haven't decided to become a regular poster here. Can't spell the word "enough" (and if that was a typo, even worse, because you should at least proofread your posts before you post them!), and obviously you don't care enough to even use proper capitalization.

very little intelligent life here... so sad... No one has addressed the original post and those that thought they have totally missed the point... my first and final post... got to leave well enought alone... ALFORUMS just doesn't make it...

Well, that's either your 6th post, or you didn't stop posting ;)

Chill guys, let's get back on track here.

What is the consensus thus far about the original issue here/ (Lest we be "chastised" again by one too intellectual to be here, LOL LOL)