Who do you think will win? Who do you want to win?

Yes, it is early. But OD's new sig prompted this question.

Who do I think will win? I have no idea, but I'd be willing to bet that it's not one of the big names. Who do I want to win? McCain.

Who do I want to win? McCain.
I shook his hand when I was in DC over the Summer.

I think it is far too early to call out a victory, for the record. I'm just curious to see other people's predictions and choices.

Who do I think will win? I have no idea, but I'd be willing to bet that it's not one of the big names. Who do I want to win? McCain.

Why do you like McCain? Just asking.

Barack Obama, if he runs in 2008, will most likely get my vote. And I think the Republicans should be scared if he decides to run. He has a likeability quality that most politicians lack these days.

In today’s world people seem to vote against a candidate, rather then for a candidate. However I am confident that Americans will vote for Obama because of his likeability factor. He reminds many people of John F. Kennedy and Ronald Regan in terms of likeability. He’s charming, hardworking and has a fairly clean record.

I believe Americans are sick of the politicians in Washington who are tied to corporate interests, Democrats and Republicans alike. They are looking for someone new. Barack Obama has been in the Senate not even a full term and does not old the baggage many senators carry. The Republicans had a field day with John Kerry’s long record, remember, the whole “flip flopper” fiasco? Although, Barack’s record will not be long enough to hold against him.

The one quality the Republicans will hold against Obama is his in-experience. But experience as we’ve seen, can be a candidates greatest downfall. Having to defend a long record, full of compromises, different times and mindsets is hard.

Also, George Bush only had a record of being Governor. His record, if anything, was smaller then Obama’s. Not to mention, George Bush had not even left the country prior to becoming President. Which suggests that if the Democrats respond to the “in-experience” attacks hard and fast, Barack Obama will look pretty good. He does not have a war record the Republicans can destroy nor a record in the senate the Republicans can manipulate. All they will have is that he is a Democrat, and as shown, the American people are starting to fall in-line with the Democrats.

Barack Obama conveys a strong message in his speeches and has a fairly squeaky clean record. If he does decide to run, I believe he will have a strong shot at winning.

Obama Pulls a Funny. Running for office?? Haha.: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=8WJsuM19-8c&eurl=

How could you not like the guy???

"Barack Osama? That terrist bastud is runnin' fo president? Shit. I better vote against."
http://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/en/thumb/a/a3/Osama-med.jpg/200px-Osama-med.jpg

Barack Hussein Obama... let's face it, he doesn't have much of a chance with a name like that.

Obama wouldn't win, and neither would Hilary. This country just isn't ready to elect a woman or a minority for president. As this will be the first presidential election I can vote in, you can bet I'll be much more interested in it... I'd say from what I've heard so far, McCain sounds like a good option.

This country just isn't ready to elect a woman or a minority for president.
Why?

I'd say from what I've heard so far, McCain sounds like a good option.
You must be pretty conservative then. Even though McCain is an honest man that I respect, he is fairly conservative on every issue and is very socially conservative.

I actually lean towards conservative on a lot of issues... As you can probably see from my responses to things in the politics threads.

And as for your question, I don't know why, I'm just pretty sure that neither a woman nor a black man would get the votes. People are afraid of change.

Not that I wouldn't love a black president, or a woman president, or a black woman president.

And as for your question, I don't know why, I'm just pretty sure that neither a woman nor a black man would get the votes. People are afraid of change.
Hmmmm. Well I don't see any evidence to support this. We elected our first Catholic President years ago. I think we have progressed enough to be OK with an African American President.

I dont think there's anything preventing an african american president... or a woman president...

The only thing that would stop either is their previous issues, mistakes, and their image.

Hmmmm. Well I don't see any evidence to support this. We elected our first Catholic President years ago. I think we have progressed enough to be OK with an African American President.
Do you think Condi Rice could win the South?

Do you think Condi Rice could win the South?
The deep south will vote, by-in-large, for a Republican over a Democrat any day of the week. Regardless of race. Barack Obama will have a shot at winning those mid-western states and northern-southern states (if that makes sense). But trying to win the south by putting in a white guy for the Democrats is hopefully IMO. So I don't see how putting in Obama, a black man, will stop the Democrats from winning in 2008.

I think the south will vote for a white male democrat before a black female Republican. And I'm from the south, although not the deep south, but I do have plenty of experience with deep southerners.

The deep south will vote, by-in-large, for a Republican over a Democrat any day of the week. Regardless of race. Barack Obama will have a shot at winning those mid-western states and northern-southern states (if that makes sense). But trying to win the south by putting in a white guy for the Democrats is hopefully IMO. So I don't see how putting in Obama, a black man, will stop the Democrats from winning in 2008.
I think if you put Condi against, say, Vilsack or Edwards, the Democrat would win in the Southern states.

I think people in the south would think that the fact that Condi is a woman was worse than that she's black.

If Americans elect anyone with the middle name Hussein or last name Obama I'm moving to Canada.

If Americans elect anyone with the middle name Hussein or last name Obama I'm moving to Canada.
I sincerely hope this is sarcasm.

Obama wouldn't win, and neither would Hilary. This country just isn't ready to elect a woman or a minority for president.

True.

The American electorate is FAR too pedestrian, white-bread-and-mayo, **"don't rock the boat, don't do anything "radical" or out of the ordinary"** philistine to EVER elect a black man or woman.

There could be a possibility that a white woman could someday win, but not Hillary. The Corporate owned, Corporate run, mainstream Media will wage the most concerted and intense campaign of character assassination against her that the world has ever witnessed.

By the time they're through, even the lesbian, environmentalist, ACLU members will view the e-ville *Hitlery* with disdain.

(I, once again, will likely vote for the candidate the Socialist Party USA selects at the National Convention in 2007. As always, Defense {over}spending is priority number one for me, and the Socialist Party USA is the only party consistently promising to cut it by 50%, for starters)

Who will win??

The person --their particular political party being of no consequence whatsoever-- who demonstrates the most eagerness to bend over and take it up the ass from the military/Industrial complex and the Corporate sector.

I think if you put Condi against, say, Vilsack or Edwards, the Democrat would win in the Southern states.
Isn't Edwards from the South?

To be honest, if the Republicans choose McCain or any white man as their choice in 2008, having a black man run won't affect anything. Because that whilte-male-Republican will win the South, no matter what.

Evan Bayh of Indiana is flirting with the idea of a run for the White House.

Colin Powell could have won, had he decided to run. Andrew Young may have had a real chance. Almost any female with the motivation other than the klinton bitch has a fair chance as well.

Why do you like McCain? Just asking.

Because he's a lot more fiscally conservative than the current bunch of idiots and, despite his attempts to make nice, isn't part of the religious right crowd. Plus he doesn't always follow the party line. All of which, unfortunately, is why he won't win the primary.

I'm just pretty sure that neither a woman nor a black man would get the votes.

I don't think that's true. Lots of people, conservative and otherwise, were clamoring for Colin Powell (before he ruined his reputation) to run despite the fact that pretty much no one knew what he stood for.

Of course if a woman or minority does run and loses, we'll have to endure endless accounts of how backwards the United States is.

I think Barbara Jordan could've won the presidency if she'd have been healthier and willing to run. She definitely had the respect of everyone who ever worked with her or heard her speak. Unfortunately, individuals like her are few and far between.

Because he's a lot more fiscally conservative than the current bunch of idiots and, despite his attempts to make nice, isn't part of the religious right crowd. Plus he doesn't always follow the party line. All of which, unfortunately, is why he won't win the primary.





I'm in complete agreement with you, Lionel. I hope McCain wins, only I think he has a better shot at the primary this time.

He has prepared for this elecition by switching to some pro-religious stances that only serve to increase his odds in the republican primary. But the reality is that he is a very independant-minded candidate which would be a welcome relief from the partisan straight-jacket candidates we see every year.

I'd also like to add that McCain has been consistent about following his words with actions, even if his actions come to naught. For instance, he campained about election reform (which is a HUGE underlying issue in our government, because corporations are effectively driving our country these days with campaign contributions), and even though he lost the primary he presented a campain reform bill before the Senate.

Also, watch the guy in an interview, he is well-spoken and is a very intelligent person.

I'm in complete agreement with you, Lionel. I hope McCain wins, only I think he has a better shot at the primary this time.

He has prepared for this elecition by switching to some pro-religious stances that only serve to increase his odds in the republican primary. But the reality is that he is a very independant-minded candidate which would be a welcome relief from the partisan straight-jacket candidates we see every year.

I'd also like to add that McCain has been consistent about following his words with actions, even if his actions come to naught. For instance, he campained about election reform (which is a HUGE underlying issue in our government, because corporations are effectively driving our country these days with campaign contributions), and even though he lost the primary he presented a campain reform bill before the Senate.

Also, watch the guy in an interview, he is well-spoken and is a very intelligent person.

I couldn't have said it better. I think I know where my vote's going.

McCain doesn't have a prayer of making it throught the primaries.

Ditto for Rudy G.

Mitt Romney is a mormon so count him out ...

Jeb is a Bush and the country will never allow another Bush to be president after this one.

Barrack already has the baggage piling up ... middle name, cocaine use, etc. He could only expand the electorate by 10% of 1% due to 90% of blacks already voting dem and that's not enough.

Hillary is unbeatable if she chooses to run. She would expand the electorate by a full 10% and that would provide a landslide. There simply is no way to stop her.

OTOH, should Hillary not run ... Gore would be my choice with Clark as VP.

I guess I wouldn't mind Gore in office... But I just don't like Hilary. I don't know what it is about her.

I'm liking Edwards. Liked him then and like him even more now. I hope he runs. :)

My first choice would be Feingold. He is honest, even more fiscally conservative than McCain, was a minority dissent to the Patriot Act because he felt some of it's provisions trampled on the Constitution, and voted against the War in Iraq. He was the cosponsor along with McCain of campaign finance reform, and has worked on that issue for years.
Unfortunately, he has decided not to run. Of those running, I have no favorite. All of them have baggage that I find troubling. I will undoubtedly wind up voting for someone, but probably less than happy about my choices.

I guess I wouldn't mind Gore in office... But I just don't like Hilary. I don't know what it is about her.
Shes a Clinton.

Well I like Bill.

Thats fair enough, but I wonder if America has forgiven him for his messing about,
a likeable rogue

I've forgiven him.... Actually I don't see why anyone cared in the first place.

I've forgiven him.... Actually I don't see why anyone cared in the first place.

Ditto. The Clinton witch-hunt was an absurd embarrassment to conservatives, but there is one bright spot - it gives liberals more power and their complaints more validity when considering impeachment of the current resident of the Oval Office.

After all, in the grand scheme of things, which is more dangerous to the citizenry? Which is more impeachment-worthy? Telling a lie about having an illicit affair or telling countless lies that led us into an unnecessary and illegal war which has left hundreds of thousands maimed and/or dead?

And let's don't forget the effects Mr. Bush's happy little war is having on stability in the Middle East as a whole.... this ill-conceived and horribly carried-out disaster is going to remain a disaster for decades to come. Hell, there might never be a solution to the mess Bush has created for the world.

All because Dubya had a hate-on for the guy who was mean to his daddy. :rolleyes:

Well I like Bill.

Lotsa girls like him.

And before I get jumped on ... I really don't care that he got laid in the Oval Office. He's not the first or last. I don't like him because he's a despicable human being. IMHO, his old lady is no better.

Obviously people like Obama. He was rated second in the likeability poll.

In the current poll, former New York City Mayor Rudolph Giuliani, a Republican, ranked first with a mean score of 64.2, followed by Democratic Sen. Barack Obama of Illinois, 58.8, and McCain, 57.7. All three are potential presidential candidates.
http://www.msnbc.msn.com/id/15924584/


I just don't see any strong evidence that would ruin Barack Obama.

I have no problem with Bill's sex life. I do have a problem with him using his authority to get head from a young intern, threatening those women who accused him of rape and inappropriate behavior and lying to a grand jury.


As for our next President. I hope it is, in order of preference, Rudy Giulianni, Mitt Romney, John McCain.

I'm in complete agreement with you, Lionel. I hope McCain wins, only I think he has a better shot at the primary this time.

He has prepared for this elecition by switching to some pro-religious stances that only serve to increase his odds in the republican primary.

?!?!?!

McCain has --"" prepared for this elecition by switching to some pro-religious stances""...........?!?!?!

ROTFL. Yeah.........that's putting it mildly.

The fact is that --and it is only increasing in vigor as time goes on-- McCain has whorishly sold his soul to the religiwacko faction of the Reichwing; he is now so deep in bed with Robertson and Falwell that I half way expect everyday to hear on the news that he was spotted fellating one of them behind the church.

He was commencement speaker at Falwell's Liberty University. In Ohio, he made a big show of backing GOP gubernatorial nominee Kenneth Blackwell, a hero of the Falwell-Robertson contingent.

He has even begun madly pandering to the anti-abortionist crowd, saying -- "I believe we would be better off by having Roe v. Wade return to the states" -- in effect endorsing the efforts to overturn the Supreme Court decision that legalized abortion.

McCain has ALSO said that he -- "would have signed the (South Dakota) legislation,"-- refering to the most stringent anti-abortion law put before voters in the US in a very long time.

John McCain is an intelligent person, and he let it slip during the last election what he REALLY thought about the asshole religious faction in this country, led by the likes of Falwell and Robertson. He CERTAINLY learned a costly lesson there and will never be caught making THAT mistake again.

As a Republican, McCain KNOWS that the best shot he'll ever have to sit in the White House comes at the price of getting in bed --heart and soul-- with the sactimonious religious faction (that deep down McCain truly despises nd distrusts, I believe) in this country. Sad to see anyone sell out to that degree. Truly sad.

?!?!?!

McCain has --"" prepared for this elecition by switching to some pro-religious stances""...........?!?!?!

ROTFL. Yeah.........that's putting it mildly.

The fact is that --and it is only increasing in vigor as time goes on-- McCain has whorishly sold his soul to the religiwacko faction of the Reichwing; he is now so deep in bed with Robertson and Falwell that I half way expect everyday to hear on the news that he was spotted fellating one of them behind the church.

He was commencement speaker at Falwell's Liberty University. In Ohio, he made a big show of backing GOP gubernatorial nominee Kenneth Blackwell, a hero of the Falwell-Robertson contingent.

He has even begun madly pandering to the anti-abortionist crowd, saying -- "I believe we would be better off by having Roe v. Wade return to the states" -- in effect endorsing the efforts to overturn the Supreme Court decision that legalized abortion.

McCain has ALSO said that he -- "would have signed the (South Dakota) legislation,"-- refering to the most stringent anti-abortion law put before voters in the US in a very long time.

John McCain is an intelligent person, and he let it slip during the last election what he REALLY thought about the asshole religious faction in this country, led by the likes of Falwell and Robertson. He CERTAINLY learned a costly lesson there and will never be caught making THAT mistake again.

As a Republican, McCain KNOWS that the best shot he'll ever have to sit in the White House comes at the price of getting in bed --heart and soul-- with the sactimonious religious faction (that deep down McCain truly despises nd distrusts, I believe) in this country. Sad to see anyone sell out to that degree. Truly sad.
All good points. McCain also took it up the ass from George Bush even though Bush and his buddies trashed McCain in the primaries. Honestly, McCain is a good guy. He is just far too conservative for most Americans these days. Hell, he is in support of sending more troops to Iraq. I don't think that Americans will fall for him.

?!?!?!

McCain has --"" prepared for this elecition by switching to some pro-religious stances""...........?!?!?!

ROTFL. Yeah.........that's putting it mildly.

The fact is that --and it is only increasing in vigor as time goes on-- McCain has whorishly sold his soul to the religiwacko faction of the Reichwing; he is now so deep in bed with Robertson and Falwell that I half way expect everyday to hear on the news that he was spotted fellating one of them behind the church.

He was commencement speaker at Falwell's Liberty University. In Ohio, he made a big show of backing GOP gubernatorial nominee Kenneth Blackwell, a hero of the Falwell-Robertson contingent.

He has even begun madly pandering to the anti-abortionist crowd, saying -- "I believe we would be better off by having Roe v. Wade return to the states" -- in effect endorsing the efforts to overturn the Supreme Court decision that legalized abortion.

McCain has ALSO said that he -- "would have signed the (South Dakota) legislation,"-- refering to the most stringent anti-abortion law put before voters in the US in a very long time.

John McCain is an intelligent person, and he let it slip during the last election what he REALLY thought about the asshole religious faction in this country, led by the likes of Falwell and Robertson. He CERTAINLY learned a costly lesson there and will never be caught making THAT mistake again.

As a Republican, McCain KNOWS that the best shot he'll ever have to sit in the White House comes at the price of getting in bed --heart and soul-- with the sactimonious religious faction (that deep down McCain truly despises nd distrusts, I believe) in this country. Sad to see anyone sell out to that degree. Truly sad.
You're quite right, FT, but all politicians do this. He has to pander to the Religious Right to win the primary in 2008. He'll then jog left in an attempt to win the general election. Just watch.

You're quite right, FT, but all politicians do this. He has to pander to the Religious Right to win the primary in 2008. He'll then jog left in an attempt to win the general election. Just watch.
I love how the Religious Right puts faith into these men to push their issues every election cycle, however, the only time these issues get much attention are election time. Obviously these men are trying to buy their vote and for them to not realize this is amazing to me.

Obviously these men are trying to buy their vote and for them to not realize this is amazing to me.
Of course. Every politician tries to buy as many votes as possible. That's how it works.

Barak has had an unprecedented forum since he has been elected. He has influence far outweighing his experience.
What has he done with any of it. Absolutely nothing.
Can anyone name one strong stand he has taken on anything, much less get one of his bills passed.

Tina Fey said it best on 30 Rock: "He's using my White Guilt, which should only be used for good--like tipping well, and supporting Barak Obama."

This is a link to another thread about Obama. Fifty Four posts and nobody gave a reason to vote for him.
http://allforums.net/showthread.php?t=21840&highlight=obama

You're quite right, FT, but all politicians do this.

True.

It is very depressing, however, to see the men who will rule this society and direct it come under the influence of and the guidance of the religionist/superstitionist faction; people that I regard as being mentally imbalanced.

He has to pander to the Religious Right to win the primary in 2008. He'll then jog left in an attempt to win the general election. Just watch.

I agree.

But .....

a) it will be a very SLIGHT move to "the left", and

b) when people in this country use the term "the left", it signifies only ---**those people who are merely 80% to 90% conservative, instead of 100% conservative**

___________________________________________

As McCain put it to the Washington Post,----- "My record is the same on all issues, which is that of a conservative Republican. Not a liberal Republican. Not a moderate Republican."

No, I'm pretty sure I use the term "the left" to mean anyone more liberal than I am, and "the right" to mean anyone more conservative than I am... I think it's a pretty good system since I tend to be quite moderate.

Barak has had an unprecedented forum since he has been elected. He has influence far outweighing his experience.
What has he done with any of it. Absolutely nothing.
Can anyone name one strong stand he has taken on anything, much less get one of his bills passed.

Tina Fey said it best on 30 Rock: "He's using my White Guilt, which should only be used for good--like tipping well, and supporting Barak Obama."

This is a link to another thread about Obama. Fifty Four posts and nobody gave a reason to vote for him.
http://allforums.net/showthread.php?t=21840&highlight=obama

True ... and add in he is not trusted by the DNC. He still hasn't proven he won't be another Zell Miller or Joe Lieberman.

Can anyone name one strong stand (Obama) has taken on anything, much less get one of his bills passed.

Well, certainly, he has nothing on his meager resume to rival the immense catalogue of political acccomplishments that Gee Dubbya possessed when the Supreme Court selected him to be pResident....

:lolhit:

______________________________________________

I'm basically a media creation. I've never done anything. I've worked for my dad. I worked in the oil business." - George W. Bush, 1989

I'm liking Edwards. Liked him then and like him even more now. I hope he runs. :)

Rumor ... the next WSJ poll will show Edwards beating McCain 43-41.

True ... and add in he is not trusted by the DNC. He still hasn't proven he won't be another Zell Miller or Joe Lieberman.Funny how neither of them over got the folk hero "maverick" status with which the press annointed McCain.
Right wing media for ya'.

No, I'm pretty sure I use the term "the left" to mean ............

Yes......but I was speaking about America collectively--

...it is so far to the right on the issues that face us as a society that to be "left", in political terms, is simply to be somewhat less than totally, unreservedly conservative.

Bill Clinton is an prime example; in his leadership as president he was moderate to somewhat conservative politically, yet the unwashed masses were convinced to view him as some sort of extreme, far out "leftwinger".

Barak has had an unprecedented forum since he has been elected. He has influence far outweighing his experience.
What has he done with any of it. Absolutely nothing.
Can anyone name one strong stand he has taken on anything, much less get one of his bills passed.

Honestly, it has been hard for any Democrat to do much or even bother to try to do much of anything since the Republicans would have most likely shot down any proposed idea the Democrats came up with. Not to mention the Republicans didn't even bother to discuss certain bills with the Democrats.

But here are a few things he has done...

In April 2005, Obama sponsored his first Senate bill, the "Higher Education Opportunity through Pell Grant Expansion Act", S. 697.[42] Entered in fulfillment of a campaign promise to help needy students pay their college tuitions, the bill proposed increasing the maximum amount of Pell Grant awards to $5,100.[43] Provision for Pell Grant awards was later incorporated into the "Deficit Reduction Act", S. 1932, signed by President George W. Bush on February 8, 2006.[44]

Obama co-sponsored the "Secure America and Orderly Immigration Act", S. 1033, introduced by Sen. John McCain (R-AZ) on May 12, 2005.[45] Obama also supported a later revision, the "Comprehensive Immigration Reform Act", S. 2611, passed by the Senate on May 25, 2006.[46]

But the real question is, what made Bush so experienced in the 2000 election? Everyone talks about Barack being so "in-experienced" however no one used that against Bush. Bush had only been a state Governor. A bad one at that. At least Barak was in his State's Congress and has been in the United State's Congress.

Bush mostly ran on the issues he was for and against and being the son of a former President. And that sure seemed OK by the Republicans.

How many of you armchair quarterbacks even got out and voted in the last Presidential elections?

And how many of you will go to the polls in 2008?

More importantly perhaps, how many of you would rather run your mouths here on a web-forum, but will avoid the polls because:

a. You think your vote won't count in the grand scheme of things, since the elections are all rigged anyway.

b. You are afraid the voting machine will collect data from the sweat in your fingerprints, and transmit it to the evil, insidious Government Mainframe in Washington, DC?

or
c. You'd rather just complain bitterly about your elected leadership, rather than actually step up to the plate and do something that might make a difference?

Just curious.
You don't have to answer, this was just a rhetorical question.
Food for thought, in a manner of speaking.

I used to like McCain but he turned into just another partisan hack.

Right now I favor either Edwards or Obama, but who knows...

This will be the first election I can vote in, and I certainly will!

This will be the first election I can vote in, and I certainly will!

Good for you! Congrats!
:banana:

I guess I wouldn't mind Gore in office.

I dunno. He responded to losing the election (or having it stolen - whatever . . .) by disappearing for a while and then coming back with a beard and an extra 50 pounds. Not quite the intestinal fortitude that I'm looking for in a President. (This was not a pro-Bush post, so please no comparisons to the current idiot in the White House. Thank you.)

I dunno. He responded to losing the election (or having it stolen - whatever . . .) by disappearing for a while and then coming back with a beard and an extra 50 pounds. Not quite the intestinal fortitude that I'm looking for in a President. (This was not a pro-Bush post, so please no comparisons to the current idiot in the White House. Thank you.)
When you lose an election for the most powerful position on Earth, you're bound to get depressed.

1. But here are a few things he has done...
2. But the real question is, [U][I][COLOR="Red"]what made Bush so experienced in the 2000 election.1. And next you're going to explain to me the significance of these bills? The bold and innovative ideas contained within?
Sorry if I expect too much of him, but this is someone you think should be president.

2. When a comparison is made between Bush and Clinton aren't you one of those who complains that we should defend Bush without bringing up Clinton?
Don't be a hypocrite.

I guess I wouldn't mind Gore in office... But I just don't like Hilary. I don't know what it is about her.

I agree. I like Gore now more than I did in 2000.
I would probobly vote for him this time.

I don't like Hillary because of her Hawkish turn, which is purely politcial in my opinion.

Yay, someone agrees with me.

I don't like Hillary because of her Hawkish turn, which is purely politcial in my opinion.She's no hawk. She supported the war when it was the politically expedient thing to do.
If 75% of the country supported rape so would she.

She's no hawk. She supported the war when it was the politically expedient thing to do.
If 75% of the country supported rape so would she.

Isn't that basicly what I just said?

1. And next you're going to explain to me the significance of these bills? The bold and innovative ideas contained within?
Sorry if I expect too much of him, but this is someone you think should be president.
I gave you the bills he has pushed. Obviously he has done something. Your claim was that he hasn't done much of anything. However, he has already gotten his first bill he created passed with a Republican President and a Republican Congress.

What I like about him is that he works with people and compromises.

2. When a comparison is made between Bush and Clinton aren't you one of those who complains that we should defend Bush without bringing up Clinton? Don't be a hypocrite.
It depends on the comparison. Honestly, I'm pulling an observation. Bush had less experience then Obama. Period. So to watch Republicans bitch about Obama's lack of experience I have to wonder. I mean, if you could, why did your party not question Bush's lack of experience in 2000?

Anybody but another klinton ... or obi-wama.

I'd love another Clinton. However, people hate her too much.

Isn't that basicly what I just said?I would say closer to exactly what you just said.

1. What I like about him is that he works with people and compromises.
2. Bush had less experience then Obama. Period.
1. So does my plumber and many other people I know. You know we're talking about President of the United States here, right.
Let's pretend for a moment that those are stellar qualifications. You are impressed with his two year track record?

2. My point wasn't about the comparison between their experience but about your selective use of comparisons.

But since you brought it up......
Two terms as a governor is more relevant to a presidency than two terms as a Senator (forget about two years).
That's why former governors are more likely to be elected president than former senators.
Unless I'm mistaken, JFK was the last Senator elected and since then there have been four governors (I think).

Unless I'm mistaken, JFK was the last Senator elected and since then there have been four governors.

True.

But only one who was a borderline mental retardate with a poor grasp of the English language.

I don't like Hillary because of her Hawkish turn.....

It is more than just a "hawkish turn".

It is de rigueur for all the good little Corporate toadies in Washington (iow, lackeys like Hillary) to faithfully back the ConservaFascist's agenda of forever war.

Two terms as a governor is more relevant to a presidency than two terms as a Senator (forget about two years).
That's why former governors are more likely to be elected president than former senators.
I'm not sure I'd agree with this. Senators are less likely to be elected President mainly because they have a long voting record which their opponent can use quite handily to make (often true) accusations. Governors, who do not have such records, are not nearly as susceptible.

EDIT: Brooks, if you mean sitting Senator, you're right, JFK was the last. Johnson and Nixon were also Senators at some point during their careers.

1. Senators are less likely to be elected President mainly because they have a long voting record... Governors, who do not have such records, are not nearly as susceptible.
2. .... Johnson and Nixon were also Senators at some point during their careers.1. They don't have that type of voting record, but they have a record where they are more singularly responsible for the bad things that may have happened while governor, much like a president.
A good executive and a good legislator have very different skills and personality types. I think that's what sets them apart in the presidential-electability comparison.

2. Yes but they were also former vice-presidents.

One real possibility is Bill Richardson, Governor of New Mexico. He also has foreign policy experience, as a Presidential Envoy. He could carry considerable portions of the southwest, usually a Republican area. What would be most interesting would be a divided convention in both parties, with no candidate having a majority. Then watch the deal making.

One real possibility is Bill Richardson, Governor of New Mexico.Sounds good on paper.
Looks bad on television.
I hate the fact that that matters, but it does.

I used to like McCain but he turned into just another partisan hack.



What is your basis for saying this? Recent major initiatives include a compromising Immigration bill proposal, which was rejected by Republicans (and we remain without any major action on immigration). He is the great compromiser of today's politics, which unfortunately has cost him the Republican primary in the past.

You're calling a guy who received a bronze star, silver star, purple heart, and distinguished flying cross a "hack." He was tortured for 5 and a half years, still cannot lift his arms above his head (aides have to comb his hair for him), and was defiant to the end.

There may be a few points where I disagree with him, but he's a genuine man of action, and I think he is the best candidate for president.

Here's a John McCain quote ...

"Do you know why Chelsea Clinton is so ugly? Because Janet Reno is her father." -- John McCain

Real classy guy -- picking on a teenager. He should hook-up with Foley.

Thanks for sharing that quote, now I am more likely to vote for him.

Thanks for sharing that quote, now I am more likely to vote for him.

I'll take that to read you aren't a parent.

You're calling a guy who received a bronze star, silver star, purple heart, and distinguished flying cross a "hack." Well, we call another Vietnam hero (Duke Cunningham) a criminal. Hero status doesn't insulate anyone from their actions.

And besides, McCain is a hack.

I voted for Rudy Giuliani every time he ran for mayor of NYC. He did a lot of good for the city, he cut waste, rebuilt Times Square, and he told the gun lobby to shove it. OTOH he irritated a lot of people with his big mouth and bigger ego. Before 9/11 his approval rating was only around 50%. He has some skeletons in his closet as a business partner of Kerik. I think if Rudy could deliver NY State to the GOP the party would have to consider him.

I voted for Rudy Giuliani every time he ran for mayor of NYC. He did a lot of good for the city, he cut waste, rebuilt Times Square, and he told the gun lobby to shove it. OTOH he irritated a lot of people with his big mouth and bigger ego. Before 9/11 his approval rating was only around 50%. He has some skeletons in his closet as a business partner of Kerik. I think if Rudy could deliver NY State to the GOP the party would have to consider him.

I hear that a lot from my NY friends fluff but the reality is ...

He's the same Rudy G. that was photographed wearing drag and lived with 2 gays and had a live-in lover while he was married. No way will he pass muster with the fundies. He's a one-trick pony from 9/11 fame when he took over for a president that never showed up to lead the people. Other than that what has he ever done?

And wasn't it on his watch that the cops shoved the bataan up the dude's rear end and shot another dude on his stoop just for reaching for his wallet?

I honestly think we should do a big "American Idol" esque search for the person who wants to be President the least. Then force him at gunpoint to take the oath.

The country would be much better off, because if someone wants power, you can be damn sure that they're not the sort of person you want in power.

That's actually a very good point EH.

He's the same Rudy G. that was photographed wearing drag and lived with 2 gays and had a live-in lover while he was married No way will he pass muster with the fundies.
I'd vote for someone who dresses in drag, because that is pure bravery.
He's a one-trick pony from 9/11 fame when he took over for a president that never showed up to lead the people. Other than that what has he ever done?
He did a lot of good for the city, reducing crime and such. Besides, Bush led our country through 9/11. He made speeches on a seemingly daily basis and did what he could. Please elaborate on how he "never showed up" to lead the nation.

I can hardly read your posts, Evak... I just can't stop looking at that ridiculous avatar. :D

I can hardly read your posts, Evak... I just can't stop looking at that ridiculous avatar. :D
I used it when I first got here, and I figure it is time to put the mezmerizing stormtrooper back into action.

I'd vote for someone who dresses in drag, because that is pure bravery.

The point is whether the fundies will vote for him.


Please elaborate on how he "never showed up" to lead the nation.

Sure he showed up but what was it? Like 3 days after it happened.

AWOL once -- AWOL always ... ROTF

Is that Che in your avatar?

Is that Che in your avatar?

Yes -- it's the bust-statue-monument in the town of La Higuera, Bolivia where Che was captured and executed.

Che is awesome.

Didja know that he was part Irish? I learned that the other day...

Didja know that he was part Irish? I learned that the other day...

Yes, Che's grandmother (on his father's side) was a Lynch.

Yep... His great-grandfather went from Ireland to the Basque region of Spain.

McCain is a hack.

Can anyone actually back this statement up with any evidence, or is it all pure slander?

Dop, I agree that the Chelsea comment was wrong, but he apologized for it and has visibly been in politics for 20 years, and that's the worst thing you have on him. If people can forgive Dubya for snorting cocaine and Clinton for banging every woman in sight other than his wife, than surely you can overlook a derogitory political jab.

McCain is the only politician I see who consistently doesn't just talk about doing something, he actually does something about it.

Can anyone actually back this statement up with any evidence, or is it all pure slander?

I agree with Dop that the Chelsea comment was wrong, but he apologized for it and has visibly been in politics for 20 years, and that's the worst thing you have on him.

McCain is the only politician I see who consistently doesn't just talk about doing something, he actually does something about it.

Well - there was the case of him being one of the Keating-5 where he took over 100K in bribe money from Keating during the Lincoln savings scandal. I guess you could also ding him for his flip-flop on the gun issues ... one day he's fer and the next day he's agin'. That's not important to me but it's muy important to the right wingers that live and breathe for their guns.

Also, he took a beating from the rabid southern conservatives during the '00 primaries and never fought back. That doesn't show much backbone and, for whatever reason, it turned-off many moderates and Reagon democrats who he will never get back.

I suppose we will also be hearing how he caved-in during his POW years and may have even given the enemy sensitive information.

Maybe toss in he will be 72 and that he is still technically fighting cancer.

Sedona-John will have his work cut out for him.

What is your basis for saying this?

His Insane suggestion that we escalate in Iraq by a measily 20,000 troops. That is ridiculous on so many levels. The government's own study said that even if we went in with 400,000 troops we might not be able to secure the country, so taking 140,000 to 160,000 is only a joke. A Sad Joke.
If he were serious, he would be talking about sending another 200,000 troops to Iraq and doing whatever is necessary in order to get them, including asking the American people to sacrifice instead of just asking them to go shopping and actually talking to other countries, including ones that don't always agree with us or even like us.


You're calling a guy who received a bronze star, silver star, purple heart, and distinguished flying cross a "hack." He was tortured for 5 and a half years, still cannot lift his arms above his head (aides have to comb his hair for him), and was defiant to the end.

John O'Neil's "Vietnam Vets Against McCain" said MUCH worse things about McCain during the 2000 primaries. They called him "Broken" and said he had been "Brainwashed" during his captivity. They called him "The Manchurian Cantidate".

I heard no outrage from the right then.
You think that won't come up again?

By the way that is the same Republican group that went on to smear John Kerry as the "Vietnam Vets Against Kerry".

Didja know that he was part Irish? I learned that the other day...
Yeah - he was also part fuckhead, too. And I learned that many years ago.

My dad was lucky enough to be flying over La Higuera in his C-130 when that piece of human offal was executed. Too bad he didn't get any pictures....

His Insane suggestion that we escalate in Iraq by a measily 20,000 troops. That is ridiculous on so many levels. The government's own study said that even if we went in with 400,000 troops we might not be able to secure the country, so taking 140,000 to 160,000 is only a joke. A Sad Joke.



The "troop surge" idea is not solely his idea. In fact, I think they're actually going to execute that plan to try put a temporary stop to escalating violence.

I don't think it's a great idea myself, but that's a very minor thing compared to everything else McCain stands for.

Before 9/11 his approval rating was only around 50%. Everyone forgets that. I think the same behaviors and shortcomings that brought that about will have the same effect on any presidential aspirations.