As I was driving back to my office today, I head a report by the great US patriot Peter Jennings on how the 3rd ID would not be coming home from Iraq as planned, but would stay. This was followed by interviews of soldiers saying how disillusioned they were, how upset and angry they were at the Governement of the US, and even had one say Rumsfeld should resign. This is the biggest, most blatent piece of propaganda I have ever heard!!!!! I was in the Army, and I was deployed to combat zones on 2 occasions, and I can tell you, we heard that we were about to get shipped home constantly, only to have it never happen. Any vet from any war could say the same thing, the Amy is full of rumors about this kind of thing. But, now all of a sudden it is big news!! the Bush administration lied to the troops!!! They said they were heading home and made them stay!! GASP!!!! I dont remember this ever being an issue when I was in Somalia or haiti, ready to go home then being denied over and over again, but that was during the CLinton administration, so the media decided to overlook that. what a freaking joke. The midia is full of it. Clinto takes over haiti in regime change fo rno good reason, attacks I raq with 400 Tomohawk missles and no protestors or media storys decry this as anything, but GW does something and every single thing is scrutinzed until we are ready to puke iff we hear it again. When was the last time any good news came out of IRaq? I cant even remeber. To watch the news you would think all our troops were hunkered down fighing off waves of Iraqis 24/7. I am so pissed I am ready to go to NY and kick Peter Jennings wussy canadian ass.

here is a link to the story. Its funny, when I was deployed to war zones, tired, hopeless, demoralized and pissed off, and grew tired of the Army telling me I was going home next week (it was always next week), i dont remember any media types asking me my 'feelings", of course, like I said, that was under Clinton, the medias sacred cow.

story (http://abcnews.go.com/sections/wnt/World/iraq030716_2ndBrigade.html)

Soldiers bitch. Salesmen lie. The Pope is Catholic. Wild bears do shit in the woods.
All these are facts of life.
Don't let the media's hype of troops complaining be a story worth remembering. Yeah, it's not fun playing soldier anywhere, especially when there's bad guys shooting at you. I spent 3 years of my life in a combat zone, so I do know a little of what those soldiers are going through. A soldier's life is filled with more flavors of bullshit than most of you folks can imagine, or would tolerate in your pampered lives.

When I was in they had a great saying " you no longer can do what you want, THE ARMY OWNS YOUR A** NOW". I always thought that was great, especially in todays Army all "volunteers". If they don't like that type of life then don't sign on the dotted line in triplicate. The problem is alot of people join the military so they can get the GI bill, but they also forget that if this country needs them then they are going to be called on.

Originally posted by Travh20
When was the last time any good news came out of IRaq? I cant even remeber.

If the things don't go well, blame the media instead of Bush ! Sure you're right.

Just try to remember the amazing pro-military propaganda before the war ? Do you really believe the media are anti-Bush ?

In fact just by reading the other posts in this thread it is obvious that the bad morale depicted amongst the GIs in Irak is perfectly understandable.

Your blatant anti-American sentiments have not been missed.

Oh please not this again ! I am not anti-american.
I just believe than it is irrelevant to blame the media when things do not go the way you would like them to go, and that the support to Bush and the war in the american media was strong enough to make this "liberal media plot" look ridiculous.

But what would you know Astra.....seeing as how you are on the outside looking in. How would you know of morale for the U.S. troops or for any U.S. citizen for that matter?

I do not pretend to know anythong about the morale of GIs. But some people whith more experience than me did here :

Originally posted by es347fan
Yeah, it's not fun playing soldier anywhere, especially when there's bad guys shooting at you. I spent 3 years of my life in a combat zone, so I do know a little of what those soldiers are going through.

Originally posted by Travh20
I was deployed to war zones, tired, hopeless, demoralized and pissed off, and grew tired of the Army telling me I was going home next week (it was always next week)


And, yes, I know they do not refer to the present situation in Irak, but about that sitaution, I think the report mentioned in the first post is quite clear.

I just wanted to point out that it is childish to blame the media when they report things you do not like.

My feelings about the war, the army or the USA have nothing to do with that.

Even your beloved frog troops complain about conditions around them, wherever they are stationed, might be the brie isn't aged properly, or the wine isn't chilled to their liking.
You say you're not anti-American, but IMO, you sure as hell present like you are.

ES 347
1- Sorry if I offended you as an ex-soldier.
My intention has never been to say that american troops are sissys or anything like that. Of course I am aware that any soldier from any nation would complain in such condition.
I have nothing against the poor guys who have been sent in Irak.

2- I have always made clear that I opposed this war. Does that make me anti-american ? No. I still like american people and think we share many values.

3- I thought the main subject of this thread was the way american media are talking about the war. I disagree with Travh's feeling that they suddenly became biased.
I often look at american news on cable TV, and I do not feel any liberal bias on CNN ! From what I have heard or read, Fox TV has been supporting the war and the hawkish view since the beginning.

Sure you have access to much more american information sources than I do, so maybe you do not agree. If so, please tell me why.

I think this forum is a way of exchanging ideas and information. Sure, we do not agree on many things, but tabbing me as "anti-american" because I am critical is just as irrelevant as me tabbing you as "fascist" (which i would never do).

Originally posted by astrapol2
ES 347
1- Sorry if I offended you as an ex-soldier.
My intention has never been to say that american troops are sissys or anything like that. Of course I am aware that any soldier from any nation would complain in such condition.
I have nothing against the poor guys who have been sent in Irak.

2- I have always made clear that I opposed this war. Does that make me anti-american ? No. I still like american people and think we share many values.

3- I thought the main subject of this thread was the way american media are talking about the war. I disagree with Travh's feeling that they suddenly became biased.
I often look at american news on cable TV, and I do not feel any liberal bias on CNN ! From what I have heard or read, Fox TV has been supporting the war and the hawkish view since the beginning.


Sure you have access to much more american information sources than I do, so maybe you do not agree. If so, please tell me why.

I think this forum is a way of exchanging ideas and information. Sure, we do not agree on many things, but tabbing me as "anti-american" because I am critical is just as irrelevant as me tabbing you as "fascist" (which i would never do).


This post was never meant to say the media is suddenly biased, they have been biased the entire time. THis is just to point out that fact. IF you read it, you would see that we are saying troops in every war have complained and wanterd to go home, and the fact that just now this is news and being put on major news channels as something new shows there is a bias. If you read you would see that I pointed out that during any of Clintons little adventures Petter Jenning never felt the need to point this out, even though we felt exactly the same as the troops in Iraq feel, probably worse becasue all clintons adventures were political moves that had no direct effect on anything involving the United States, unlike Iraq where we destroyed the regime that hated the united states and openly defied us and the UN and sponsored terrorists in the mid east.

The American media as a whole definitely has a liberal bias, but I don't think it's intentional. It's just that the type of Americans that go into journalism tend to be pretty liberal. I think they frequently see it as a way to have a "positive" (by their definition) impact on things. And it's a more subtle bias than the conservative bias Fox broadcasts. Fox makes a choice to be conservative whereas the other networks tend to be liberal because they just don't understand the other point of view, which is what happens when you don't leave the confines of the east and west coasts.

Lionel brings excellent material to the table. The media ask plenty of questions, yet for all their supposed insight, offer nothing in terms of solutions.

I dunno, I'm not sure it's the job of the media to provide answers, just ask questions. The issue I think is what questions you ask, and I'm pretty convinced that they go easier on the liberal point of view than on the conservative.

Lionel I quite agree with you. The job of media is to give honest and accurate information, and to ask the good question. it can also be a place for debate. But it is the job of those in charge of politics and economy to give the answers.

Might I add that many journalists go to schools with a liberalist philosophy, like Cal Berkeley and the Ivies, where the majority of students and professors are liberal. It is easy to fit in with the crowd, isn't it?

Conservatism is viewed as a mental disease in the eyes of many high ranking liberals (there was even a study published from Berkeley and Stanford that attempts to label conservatism as an illness). I have also heard that liberal people usually travel alot, are well-read, and are more sophisticated and conservatives are generally simpletons who like to see things in black and white and live bland, tasteless lives. If that is true, why do we have people like William F. Buckley?

Anyway, did we see many "questions" being asked when the US bombed Baghdad and Belgrade? Or when we pulled out of Rawanda? All we're talking about here is a fair and balanced viewpoint of this conflict. It's not like I support it, but a day-by-day, hour-by-hour scrutinization is not necessary, just like it wasn't necessary during Desert One, Iraq I, and Somalia.

Besides, you never saw Edward R. Murrow swayed by popular opinion.



"Upward and Onward"