http://stpeteforpeace.org/what.kills.americans.website.graphic11.gif

Excellent point!

3000 die and we spend an extra $500 Billion of tax payer money - oh and we also kill almost another 3000 kids in the process and cripple 20,000 more

10,000,000 die and we spend an extra......drum roll......$0

Fascinating when laid out like that!

Really a good point. Once again numbers kill whatever the politicians have to say.

And most is diet related when you break it down...heart, cancer and diabetes combined ...

10,000,000 die and we spend an extra......drum roll......$0
You act as if there is no money or effort going into those other problems.

Exactly.
That is a very nice graphic, DrewM, and quite thought-provoking.

I would only argue two points;

1. It's not true that your Government is spending $0 on those other problems. Fact is, the Federal and State Governments expends a lot of your tax dollars attempting to mitigate many of those ills.

2. I suspect that many on this forum would bristle at the notion of the US Government playing a heavy hand in solving the other 11 leading causes of death on your graphic there (many of which are not an issue for the Government to magically solve, but are rather issues of personal accountability and personal responsibility).

Some examples:

* Drunk driving. The only way the Government could SOLVE the problem is to outlaw the sales of all alcoholic beverages. Driving drunk is a matter of personal responsibility and personal accountability. You can't legislate that, you can only punish the offenders when they are caught screwing up and driving drunk. Either that, or take away all the alcohol.

* Homicide. Some people just plain lose their mind and kill others. Some homies just need to bust a cap in some other homies ass. People are flawed, some more flawed than others. If anybody on this forum can figure out a way to solve the problem of humans killing humans by throwing tax dollars at it, I would sure like to hear it.

* Obesity. You want the Government to pass a law requiring all citizens to submit to monthly height-weight testing, and to maintain their weight within certain Government-approved standards? Shit, that doesn't even work in the US Armed Forces, I can't imagine you're going to arrive at a practicable solution for the civilian populace.

* Smoking. Some of us would love to see tobacco outlawed. (And marijuana legalized, then regulated & taxed like any other commodity.) Both are pipe-dreams (no pun intended), and I don't suspect that we'll ever see either event occur in our lifetime. Smoking is an issue of personal accountability and personal responsibility, and again, if somebody has a solution that can be solved by throwing Government tax dollars at it, I am all ears.

* Suicide and Medical Mistakes. Here’s my solution. Every health-care professional who kills a patient through some act of malpractice should be forced to kill themselves.
Problem solved.

I can do this all day. Do you want me to go on, or shall I just go kill myself?
;)

Hey!.........that was a really good post, Sparky.

Congrats.

Thank you sir.

I didn't say the government was spending $0 on the issues other than terrorism. I referenced spending in terms of extra spending. The $500 billion was extra spending. This is money that could have been spent elsewhere to great effect. I have no doubt that that $500 billion could have at a minimum reduced the 10 million by 10% - ie 1 million over 5 years, at a minimum = 250K lives saved per year.

The numbers for homicide, suicide, lack of health care on their own eclipse the level of deaths from terrorism.

Sparky you are right there is not a clear route to mitigate these issues directly, although the route is no less unclear than invading iraq as a part "solution" to 9/11, but a route that makes perfect sense is education. Educated people live longer, make better choices. $500 billion spent on improving education would have a dramatic impact on the country, in fact $500 billion spent over 20 years not 5 years would still have a massive impact in many many areas.

When it comes to making sensible decisions - it's clear the US is incapable of making sensible decisions & if that chart says anything it shows how polically motivated decision making is, either that or we really are incredibly stupid.

All good points Sparky, and the only one I would argue against is second-hand smoke. I would outlaw it in public areas.

I would also like to point out 3 of the issues up there on the list that could be addressed with more funding - medical malpractice, cancer, and also deaths by diabetes could be decreased with more consulting and better instruments.


The amount of money spent on fighting terrorism is hugely disproportional to the damage that it has caused in comparison to the damage caused by the other issues I mentioned. Now, the obvious rebuttal is that with terrorism we are being attacked and we should spend more money to prevent being attacked again (that boils down to lives saved per dollar spent), also we would spend money on fighting terrorism to dissuade people from trying it (again, dollars spent vs lives saved), and finally we want to preserve our image in the world. Please fill in the gaps if I'm missing anything there.

I believe our world image has gone down as a result of our obsessive war on terror, and that many many more lives would have been saved had we spent half the money we spent on terror on medical training and expanding our medical facilities.

Puts this war on terror in perspective, Thanks

According to that chart, over 90% of these deaths can be dramatically reduced by the individual's health habits.

If someone dies due to a medical mistake while in the hospital for heart disease, did stpeteforpeace.org put that death in two different categories?

When a very old person dies it is often called heart failure. Sometimes they count these deaths in the heart disease category. A lot of that big category may actually be old age.


Of everything on that list, the government should take a little more responsibility in the terrorism, medical mistakes, homicide and drunk driving since those are the causes over which individuals have very little control.

I noticed that you didn't mention smoking.

I noticed that you didn't mention smoking.That's a choice.

Second hand smoke is not a choice, and that is a big killer

Second hand smoke is not a choice, and that is a big killer

Personally I think "second hand smoke" is nothing but a bunch of crap. There's more "second hand smoke" coming from car exhausts just walking down the street every day than the occasional breath of somebody elses smoke that is diluted 1000 times.

I know that when I walk behind a smoker, I can sure taste the crap coming out of those things. Also, doctors can almost always tell if you live with a smoker when they do a checkup on you. There is a big difference between someone who lives with a smoker and someone who doesn't.

Also, I think that the smoke from a cig is far worse than that from a car; now I could be wrong, but I don't have the time to look it up at the moment. I will later.

I just want to know which is it???

Is it okay to let people do whatever they want? Or do we "control them" like all the FT's of the board fear so much and make all this go away?

Its not like we can outlaw fast food, alcohol, guns, weapons, smoking... that would be too tight-assed.. right?

So while thats a VERY interesting graph... how can you blame the gov't when you would probably be the first person to bitch if they outlawed all the stuff causing all these deaths?

Whether or not second hand smoke is as dangerous as is claimed, or whether or not the law is right, the reason the laws came to be is because of the arrogance and self-centeredness of smokers who couldn't be courteous when asked for a little consideration.

I just want to know which is it???

Is it okay to let people do whatever they want? Or do we "control them" like all the FT's of the board fear so much and make all this go away?

Its not like we can outlaw fast food, alcohol, guns, weapons, smoking... that would be too tight-assed.. right?

So while thats a VERY interesting graph... how can you blame the gov't when you would probably be the first person to bitch if they outlawed all the stuff causing all these deaths?
It's not about blaming the government FOR the problem. Cancer, heart, diabetes, obesity could ALL easily be lessened. You were a trainer and you know this to be 100% correct. All of those categories will have a huge percentage of people who make bad lifestyle choices with regard to food, drink and exercise. In many cases those choices are made due to ignorance. It's not about blaming. It's about assigning the billions of dollars availabe to where they will do the most good to ensure lifestyle quality.

Smoking is banned in all public places in Canada. It is nice to go to a restaurant/bar that does not have blue air.

what if a fat drunk guy with no health care dies while eating a hamburger in a smokey restaurant? what category does he fall into?

what if a fat drunk guy with no health care dies while eating a hamburger in a smokey restaurant? what category does he fall into?


Typical US citizen.

LOL, maybe we deserve to die

what if a fat drunk guy with no health care dies while eating a hamburger in a smokey restaurant? what category does he fall into?

Ignorant and happy?

The flaw in the original post is that terrorism's primary effect is on the economy and security, rather than on average lifespan.