"It's funny how people switch when they get rich
Spend it all on chicks
Hundred-thousand dollar car for what
These bitches
Ten million dollar crib for what
These bitches
Five thousand dollar suits for what
These bitches
Should of known but they only out for your riches"

Akon - Show Out

It's a fascinating thing, what people do in order to earn love. They can go through all the trouble to get rich and famous, and in many cases still be lonely. What do you think it is that is keeping people from finding each other?

My opinion, (you knew it was coming) is that people are not honest enough with themselves in deciding what it is they want from other people. People want different things at different points in their life, and the society's definition of what is right and what is wrong keeps them from pursuing their true heart's desires.

Many women want the kind of romantic love they see in the movies, and they project this entire thought structure onto the men in their life and expect things out of them that they cannot live up to.

The vast majority of men all want the same thing, a nice enough looking woman who isn't insane. Sadly for them, the entire psychology pressed down onto them by society have turned them into weak-willed pansies who, when they see a woman they like, ball up into little pebbles of self-consciousness, handing all their natural power over to women, who, not knowing what to do with this power, use it to further turn men into useless pussies.

This dichotomy forces men to find something to differentiate themselves from the herd of other men doing exactly the same thing they are, wussing out at the first glance of a beautiful woman. But getting rich, or just having money rarely solves the problem. Either guys "get lucky," and find themselves a girlfriend that ends up being the defining aspect of their life, even after the relationship fades, or remain single. Getting rich only attracts the type of women who look for that sort of thing, the gold-diggers.

The high value women constantly in demand by men will consistantly spurn the advances of weak men. And because these women get approached so often, it messes with their minds and many get to be quite weird as a result.

Most of the average women who arent in constant pursuit of by men have been psychologically groomed by society to sit and wait for the right man to just come in out of the blue and sweep them away. That approach just gets all the losers.

A solution for society? I don't have one. But if you are sick and tired of not dating, you really should decide exactly what it is you want, then be open-minded about what you need to do to get it.

Neil Young - A Man Needs A Maid
(from the 1972 album Harvest)

My life is changing
in so many ways
I don't know who
to trust anymore
There's a shadow running
thru my days
Like a beggar going
from door to door.

I was thinking that
maybe I'd get a maid
Find a place nearby
for her to stay.
Just someone
to keep my house clean,
Fix my meals and go away.

A maid. A man needs a maid.
A maid.

It's hard to make that change
When life and love
turns strange.
And old.

To give a love,
you gotta live a love.
To live a love,
you gotta be "part of"
'When will I see you again'?

A while ago somewhere
I don't know when
I was watching
a movie with a friend.
I fell in love with the actress.
She was playing a part
that I could understand.
A maid.

Man needs a maid.
A maid.
man needs a maid.

'When will I see you again'?

I sit here alone,
in this dark place.
My mind has gone crazy,
my heart's in a race.

I sit here alone,
with my thoughts gone mad.
I feel I'm insane,
my life's turned bad.

I sit here alone,
as people pass by.
I scream to be heard,
but can't and cry.

I sit here alone,
I'm all messed up.
I have no control,
It's time to give up.

I sit here alone,
I can't hold on.
I'm losing my grasp,
My sanity's gone.

I sit here alone,
My freedom is here,
The struggle is over,
I won't shed a tear.

I sit here alone,
I shall never see light.
I have only darkness,
In my own world tonight.

I didn't really mean for this to become an "Everybody post the lyrics to their favorite song" thread, but whatever works, I guess.

I thought I would throw my 2 cents in, but not in verse. I cant speak for the younger generation, I can only speak for myself.

I agree with you about the women that riches attracts, Totally whacked out 10's. But it's the less than tens that make up the bulk of the women available. Granted, most in this group have some severe emotional baggage, whether it be from an ex looking for greener pastures, or from uncertanities about themselves. Occassionally, the emotional scars run so deep they turn into man-bashers.

One thing they don't do is sit at home, waiting for mister right to knock on the door. But they dont go out looking for him either. They hide behind their imaginary wall, hoping to find someone capable of breaking through it and showing them the love they once had. Here's where we, as men, have them classified as insane. It takes too much effort on our part to break through the wall, and when we do, the woman can barely remember what it takes on their part to show the kind of affection men need to survive. Instead, they treat us like a posession, not a real person.

Sorry about this, I kinda went off on a tangent and missed the topic. So much for my soapbox.

Many times many of the "less then 10's" HAVE emotional baggage because of the way YOU MEN have treated us in the first place!!

It is VERY hard to try to trust and open up again. Once burned, twice shy.

I don't think you got what he was saying. The 10s have tons of baggage, and usually for very good reason. The less than 10s don't but but up nigh-impenetrable walls.

Feelings....woah, woah, woah, feelings...........

Like and respect your own self first and foremost. The rest will come naturally.

i'm a loner

Wow so jaded in your views. Not all ladies are high maintenance or gold diggers. Granted there are a lot out there that are but you could be looking for this image of the perfect partner. Hell no one is perfect and you might just be missing the most important thing that could have walked into your life but you can't see past that image.

I do have to agree with some of what Mackenzie says speaking from a girls point of view. We all get hurt and build walls it is human nature to not want to be hurt.

I had some one ask me how I could date on the Internet and why I wasn't looking at the guys close to home. Well I have looked at the guys closed to home and have met a lot but as with all relationships and human interaction it failed. That is not a bad thing for me just a fact. Why not because I was closed off it was just a compatibility thing. You see the signs and move on. For me I have met a lot of really cool guys on the Internet and formed some great friendships. With a few they turned into some great things, but the thing about the Internet and pursuing a relationship long distance in a lot of cases is it forces you to get to know the person really well. All you have is conversation there is no sex to get in the way of it. You also need to be completely honest. It is easy to get caught up in a lie and not be truthful. Again what happens if this does turn into the right person and you have lied well you have just killed whatever you thought you might have had with that person. You can tell if it might work and yes it can work and even lead to a more long term relationship. Trust and honesty are key.

Relationships are give and take and also a lot of compassion. If you the pursuer have baggage it is really hard to let go and not share that baggage with someone new. You never want a relationship build on trying to fix the other person and sometimes it is easy to fall into that trap. You feel you can save them. They need to save themselves and then try and find what they are looking for. Communication is also key if you can't articulate what you want or need no one is a mind reader.:confused:

My idea of the perfect date with my guy is to get a good movie, curl up on the couch and cuddle. Don't get me wrong I like to go out dancing and go to dinner, but for me make my guy dinner is more fun then going to some fancy restaurant that costs an arm and a leg and your first born child. You just have to keep looking and one day that right one will come into your life, but until that happens you may have to play the dating game. Yes that game sucks and some play it all to well.
OK enough of my rant on the subject and this is only my opinion from how I have lived. Right now I am with an amazing guy and he is very compassionate and understanding. You have to meet and greet a lot of people to find that right one. Love at first sight hummmmm not to sure about that. I feel that is more lust at first sight.

I know you are not knocking this whole relationship thing just entising a debate about it and how we all see what we want and do what we need. When it comes to human nature it is a hard thing to mess with. People and society are groomed to judge and be judged. Yes we all have our idea of the perfect guy or gal, but is it real. Real is all you have rich or poor. There is not enough time to play this dumb games and lots do play the games and mess with peoples heads because they can.

It's a fascinating thing, what people do in order to earn love. They can go through all the trouble to get rich and famous, and in many cases still be lonely. What do you think it is that is keeping people from finding each other? Before you can find a partner who will satisfy you you must first learn who you are and what you want in a partner. That involves brutal honesty with yourself about personal strengths and weaknesses. In my opinion most people are too weak or perhaps afraid to seek out and admit their faults and then work on changing them. Too much effort...and too scary.

My opinion, (you knew it was coming) is that people are not honest enough with themselves in deciding what it is they want from other people. People want different things at different points in their life, and the society's definition of what is right and what is wrong keeps them from pursuing their true heart's desires.
Society is very hazy in their definition of right and wrong other than; you must find a partner, marry them and reproduce. Otherwise you will not be happy. Society does not fill in the gaps. Nor does anyone ever tell you that the way that you have been raised and whether or not you have been taught to respect yourself will determine how your partner will treat you. It also does not tell you that happiness is a byproduct of many, many things. It is not some feeling or state that can be reached and then kept.
Many women want the kind of romantic love they see in the movies, and they project this entire thought structure onto the men in their life and expect things out of them that they cannot live up to.
And they lived happily ever after. Fairy tales and psycologically twisted bullshit. They (men and women) project it onto each other because they can not attain the bliss themselves because it does not exist. We teach people how to treat us. If we teach them to abuse us, certain twisted individuals will be more than happy to supply the pain. Love is a behavior not a feeling...period.
The vast majority of men all want the same thing, a nice enough looking woman who isn't insane. Sadly for them, the entire psychology pressed down onto them by society have turned them into weak-willed pansies who, when they see a woman they like, ball up into little pebbles of self-consciousness, handing all their natural power over to women, who, not knowing what to do with this power, use it to further turn men into useless pussies. I don't know what the vast majority of men want but if they are only seeking a nice enough looking woman, who isn't insane they are vastly underestimating themselves and women and the kind of love and fulfillment one can have when one finds that special someone who makes life worth experiencing in every capacity, makes you push yourself to the limit because they are your net, accepts you in all of your terrible beauty and knows you are the best thing that has ever happened to them.

This dichotomy forces men to find something to differentiate themselves from the herd of other men doing exactly the same thing they are, wussing out at the first glance of a beautiful woman. But getting rich, or just having money rarely solves the problem. Either guys "get lucky," and find themselves a girlfriend that ends up being the defining aspect of their life, even after the relationship fades, or remain single. Getting rich only attracts the type of women who look for that sort of thing, the gold-diggers.
Basically you get what you ARE... Scary but true. If you are respectful of SELF and others you get someone respectful of self and others. If you are a materialistic prick, who is controlling and self hating...well...that's what you will draw.


The high value women constantly in demand by men will consistantly spurn the advances of weak men. And because these women get approached so often, it messes with their minds and many get to be quite weird as a result.
High value women are not the ones constantly in demand by men. Barbie doll women are, and they get men with overblown egos who are Ken dolls. High value women, find high value men. Not rich materially but rich in spirit, and love. They would not settle for less for they value themselves and know they deserve to be well treated. They do not attract weak men because weak men want someone they can control and high value women can not be controlled. They easily walk from a relationship when not happy because they are self-sustaining.

Most of the average women who arent in constant pursuit of by men have been psychologically groomed by society to sit and wait for the right man to just come in out of the blue and sweep them away. That approach just gets all the losers.
We draw to ourselves what we need to grow.

A solution for society? I don't have one. Teach your children that they have value because "they are". Teach them respect for self and others. Teach them about equality of sex and race. Teach them independence and problem solving. Teach them to give for the sake of giving for in giving does one receive from oneself. Teach them that love is an action not a feeling. LOVE THEM.

But if you are sick and tired of not dating, you really should decide exactly what it is you want, then be open-minded about what you need to do to get it. If you are sick and tired of not dating you really should examine the way you present yourself to others. You should analyze what you have to give to another human being and make yourself partner worthy.

I lived on Oahu for a few years following my divorce.

My best buddy and I were both (coincidentally) recently-divorced, and were both thoroughly enjoying the single life. We live just a few miles apart, and were nearly contant companions, in between our misadventures with the available women there on the North Shore. We surfed, we swam and dived the local waters, we tom-catted around, we skinny-dipped with packs of naked local girls, we drank beers with good friends, and somewhere in there we went to work and earned our pay.

Steve and I were fairly close in age, and shared the same viewpoint on many topics. After a few months on the island though, there came to be a clearly-discernable difference in our personalities;
I seemed to be searching for love and companionship, and Steve was content to live the loose and adventurous life, enjoying the frequent sexual daliances with various young women, cutting them loose, and then going about his solitary routines.

"Don't you get lonely?" I asked. I had a live-in girlfriend, and was happily in love at the time. "Waking up by yourself all the time?"

"I'm pretty content with my own company," Steve would usually reply.
"I can spend days by myself, working on projects here in the garage." He would turn the wrench on some automotive engine component, or check the tire pressure on his motorcycle tires, and then shrug. "I'm not like you. I don't really want to know about all that love stuff."

And so after awhile, we came to accept those differences between us, and were happy with the common ground that we had found; camaradarie, friendship, surfing, and the kinship of our chosen military careers. (We were both Army aviators there on Oahu, and both our fathers had been military types.)


I never questioned the differences between Steve and I. I knew that, deep down in my bones, I would never survive for very long without female companionship. My own wife (I eventually married the girl that I lived-with, on and off, during my long and disreputable years on the islands) has confirmed this notion for me. "Spark, you will never live alone. I know that you love me with all your heart. But if I get hit by a bus tomorrow, you'll be living with some aging school-teacher within six months. I can practically guarantee it."

And she's right, of course. I will nod, and then take a thoughtfull sip off of my beer. And then I will invariably change the subject.

Napster, buddy.
Don't make it about women and what they might want.
Come to grips with who you really are, and what YOU want.
The opinions of me, or Sal, or anybody else on this forum don't matter one iota in the grand scheme of things.
If you love the solitary life, and are living it, then celebrate it, young sir.

If however you are living the solitary life, are unhappy with it, and feel the need for some sort of validation (or God forbid, some sort of misogynistic vindication or rationalization), then please go fishing somewhere else.

Given a choice between advising a young man go the lonely, he-man woman-hating route, (versus the loving, committed, thoroughly-engaged route), I will advocate love, commitment, cohabitation and marriage every time.

But that's just me. I'm just a romantic, I guess.
:rolleyes:

I don't think you got what he was saying. The 10s have tons of baggage, and usually for very good reason. The less than 10s don't but but up nigh-impenetrable walls.

Yes, I got what he was saying. Did you even read my post?

I enjoy my solitude.

Yes, MacKenzie, I read your post. Both lines of it. It indicated a disconnect between what you had wrote and what the poster you were replying to was saying. Instead of whining uselessly, "Did you even read my post?", try to understand what I was getting at, and elaborate more on what you meant, and the reasoning behind it. Lots of meaning is lost in translation on these boards, and few people can write with the clarity that I can.

Men look for different things out of women than women look for out of men. That much is obvious. What is hard to fully appreciate is why.

I'm not too terribly interested in finding and keeping love. I want to understand it. Advice is of very little worth to me. I want to know exactly what it is women want out of men. I also want to know exactly what it is men want out of women. For the most part, the differences between the two sexes is not so much physical and emotional. It's cognitive. Men think and feel exactly the same way as women do. Their brains processes them differently, and that is what differentiates the sexes.

The simplest way to put it would be that men are rational, women are not. Men like to isolate and confront individual problems, solve them and move on, women look at the whole picture. Men want few things out of women, but those few things are the things that women want to keep in reserve for when she feels that the "whole picture" is right in her head. Then she gives them, gingerly, ready to snatch them away whenever the "whole picture" starts to drift.

Women often have their entire life planned out in front of their eyes, what kind of man they want, how many kids they're going to have, what kind of house she wants to live in, so on and so forth. Men tend to focus on the task at hand, letting fate choose the direction of the greater wind.

The difference between women's thought and men's thought is exceedingly subtle. But that subtle difference in cognitive processing gets multiplied countless times over the entire spectrum of human experience, forging a nigh-impenetrable wall that neither man nor woman can scale. All they can do is throw notes at each other over the cruel barrier.

My perspective is this. Men today are getting the shaft. Men are lost and without direction in this country. It was a necessary step, feminism was, but feminism needs to take back stage for awhile and let masculinism catch up. Females need to quit hating on men for being men. They need to quit isolating them from their peers after marriage and trying to fix and "domesticate" them. Men need to be left alone to be men. They need to be allowed to take the helm once more, and the females must find a new submissiveness to masculinity that allows men to reach their full growth as males yet disabuses them of the notion that they can use coercion to attain their goals.

Women are going to have to give up their hard won equality for awhile. If they give it up eagerly, as a gift to men, than humanity as a whole has much to gain from the shattering of that barrier. If they hem and haw, continuing to bust the balls of men, take advantage of their insecurities, and worst of all, put up impenetrable walls to interaction, than it will be a long, hard, battle of attrition, and sexual relations may just regress to worse than it was before feminism.

Women just aren't prepared yet to wear the mantle of power. Their heady, emotional states interfere with the necessity for poise, expediency and professionalism. Women have much to give to the world, but the exercising of power and control in bureaucracies is a job far better suited to men.

Only once masculinity has been healed in America, something that can only happen with feminism's blessing, we can march towards a path of true equality and understanding between the two sexes. Men will not have to be frustrated at every turn by callous, uncompromising women, and women will not have to search endlessly for a man they think well enough of to marry.

The strange thing is, I think once the barrier is dissolved, the need for traditional instruments like marriage will dissipate as well. Why tie another person into a lifelong contract when you are capable of communicating and planning with them exactly what you both want out of life? Surely marriage-like ceremonies will still exist, but they won't be the huge force in society that they currently are.

Quite the thoughtful editorial piece, Napsterbator.

Unfortunately you are applying a purely cognitive approach (and a sublimely Spock-like logical mind-set) to a problem that was millions of years in the making.

Societies change, cultures change, peoples evolve. But you can't fight generations upon generations of the basic genetic, Biology 101, mating & nesting instinct.

What do women want out of men, and what do men want out of women?
It's foolish to generalize of course, but in the long run it comes down to this:
* Women want a mate for life, and someone who is chemically, hormonally, and biologically suited to give her healthy offspring.
* Men want to mate also. Frequently. With as many partners as can be made available.

In OUR society anyway, the young man's prowess at mating with multiple partners is the subject of much back-slapping and atta-boys at the high school and collegiate level. But at some point a grown man will mature, and he will find that he too desires fidelity & monogamy, and willingly submits to marriage and the whole business of child-rearing.

Men today are not getting the shaft. Men today are getting precisely what they are willing to work to achieve. (Or they are getting precisely what they are willing to put up with.) Masculinity is relative, and respect is earned, not given.

Love is a powerful thing. True love is rare, and rarer yet is the couple who manages to truly mate for life. The fact that approximately 41% of all marriages end in divorce is not an indictment of the institution of marriage, it's simply a reflection of your own observation of, "Why tie another person into a lifelong contract when you are incapable of communicating and planning with them exactly what you both want out of life?"

The fact is, nobody is capable of communicating on exactly the same wave-length. But if you love each other enough, and are grown-up enough to handle that love (and roll with the inevitable punches), you can make it work, and be truly happy together.

My own failed relationships and at least one failed marriage have not caused me to be jaded toward women. Those experiences, rather, taught me that it is quite common to find yourself tied up with the wrong women, and to celebrate and appreciate the joy that is finally finding the right woman!!
:cool:

Lots of meaning is lost in translation on these boards, and few people can write with the clarity that I can.
Aaaaaaaaaaaaah, Nap see any irony here. The fact that you had to rewrite the post in order to redirect things is well...ya get my meaning.

The difference between men and women is biologically based. Go back to your basic introductory Anthropology. Seriously. It's about survival and reproduction. Even women's ability to have multiple orgasms is about survival. Women bare the young. They can not hunt for meat (required protein) they can only do gathering...the brain needs protein (survival). Women nest, (love babies, protect them, feed them, keep them safe while in the cave or crossing the savanna ... men hunt, bring home the bacon and have sex.

As we have evolved we still have carry over survival instincts. Things get messy.

I thought that's what I just said.

(Except for that bit about multiple orgasms.)
Women can have orgasms?
:eek: :confused:

I thought that's what I just said.

(Except for that bit about multiple orgasms.)
Women can have orgasms?
:eek: :confused:
:lolhit: sorry I missed yours as it was on page 2...
I had to add that part... just to arouse some jealousy (pun intended)...his post seemed a tad misogynistic.

Now I shall go back to yours and give it more attention...

Just kidding about the orgasms too, of course.:cool:

Ah Sparky, your post was more emotional, mine was more direct and rational... :D....

Just kidding about the orgasms too, of course.:cool:yeah I know, you've been a surf boy...I'm sure you know all the techniques.. ;)

I'm not sure about the technique, but I do know that being in love results in more passionate and rewarding lovemaking.
(And I must confess that I am blessed; I am happily married to the most multiple-orgasming girl in the history of all creation.)

Life is good!!

Many times many of the "less then 10's" HAVE emotional baggage because of the way YOU MEN have treated us in the first place!!
.


The 10s have tons of baggage, and usually for very good reason. The less than 10s don't but but up nigh-impenetrable walls.

I was simply saying that "the 10's" and the "non 10's" both have emotional baggage, AND they both put up walls.
Sparky and you are wrong in seperating women into groups like that, the only difference between your two groups is that some women are gold diggers- but even they have baggage and walls.

I wasn't whining.

so ... the best thing to do is stay alone and once and a while pick up a stray around 1:30am at a bar? :woohoo:

so ... the best thing to do is stay alone and once and a while pick up a stray around 1:30am at a bar? :woohoo:

For some women, that's when they're at their best.

What do women want out of men, and what do men want out of women?
It's foolish to generalize of course, but in the long run it comes down to this:
* Women want a mate for life, and someone who is chemically, hormonally, and biologically suited to give her healthy offspring.
* Men want to mate also. Frequently. With as many partners as can be made available.

In OUR society anyway, the young man's prowess at mating with multiple partners is the subject of much back-slapping and atta-boys at the high school and collegiate level. But at some point a grown man will mature, and he will find that he too desires fidelity & monogamy, and willingly submits to marriage and the whole business of child-rearing.

Men today are not getting the shaft. Men today are getting precisely what they are willing to work to achieve. (Or they are getting precisely what they are willing to put up with.) Masculinity is relative, and respect is earned, not given.

:

I agree. I live with a couple who has a baby, he works hard to take care of his home and wife and kid. I hope one day I will find a man like him but it seems rare these days.
Now, it seems, men want to have kids by different woman. I know one guy that has 9 children by 5 different woman and another that has 7 kids by 6 different women and I know for a fact that neither of them are paying for or being responsible for their children. The woman ended up getting state help and the guys get under the table jobs so they don't have to pay child support. losers!
It's obvious what the men are thinking with.:rolleyes:

All too common, and I hate that some guys are that way.
(Reckon that's why each State has the Office of Child Support Enforcement. If they don't want to pay, there is a pretty good agency who will generally find a way to make them.)

My own daughter can't get her ex boyfriend to pay his child support, but he too works under the table to avoid accountablity. And he's just been spotted running around town on a new motorcycle. My daughter is determined though. The State of Florida will soon be coming for that motorycycle, and the deadbeat dad who rides it in such a carefree and cavalier fashion.

There are some good fellows out there. Responsible, loving, and faithful to their wife, and affectionate and accountable to their children.
Damn few of us though.

Ah Sparky, you have explained it so well. I agree.
Why do some marriages last and others don't? Who knows? I'm just coming up to my 49th wedding anniversary. Most of my friends have been married for about the same length of time.

Unfortunately you are applying a purely cognitive approach (and a sublimely Spock-like logical mind-set) to a problem that was millions of years in the making.

Trust me, it's very very necessary. The minute you get personally involved in this sort of thing is the minute you lose your objectiveness, and your ability to determine causes and good rationale. The problem hasn't been making itself over millions of years, but rather only a few thousand.

What do women want out of men, and what do men want out of women?
It's foolish to generalize of course, but in the long run it comes down to this:
* Women want a mate for life, and someone who is chemically, hormonally, and biologically suited to give her healthy offspring.
* Men want to mate also. Frequently. With as many partners as can be made available.

I disagree with this characterization, because it inflames stereotypes. We do not need more stereotyping of the sexes. We need to understand each other, and highlighting cognitive differences will get us much further than gender biasing.

Men today are not getting the shaft. Men today are getting precisely what they are willing to work to achieve. (Or they are getting precisely what they are willing to put up with.) Masculinity is relative, and respect is earned, not given.

Men your age maybe, but I really dislike common sense approaches to problems. Stuff like, "respect is earned, not given," and "you get what you are willing to work for," fail to give a full appreciation to the reality of the human experience. They are merely emotional platitudes given to one at early ages that aren't adequately questioned or subjected to intellectual rigor, merely believed.

The fact that approximately 41% of all marriages end in divorce is not an indictment of the institution of marriage,

I think it should be. Marriage itself is an outdated construct that was initially used to provide everyone with mates, instead of just the alpha males, who would typically keep all the women for himself. Later it got perverted by the religious movement, who co-opted the idea in order to better push their ideologies, and gain greater control over people's lives. I think there is no need for society to take marriages so seriously.

The fact is, nobody is capable of communicating on exactly the same wave-length. But if you love each other enough, and are grown-up enough to handle that love (and roll with the inevitable punches), you can make it work, and be truly happy together.

Typical marriages last no longer than three years, the time it takes for a child to be borne out of infancy. This is a pattern that exists all over the world, and is in fact biologically based. Marriage exists in the United States primarily for children. We need to acknowledge this fact and quit expecting relationships to last "til death do us part." People are incapable of maintaining romance over long periods of time. They are capable of living with each other, and if they work exceptionally hard, can even bring themselves to like each other for that long, but romance is a fleeting thing. After a few months, it is gone, and now you have to find something else and try really hard to stay interested in the other. Attempts to "rekindle that spark" are little more than short-lived attempts to outwit biology.

Aaaaaaaaaaaaah, Nap see any irony here. The fact that you had to rewrite the post in order to redirect things is well...ya get my meaning.

I am well aware of the fact that people may not understand what I am saying. Everything I write is to clarify my position. I am constantly trying to figure out new ways to say things, figure out implications and subtleties. I write at a very high level of refinement. That makes it very easy to see flaws in the writing. I do this on purpose, to make me a better communicator of ideas. I do not attach myself to anything I write. I observe the responses and craft responses to clarify. You see irony in this because you seem to be more attached to what I am saying than I am. I am a nihilist. I could care less.

The difference between men and women is biologically based. Go back to your basic introductory Anthropology. Seriously. It's about survival and reproduction. Even women's ability to have multiple orgasms is about survival. Women bare the young. They can not hunt for meat (required protein) they can only do gathering...the brain needs protein (survival). Women nest, (love babies, protect them, feed them, keep them safe while in the cave or crossing the savanna ... men hunt, bring home the bacon and have sex.

This science is ancient. I live on the cutting edge, and these days, that's cognitive and statistical research. I have no use for fifty year old thinking.

Sparky and you are wrong in seperating women into groups like that, the only difference between your two groups is that some women are gold diggers- but even they have baggage and walls.

No, separating women like that is essential for men. It is how we think about the standards we have for dating women. Women think the same way, they just don't assign numbers to them.

See, what works with women, what gets them into bed, what attracts them, they can never fathom. A guy could be explaining exactly what he is doing that is causing the woman to feel attraction for him while he is doing it, and women will just shrug their shoulders and not understand, or vehemently object, even while they're falling for the technique. It's well documented within the pick-up artist community. Women will never admit that there is a method, an age-old pattern, to human attraction.

There is an entire community of people out there dedicated to learning and applying the mechanics of human attraction and mating. There are men out there who can read precisely the states of minds of women and act accordingly to seduce them. It is a teachable and learnable process. Any man can learn how to easily seduce as many women as they could ever want.

See, all these objections just highlight the cognitive differences between men and women. You say that the way I am thinking about this is wrong. It isn't wrong, it's just different. There aren't wrong or right ways to think about anything. Only more or less effective ones. I'm not interested in being effective, only describing processes. Women cannot fathom the male frame of mind, just as men cannot fathom the female frame. My frame is a mostly masculine one, I am describing the way men typically think about things. Yes, it is different from women. No, it isn't wrong. If I were to write the same thing, and couch it in more feminine terminology, there wouldn't be any objections. Maybe I will restate it that way when I have time and I feel like stretching my mind.

Sparky objects because his mind has been overwhelmed by feelings of love, so the emotional parts of his brain are heavily influenced by the female presence in his life. This affects his reasoning capabilities. Again, he isn't wrong, just influenced in other directions than the one I am.

I understand you guys are older, and more experienced. Sadly though, experience rarely gives you any special insights. If it did, everyone on the face of the planet would eventually be wise. It takes a peculiar mindset, a willingness to be different, and a spark of creativity to create insight. Merely repeating popular wisdom that your life managed to bear out some of the truth of isn't insight. It's laziness dressed up as wisdom.

My perspective is this. Men today are getting the shaft. Men are lost and without direction in this country. It was a necessary step, feminism was, but feminism needs to take back stage for awhile and let masculinism catch up. Females need to quit hating on men for being men. They need to quit isolating them from their peers after marriage and trying to fix and "domesticate" them. Men need to be left alone to be men. They need to be allowed to take the helm once more, and the females must find a new submissiveness to masculinity that allows men to reach their full growth as males yet disabuses them of the notion that they can use coercion to attain their goals.

Women are going to have to give up their hard won equality for awhile. If they give it up eagerly, as a gift to men, than humanity as a whole has much to gain from the shattering of that barrier. If they hem and haw, continuing to bust the balls of men, take advantage of their insecurities, and worst of all, put up impenetrable walls to interaction, than it will be a long, hard, battle of attrition, and sexual relations may just regress to worse than it was before feminism.




OMFG Pull your head out of your ass.
Well lets just go to the days of the cavemen and you can just club us and drag us to your cave. Freak sake. Get a real life no wonder your life and you are so jaded. Well it sound like you have no skill to communicate. I would definitely pass you by on a street if you feel that you are so hard done by, by us girls. You seem fine to lump all of us girls in one big group but you know what you are really loosing out on some really good women.

Shit this little rant you just went on is so stupid and ug makes me want to kick your ass and say you fool.. Yes this is my feminine rant on you. You may be a good guy and have the best of intentions but you have put both of your feet in your mouth. People get hurt and people put up walls but not all wall and people can't be broken down. Life can be good and the love of the right man/women can be the most wonderful thing in the world. I have been cheated on and beat on and had a lot of shitty things done to me but I did not give up on men. I have been with men that were good and I trusted completely with my life and it didn't work out but you can't give up. You need to take the time to get to know your partner before you let them in completely but that does not mean you don't try. It is a two way street.
Right now I have a really great guy that I have met and he knows my whole life because we took the time to TALK and get to know each other and respect the choices we have both made in our pasts.

Ok so I hope this is something you can listen and hear my side of the coin as a female person.

I understand you guys are older, and more experienced. Sadly though, experience rarely gives you any special insights. If it did, everyone on the face of the planet would eventually be wise. It takes a peculiar mindset, a willingness to be different, and a spark of creativity to create insight. Merely repeating popular wisdom that your life managed to bear out some of the truth of isn't insight. It's laziness dressed up as wisdom.

Brilliant largesse, and admirable swagger, young sir.

But let's compare notes in about five years or so.
Ten, maybe. (What the heck, I've got nothing else to do but wait for you to actually experience enough life, living, loving, failure, success, and humility to actually wade-in with any reasonable amount of credibility. Me being old and feeble and all, and you being smarter than the rest of us.)

I predict that you will have either changed your tune regarding living alone, or you will be truly living alone.

Either way, I am content with my dull, plodding life, and the life choices I made that got me to where I am today. I have gone from clueless kid to altar-boy to aimless student to outstanding employee to honored warrior to husband to father to rudderless divorcee-wretch to happy surfer to ecstatic lover to content husband to self-actualized human being.

But what the hell do I know?

Brilliant largesse, and admirable swagger, young sir.

But let's compare notes in about five years or so.
Ten, maybe. (What the heck, I've got nothing else to do but wait for you to actually experience enough life, living, loving, failure, success, and humility to actually wade-in with any reasonable amount of credibility. Me being old and feeble and all, and you being smarter than the rest of us.)

I predict that you will have either changed your tune regarding living alone, or you will be truly living alone.

Either way, I am content with my dull, plodding life, and the life choices I made that got me to where I am today. I have gone from clueless kid to altar-boy to aimless student to outstanding employee to honored warrior to husband to father to rudderless divorcee-wretch to happy surfer to ecstatic lover to content husband to self-actualized human being.

But what the hell do I know?

I like how you said all of this. With age sometimes comes wisdom. You are a man that will make someone very happy. It is cool to see it and for you to be able to say it in a way that makes it really interesting. You could have been so jaded like others seem to be. You could rant on women but you choose not to and I so respect that.. thanks

I am well aware of the fact that people may not understand what I am saying. Everything I write is to clarify my position. I am constantly trying to figure out new ways to say things, figure out implications and subtleties. I write at a very high level of refinement.
No Nap you don’t write at a very high level of refinement. Some of my Ph.D. friends do and there is no comparison. You surround yourself with people whom you view as less than you. Too bad, for by doing so you will shrink your mind rather than expand it.
That makes it very easy to see flaws in the writing. I do this on purpose, to make me a better communicator of ideas. I do not attach myself to anything I write. I observe the responses and craft responses to clarify. You see irony in this because you seem to be more attached to what I am saying than I am. I am a nihilist. I could care less.
It is easy to see flaws in your writing not because of your experimental style but because there are flaws in your logic. Your experimental style does not make you a better communicator of ideas if those reading it can not comprehend it. If you wish to write clearly and concisely you must be attached to what you write otherwise it is a waste of time for you and the reader. The written word is about communicating thought/feeling to another. I see irony because it WAS ironic. You fail to see it because to err is not an acceptable thing for you. Too bad because our biggest learning experiences are when we are wrong rather than when we are right.
This science is ancient. I live on the cutting edge, and these days, that's cognitive and statistical research. I have no use for fifty year old thinking. If you did live on the cutting edge you would willing embrace all opinions with respect not dismiss them merely because of the age of the speaker. Our greatest thinkers from the past were the most humble. You do not fit that category.
Nap you are young and you are bright and you have great potential…do not mess it up with an arrogant approach to the world. We get back what we give out. We draw to us that which we need to grow and expand. If you are arrogant and a know-it-all… you will draw that back to you and it will be a hard learning experience.

I understand you guys are older, and more experienced.
Actually after reading your post I think you understand very little of the human psyche at all. Less in fact than I had thought to begin with.
Sadly though, experience rarely gives you any special insights. If it did, everyone on the face of the planet would eventually be wise. It takes a peculiar mindset, a willingness to be different, and a spark of creativity to create insight. Merely repeating popular wisdom that your life managed to bear out some of the truth of isn't insight. It's laziness dressed up as wisdom. Experience CAN give you special insight if you have the strength and courage to change yourself accordingly. Not everyone does, thus everyone on the face of the planet will NOT eventually be wise. (Again you have flawed logic which is limiting your vision.) It is not a mind-set or a willingness to be different nor a spark of creatively which gives one insight. Rather it is the harshness of the world which tries our limits mentally and emotionally as human beings. Adapt or crack, and that involves a willingness to examine oneself and the situation and adapt in order to avoid making the same mistake again. Thus can one avoid repeating the same pain and anguish over and over and over. Wisdon is hard earned. It is not a mental exercise.

Repeating popular wisdom doesn’t make one wise, you are right... adapting and finding peace of mind, contentment, understanding and empathy make one wise…knowing how to share it makes one a sage.

I love ego. The ability to royally piss people off with little more than a few carefully chosen words and force them to re-evaluate their earlier opinions of me is the part about myself I enjoy the most. Nothing in life is more liberating or freeing than being hated by people that don't matter.

I abide by my own 95% policy. 95% of everything in life is worthless. Whether it's people, organizations, ideas, possessions, 95% of it is worthless. And there is no guarantee that the other 5% isn't worthless as well.

How do I find out what isn't worthless? Whoever has the flexibility of mind to deal with everything life throws at you. If you can handle me, well, you're doing pretty well.

I love how people respond to my distrust of popular wisdom with more popular wisdom.

I predict that you will have either changed your tune regarding living alone, or you will be truly living alone.

I get many, many such predictions. They all have a perfectly suited place for them in my heart. The circular file.

Repeating popular wisdom doesn’t make one wise, you are right... adapting and finding peace of mind, contentment, understanding and empathy make one wise…knowing how to share it makes one a sage.

This is the only thing I have yet to see you type that has any worth whatsoever. Consider yourself ahead. Most people never say anything of value.

And so why are you wasting your valuable time on this web-forum, young sir?
(When you could be out there laying waste to so many hapless women and all the other such inferior beings, and in person no less?)

I suspect that you are all bluff and very little substance, and that this web-based intellectual sparring affords you the one thing you cannot achieve in the real world; the opportunity to convince yourself that you are as huge as you fancy yourself to be.

Let's you and I hook up, Napsterbater. I'll buy you a drink, and introduce you to a really interesting species; the men and women of the real world.
Call me any time. I live within four short hours of three major metropolitan centers of art, culture, and southern hospitality.

Drinks are on me.
:thumbs:

I'm just coming up to my 49th wedding anniversary.

That's wonderful, oldtimer. Congratulations and best wishes.:)

I suspect that you are all bluff and very little substance, and that this web-based intellectual sparring affords you the one thing you cannot achieve in the real world; the opportunity to convince yourself that you are as huge as you fancy yourself to be.

I'm compensating for my tiny penis.

And so why are you wasting your valuable time on this web-forum, young sir?

Every time I win, my little guy grows from three inches to four.

I'll buy you a drink, and introduce you to a really interesting species; the men and women of the real world.

Will I need a respirator? I don't want to catch any strange diseases.

I would definitely pass you by on a street if you feel that you are so hard done by, by us girls.

Wait until I ask you out, honey. Then you can reject me. Just don't hold your breath. I don't find just anyone attractive. Especially girls on the internet. You could be like, three hundred pounds or something. It's always the plumpers that have such high opinions of themselves in public, but secretly hate themselves.

Women who, out of nowhere, exclaim, "Well, I would never go out with you!" are secretly wishing you would.

You're killing me, man.
Humility, irony, and humor, and all in the same thread at that.
:woohoo:

I take back every bad thing I ever said about you, Napsterbater.
You are a good egg.
A larger-than-life, swaggering, aloof, assuming, audacious, autocratic, cavalier, cheeky, cocky, conceited, contemptuous, disdainful, egotistic, haughty, imperious, peremptory, pompous, presumptuous, scornful, self-important, smug, supercilious, superior, and nearly-completely-nihilistic good egg. But a good egg all the same.
:thumbs:

PS And thanks for the tip on how to make ones stiffy grow from three to four inches. I tried it out on the missus yesterday evening, and she was most appreciative that I finally brought lumber to the big game.
:thumbs: :thumbs:

A larger-than-life, swaggering, aloof, assuming, audacious, autocratic, cavalier, cheeky, cocky, conceited, contemptuous, disdainful, egotistic, haughty, imperious, peremptory, pompous, presumptuous, scornful, self-important, smug, supercilious, superior, and nearly-completely-nihilistic good egg. But a good egg all the same.

Bet you had to break out the thesaurus on that one.

PS And thanks for the tip on how to make ones stiffy grow from three to four inches. I tried it out on the missus yesterday evening, and she was most appreciative that I finally brought lumber to the big game.

What did you win, if you don't mind me asking?

Hell, if you guys think this is funny, go back and read some threads of mine from six months ago. Shit, maybe I'll go back, pick out a few good ones and post some links myself, just so I can hear the sound of my own voice again as I destroy people.

I've been at this foruming game for awhile. I'm pretty good at it.

Wait until I ask you out, honey. Then you can reject me. Just don't hold your breath. I don't find just anyone attractive. Especially girls on the internet. You could be like, three hundred pounds or something. It's always the plumpers that have such high opinions of themselves in public, but secretly hate themselves.

Women who, out of nowhere, exclaim, "Well, I would never go out with you!" are secretly wishing you would.

Well baby you are going to be waiting a long time. Your moronic thinking and back ass ways are going to make you a very jaded and lonely guy. You say you don't just find anyone attractive well that is a two way street. This could be the reason you are alone and this negative. Games it sounds like you think you are the master of the puppets. Well You have a thing or two to learn and your caveman style is such a waste of time. Maybe one day you will grow out of the sandbox and graduate to the real world of a mature relationship. I have no secret wishes about you at all. I have a wonderful MAN in my life you treats me like gold and I would do anything for him also.
Mature relationships work on communication and respect which you have none of. I think one day you will grow up.

Please tell me again, why I should care what you think? For all I know, you're a butt-ugly wildebeest who couldn't find a date to save your life. You think you're automatically entitled to the respect you think I should give you? You are an anonymous face on the Internet handing out worthless advice. You are neither funny, interesting, insightful, or even remotely remarkable.

So you could say all the crap you want about me, I will put it in the same place I put every "heartfelt conviction of how much I have to learn," and prediction that I will be broke, penniless, and alone. The shredder. I neither want nor need your affection, adoration, friendship, or love. I could give a stinky three-day old diaper shit (what you will be dealing with soon, undoubtedly) about what you and your assuredly boring-ass boyfriend that you "love so much" talk about before you bump nasties.

I don't care about all the boyfriends that have wronged you in the past. I'm not interested in all the dumbasses you "loved so much," in the past, but beat the crap out of you. I've had the crap beat out of me too, but I don't turn around and love the guys that do it, try to stay with them, or any such nonsense. If your situation is different, I still don't care.

I want one thing and one thing only from you. Your hate. It feeds my ego in ways nothing else could. So don't try to twist this around and tell me that I want to actually date random bitches on the Internet. Nothing could be further from the truth.

I have to say I was A dog when I met my wife 17years ago. I was A roadie for A heavy metal band I had been around and not just on tour, drinking, smoking, drug use some of it I remember. another town another thing hay it was the 80`s. Wow how time changes everything my hair is still long and im not fat and bald(thank you god). I have to say my wife is my best friend and I learned alot from her, and she is a tall blonde that every one hit on and she did not get wierd, and she put up with a lot hell she married me. now I don`t smoke don`t use drugs (just say No) I like a beer now and then, gots to do something fun, I have three great kids we live in the back country. I learned one thing if i have learned anything Life is what you make it. if you would have pulled me aside while i was doing a gig and told me this is whare i was going to end up, Married of all things! I would of said your full of shit. But I can`t say I regret any of it.

This seems like a fun place to hang out....*koff*

:)
Kimi

Grab a beer, sit down, watch the show! The peanut gallery is welcomed here!

Thanks smoke em if you got em:upyours: Grab a beer, sit down, watch the show! The peanut gallery is welcomed here!

I love ego. The ability to royally piss people off with little more than a few carefully chosen words and force them to re-evaluate their earlier opinions of me is the part about myself I enjoy the most. Nothing in life is more liberating or freeing than being hated by people that don't matter..

Just to keep things clear you haven't said a thing yet that would even come close to irritating me let alone royally pissing me off. As for hating people on a message board nah, too much energy expended with no reward to head in that direction.


This is the only thing I have yet to see you type that has any worth whatsoever. Consider yourself ahead. Most people never say anything of value.
Hmm...too bad I thought there were a few other little gems in there that you might desparately grasp onto... oh well... another day, another post...:cool:

Just to keep things clear you haven't said a thing yet that would even come close to irritating me let alone royally pissing me off. As for hating people on a message board nah, too much energy expended with no reward to head in that direction.

It's the unconscious response I'm looking for, that emotional reaction to my posts that is always far greater and far more personal than the musty Spock-speak that I use to convey concepts. What I have to say cuts to the very core of many people's beliefs and deeply held desires.

You might think of yourself as being nice and in control of yourself when you attempt to refute what I am saying, and think of myself as wrong and yourself as right, but I think only in terms of action, reaction, and attempts at grabbing control over the discussion. I can illustrate if you like, by going over yours, mine, and shortstuff's parts of the discussion, highlighting all the emotion-based responses, power grabs, and misreadings.

Hmm...too bad I thought there were a few other little gems in there that you might desparately grasp onto... oh well... another day, another post...

I shall never look to another person for a conscious embodiment of insight, truth, growth, or anything. In the past, I would take tarot reading, astrological charts, spiritual readings and other such nonsenses, only to realize that every person's advice is going to be limited by the ability of their brains to comprehend whatever it is they're reading. I don't disbelieve any kinds of divination at all, I just don't think the ability magically affords one the opportunity to read people of a greater complexity than yourself. It is this reason I had to fall away from paganism, magic, and the entire concept of personal growth. They just aren't complex enough to deal with real people.

I think such concepts, particularly that of personal growth, can work, they just aren't subtle, powerful, or accurate enough to help anybody, as of yet.

I am the only real embodiment of worth, insight, whatever word you use to describe the action of understanding and using knowledge of the human experience I have ever borne direct witness to.

(in genuine awe now)
And we all dance in gentle orbit around you, like celestial space dust and lesser-planets around a larger, more significant heavenly body.

All hail Napsterbater!!
(bows and genuflects in a meek and deferential fashion)
:eek:

I didn't really mean for this to become an "Everybody post the lyrics to their favorite song" thread, but whatever works, I guess.

ok

I want a new drug - one that won't make me sick
One that won't make me crash my car, or make me feel three feet thick
I want a new drug - one that won't hurt my head
One that won't make my mouth too dry, or make my eyes too red

One that won't make me nervous, wonderin' what to do
One that makes me feel like I feel when I'm with you
When I'm alone with you

I want a new drug - one that won't spill
One that don't cost too much, or come in a pill
I want a new drug - one that won't go away
One that won't keep me up all night, one that won't make me sleep all day
One that won't make me nervous, wonderin' what to do ...
I'm alone with you, baby

I want a new drug - one that does what it should
One that won't make me feel too bad
One that won't make me feel too good
I want a new drug - one with no doubt
One that won't make me nervous, wonderin' what to do
I'm alone with you, I'm alone with you, yeah

Go placidly amid the noise and haste,
and remember what peace there may be in silence.
As far as possible without surrender
be on good terms with all persons.
Speak your truth quietly and clearly;
and listen to others,
even the dull and the ignorant;
they too have their story.

Avoid loud and aggressive persons,
they are vexations to the spirit.
If you compare yourself with others,
you may become vain and bitter;
for always there will be greater and lesser persons than yourself...

OMFG Pull your head out of your ass.
Well lets just go to the days of the cavemen and you can just club us and drag us to your cave. Freak sake. Get a real life no wonder your life and you are so jaded. Well it sound like you have no skill to communicate. I would definitely pass you by on a street if you feel that you are so hard done by, by us girls. You seem fine to lump all of us girls in one big group but you know what you are really loosing out on some really good women.

Shit this little rant you just went on is so stupid and ug makes me want to kick your ass and say you fool.. Yes this is my feminine rant on you. You may be a good guy and have the best of intentions but you have put both of your feet in your mouth. People get hurt and people put up walls but not all wall and people can't be broken down. Life can be good and the love of the right man/women can be the most wonderful thing in the world. I have been cheated on and beat on and had a lot of shitty things done to me but I did not give up on men. I have been with men that were good and I trusted completely with my life and it didn't work out but you can't give up. You need to take the time to get to know your partner before you let them in completely but that does not mean you don't try. It is a two way street.
Right now I have a really great guy that I have met and he knows my whole life because we took the time to TALK and get to know each other and respect the choices we have both made in our pasts.

Ok so I hope this is something you can listen and hear my side of the coin as a female person.


typical woman. yak,yak,yak.

women should be seen, not heard.

now get back to the kitchen and make me a sammich!

Grab a beer, sit down, watch the show! The peanut gallery is welcomed here!

Thanks! That's better than way we've been described at other times...

:)
Kimi

You might think of yourself as being nice and in control of yourself when you attempt to refute what I am saying, and think of myself as wrong and yourself as right, but I think only in terms of action, reaction, and attempts at grabbing control over the discussion. I can illustrate if you like, by going over yours, mine, and shortstuff's parts of the discussion, highlighting all the emotion-based responses, power grabs, and misreadings..
Actually I do not think of myself as being nice and in control. I just respond how I please in the moment to the words on the page. Neither do I necessarily consider myself "ultimately" right even if I am refuting what you say. It is merely a mental and emotional excercise which I enjoy. That's why I post. Since you view it as a "grabbing control over the discussion" you labelled my emotion incorrectly. For me it not about control it is merely banter, and fun and a brain exercise. At the end of said discussions I learn more from those I disagree with than from those whose views are similar. Similar views merely make me feel comfortable with where I am.

I shall never look to another person for a conscious embodiment of insight, truth, growth, or anything. In the past, I would take tarot reading, astrological charts, spiritual readings and other such nonsenses, only to realize that every person's advice is going to be limited by the ability of their brains to comprehend whatever it is they're reading.
You and I are worlds apart here. I look to everyone I encounter on a daily basis for the knowledge or wisdom which they may impart to me. Sometimes it may even come in a somewhat negative form. Today one of my employees talked at length on her opinion of extending life when a person knows they will soon die. I radically disagree with her. But rather than arguing as I would have in the past I listen with respect to why she believes such and it confirms to me that my belief is correct for me. I learned something from her today. She gave me her insight and truth and by doing so she confirmed mine for me. Maybe someday mine will change. But for now I am good where I am.

I don't disbelieve any kinds of divination at all, I just don't think the ability magically affords one the opportunity to read people of a greater complexity than yourself. It is this reason I had to fall away from paganism, magic, and the entire concept of personal growth. They just aren't complex enough to deal with real people. I think such concepts, particularly that of personal growth, can work, they just aren't subtle, powerful, or accurate enough to help anybody, as of yet.
Perhaps if you choose, you could restate this as I am unsure of what you mean.

I am the only real embodiment of worth, insight, whatever word you use to describe the action of understanding and using knowledge of the human experience I have ever borne direct witness to.
Well there is nothing I can say to refute that. Perhaps your perception is remiss and you fail to understand their meaning or perhaps you do indeed surround yourself with people who have less knowledge than you. Only you can alter your reality.

I am the only real embodiment of worth, insight, whatever word you use to describe the action of understanding and using knowledge of the human experience I have ever borne direct witness to.

I really think you may benefit by increasing your experiences. Perhaps increasing the number of people you know may help.

Oldtimer, I was a military brat. I've crossed the country more times than I have fingers, and have made and lost friends each time. I like people. I really do. I just don't think that the vast majority of them have anything of worth to say. I meet new people all the time, sit and talk with them. Try to get to know them. I want to know the human experience. Every person has a part of the whole, but no one has the whole. Few people even have an appreciable fraction. So I watch all these people, observe their actions, watch the thoughts running around in their heads that their bodies inevitably bear witness to. I get to know their struggles, their desires, their goals.

Reality is much, much greater than any of us can give credit for. All I want to do here is to get people to give that credit.

Actually I do not think of myself as being nice and in control. I just respond how I please in the moment to the words on the page. Neither do I necessarily consider myself "ultimately" right even if I am refuting what you say. It is merely a mental and emotional excercise which I enjoy. That's why I post. Since you view it as a "grabbing control over the discussion" you labelled my emotion incorrectly. For me it not about control it is merely banter, and fun and a brain exercise. At the end of said discussions I learn more from those I disagree with than from those whose views are similar. Similar views merely make me feel comfortable with where I am.

Then it seems our interactions were for the benefit of others.

You and I are worlds apart here. I look to everyone I encounter on a daily basis for the knowledge or wisdom which they may impart to me. Sometimes it may even come in a somewhat negative form. Today one of my employees talked at length on her opinion of extending life when a person knows they will soon die. I radically disagree with her. But rather than arguing as I would have in the past I listen with respect to why she believes such and it confirms to me that my belief is correct for me. I learned something from her today. She gave me her insight and truth and by doing so she confirmed mine for me. Maybe someday mine will change. But for now I am good where I am.

Whatever works for you.

Perhaps if you choose, you could restate this as I am unsure of what you mean.

If you cannot grasp the meaning of the entire paragraph, then it wouldn't be worth the effort. If you had a more specific concern with what I said, please share this with me.

Perhaps your perception is remiss and you fail to understand their meaning or perhaps you do indeed surround yourself with people who have less knowledge than you. Only you can alter your reality.

When I talk with people in a more relaxed, face-to-face perspective, I neither pass judgment, attempt to advise, or do anything other than provide the basic curiosity in others that we are always hoping others would show in us. If they say something new, I will ask questions, and attempt to understand their experience.

Only once they ask for, or indicate with their body language that they are looking for approval, advice, or some other such contact, will I take a stab at helping them. You attempt to help me, with no such input, on the contrary, I have completely made it known that I am simply not interested in anything you have to say. Why is this?

I have completely made it known that I am simply not interested in anything you have to say. Why is this?
It matters not why. Point made.

It matters not why. Point made.

I think he just needs a hug......

Here's the deal. If you want to say something important, interesting, or worthwhile, this is how to do it.

First off, you have to have something interesting to say. If you don't, and still want to contribute meaningfully to the conversation, you can try being funny. A lot of insight comes from humor. But let's break down interesting for a second. Interesting is something that conveys a viewpoint outside of the mainstream. Any idiot can regurgitate popular wisdom. But it takes character and insight to be able to stick out.

Second, you have to say something. You cannot make an entire post full of fluff and expect me to take you seriously. Your post must have a platform from which you are speaking. You cannot latch on to my platform and attack it without one of your own. Without conveying that platform in your writing, I will not take you seriously.

Thirdly, you have to use the techniques of good writing. Lines and lines of rambling thought are not okay. A typo here and there is just fine. But your work must flow easily from one thought to the next. Reading it cannot induce migraines. If I have to suffer through your writing, then I am going to pick out logical inconsistencies and hammer you on them, making you wish you had never opened your mouth in the first place.

If you choose to attack me, fine. But be prepared to withstand my counters. The very best writing references nobody. Two people simply asking and answering questions of each other in a relaxed setting, exploring viewpoints without reservation or judgment. If you want to say things of worth, that is the best way, and I am more than amenable to that type of interaction. I am also very comfortable with conflict, and move easily from things of great worth to petty quarrels. It's all fun to me.

I look at any attempt to appeal to my weak and vulnerable side by "helping me" as an affront and an insult to my intelligence. Doing this detracts from my enjoyment of conversation, and I will act quickly to safeguard my own interests, by moving the conversation towards more or less useful as I see fit. I honestly don't think anyone has anything to tell me that will move me any further towards happiness, success, love, whatever. My life's experience is in understanding these things and why humans seem to place such great worth in them, not in chasing them myself. I must remove myself from a personal interest in these things so that I can pursue my goal in understanding them.

I can admit for me I post out of frustration some time when I read certain things and comments. I concede that some of your points are valid all be it jaded. You still have a right to voice them as I have a right to comment. Comment is the key word not to attack you as a person. Which I guess with some of your comments I did see red.

I can respect that you can debate a topic and turn it around. Sparing is always a good thing to entice others to learn and listen and articulate their views.

Originally Posted by Napsterbater


My perspective is this. Men today are getting the shaft. Men are lost and without direction in this country. It was a necessary step, feminism was, but feminism needs to take back stage for awhile and let masculines catch up. Females need to quit hating on men for being men. They need to quit isolating them from their peers after marriage and trying to fix and "domesticate" them. Men need to be left alone to be men. They need to be allowed to take the helm once more, and the females must find a new submissiveness to masculinity that allows men to reach their full growth as males yet disabuses them of the notion that they can use coercion to attain their goals.

OK thinking and reading your point of view as it reads. I guess it could have a bit of validation. Some women take this feminism shit to far. They want to wear that pants and have the men bow down.
My point was that not all women are like that. OK, Yes emotions can play a key roll in this idea but it is also based on an individual and how they tick. Past experiences also play a roll. It may not be fair but it is truthful. People are more ruled by emotions then logic most of the time. Maybe that is the difference between men and women. Men think more black and white with hardly any grey areas and women are ruled by emotions.

I guess I kind of enjoyed the sparing on this topic and challenged me to step back and try and see another persons point of view. I have to give you kudos on knowing how to use the pressure point words to invoke a certain kind of response.

I concede that some of your points are valid all be it jaded.

I am not jaded. I think you just do not understand the masculine point of view. It would be great for me to find a woman I could love as much as I love myself. But I must have mechanisms for picking these women out, and dealing with the rest in a way that does not impact my thinking. The simple truth is that the vast majority of women are just as incapable as the vast majority of men at loving another person. I am capable.

It is tough. There are no techniques, no methods that exist to help a person find love. There are many techniques out there to help a person keep the one they have. You have these techniques, and are mistaking one for the other, putting the cart before the horse.

The closest thing that comes to that method is the art of picking up women. Sadly, becoming a pick-up artist and finding love are two totally different animals. But it's all we men have, and as such, it is an important skill to learn.

Women do not like the idea of pick-up artistry. They like to think of themselves as the selector in the gender game. But women are not satisfied with being the controller. Deep down, all women want their men to be powerful and masterful and in control. They try to push men into this by playing games, busting on men, making them emotionally available, (ie vulnerable) and other nonsenses. They do not understand the male frame of mind, however, and their efforts only antagonize men and make them weak. Only once women understand men, will they be able to help them.

I'm going to have to take issue with your attempts to validate my opinion. You are still latching on to my platform, only going the other way with it. It doesn't really matter whether you think my ideas and observations are truthful or not. All that matters is whether you have such a platform or not. You would be far better served to increase your own understanding than you would to increase mine. I am perfectly capable of increasing my own understanding, and you telling me otherwise is an affront to my intelligence.

Sure is wonderful, but it's my wife that deserves all the credit. Sometimes I wonder why women put up with us. I really do think the saying "behind every successful man is a great woman" has a lot of truth.