I always knew it.. under that "wanting to be a working man" skin... Kerry is an elitist.. and anyone under him are potential pee-ons...

Here is Kerry's latest quote:

"You know, education, if you make the most of it, you study hard, you do your homework and you make an effort to be smart, you can do well. If you don't, you get stuck in Iraq."

........

So basically... if you do what Kerry did, you're a smart brave man!!! and if not.. you're a dumb fuck in Iraq!.. thats what i got out of it.

Tony Snow.. white house press secretary:

"Senator Kerry not only owes an apology to those who are serving, but also to the families of those who've given their lives in this," White House press secretary Tony Snow said. "This is an absolute insult."


Kerry of course is backing up in full denial...

"This is the classic GOP playbook," Kerry said in a harshly worded statement. "I'm sick and tired of these despicable Republican attacks that always seem to come from those who never can be found to serve in war, but love to attack those who did. I'm not going to be lectured by a stuffed suit White House mouthpiece standing behind a podium."

LOL.. um, i hate to break it to you Mr. Kerry.. but you got caught sir. What you said was DIRECTLY an insult to the troops... I dont know what else it could even be directed to...

And listen to this smokescreen Kerry is giving!!

He[Kerry] said he had been criticizing Bush, not the "heroes serving in Iraq," and said the president and his administration are the ones who owe U.S. troops an apology because they "misled America into war and have given us a Katrina foreign policy that has betrayed our ideals, killed and maimed our soldiers, and widened the terrorist threat instead of defeating it."

LMAO... why didnt Kerry throw in "gee, how bout the weather today?" along with his list of changes of subject. What a leach Kerry is, the guy has no spine, and slipped up and let us know how he really feels about things. People in Iraq are dumb fucks who "couldnt make it" in the education system... vote Kerry in 08!:thumbs:

http://www.washingtonpost.com/wp-dyn/content/article/2006/10/31/AR2006103100649.html

"This is the classic GOP playbook," Kerry said in a harshly worded statement. "I'm sick and tired of these despicable Republican attacks that always seem to come from those who never can be found to serve in war, but love to attack those who did. I'm not going to be lectured by a stuffed suit White House mouthpiece standing behind a podium."


Since when is pointing out something you said an attack? oh ya, I forgot, you served in a war no one can say anything bad about you ever again. what a jackass. He calls the troops in iraq stupid and flip flops on his "people who get deferments are cowards" line all at the same time then turns around and hides behind his short stint in Vietnam. such an asshole.

Kerry's new political adviser, Homer Simpson, advises him to say.....

White House slams Kerry for Iraq remarks
President's spokesman says Massachusetts senator owes an apology
The Associated Press


Updated: 3:58 p.m. ET Oct 31, 2006
WASHINGTON - The White House accused Sen. John Kerry on Tuesday of troop-bashing, seizing on a comment the Democrat made to California students that those unable to navigate the country’s education system “get stuck in Iraq.”

“Senator Kerry not only owes an apology to those who are serving, but also to the families of those who’ve given their lives in this,” White House press secretary Tony Snow said. “This is an absolute insult.”

Kerry, a decorated Vietnam veteran and Bush’s rival in 2004, fired back, saying the president and his administration are the ones who owe U.S. troops an apology because they “misled America into war and have given us a Katrina foreign policy that has betrayed our ideals, killed and maimed our soldiers, and widened the terrorist threat instead of defeating it.”

“This is the classic GOP playbook,” Kerry said in a harshly worded statement. “I’m sick and tired of these despicable Republican attacks that always seem to come from those who never can be found to serve in war, but love to attack those who did. I’m not going to be lectured by a stuffed suit White House mouthpiece standing behind a podium.”

One week before the midterm elections, the two parties are searching for any edge amid indications Democrats could take back the House and possibly win control of the Senate.


Snow was asked about the comment which Kerry made during a campaign rally Monday for California Democratic gubernatorial candidate Phil Angelides. The White House spokesman was clearly ready, consulting his notes to read a fuller account of Kerry’s statement and unleashing a sharp attack.

The Massachusetts senator, who is considering another presidential run in 2008, had opened his speech at Pasadena City College with several one-liners, joking at one point that Bush had lived in Texas but now “lives in a state of denial.”

Then he said: “You know, education, if you make the most of it, you study hard, you do your homework and you make an effort to be smart, you can do well. If you don’t, you get stuck in Iraq.”

Snow said the quote “fits a pattern” of negative remarks from Kerry about U.S. soldiers and suggested that whether Democratic candidates — particularly those running on their military service backgrounds — agree with their 2004 standard-bearer should be a campaign litmus test.

Unsubstantiated allegations about Kerry’s Vietnam War heroism from a group called Swift Boat Veterans for Truth figured prominently in the 2004 Kerry-Bush race. Even Kerry has blamed his slow and uncertain response to the group’s claims for helping doom his White House chances.

Snow said a lot of Americans have joined the military since the Sept. 11 terrorist attacks.

“As for the notion that you can say this sort of thing about the troops and say you support them, it’s interesting,” the press secretary said.

A potential rival to Kerry in 2008 — Republican Sen. John McCain — said in a statement that Kerry “owes an apology to the many thousands of Americans serving in Iraq, who answered their country’s call because they are patriots and not because of any deficiencies in their education.”

Like Kerry, McCain is a decorated Vietnam veteran.

House Majority Leader John Boehner, R-Ohio, also called on Kerry to apologize, labeling his comments “disrespectful and insulting to the men and women serving in our military.”

© 2006 The Associated Press. All rights reserved. This material may not be published, broadcast, rewritten or redistributed.
URL: http://www.msnbc.msn.com/id/15499174/?GT1=8618

Snow was asked about the comment which Kerry made during a campaign rally Monday for California Democratic gubernatorial candidate Phil Angelides. The White House spokesman was clearly ready, consulting his notes to read a fuller account of Kerry’s statement and unleashing a sharp attack.

It gets more like the Twilight Zone each day in this country.

Snow's ConservaFascist bosses send 2800 young soldiers off to die in some bullshit "war" so that their cronies in the Big Oil and Big Defense industries can make a few more tens of billions, yet when some e-ville politician with an opposing view has the gall to ---in some inconsequential aside-- point out that the Emperor has no clothes, it's the whistleblower who is supposed to *apologize*. Unbelievable.

________________________________________________

Kerry was speaking truth to power.

Whats the educational requirements to enter the US Military guys.

Whats the educational requirements to enter the US Military guys.Count to two and say yes sir, can I die for a lie sir!:thumbs:

Hm, probably not far off the mark. Ive noticed, maybe this is just me, Im sure some of our military people can put me right, Ive noticed a lot of the name tags on GI tunics are Hispanic, I guess its a good secure career for more disadvantaged kids,apart from when fuckers in Washington play politics with their lives that is.

Whats the educational requirements to enter the US Military guys.


Minimum 12 years education or the accepted equivalent. More is preferred.

"You know, education, if you make the most of it, you study hard, you do your homework and you make an effort to be smart, you can do well. If you don't, you get stuck in Iraq."

Kerry has said this was a "botched joke" about Bush.

Tell me Decka, is it possible he chose his words poorly and was misunderstood, or does that only happen to you?

Pardon me for asking BUT didn't those idiots on the Left keep saying that they supported the troops but not the war? Kerry just stood before a group of students and basically said be smart or get stuck in Iraq? SO if those working hard in college getting their degrees and what have you are "smart" then it stands to reason that those "stuck in Iraq" are stupid. Some support.

Two things come to mind.

First off, there is this all consuming obsession by the Democrats over Iraq. They talk about practically nothing else, dammit. Of course, it IS about the only issue they can run on, but other than that Kerry could've said just about ANYTHING else as to what happens to people who don't work hard and get an education. Like working fast food or Wal-Mart for instance. (With Wal-Mart being the third Big Evil right behind Big Oil and Big Tobacco, Kerry could've slammed Wal-Mart and probably gotten away with it) But Kerry just had to take a swipe at the Iraq war by insulting our soldiers.

Secondly, Kerry really should've apologized, or at least a few leading Democrats should've apologized. That is the short route to getting this entire incident forgotten. Kerry could just say, "Sorry about insinuating any insults to our troops, I was trying to bash Bush and it came out wrong" but he doesn't seem to want to go down that road. So what's probably going to happen is Kerry's rather long record of insulting U.S. troops is going to a good going over by the talking heads on the right. They're going to replay Kerry's testimony over the "attrocities" he testified about in Vietnam and they're going to go over his book "Winter Soldier" which is one long slam fest over the behavior of troops in Vietnam. This could get messy, I think, dammit.

As an outsider looking in, if I was a Democrat Id be mad as hell if my fellow countrymen were being slaughtered in a foreign country for nothing.

If I was an American, I should have said.

As an outsider looking in, if I was a Democrat Id be mad as hell if my fellow countrymen were being slaughtered in a foreign country for nothing.
A: My countrymen aren't being "slaughtered", they are doing the slaughtering.
B: The conflict is not "for nothing."

In answer to A, your half right and half wrong.
B. The conflict does not now, nor ever has, given better security to the US, in fact its probably made matters worse.

As an outsider looking in, if I was a Democrat Id be mad as hell if my fellow countrymen were being slaughtered in a foreign country for nothing.

From a common sense type of perspective, if I did "support" the troops, if I cared about the casualties those troops were suffering while on deployment, if I wanted to see those troops safe and sound, I wouldn't go before a group of students and insult them on national TV. But then again, that's just me, dammit.

Fair point. I know and understand that its an unwritten rule that you support your troops,especially when their in the field, and a man who never lets you forget he was in Vietnam should have known better. Im pretty sure the Republicans will run with this for the next week, tho I dont think it will effect next weeks ballots.

In answer to A, your half right and half wrong.
B. The conflict does not now, nor ever has, given better security to the US, in fact its probably made matters worse.
On A: I'm just right.
On B: The conflict isn't about giving us security.

Re A: Hundreds of thousands of Iraqi have died since the invasion, the US military would be involved in thousands if not tens of thousands of these deaths.
In the month of October, which ended in Iraq about 4 hours ago, about 100 + Americans have been killed, if that isnt slaughter I dont know what is.

Re B: In your opinion, what is the conflict about then.

Paul,

Do me a favor and read some Amir Taheri. I'll post his latest link for you here, READ IT!!!

I just finished highlighting Amir's articles in another All Forums section, but this is easier to find.

http://www.benadorassociates.com/article/20213

Re A: In the month of October, which ended in Iraq about 4 hours ago, about 100 + Americans have been killed, if that isnt slaughter I dont know what is.
3 a day is suddenly "slaughter"? Am I on the right planet?
Re B: In your opinion, what is the conflict about then.
This conflict in Iraq is about supplanting a brutal dictator with a new, sectarian regime willing to trade oil in mass quantities with us. It is about destabilizing the region in an attempt to make a profit. It is about destroying the Ba'athists and bringing a democracy to a Islamiah fascist region.

Does that answer it for you?

If Kerry didn't have an awkward past when speaking about US soldiers he'd probably get the benefit of the doubt on this one. But don't forget what he said when he left VietNam. He compared his own fellow soldiers to Jenjis Khan (his pronunciation, not mine). And last year he said our soldiers were like terrorists in the night (or something to that effect).

In the past year other Democrats, when describing our soldiers, have invoked Nazis, Pol Pot, "cold blooded murderers", the Gulags, etc. Those guys got away with it. Unfortunately for Kerry, he has a history.

Count to two and say yes sir, can I die for a lie sir!:thumbs:Education or not, I guarantee they wouldn't take you.

I always knew it.. under that "wanting to be a working man" skin... Kerry is an elitist.. and anyone under him are potential pee-ons...

Here is Kerry's latest quote:

"You know, education, if you make the most of it, you study hard, you do your homework and you make an effort to be smart, you can do well. If you don't, you get stuck in Iraq."

........

So basically... if you do what Kerry did, you're a smart brave man!!! and if not.. you're a dumb fuck in Iraq!.. thats what i got out of it.

When I heard it I didn't get that impression, and I didn't get the impression that it was a shot at Bush, as Kerry is claiming. I thought it was the same argument that the Left has been making, which is the majority of those in Iraq are poor or minorities. I could be wrong but thats the first thing that crossed my mind.

Tony Snow.. white house press secretary:

"Senator Kerry not only owes an apology to those who are serving, but also to the families of those who've given their lives in this," White House press secretary Tony Snow said. "This is an absolute insult."



LOL.. um, i hate to break it to you Mr. Kerry.. but you got caught sir. What you said was DIRECTLY an insult to the troops... I dont know what else it could even be directed to...




OMG, I can't believe the Right is proping up the military and claiming you can't disagree with them. Is no one allowed to disagree with the war without being called heartless or insulting? :rolleyes:

OMG, I can't believe the Right is proping up the military and claiming you can't disagree with them. What??

What??

There you go, thats the reaction I was hoping for. See how ridiculuos of an argument it is when someone makes the kind of comment Kerry made (or the comments Limbaugh made about MJ Fox, or Coulter made about the widows) and then someone says "all he did was disagree with them"? Glad you agee.

Kerry said today that he would apologize to "no one."

Kerry can go on record for one thing. He just single-handedly gave next weeks elections to the Republicans.
Oh sure, the die hard democrats will vote democratic, but the people that were going to stay home and not vote are mad, they will turn out just to vote against the Democrats. I have already heard some express this.

It will suprise me if Hillary does not come out, tomorrow, and speak against Kerry and apologize for him. Just to save her ass in 08'.

There you go, thats the reaction I was hoping for. See how ridiculuos of an argument it is...No, I wasn't saying your point was ridiculous. My point was more in the sense of "your words make no sense to me and I don't know what you're saying."

Maybe that clears it up a little better.

Well - Kerry is a fool to say such a thing because it's perfectly understandable for people to be offended by it, not least actual soldiers in the military in Iraq, but the reality is what he said is basically a valid comment. People often don't like to hear the truth - least of all Bush.

I have no use for John Kerry, and I have long held the opinion that Massachusetts must be some sort of strange, parallel universe (in that he and Ted Kennedy continue to be re-elected to public office there.)

That said, I don’t believe that Kerry was referring to the troops in Iraq when he executed that gaffe; I believe that was just his ‘clever’ way of calling GW Bush a bugger-eating moron.

He chose his words poorly, and stuck his foot in his mouth. End of story.

Kennedy and Kerry are part of that old clan stuff they do up there, come election time theyll thro up the 'old sod' stories and walk it every time. Having a K at the start of your surname seems to help also.

Darth, I read the NY Post article, hmm.
Firstly, President Bush convinced the American public that Saddam had WMDs, and used this as a justification to invade, even tho UN Weapons inspectors could find nothing after extensive searching. After the occupation, US Forces turned Iraq upside down to find evidence, still nothing, so either the President or his National Security Advisers were lying, whichever, the buck stops at the top.
If you believe everything the Post says, then yes the insurgents didnt achieve their goals, but 100 US Troops still died, countless Iraqis died and the country is on the verge of civil war. The new Administration has no power outside of a few streets in downtown Baghdad, and when the British and American Military are allowing local Muslim Clerics to control parts of the country with their own private Armys, the whole exercise is a total failure, and the Bush Administration seem to be loosing interest in the whole thing. Thanks to incompetence and lies at the very top of Government. As a result 2816 US troops have died, countless thousands of Iraqi, a country destroyed and ungovernable and an entire region destabilised, add to this the fact that the invasion detracted vast amounts of US resources from the war on terror and allowed alQaeda leaders to escape, just when US troops were cornering them, if you dont believe that look at Afghanistan, you couldnt have planned a bigger disaster if you tried, the last time blunders were commited on this scale 58,000 US Servicemen died in SE Asia, nothing was achieved then either.

Kennedy and Kerry ....the 'old sod' stories and walk it every time. Here's the great PS to that story. After years of making statements such as this.....

''For those of us who are fortunate to share an Irish ancestry, we take great pride in the contributions that Irish-Americans …"
—Senate floor statement by John Kerry, March 18, 1986

....it turns out Kerry isn't even Irish.

http://www.slate.com/id/2079783/

Firstly, President Bush convinced the American public that Saddam had WMDs....Paul, don't lose sight of the fact that many others convinced us of that including John Kerry and President Clinton.

Good one Brooks, seemed to have worked tho, I dont know the lay of the land up there but I imagine if ya do the bullshit bit it works.

Paul, don't lose sight of the fact that many others convinced us of that including John Kerry and President Clinton.
That may be Brooks,and if they had made the call I would rub it in about them also, this issue should be above party politics, even tho the Republicans should take the rap for it, the situation should be seen as a National Disaster, not just a political one.

That said, I don’t believe that Kerry was referring to the troops in Iraq when he executed that gaffe; I believe that was just his ‘clever’ way of calling GW Bush a bugger-eating moron.

He chose his words poorly, and stuck his foot in his mouth. End of story.

I agree. It makes absolutely no sense for him to come out and call the "troops" stupid. His comment makes more sense as a jab at Bush.

its no secret that if you want to stay out of a war you go to college, we have known that in this country for a long time. The problem with it is that up until this point the democrats have blasted republicans who didnt go to vietnam because they were in college as cowards and draft dodgers. Correct me if i am wrong, but wasnt vietnam "for nothing" too? Its just another case of wanting it all. Kerry calls cheney and rotehrs cowards for not dropping out of college and going to vietnam but tells college kids that if they dont want to get stuck in iraq to stay in college. Its just typical political doublespeak.

The media is saying that Kerry's comments may cost the democrats control of the house. How dumb is that? I doubt the people of the US ultimately will vote based on something that empty suit Kerry said.

The GOP will lose the house because they are corrupt, incompetant and apparently have no problems protecting child molesters.

I dont see it costing any seats anywhere.

He just single-handedly gave next weeks elections to the Republicans.

The media is saying that Kerry's comments may cost the democrats control of the house. How dumb is that? I doubt the people of the US ultimately will vote based on something that empty suit Kerry said.

I'm with Drew - I don't see this affecting anyone other than Kerry. I certainly wouldn't hold it against a Democrat that I respected and I certainly wouldn't vote for a Republican I don't respect because of it.

He's going to have a hard time explaining it away if he tries to run again in two years.

The really interesting thing that I observe lately is the, to me, obvious fact that neither party has a solid plan to offer to voters.
Therefore, they spend their time relishing the opportunity to attack each other on a personal level.
These personal attacks seem to be ploys to take the minds of voters away from the issues that should be addressed.
The next observation is that this ploy seems to work.

Reminds me of a magician's trick, watch one hand while the other hand is busy fooling you.

3 a day is suddenly "slaughter"? Am I on the right planet?

This conflict in Iraq is about supplanting a brutal dictator with a new, sectarian regime willing to trade oil in mass quantities with us. It is about destabilizing the region in an attempt to make a profit. It is about destroying the Ba'athists and bringing a democracy to a Islamiah fascist region.

Does that answer it for you?

If your one of the three it is. No, wrong planet, please leave.

Wasn't it about weapons of mass destruction? If I remember right that is what the Bush administration was selling at that time. Of course that may not be the reasoning now.

Education or not, I guarantee they wouldn't take you.
Really! You a recruiter or just have the final say on who gets in?

I agree. It makes absolutely no sense for him to come out and call the "troops" stupid. His comment makes more sense as a jab at Bush.
There it is, but the right wingers will run with it as usual, no jab at the troops intended.

The media is saying that Kerry's comments may cost the democrats control of the house. How dumb is that? I doubt the people of the US ultimately will vote based on something that empty suit Kerry said.

The GOP will lose the house because they are corrupt, incompetant and apparently have no problems protecting child molesters.

You may be correct Drew, but consider that the people on this forum are not the average voter. People here tend to be far more informed than the average American.
Research, that I have seen, indicates that the average military education is above 75% of the national average.

That was supported when I witnessed a random poll of people on the street that were asked to identify top political people in the U.S.
The age appeared to be from 21 to about 40.
Most did not even know the name of the vice-president.
Many did not know the name of the president.
When asked about Rice one guy said "oh, thats the lady with the gap in her teeth;" he had no idea what her job was.
One guy, when given the hint that the presidents name started with George W. immediately said "oh, George Washington."

It was scary how uninformed many people are. I would suppose that when a person is uninformed, he/she would base their vote on emotion.

Paul, don't lose sight of the fact that many others convinced us of that including John Kerry and President Clinton.

Kerry did not have direct access to the 'proof' of WMD in Iraq, neither did Clinton. Bush however, was the president at the time. He was the one responsible for deciding to go to war with Iraq and for properly analyzing his information. How can you try to pin this on Clinton and Kerry??? They were fed the same lies that we were.

First off, there is this all consuming obsession by the Democrats over Iraq. They talk about practically nothing else, dammit. Of course, it IS about the only issue they can run on, Naturally the GOP would find it convenient if the voting public would just forget about Iraq for the next week or so Darth. It's just not that simple however. And by the way it was the main issue that got Bush re-elected, as the economy was in the crapper at that point. So Georgie W can't have it both ways. He has made his parachute and jumped.

I always knew it.. under that "wanting to be a working man" skin... Kerry is an elitist.. and anyone under him are potential pee-ons...

Here is Kerry's latest quote:

"You know, education, if you make the most of it, you study hard, you do your homework and you make an effort to be smart, you can do well. If you don't, you get stuck in Iraq."

........

So basically... if you do what Kerry did, you're a smart brave man!!! and if not.. you're a dumb fuck in Iraq!.. thats what i got out of it.
The first part was correct, if you study hard you can do well. The second part will not win Kerry favor, but it's not far off the mark. You don't have to be incredibly intelligent to go into the military - I don't care if that's harsh or not, it's true.

How is he being elitist? He was in the fucking military himself!

"This is the classic GOP playbook," Kerry said in a harshly worded statement. "I'm sick and tired of these despicable Republican attacks that always seem to come from those who never can be found to serve in war, but love to attack those who did. I'm not going to be lectured by a stuffed suit White House mouthpiece standing behind a podium."
Damn straight. I support that statement fully. It takes courage to go into the military in a time of war (read that - courage, not intelligence), and I admire that. The only battle that those critics in the White House have seen is on paper.

LOL.. um, i hate to break it to you Mr. Kerry.. but you got caught sir. What you said was DIRECTLY an insult to the troops... I dont know what else it could even be directed to...
If you're a 400 lbs fatass and I say that you're at risk for a heart attack because you're overweight, am I insulting you? No, I'm telling you the truth. Take it as an insult if you want.

And listen to this smokescreen Kerry is giving!!

He[Kerry] said he had been criticizing Bush, not the "heroes serving in Iraq," and said the president and his administration are the ones who owe U.S. troops an apology because they "misled America into war and have given us a Katrina foreign policy that has betrayed our ideals, killed and maimed our soldiers, and widened the terrorist threat instead of defeating it."
All true points, yet he is diverting the the issue and not responding to his original statement.

LMAO... why didnt Kerry throw in "gee, how bout the weather today?" along with his list of changes of subject. What a leach Kerry is, the guy has no spine, and slipped up and let us know how he really feels about things. People in Iraq are dumb fucks who "couldnt make it" in the education system... vote Kerry in 08!:thumbs:
You know what leach means right? Because your statement makes no sense there. Also, how does Kerry have no spine - where in those statements above is there anything remotely close to cowardice?

its no secret that if you want to stay out of a war you go to college, we have known that in this country for a long time. The problem with it is that up until this point the democrats have blasted republicans who didnt go to vietnam because they were in college as cowards and draft dodgers. Correct me if i am wrong, but wasnt vietnam "for nothing" too? Its just another case of wanting it all. Kerry calls cheney and rotehrs cowards for not dropping out of college and going to vietnam but tells college kids that if they dont want to get stuck in iraq to stay in college. Its just typical political doublespeak.

Being in Iraq is not a great experience for the individual from what I've heard - however, being in our military is a service to our country and it does take courage. I will still admire those people who served in Vietnam (my dad was among them, even though he disapproved of the war), yet if 'you make an effort to be smart, you can do well'.

There is nothing wrong with going to college to avoid the draft, but don't go criticising someone for talking about a war when they have been through it and you have not. I will lambaste those without military experience who criticise the remarks of a soldier regarding the military as a whole.

After studying his remarks I have to say that he has a point.
Look at it this way.
A career in the military is ok, and a secure job. Some of our most active posters are ex and even present personnel.
If you come from a poor disadvantaged area or family, maybe you arent lucky enough to go to college, like a lot of American kids, so, were do you turn to, The Armed Forces.
Now, how many kids would join up, knowing that there was a good chance of being shipped out to Iraq for a spell, not that many I would think, so looking at it from that perspective, Kerry makes sense.

The first part was correct, if you study hard you can do well. The second part will not win Kerry favor, but it's not far off the mark. You don't have to be incredibly intelligent to go into the military - I don't care if that's harsh or not, it's true.

The way it was worded... it says if you work hard and become educated, you can do well for yourself.. but if you DONT.. you "end up in Iraq".. so obviously all the people in Iraq DIDNT work hard and ARENT educated, at least to John Kerry.


How is he being elitist? He was in the fucking military himself!

That he was, then he married women with boatloads of money to support his wealthy living habits he has now. Liberals have ALWAYS had egos, they think the average american can't do ANYTHING on their own.. thats why they are so much for big government. But yet talking with Liberals, they seem to think they are above, and know more, than the average american. Kerry comes off to me as an egotistical elitist... swallowed in money, and now making the claim that you can do well for yourself if you do what HE did, but if you DONT do what he did your a piece of shit in Iraq... Thats what i got out of it.


Damn straight. I support that statement fully. It takes courage to go into the military in a time of war (read that - courage, not intelligence), and I admire that. The only battle that those critics in the White House have seen is on paper.

So then why is it so good to go to college now? John Kerry makes it out to be the best thing to do... isn't that "draft dodging"? or is it only that when republicans do it?


If you're a 400 lbs fatass and I say that you're at risk for a heart attack because you're overweight, am I insulting you? No, I'm telling you the truth. Take it as an insult if you want.

He's fully stereotyping.. he's saying if you're in Iraq you didnt work hard, arent educated, etc... I mean, i could come out and say black people steal things... i'd be called a racist. But hey its TRUE isnt it????

You know what leach means right? Because your statement makes no sense there. Also, how does Kerry have no spine - where in those statements above is there anything remotely close to cowardice?

He's claimed for so long to be for the troops.. and now is on record insulting them... I'd say that back stabbing is pretty "cowardice" if you ask me.

Tell me Decka, is it possible he chose his words poorly and was misunderstood, or does that only happen to you?
Well said Vile and I agree. Kerry is not especially quick on his feet and often comes across poorly when speaking off the cuff. That was meant to be a jab at Georgie W and his C average, not at our soldiers in Iraq. He made a similar gaffe in the days before the 2004 election when he outed Cheney's daughter as a lesbian but did it in a rather clumsy and mean-spirited way. Kerry was making a move in the polls at the time and that stopped him cold. I honestly believe that cost him a state or two, and as as it turned out he needed those.....

Kerry is reaching the end of the line on the national stage and it should be up to another Dem to step in and say something to clarify the situation and keep the pressure on. Let's face it, we are still "stuck in Iraq" and the situation is getting worse.

Being in Iraq is not a great experience for the individual from what I've heard - however, being in our military is a service to our country and it does take courage. I will still admire those people who served in Vietnam (my dad was among them, even though he disapproved of the war), yet if 'you make an effort to be smart, you can do well'.

There is nothing wrong with going to college to avoid the draft, but don't go criticising someone for talking about a war when they have been through it and you have not. I will lambaste those without military experience who criticise the remarks of a soldier regarding the military as a whole.

what are you talking about? I spent more time in combat zones then kerry ever did.

Being in Iraq is not a great experience for the individual from what I've heard - however, being in our military is a service to our country and it does take courage. I will still admire those people who served in Vietnam (my dad was among them, even though he disapproved of the war), yet if 'you make an effort to be smart, you can do well'.

So how is serving in Vietnam better than serving in Iraq?

There is nothing wrong with going to college to avoid the draft, but don't go criticising someone for talking about a war when they have been through it and you have not. I will lambaste those without military experience who criticise the remarks of a soldier regarding the military as a whole.

But Kerry said that if you're "stuck in iraq" you DIDNT do well for yourself.. ARENT educated, and DIDNT try hard? Why would people like this have credibility over me?.. someone who HASN'T served. I say you should seperate yourself from that idiot kerry.

The way it was worded... it says if you work hard and become educated, you can do well for yourself.. but if you DONT.. you "end up in Iraq".. so obviously all the people in Iraq DIDNT work hard and ARENT educated, at least to John Kerry.
Lets go over some basic logic:

If you work hard and educate yourself you can do well, if you don't you end up in Iraq. That does not mean that ALL the educated people did not choose to go into the military - it just means that if you are not educated you get stuck there (which obviously was not meant to be taken literally, since there are other jobs for uneducated people as well). So educated people can be in Iraq, meaning that only some of the people in Iraq didn't work hard in school or do not have a good education.

That he was, then he married women with boatloads of money to support his wealthy living habits he has now. Liberals have ALWAYS had egos, they think the average american can't do ANYTHING on their own.. thats why they are so much for big government. But yet talking with Liberals, they seem to think they are above, and know more, than the average american. Kerry comes off to me as an egotistical elitist... swallowed in money, and now making the claim that you can do well for yourself if you do what HE did, but if you DONT do what he did your a piece of shit in Iraq... Thats what i got out of it.
You called him an elitist in response to the article, now stop bringing in new crap and tell me what in the article makes him an elitist. (btw, marrying a rich person doesn't make you elitist)

Stop catagorizing without backing your statements up.

All politicians have a lot of money, thats nothing new. Also, he said you can do well if you study and educate yourself. He did not say "do what I did". If he was saying that, then he would be telling people to go join the military.

So then why is it so good to go to college now? John Kerry makes it out to be the best thing to do... isn't that "draft dodging"? or is it only that when republicans do it? Read Post #50

He's fully stereotyping.. he's saying if you're in Iraq you didnt work hard, arent educated, etc... I mean, i could come out and say black people steal things... i'd be called a racist. But hey its TRUE isnt it????
You're putting words in his mouth. Use his quotes if you want, but don't exaggerate them to make a claim.

The top of this post covers that - his statement does not say that all people in Iraq are uneducated or did not work hard.

He's claimed for so long to be for the troops.. and now is on record insulting them... I'd say that back stabbing is pretty "cowardice" if you ask me.
He is not insulting them, and the statement he made is pretty damn accurate.

1. Educate yourself and you will not need to go into the military
2. The military does not have high intelligence requirements
3. You can join still the military if you did not work hard in school.

Are any of those points incorrect?

what are you talking about? I spent more time in combat zones then kerry ever did.
I know - You did a service to our country, and I will treat your criticisms with more merit than those of someone in the Whitehouse who has not served at all.

So how is serving in Vietnam better than serving in Iraq?
It's not
But Kerry said that if you're "stuck in iraq" you DIDNT do well for yourself.. ARENT educated, and DIDNT try hard?
No he didn't. If you going off what he implied, then do it correctly. He implied that SOME of the people in Iraq did not get a good education or didn't work hard in school.

Why would people like this have credibility over me?.. someone who HASN'T served. I say you should seperate yourself from that idiot kerry.

I give someone more credit in their statements if they have more experience.

I do not attach myself to a person - I support their statements and stances, and if they change them, then my support for them changes as well. Currently I support most of what Kerry stands for, except for his stances on some of his business practices.

I've never seen anyone do a political "smoke out" in backpedaling like Mr Kerry has done in the past 24 hours. His ass is doing double overtime sucking so hard pulling him back, it's the real reason he's spewing so much shit.

Well, I never expected Kerry to run again, but that statement isn't going to help at all.

He's claimed for so long to be for the troops.. and now is on record insulting them...

No Decka, he's on record saying something you choose to interpret as an insult to the troops.

Unfortunately, your conclusion flies in the face of logic and common sense. Kerry has nothing to gain, and everything to lose, by standing up on national TV and insulting the troops. Kerry certainly would be aware of the consequences of such a statement. Why would he do such a thing? The only answer that makes any sense is that he made a mistake. He mispoke, or his intent was misinterpreted due to a poor choice of words. To suggest he said it because he's an "elitist" or because he "finally revealed how he really feels" is absurd, and reminiscent of the worst bilge Rush Limbaugh spews daily. As a matter of fact, your entire position is merely a regurgitation of his line on this whole affair.

You of all people should know how a poor choice of words can be misinterpreted Decka. You claimed it happened to you just days ago in another thread. I'd also point out that your statement, that you claim was misinterpreted, was less ambiguous than Kerry's, and I'll also point out that Kerry has apologized for using words that could be misinterpreted and admitted he made a mistake. I guess that makes him a better man than you. ;-)

Poor choice of words? Give me a break. The satement came from a career politician, a seemingly well educated gentleman, a well acomplished public speaker. Are we to believe that he simply made a mistake? I don't buy it. I read one article where he's reported to have done that same "joke" some 100 times and this is the only time it's really bombed?

...this issue should be above party politics....Zounds!!!Are you saying Bush shouldn't be compared to Hitler?

The media is saying that Kerry's comments may cost the democrats control of the house. How dumb is that? ....The GOP will lose the house because they ....have no problems protecting child molesters.I agree that this shouldn't be held against other Dems. But it's strains credulity that in your next sentence you bring up Foley which is the Dem attempt to sink Republicans the same way: with a subjective re-telling of an incident.
If you were being funny on purpose then that was actually pretty clever.

The Dems have to learn to live by the sword, die by the sword.

Poor choice of words? Give me a break. The satement came from a career politician, a seemingly well educated gentleman, a well acomplished public speaker.

Everybody misspeaks occasionally, even the President. ;-)


Are we to believe that he simply made a mistake?

It makes more sense than believing he deliberately committed political suicide.


I don't buy it. I read one article where he's reported to have done that same "joke" some 100 times and this is the only time it's really bombed?

Ok...what was his motive for, as you seem to be suggesting he did, deliberately insulting the troops?

Zounds!!!Are you saying Bush shouldn't be compared to Hitler?
Im not sure if he should or not,whats your opinion.

John Kerry has admitted he made a mistake and that he misspoke. Unlike the current Administration, John Kerry can actually admit when he has made a mistake.

Not to mention the fact that John Kerry was in the military. Even if he was drafted, I think one can conclude John Kerry has more respect for the military then most since he was in the military.

Theres a good test case for this 'Kerrygate' next Tuesday.
I suggest all you blind Republicans who refuse to see the wood for the trees should turn your attention to the State of Illinois.
Tammy Duckworth.
Ex US Army Major, ex Iraq Veteran, wounded in Action, 'very severely' as true an American as anyone else, will be standing as the Democratic nominee for the house, a stern critic of the Governments handling of the Iraq war, in a ward which has been Republican for 30 years, if she wins, chances are it will be a protest vote by Republican voters, but a good barometer nationally.

1. Wasn't it about weapons of mass destruction? If I remember right that is what the Bush administration was selling at that time.
2. Really! You a recruiter or just have the final say on who gets in?
1. If I remember right, everyone was saying it at the time, including some who later bravely criticized the president for it.
2. No I'm not but the military, like any organization, would function best with those who are open minded, make an effort to get along with understand other individuals.

The way it was worded... it says if you work hard and become educated, you can do well for yourself.. but if you DONT.. you "end up in Iraq".. so obviously all the people in Iraq DIDNT work hard and ARENT educated, at least to John Kerry.

Its not that they didn't work hard, its that they had less options. In general I would say that most people wouldn't want to "end up in Iraq". While its great for those who want to do it, and those are VERY brave people, but the fact is that most of us would rather pursue another career. I'm sure many people who had a great college opportunity and career possibilities ahead of them would not turn it down to go to Iraq instead.


He's fully stereotyping.. he's saying if you're in Iraq you didnt work hard, arent educated, etc... I mean, i could come out and say black people steal things... i'd be called a racist. But hey its TRUE isnt it????


He's claimed for so long to be for the troops.. and now is on record insulting them... I'd say that back stabbing is pretty "cowardice" if you ask me.

Yes, he is stereotyping. I'm not sure if he intended to insult the troops or just Bush. If he was saying the troops are less educated, then he should appologize. If he just mis-spoke, then he could applogize for offending them, but that kind of appology would just be to save his ass and I've never been a fan of that kind of appology.

Your comment about black people stealling things is interesting because this reminds me of that comment the guy made last year. I forget his name, but he was making a point against abortion and he said something like "you could make the argument that aborting all black babies would reduce the crime rate". I remember many of you conservatives making the argument that "if its a true statement, why isn't it OK to say? Even if its a generalization, its PC nonsense to say he should appologize just because someone is offended by the truth". That guy insinuited blacks commit more crime and Kerry appears to have insinuated that less educated people generally turn to the military. Both might be true, but I don't see the point in making those comments because they are insulting.

Kerry did not have direct access to the 'proof' of WMD in Iraq, neither did Clinton. How can you try to pin this on Clinton and Kerry??? They were fed the same lies that we were.President Clinton made the claim while he was president. And don't think for a minute that his pipeline to the top didn't continue after he left office.
And the only thing I'm "pinning" on Messers. Kerry and Clinton is that they made the same claims. Is that wrong?

....as the economy was in the crapper at that point. So Georgie W can't have it both ways. Here's how the Dems have it both ways. When the economy is doing well, no one (the media that is) is talking about it.

Poor choice of words? Give me a break. The satement came from a career politician, a seemingly well educated gentleman, a well acomplished public speaker. Are we to believe that he simply made a mistake? I don't buy it. I read one article where he's reported to have done that same "joke" some 100 times and this is the only time it's really bombed?I'm still waiting for this to make sense. If he'd said the same thing a hundred times how come we've never heard about it before? I think what he did a hundred times before is take a jab at Bush that this time went awry. That said I hope this spells the end of his presidential aspirations. He's a lousy candidate.

....so looking at it from that perspective, Kerry makes sense.So you're acknowledging that he did mean it as a joke about soldiers. He denies that.

Definatly not Presidential material.Unfortunatly I cant see who is, anybody got any suggestions, drop the party bit for a minute, whod make a good Pres.

So you're acknowledging that he did mean it as a joke about soldiers. He denies that.
Yea Id say it was partially a soldier joke,why not,he used to be one,soldiers make joke about soldiers all the time,I think he really meant what I said earlier,
Kids join the military for a career, not to be shipped out to some third world x on the map,risk their lives for pure political gain, for a cowboy from Texas,if he'd said it that way,there wouldnt have been so much milking of it by the extremeists.
He'll never work at after dinner speeches after this again either.

The way it was worded... it says if you work hard and become educated, you can do well for yourself.. but if you DONT.. you "end up in Iraq".. so obviously all the people in Iraq DIDNT work hard and ARENT educated, at least to John Kerry.


That he was, then he married women with boatloads of money to support his wealthy living habits he has now. Liberals have ALWAYS had egos, they think the average american can't do ANYTHING on their own.. thats why they are so much for big government. But yet talking with Liberals, they seem to think they are above, and know more, than the average american. Kerry comes off to me as an egotistical elitist... swallowed in money, and now making the claim that you can do well for yourself if you do what HE did, but if you DONT do what he did your a piece of shit in Iraq... Thats what i got out of it.


So then why is it so good to go to college now? John Kerry makes it out to be the best thing to do... isn't that "draft dodging"? or is it only that when republicans do it?


He's fully stereotyping.. he's saying if you're in Iraq you didnt work hard, arent educated, etc... I mean, i could come out and say black people steal things... i'd be called a racist. But hey its TRUE isnt it????


He's claimed for so long to be for the troops.. and now is on record insulting them... I'd say that back stabbing is pretty "cowardice" if you ask me.

WOW! You can really read between the lines and put words in Kerry's mouth.

No he didn't. If you going off what he implied, then do it correctly. He implied that SOME of the people in Iraq did not get a good education or didn't work hard in school.

I'm sorry.. i didnt hear the word "some" in the quote Kerry said...

He made it BLACK AND WHITE.. its either you:

A: work hard for yourself, get an education, be successful

or

B: end up in Iraq

I'm guessing those Iraq soldiers feel just great about John Kerry right now.. In that quote.. Kerry makes iraqi soldiers sound like pee-ons who couldnt "make it" in the Kerry world.. oh yea, i forgot, John Kerry married into wealth... he didnt even earn it.

No Decka, he's on record saying something you choose to interpret as an insult to the troops.

Unfortunately, your conclusion flies in the face of logic and common sense. Kerry has nothing to gain, and everything to lose, by standing up on national TV and insulting the troops. Kerry certainly would be aware of the consequences of such a statement. Why would he do such a thing? The only answer that makes any sense is that he made a mistake. He mispoke, or his intent was misinterpreted due to a poor choice of words. To suggest he said it because he's an "elitist" or because he "finally revealed how he really feels" is absurd, and reminiscent of the worst bilge Rush Limbaugh spews daily. As a matter of fact, your entire position is merely a regurgitation of his line on this whole affair.

I wouldnt be so sure Pagan.. Kerry is a professional.. he might have "misspoke", he might have said something he now regrets, but in today's world of politics, and in today's media.. politicians are HOUNDED and BURNED for saying things.. and even if they come out and apologize.. that JUST DOESNT MATTER.. so Kerry should get the same treatment i say. I mean, Rush apologized to Micheal J Fox for part of their disagreement.. but gee that doesnt put Rush off the handle now does it? AND its not in the front page media either...

So yea i think while Kerry no doubt regrets saying what he said, i also think it fits with his attitude and political stances... he is wealthy, he is educated.. and the hard working, uneducated, working class people of america are below where he is at...

thats how he comes off to me.

I heard people sounding off on local radio stations in cleveland saying that Kerry did in fact insult every hard-working, uneducated person in america... i mean, Kerry REALLY used the wrong choice of words.. he f'd up.. and i say his painful, blabbering, shady, side-switching joke of a political career should be over... i mean.. ONLY IN MASSACHUSETTS can guys like Kerry and Ted Kennedy get re-elected year after year.



You of all people should know how a poor choice of words can be misinterpreted Decka. You claimed it happened to you just days ago in another thread. I'd also point out that your statement, that you claim was misinterpreted, was less ambiguous than Kerry's, and I'll also point out that Kerry has apologized for using words that could be misinterpreted and admitted he made a mistake. I guess that makes him a better man than you. ;-)

First off.. about Kerry: He sure had a "change of stance" once again.. big suprise. One day he's saying "i'll give no apology".. and then the next day he's apologizing. Is Kerry even a man? Or is he what a room full of image-consultants say he is? Why can't Kerry stand up and say how he really feels? And not how polls tell him how to feel?

Now on to me... Its ironic of course that i'm saying someone had a poor choice of words when yes i myself had an instance. The thing is.. in my case, you had to assume i was putting more meaning into the word "vile" than just the word itself means. In other words.. by me merely saying the world "vile".. it meant reference to vilepagan, even though the word "vile" IS a word that can be used to describe what went on in Webb's book... so you can see WHY there was a mix up there...

I didnt realize anything until vilepagan responded saying i insulted him.. i had to ask him where. I have no hard feelings toward pagan, i enjoy his opposing opinion on just about everything, and i apologize IF he interpreted it that way.. but thats not how it was written.

As for Kerry.. he put it in black and white...

I don't understand the "but he was in the military" defense. That never stopped him from criticizing the soldiers in the past.
If this was an accident on his part, he is in the unfortunate position of having made nasty comments in the past which has cost him the benefit-of-the-doubt in this case.

Kids join the military for a career, not to be shipped out to some third world x on the map,I think you underestimate the dedication of US soldiers. Many who are fighting now joined after September 11th - what does that tell you about their expectations?

Maybe many did join after 11 September, but I can say this for sure,none of them, not one joined to go on some wild goose chase in Iraq, they all should have been in Afghanistan.

Maybe many did join after 11 September, but I can say this for sure,none of them, not one joined to go on some wild goose chase in Iraq, they all should have been in Afghanistan.
I think the point is that when they join they are willing to go wherever they are told to go.
And since the war started the retention rate is higher than they expected and recruitment goals are being met.
I really think you underestimate them.

http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v281/queun/irak1.jpg

So yea i think while Kerry no doubt regrets saying what he said, i also think it fits with his attitude and political stances... he is wealthy, he is educated.. and the hard working, uneducated, working class people of america are below where he is at...

thats how he comes off to me.

That's how you saw him before he made his statement and therefore you read his statement as a confirmation of your beliefs.


I heard people sounding off on local radio stations in cleveland saying that Kerry did in fact insult every hard-working, uneducated person in america...

No doubt these people were some of the uneducated ones.


i mean, Kerry REALLY used the wrong choice of words.. he f'd up.. and i say his painful, blabbering, shady, side-switching joke of a political career should be over... i mean.. ONLY IN MASSACHUSETTS can guys like Kerry and Ted Kennedy get re-elected year after year.

Not exactly an objective opinion.


First off.. about Kerry: He sure had a "change of stance" once again.. big suprise. One day he's saying "i'll give no apology".. and then the next day he's apologizing. Is Kerry even a man? Or is he what a room full of image-consultants say he is? Why can't Kerry stand up and say how he really feels? And not how polls tell him how to feel?

I'm thinking the Democratic Party put his testicles in a vise, and every Democratic Senate candidate was invited to turn the screw.


As for Kerry.. he put it in black and white...

Actually Decka, you have no sure idea who he was referring to in his statement...you just want very badly to believe that he meant to insult the troops so you can dislike him even more.

Tell me Decka, if he wanted to insult them, why didn't he just come out and say they were fools to join the military, or that only dumbasses join up, or something less ambiguous?

That was meant to be a jab at Georgie W and his C average,

That's quite possible, but you'd think someone with a C average from the same school would avoid jabs like that.

I think the point is that when they join they are willing to go wherever they are told to go.
And since the war started the retention rate is higher than they expected and recruitment goals are being met.
I really think you underestimate them.

I talked to a soldier yesterday that is trying to get a larger re-enlistment bonus, but is having trouble, according to him, because the enlistment numbers are so high.

Actually Decka, you have no sure idea who he was referring to in his statement...you just want very badly to believe that he meant to insult the troops so you can dislike him even more.



Sounds like Decka wants the troops to be insulted for political gain.

I think this whole thing is ridiculous. Like the rest of us, politicians sometimes say dumb things that they don't really mean (George Allen's "macaca" incident comes to mind). Such comments don't by any means show a person's "true colors," and it's absurd how they're exploited for political gain.

It's interesting though that the people who find Kerry's comments "insulting" are the same ones who would claim that others are too easily "offended".

It's interesting though that the people who find Kerry's comments "insulting" are the same ones who would claim that others are too easily "offended".

Ironic isn't it?

They're also the ones that can't possibly come up with an explanation of why Kerry would deliberately insult the troops, yet they are equally certain that that's exactly what he did.

Ironic isn't it?

They're also the ones that can't possibly come up with an explanation of why Kerry would deliberately insult the troops, yet they are equally certain that that's exactly what he did.

Vile, they could be going back to the days when he threw his medals away.
Many people interpreted his speeches, and association with the VVAW and Jane Fonda in those days, as being anti-military.

I guess what I'm reading is that he attempted to tailor a joke to the audience at hand without thinking it completly through, or saying it out loud even once before hand. So Kerry flubs a jab and we should have his writers horsewhipped?

I guess what I'm reading is that he attempted to tailor a joke to the audience at hand without thinking it completly through, or saying it out loud even once before hand. So Kerry flubs a jab and we should have his writers horsewhipped?

Never, when looking up the word 'truth' in the dictionary, have I seen the picture of a politician next to the definition.

That's how you saw him before he made his statement and therefore you read his statement as a confirmation of your beliefs.

probably because i've had alot to go off of...


No doubt these people were some of the uneducated ones.

Oh so anyone who disagrees or brings something that you disagree with is "uneducated"?

I think it is a stretch to say Kerry insulted all hardworking people without college degrees.. but then again, i think every bleeding-heart liberal soccer mom who sues anyone who comes within 500 feet of her son is a "stretch" as well.. but those people are allowed to do what they do.

Why don't you let people have opinions pagan? why do they have to be "uneducated"?


Not exactly an objective opinion.

nor are any of yours:rolleyes:



I'm thinking the Democratic Party put his testicles in a vise, and every Democratic Senate candidate was invited to turn the screw.

Well then Kerry should retire, because its obviously not him anyone is voting for.


Actually Decka, you have no sure idea who he was referring to in his statement...you just want very badly to believe that he meant to insult the troops so you can dislike him even more.

Tell me Decka, if he wanted to insult them, why didn't he just come out and say they were fools to join the military, or that only dumbasses join up, or something less ambiguous?

Because he's a politician... are you dumb enough to think that a guy like kerry, someone who people have built up with millions of image-heavy dollars, would throw it all away by saying everyone who joined the military is a dumbass? He said what he said... and it IS an insult if I have ever seen one.. and now we have people like you drinking Kerry coolaid and giving him every benefit of the doubt, and meanwhile any hint of Bush wrongdoing is hounded and scolded...

Dont change the subject and ask why Kerry didn't take it to the extreme.. he doesnt have to.. he already fucked up.. and yet you wont even realize it.

I dont need to "very badly beleive" that this was an insult.. it is pretty obvious what it was. Its like Lebron James having a bad game and saying "well, i can eat right, try hard, and do the best for myself.. or i can average 5 points a game".... isn't that an "insult" to people who average 5 points a game? And remember, points arent everything in the NBA, Ben Wallace averages 5 points a game and is a freakin all star...

im just curious

President Clinton made the claim while he was president. And don't think for a minute that his pipeline to the top didn't continue after he left office.
He made the claim, OK. Did he say that he had proof? Or that he had enough evidence to go to war? Did he go to war? No he didn't, and that goes to show that he didn't feel that we had enough evidence that Iraq had WMD.

And the only thing I'm "pinning" on Messers. Kerry and Clinton is that they made the same claims. Is that wrong? Your trying to place the blame on them for convincing the public that Iraq had WMD. They did not claim to have proof. If they believed what Bush said, that is not their fault (unless you claim that they shouldn't even believe Bush to begin with) that they supported the war originally - it would be the correct thing to do if we DID have proof that Iraq had WMD.

I'm sorry.. i didnt hear the word "some" in the quote Kerry said...

He made it BLACK AND WHITE.. its either you:

A: work hard for yourself, get an education, be successful

or

B: end up in Iraq

Dammit, use logic here. He does not say 'or'. He does not say that smart people do NOT go into Iraq. You can educate yourself and still go to Iraq - this is not that hard. You're just reading into it to hear what you want to hear.

I'm guessing those Iraq soldiers feel just great about John Kerry right now.. In that quote.. Kerry makes iraqi soldiers sound like pee-ons who couldnt "make it" in the Kerry world.. oh yea, i forgot, John Kerry married into wealth... he didnt even earn it.
He said a statement to make a point against Bush, and obviously he did not intend to mean that if your in Iraq that you're stupid. I'm not trying to say that this was a profound statement or anything of the sort - Kerry definitely made a mistake saying that, yet you along with others on here are attacking it as if he said "I like to eat babies".

He made the claim, OK. Did he say that he had proof? Or that he had enough evidence to go to war? Did he go to war? No he didn't, and that goes to show that he didn't feel that we had enough evidence that Iraq had WMD.

One loosly applied discription by Wikipedia of a weapon of mass destruction is a biological agent that indiscriminately kills large numbers of humans.
Could it be that Saddam Hussein fits that discription since he is a biological being that killed thousands of his people?
Maybe he was the WMD they sought to remove. In that case it was a success. :thumbs:

probably because i've had alot to go off of...

Ok, at least you admit that you're biased when it comes to John Kerry.


Oh so anyone who disagrees or brings something that you disagree with is "uneducated"?

No, just those who make statements like "...Kerry did in fact insult every hard-working, uneducated person in america..."

Brilliant logic on your part btw.


I think it is a stretch to say Kerry insulted all hardworking people without college degrees..

A stretch? Yeah.


but then again, i think every bleeding-heart liberal soccer mom who sues anyone who comes within 500 feet of her son is a "stretch" as well.. but those people are allowed to do what they do.

What are you talking about?


Why don't you let people have opinions pagan? why do they have to be "uneducated"?

Why don't you try being coherent?


nor are any of yours:rolleyes:

Egad, what a scathing riposte.


Because he's a politician... are you dumb enough to think that a guy like kerry, someone who people have built up with millions of image-heavy dollars, would throw it all away by saying everyone who joined the military is a dumbass?

No, but apparently you are, that's your position not mine. I don't think he intentionally insulted anyone. I think many people were insulted because he misspoke, but he's apologized for it and I think that's fine.


He said what he said... and it IS an insult if I have ever seen one..

See above.


and now we have people like you drinking Kerry coolaid and giving him every benefit of the doubt, and meanwhile any hint of Bush wrongdoing is hounded and scolded...

I'm just giving Kerry the same "benefit of the doubt" that I gave you.


Dont change the subject and ask why Kerry didn't take it to the extreme.. he doesnt have to.. he already fucked up.. and yet you wont even realize it.

I wasn't changing the subject Decka, I was just asking a question that undermines your contention that he deliberately insulted the troops. Since you can't answer the question I'll assume it's because your position is erroneous.


I dont need to "very badly beleive" that this was an insult.. it is pretty obvious what it was.

Of course it's obvious to you because of your admitted bias against Kerry.


Its like Lebron James having a bad game and saying "well, i can eat right, try hard, and do the best for myself.. or i can average 5 points a game".... isn't that an "insult" to people who average 5 points a game? And remember, points arent everything in the NBA, Ben Wallace averages 5 points a game and is a freakin all star...

And you accuse me of changing the subject? What are you babbling about now?


im just curious

About what?

kudos to the troops taht made that sign. Hilarious.

However its no secret that the military preys on poor kids and those who feel that can't do college.

He made the claim, OK. Did he say that he had proof?
Did he go to war? No he didn't, and that goes to show that he didn't feel that we had enough evidence that Iraq had WMD.
Please Wip please. The only thing missing here is "huh, huh, huh?"
The fact that President Clinton took no action is no proof of what he believed to be true or proven.

The fact that President Clinton took no action is no proof of what he believed to be true or proven.
I just want to make sure that I'm on the same page - you believe that Clinton did not invade Iraq because he believed that Iraq had WMDs or nuclear capabilities?