It seems that the popular topic on message boards these days is how much the USA is screwed up and how badly the entire world hates us. I'm getting sick and tired of it. Now usually I try to turn a deaf ear but it's getting pretty annoying and disrespectful.

Sure this country has made some pretty bad choices regarding foreign policy, and yes Vietnam was probably the worst. It's also made some very bad and even unconstitutional choices domestically such as the McCarthy trials, detaining the Japanese - Americans during WWII, etc. I will not and cannot dispute this. However, every country makes mistakes, and of course the most influential country in the world is going to make some major ones, because we have so much international responsibility due to being a superpower. Everyone in the world wants the United States to unconditionally aid them and follow their policies, regardless of what self-interest the US must consider. First and foremost we must consider what is important in maintaining our own interests and security, and then we can start working with other countries.

Iraq was not a mistake, regardless of whatever reason you believe we invaded it. If it was driven by oil, then we removed a powerful economical resource from a monster of a tirant who has consistantly misused his power and wronged his people. If you think America is trying to expand its "empire"... well that empire consists of democracy, freedom, and prosperity, three things Iraq will undoubtably benifit from. If you think that Bush used the WMD as a smokescreen, and there wern't any WMD in the first place, you're simply wrong. We know Iraq had them because Suddam has use biochemical weapons in the past. You wonder why we havn't found any yet? Wouldn't you do your best to hide or move them once it was obvious that the United States was pissed about your constant non-compliance with UN inspections (something the UN would not even challance)? This was obvious a long time before the actual invasion, which was postponed due to BS diplomacy with countries who wouldn't even play a major role in the war.

Don't think that I am pro-war in absolutely any situation. I'm not. But I certainly believe that it it justified in certain times of need, and I'm not ashamed to stand behind the use of force to achieve certain goals.

Now to get down to the point about the world not supporting out decisions. First of all, they don't have to. They have a right to be angry at us for whatever, from our foreign policy to our environmental issues to the cancellation of Baywatch internationally.

I simply have one thing to say to everyone who denounces our use of force for whatever reason. If the United States practiced passivism and isolationism (such as before WWI) throughout the last century, then many of the countries that denounce our methods (esp. you France) may still be denouncing them, but they would be doing so in German right after they finished saluting the Swastika. Well, everyone of course but the Jews, who would be pretty much non-existance. Most or all of Europe would now be part of the German empire, and I don't see how anyone could deny that. The point is that, regardless of how much you dispise its methods, America has benifited this world and war has been necessary.

I'll leave you with a joke my friend told me a few months ago that I think is fitting following my last statement. "How many Frenchmen does it take to defent Paris? No one knows, because it's never been tried."

-Jonathan

Bravo!!!!

Now to remove it... piece by piece... :D

I will not and cannot dispute this.
At least we are clear on the past.

Everyone in the world wants the United States to unconditionally aid them and follow their policies, regardless of what self-interest the US must consider.
Sorry, but the general consensus of the planet wants you AWAY, not helping. Your "helping" isn't that much help, you promise things. And they never get done. Then your "helping" foriegn policices are generally shit. The US would throw sanctions on countries like crazy, thinking it helped the people and destroyed the government. It destroyed the people and didn't do anything to the government. You claim to send kits for health in third world countries, but usually don't. The ones that help(a little bit) are private institutions. We don't hate them, we hate the lying government.

First and foremost we must consider what is important in maintaining our own interests and security, and then we can start working with other countries.
We are on agreement here too. But you see, your government doesn't really care about domestic issues, it costs too much money. War makes money.

If it was driven by oil, then we removed a powerful economical resource from a monster of a tirant who has consistantly misused his power and wronged his people.
Now it is into the hands of an equal(mabee worse) tyrant, the oil corporations. Shell has COUNTLESS accounts of destroying the enviroment. Exxon/Mobile does also. Guess who has the power now? Oh, and wonderful little Ascroft's company, and his little war he staged with mercinaries in Russia.

If you think America is trying to expand its "empire"... well that empire consists of democracy, freedom, and prosperity, three things Iraq will undoubtably benifit from.
It's not a democracy. It's a Federal Republic. Based off of Plato's Republic more than a democratic one. And Plato's Republic is a shared dictatorship. Freedom? LOL! Freedom is a lie, it's all in your mind. The largest example I often give, the Patriot Act.

If you think that Bush used the WMD as a smokescreen, and there wern't any WMD in the first place, you're simply wrong. We know Iraq had them because Suddam has use biochemical weapons in the past.
That was in the PAST. Back in the first Gulf War? The media has been putting out that after the first Gulf War, inspectors didn't watch them get destroyed, they did. They also tried to say that inspectors haven't been back in since then. They've been going in every damn year. It's not like they scrambled to get in there and look right before the war, they were in there for the past 10 years.

Ok, now into the prospect of you MORONS insulting the French PEOPLE. Don't lay your dirty fingers on the people, they are possibly the bravest on the planet, the GOVERNMENT is bullshit. France has never had a good government. Ok, now to destroy moronic predjudices. WW1, didn't need our help, they had been holding the line for years. WW2, the French resistance was more damaging to the Nazi's than anything we could possibly have done. D-Day would have been fucked if it wasn't for French and British spies. I'd like to see you live under the Nazi's and still manage to stand up. D-Day didn't destroy the Nazis, contrary to popular belief. Russia took them down on the Eastern front, and France and Britain on the Western. The US just supplied soldiers and weapons to the British. Russia took down Berlin before the US were close. US didn't do much of anything for the European front, Asian, that's a different story. So, I do deny the fact that Europe would be under Germany.

"How many Frenchmen does it take to defent Paris? No one knows, because it's never been tried."
The largest force the Prussians and French could muster. This being the 1840s and the French-Prussian war. Paris was held by the Paris-Commune, and it took a very large army to take it down. Even when the people had very little arms. On the case of the German-French border, about a couple of hours.

Very well said, Jonathan.

Thanks, Jonathan

OH COME ON! I completely tore it to pieces! And you still congratulate him?

Complete tore it to pieces? Your argument looks weak to me. I'm not interested in sitting here and typing every bit of misinformation you presented, Mr. Blibb, but if you think the Iraqi government took better care of the environment than Shell, you are sadly mistaken and, more likely, simply ignorant on the subject.

We are on agreement here too. But you see, your government doesn't really care about domestic issues, it costs too much money. War makes money.

Even though certain domestic issues are neglected, people in this country still have the best living conditions in the world (IMO)


It's not a democracy. It's a Federal Republic. Based off of Plato's Republic more than a democratic one. And Plato's Republic is a shared dictatorship. Freedom? LOL! Freedom is a lie, it's all in your mind. The largest example I often give, the Patriot Act.

Freedom is not in my mind. Do I not have the freedom to say what I want? To own a gun? To jury by trial? To vote for my representatives? Etc, etc. I agree that the Patriot Act is unconstitutional and should have never been invoked. It was a mistake, but what government doesn't make mistakes in situations such as the one we're in?


That was in the PAST. Back in the first Gulf War? The media has been putting out that after the first Gulf War, inspectors didn't watch them get destroyed, they did. They also tried to say that inspectors haven't been back in since then. They've been going in every damn year. It's not like they scrambled to get in there and look right before the war, they were in there for the past 10 years.

-And for the last ten years, hasn't Suddam constantly been violating the weapons inspection treaty? We should have taken action then, but BS appeasement diplomacy held us back, and finally this year the greatest country in the world took action.

Ok, now into the prospect of you MORONS insulting the French PEOPLE. Don't lay your dirty fingers on the people, they are possibly the bravest on the planet, the GOVERNMENT is bullshit. France has never had a good government. Ok, now to destroy moronic predjudices. WW1, didn't need our help, they had been holding the line for years. WW2, the French resistance was more damaging to the Nazi's than anything we could possibly have done. D-Day would have been fucked if it wasn't for French and British spies. I'd like to see you live under the Nazi's and still manage to stand up. D-Day didn't destroy the Nazis, contrary to popular belief. Russia took them down on the Eastern front, and France and Britain on the Western. The US just supplied soldiers and weapons to the British. Russia took down Berlin before the US were close. US didn't do much of anything for the European front, Asian, that's a different story. So, I do deny the fact that Europe would be under Germany.

Please don't make me laugh so hard, I just got off work and my muscles are soar anyway. French and brave cannot even been placed in the same sentance...unless of course you insert "are sure as hell no" in-between the two words! "They had been holding the line for years". You're right, and I'm sure all the soldiers holding the line enjoyed sitting in those trenches during that stalemate. The only way to win a war is to move the lines forward, and that's where the US came in. "French resistance was more damaging to the Nazi's than anything we could possibly have done". And is that why the entire country was siezed by the Nazi's? " You're certainly right that D-Day wouldn't have been "fucked" if it wern't for the French...simply because it never would have had to happened if the French could defend their own damn country! "The US just supplied soldiers and weapons to the British." No. The US took over command of pretty much all the soldiers on the Western Front, and that's why we won the war. "So, I do deny the fact that Europe would be under Germany". And I ask, who's the moron here. Germany controlled the entire country of France, as well as a few others, and the only country remaining with the willingness and ability to fight them was Britain, which I'm sorry to say would not have stood a chance without US aid. They never would have made it off their island (not that this is their fault, they simply didn't have the resources). Russia didn't care about France, it was only fighting Germany because Hitler stabbed them in the back. Russia had made a deal with Hitler prior to the war to devide up the conquered land.


It comes down to this. No other country in the world has the military intelligence or ability that the US has. The US actually learns from previous battles, and adapts to changing times. WWII happened partly because of the policy of appeasement regarding Hitler's violations of WWI treaties. They let him become too powerful? Sound familiar? It should, and a four letter world should jar your memory. Iraq. Suddam was violating the weapon inspection aggreements and it's safe to assume that the only logical reason he would do so would be to start creating WMDs. The US new we had to act soon or face the consequences of another Hitler.

-Jonathan

Even though certain domestic issues are neglected, people in this country still have the best living conditions in the world (IMO)
Not quite. Many starving people in this country live worse lives than the starving of third world countries. Why, because the cost of living is so much higher, and welfare has hit an alltime low.

Freedom is not in my mind. Do I not have the freedom to say what I want? To own a gun? To jury by trial? To vote for my representatives? Etc, etc. I agree that the Patriot Act is unconstitutional and should have never been invoked. It was a mistake, but what government doesn't make mistakes in situations such as the one we're in?
I still take that as wrong. War does not open up a time where freedoms can be removed because of "national security".

-And for the last ten years, hasn't Suddam constantly been violating the weapons inspection treaty? We should have taken action then, but BS appeasement diplomacy held us back, and finally this year the greatest country in the world took action.
My point there was that they had been searching his country for the past ten years and hadn't found anything. "greatest country in the world" LOL

Please don't make me laugh so hard, I just got off work and my muscles are soar anyway. French and brave cannot even been placed in the same sentance...unless of course you insert "are sure as hell no" in-between the two words! "They had been holding the line for years". You're right, and I'm sure all the soldiers holding the line enjoyed sitting in those trenches during that stalemate. The only way to win a war is to move the lines forward, and that's where the US came in. "French resistance was more damaging to the Nazi's than anything we could possibly have done". And is that why the entire country was siezed by the Nazi's? " You're certainly right that D-Day wouldn't have been "fucked" if it wern't for the French...simply because it never would have had to happened if the French could defend their own damn country! "The US just supplied soldiers and weapons to the British." No. The US took over command of pretty much all the soldiers on the Western Front, and that's why we won the war. "So, I do deny the fact that Europe would be under Germany". And I ask, who's the moron here. Germany controlled the entire country of France, as well as a few others, and the only country remaining with the willingness and ability to fight them was Britain, which I'm sorry to say would not have stood a chance without US aid. They never would have made it off their island (not that this is their fault, they simply didn't have the resources). Russia didn't care about France, it was only fighting Germany because Hitler stabbed them in the back. Russia had made a deal with Hitler prior to the war to devide up the conquered land.
Debating on that all depends on where you get your history information. And I can assure you, none of mine comes from US brainwashed bullshit. On Russia though, they devided the conquered land so Hitler's stronger army wouldn't invade until Stalin was ready.

It comes down to this. No other country in the world has the military intelligence or ability that the US has. The US actually learns from previous battles, and adapts to changing times. WWII happened partly because of the policy of appeasement regarding Hitler's violations of WWI treaties. They let him become too powerful? Sound familiar? It should, and a four letter world should jar your memory. Iraq. Suddam was violating the weapon inspection aggreements and it's safe to assume that the only logical reason he would do so would be to start creating WMDs. The US new we had to act soon or face the consequences of another Hitler.
This country has been appeased in it's blatant disregard of UN laws. It has been getting too powerful. Does that sound familiar? Who's the Hitler reincarnate?

Give it a break Blib...you're getting no-where comparing any administration in your lifetime with that of the Third Reich.

The UN is not our governing body.

The UN is not our governing body.
And the US is not the world's governing body.

Not quite. Many starving people in this country live worse lives than the starving of third world countries. Why, because the cost of living is so much higher, and welfare has hit an alltime low.

-I agree that there are many unfortunate people in this country who are not recieving the aid they deserve. Much of this is due a failed welfare system. The welfare system is infected with people who collect welfare when they could just as easily find a job and earn money the honost way, or they are in poverty due to their own faults, such as drug addicts, alcoholics, convicts, etc. Welfare is a failed system because it removes the motivation to work for a living when you can just as easily recieve a check for sitting on your ass all day. This certainly hurts the people who really deserve and need welfare. Even so, the living situation overall in America is still much much better than anywhere else in the world, even for the poor.


I still take that as wrong. War does not open up a time where freedoms can be removed because of "national security".

I agree. Freedoms and civil liberties should never be suspended. It's happened in the past, and we've realized it was a mistake. No single person is perfect, and therefore no government ran by people is perfect. Nor should we espect it to be. The Patriot Act was a huge mistake, and hopefully the citizens and government of America will realize this and take the necessary steps to reverse the problem.


My point there was that they had been searching his country for the past ten years and hadn't found anything. "greatest country in the world" LOL

You're right. They didn't find anything...because Suddam wouldn't allow them to conduct the inspections as they should have! He would always know in advance which facilities would be inspected, and would sometimes even restrict inspectors from entering the facilities when they wanted too. What reason would he have for keeping them out than to move his WMDs? Too tidy up the house so that his UN friends would respect him? I think not.



Debating on that all depends on where you get your history information. And I can assure you, none of mine comes from US brainwashed bullshit. On Russia though, they devided the conquered land so Hitler's stronger army wouldn't invade until Stalin was ready.

"And I can assure you, none of mine comes from US brainwashed bullshit." Where does it come from then? Germany's brainwashed bullshit? "Alternate news sources" on the internet? If you havn't noticed, those sites are ten times more biased than mainstream news sources. Their news is entirely anti-America, anti-coorporations, and anti-mass media. They are not objective news sources. THEY are the ones brainwashing people into believing they have some great cause to fight in. I'm sure the feeling of "knowing the real truth" or aiding in "the revolution" makes you feel important, but it is causes like these that distort one's views of reality. I agree that our government has lied to us, and will continue to lie to us, and many if not most of those lies were unjustified. Another thing that needs changing in the government. However, I do believe there certainly all some things that must be kept from public knowledge, such as military information and technology. The government is actually open about "no comment" operations, and I think the general public realize the necessity of secrecy within certain areas of the government.




This country has been appeased in it's blatant disregard of UN laws. It has been getting too powerful. Does that sound familiar? Who's the Hitler reincarnate?

When UN laws threaten the safety of the United States, we must certainly break apart and do what we must to defend ourselves. The UN would have used diplomacy all the way until and biochemical bomb landed on its doorstep. Diplomacy is not always the answer. Sometimes force is necessary, and in this situation it certainly was. And don't even try to compare Hitler to the US or Bush, because that's another loosing argument on your side.

-Jonathan