I was listening to a radio talk show the other night and there seems to be a group of dumba**es that want to ban "Bruce Almighty"

There is a group of black women that are protesting "B-A" because it is going to make the white people mad at blacks(DUMB) They said that having a black guy playing the role of God will cause kids to have bad dreams, they also said people were watching B-A because it is a thriller not a comedy. They went on to say that Jim C. made the movie as a secret conspriacy against blacks(REAL DUMB) They are realy flipping out, they said the whole movie is aimed at hate towards the black community.

Who knows maybe Morgan Freeman is God?(just kidding) I like him and his acting.

What color if any, do you think God is?

What do you think God thought of the movie?

All your questions are irrelevant to myself and any other atheist.

Why is it that every atheist makes a point of announcing to the world at every opportunity that they're an atheist?

I never really think of God as being human anyway.

Originally posted by BorgHunter
All your questions are irrelevant to myself and any other atheist. So why waste your time (and ours) replying? The question obviously wasnt aimed at you in the first place. This IS the religious part of the forum correct?

Maddog- Those women are reading a whole lot more into the movie than what is actually there. Jim Carrey had no hidden agenda in making it. The only thing on his mind while making it was probably dollar signs.


I thought Morgan Freeman did a great job in the role. He is one of my favorite actors out there. And i dont think his role would offend God in any way.

GOD could present as any image GOD chooses, even appearing differently to each & every individual on the planet.

Originally posted by mad dog
There is a group of black women that are protesting "B-A" because it is going to make the white people mad at blacks...
And if 'God' was played by a white man, they'd cry it was racist.

Meh. Let people be stupid.

Originally posted by LionelHutz
Why is it that every atheist makes a point of announcing to the world at every opportunity that they're an atheist
The answer is quite simple: somewhere, in the back of their mind, they KNOW atheism is irrational. They KNOW there is a higher power, they just don’t want to admit it. The only reason Borg bothered to post is because he needs to keep convincing HIMSELF that he is an atheist, otherwise he might actually end up believing in something.

As for the first post, those women simply had nothing better to do with their time. Either that, or they just wanted to see their names in the newspaper.

The answer is quite simple: somewhere, in the back of their mind, they KNOW atheism is irrational. They KNOW there is a higher power, they just don’t want to admit it. The only reason Borg bothered to post is because he needs to keep convincing HIMSELF that he is an atheist, otherwise he might actually end up believing in something.
Uh, no, thank you, I don't need you to tell me what I believe in. I was just trying to throw in the fact that most people in this country automatically assume that everyone believes in a god and believe that that is the position everyone is in.

Borg; I know you are atheist, that wasn't the whole point of the post though. How do you feel about these women trying to start all of these racial fights over religious views?

Es; I also believe God can show himself/herself/itself any way it see's fit.

Age; it is a catch 20 situation damed if ya do, damned if ya don't

Havok; I haven't seen the movie yet, but I will, and also think M.F. is a good actor, along J.C.

Mopo; you may be right???????????????????

Originally posted by Mopoloton
The answer is quite simple: somewhere, in the back of their mind, they KNOW atheism is irrational. They KNOW there is a higher power, they just don’t want to admit it. The only reason Borg bothered to post is because he needs to keep convincing HIMSELF that he is an atheist, otherwise he might actually end up believing in something.

As for the first post, those women simply had nothing better to do with their time. Either that, or they just wanted to see their names in the newspaper.

Okay, this is funny. Atheism is irrational? And what religion is rational? Anyone who pretends to KNOW the answer to whether there is a "higher power" is full of it (And no, a warm, fuzzy feeling during prayer/meditation does not constitute proof that there is a "higher power").

I agree. I have faith that there is a God, but I can't prove it, I acknowledge that it doesn't make a lot of sense, and I certainly am not going to go around forcing my point of view on people.

Originally posted by LionelHutz
I agree. I have faith that there is a God, but I can't prove it, I acknowledge that it doesn't make a lot of sense, and I certainly am not going to go around forcing my point of view on people. I agree wholeheartedly with this post Lionel. While i consider myself a religious person, i have very little patience with people who try to preach to me about religion. There is nothing wrong with spreading the good word IMO, but if someone doesnt want to hear it then people should just back off.

Don’t go getting the wrong idea about my last post. I agree that you shouldn’t go around trying to force your religion on people. Everyone has their own freedom of religion, and it’s not anyone’s place to say who’s wrong and who’s right. MY point is that it is IMPOSSIBLE for anyone to be a true atheist. Think about it, in order to be an atheist you would have to have a complete closed mind. You would have to have NO feelings or emotion whatsoever. You would have to believe the Earth and all its living creatures were nothing more than an accident. You would have to believe there is NO purpose at all to our existence. Does anyone really think like this? NO!!!

Originally posted by LionelHutz
I agree. I have faith that there is a God, but I can't prove it
I don't see why not. I could prove the existence of God any day.

Originally posted by Mopoloton
I don't see why not. I could prove the existence of God any day. Well by all means, have at it. Because, forgive me, I personally have never spoken to a burning bush. I've always assumed that belief in God was an act of FAITH . But please enlighten me.

I can hardly wait for this . . .

I too would like to know.

Oh boy! Someone claiming to have proof of a god! I haven't torn an argument completely to shreds in a while...

Originally posted by BorgHunter
Oh boy! Someone claiming to have proof of a god! I haven't torn an argument completely to shreds in a while... Still smarting from our one on one, are ya?

Peanuts !! Popcorn !! Get your programs here !! Can't tell them apart without a program !!

You want proof that God exists, all you have to do is look in the mirror. Human beings are living proof that there is a God (or “higher power” if you want to call it that). More specifically, the human mind is proof that there is a god. For centuries scientists have been trying to figure out how a human brain works. And they’re NO closer to an answer today than they were 100 years ago. Oh sure, they have all kinds of ludicrous theories, but that’s ALL they have. If they really know how the human mind works, shouldn’t they be able to create a human mind themselves? Not even the most brilliant scientist on Earth can create a working human brain. This tells me that the human brain was created by an entity that is far superior to human beings.

The same goes for the human body. I doubt scientists will ever be able to create a living, breathing object that has blood pulsing through it at a perfect rate and is able to heal itself when damaged. Let alone create it from dust (and don’t go saying a human body isn’t made out of dust because that’s exactly what it turns into when it dies).

Come to think of it, this very argument can be used when referring to a lot of other things as well: The Earth itself, our solar system, how the Earth revolves around the sun at the PERFECT distance without ever losing orbit. You can’t honestly believe that all this is one huge coincidence, that our being here is just a big accident. If that were true, then the goals we set for ourselves in life would be completely meaningless… boy, isn’t atheism gloomy?

So when humans die off and machines live on in our place then that means we are GOD( atleast to the machine). I can feel the POWER!!!!!!!!

Can you imagine what they would do if a WOMAN had played the part of God................?:D :D

Christians really need to sit back with a good scotch and chill out a little.

Here we go...please keep all parts of your body within the cart at all times...please buckle your seatbelts...caution, you may get wet.

I see no "proof" at all in that post. The fact that we exist doesn't prove a damned thing. Evolution is what created us; that has been scientifically proven. And as for the "human mind" part, you're right, we really don't understand how the mind works. Our technology hasn't advanced that far yet.

A human body is made up of mostly carbon. Just because we "turn into dust" doesn't mean that's what we are. Is a log made up of smoke?

You know why all that is like that? Because if it were any different, we wouldn't exist. If Earth's orbit were unstable, we wouldn't exist. If we were closer or father away from the Sun, we wouldn't exist. And if we don't exist, how exactly can we be here? So it's not just coincedence, it's logic as well.

Come back with some harder evidence, you presented none at all in your post.

That’s the problem with you atheists, even when we present you with evidence you still refuse to believe it. I’ll bet if you saw Jesus Christ descend from Heaven with your own eyes you’d try to pass it off as being some sort of hoax, wouldn’t you? That brings me to the “evolution” theory. The reason they call it a “theory” is because it has NEVER been scientifically proven. All we have to support that theory are a few footprints that were supposedly left by Neanderthals. Did you ever think that maybe those footprints were put there by some practical joker who wanted to see how many people he could fool. You know, dozens of top scientists were convinced that those crop circles were really made by aliens until a group of kids came clean and admitted they had put them there. My point is, this “evidence” that is supposed to prove the theory of evolution could very well be nothing more than a hoax.

Just for the sake of argument, let’s say all this evidence is real. What about the Iceman? This body is supposed to be thousands of years old, yet it is just as human as we are. The Iceman was a fully developed homo sapien, no closer to an ape than you or me. If the Iceman is real, that pretty much dispels the theory of evolution, right?

One thing’s for sure: the human mind is no hoax. You admit our technology isn’t able to assess the functions of a human brain. Therefore, logic suggests that the human brain was designed and created by something more intelligent than humans.

One more thing. If the human body is made out of carbon, why can’t WE create a human body out of carbon?

Originally posted by Mopoloton
That’s the problem with you atheists, even when we present you with evidence you still refuse to believe it. I’ll bet if you saw Jesus Christ descend from Heaven with your own eyes you’d try to pass it off as being some sort of hoax, wouldn’t you? That brings me to the “evolution” theory. The reason they call it a “theory” is because it has NEVER been scientifically proven. All we have to support that theory are a few footprints that were supposedly left by Neanderthals. Did you ever think that maybe those footprints were put there by some practical joker who wanted to see how many people he could fool. You know, dozens of top scientists were convinced that those crop circles were really made by aliens until a group of kids came clean and admitted they had put them there. My point is, this “evidence” that is supposed to prove the theory of evolution could very well be nothing more than a hoax.

Just for the sake of argument, let’s say all this evidence is real. What about the Iceman? This body is supposed to be thousands of years old, yet it is just as human as we are. The Iceman was a fully developed homo sapien, no closer to an ape than you or me. If the Iceman is real, that pretty much dispels the theory of evolution, right?

One thing’s for sure: the human mind is no hoax. You admit our technology isn’t able to assess the functions of a human brain. Therefore, logic suggests that the human brain was designed and created by something more intelligent than humans.

One more thing. If the human body is made out of carbon, why can’t WE create a human body out of carbon?



I don't mean to be rude, but that must be THE most ridiculous argument I have ever heard, from someone attempting to prove that God/Jesus exists or existed. For all we know, the Bible might have been written by a bunch of Neanderthals as well.

Religion is one of those things which can never be 100% proved one way or the other. The only time we will ever find out is when we die.

I am by no means an athiest, but I keep an open mind to lots of things. Christians seem to be as single minded as you accuse athiests of being. I don't understand why you would be so affronted about someone having another explaination as to how the world began, other than Good did it. I thought Christianity was supposed to believe in tolerance?

I personally belief in what I see, what I do and how I treat others, not in a book which was supposedly written years ago and has been translated so many times it has lost much of it's original meaning.

The virgin Mary is a prime example. A virgin now is someone who has never had sex, so this is what Mary is believed to be. In the days of the bible, however, it is a woman who has never had a child. It doesn't seem such a special thing when you look at it in that light really, does it?

Originally posted by Mopoloton
NEVER been scientifically proven. All we have to support that theory are a few footprints that were supposedly left by Neanderthals. Did you ever think that maybe those footprints were put there by some practical joker who wanted to see how many people he could fool. You know, dozens of top scientists were convinced that those crop circles were really made by aliens until a group of kids came clean and admitted they had put them there. My point is, this “evidence” that is supposed to prove the theory of evolution could very well be nothing more than a hoax.

Just for the sake of argument, let’s say all this evidence is real. What about the Iceman? This body is supposed to be thousands of years old, yet it is just as human as we are. The Iceman was a fully developed homo sapien, no closer to an ape than you or me. If the Iceman is real, that pretty much dispels the theory of evolution, right?

One thing’s for sure: the human mind is no hoax. You admit our technology isn’t able to assess the functions of a human brain. Therefore, logic suggests that the human brain was designed and created by something more intelligent than humans.

One more thing. If the human body is made out of carbon, why can’t WE create a human body out of carbon?
Oh for Dog's sake, that's ridiculous. Evolution has been scientifically proven, through things like carbon dating and the like. And we certainly have more than footprints...we have many bones, mostly complete skeletons. And they were carbon-dated to be 2 million years old. What's more, they were significantly different than both homo sapiens and pan troglodytes (humans and chimps, respectively). Pick up the special issue of Scientific American regarding evolution, and you'll see how it's been proven as well.

"Ötzi the Iceman is a natural mummy of a prehistoric (Neolithic) man found by a couple of German tourists on September 19, 1991, in a glacier of the Ötztaler Alps.

The well-preserved body of a 30-to-45-year old man dates back to 3300 BC. The body was examined, measured, x-rayed, and dated."

I'm not sure if your information regarding the Iceman is correct, but if it is, roughly 5000 years is not really enough time to evolve much. 50 000 years, 500 000 years, 5 000 000 years, yes.

Oh, so since we don't understand something, it must have been created by a higher power, eh? Then I suppose our houses must have been built by a god, since bugs don't understand our houses.

It's called a woman having a baby, dumbass. Or, if you prefer, human cloning, which we are technologically advanced enough to do, except for laws banning it.

Get a book, do some research. Come back when you're more educated on the subjects you discuss.

Originally posted by Dreamweaver
Can you imagine what they would do if a WOMAN had played the part of God................?:D :D

"And when God created man, She was only joking."

Originally posted by Age
"And when God created man, She was only joking."






My sentiments exactly.............it is lucky that women have such a wonderful sense of humour........:D :D

Well Borg, you’re right, bugs don’t know how houses are built. The reason is because houses are built by beings superior to bugs. Since WE don’t know how a human mind works, it must have been created by something superior to us. Face it, to believe that something as complex as a human brain was formed by an accident is completely preposterous. I noticed you completely avoided this question: if evolutionists know everything about the human body, why can’t they create one themselves? According to you, they know exactly what our bodies are made of.

Since the iceman isn’t old enough for you, let’s go back in time a little more… to the Egyptians. Any historian will tell you that the ancient Egyptians are the earliest humans we know of. Archeologists continue to unearth ancient Egyptian tombs containing the mummified remains of Egyptian rulers. When these mummies are examined, it is discovered that they are just as human as we are. These people existed AT LEAST 500,000 years ago, maybe even longer ago than that.

Yes, Borg. A woman gives birth to a baby, that’s how the life cycle goes. However, all cycles have to START somewhere.

Dreamweaver, Christians are VERY tolerant. We are able to tolerate atheists bashing our religion on a daily basis.

Originally posted by Mopoloton
Dreamweaver, Christians are VERY tolerant. We are able to tolerate atheists bashing our religion on a daily basis.



I wasn't bashing religion, but if you can find somewhere I have I would be happy for you to show me. I was stating my beliefs, which as a Wiccan, is one which has been pursecuted by christians for many years. Not much tolereance there.

Life doesn't begin and end in the realms of the church. I was a member of the Catholic Church for many years, so my comments are made from what I personally experienced. I must admit, I didn't see much in the way of compassion or tolerance. It was quite the opposite actually, but if yours has been different, that is great for you.

(The Egyptians) existed AT LEAST 500,000 years ago, maybe even longer ago than that.
What the hell?
(Encarta)

Most scholars believe that the Egyptian kingdom was first unified in about 3100 bc

Originally posted by BorgHunter
(Encarta)

Most scholars believe that the Egyptian kingdom was first unified in about 3100 bc
Not according to the scholars I watched on the History Channel. I guess even the most skilled scientists disagree when it comes to evolution. Obviously, evolution is a theory that still has a lot of holes in it. No one knows for sure if any of those bones and footprints are real. The only thing that is truly certain is that you are deliberately trying to avoid the subject.

Dreamweaver, I wasn’t exactly talking about you. I was talking about what I see every time I turn on the television or the radio. Someone is ALWAYS putting down Christianity in some form or another. It’s no surprise that most of the jerk-offs who do this are atheists. How can they complain that we are always imposing our religion on them, when they are SO quick to bash our beliefs at every opportunity?

Christians certainly weren't very tolerant during the Crusades. And, unfortunately, that hasn't change much. If you look at all these idiots firing gays, firing Jews, etc. etc., you'd agree. I'm not putting down Christianity here, as I'm sure that these people were in the more conservative branches of Christianity (fundamentalist, Baptist) and not the more liberal branches (Presbyterian, MCC).

What do you mean no one knows for sure the bones are "real"? What, do you think they think they might be chicken bones? I think trained scientists know the difference between a chicken bone and a 2 million year old Australopithecus bone.

Which came first the chicken or the egg? Probably the egg because God new that "us" humans needed breakfast so that we could start our day....:D He gave us the chicken later so we could have dinner...:D

Evolution has been proven. Things that couldn't evolve didn't survive look at dinasours, Turtles, aligators, snakes. Some adapted, some didn't, life is always changing and yes evolving. Who knows maybe 5billion years from now every human will be both sexes. Maybe there won't be black, asiain, white, Maybe everyone will just be gray. Sure would be kool to come back in 5 billion years, funny thing is if we could be here then we would be the freaks.

Personally, I'd like to clarify that denominations within the Christian church represent broad theological concepts. The Baptist denomination is based on personal relationships to God and congregational autonomy, it has little to do with the fundamentalism the Southern Baptists have identified themselves with.

First of all, let me address the statement about gays and Jews being fired because of their beliefs: I don’t think this happens! There are laws stating that no employee can be terminated because of their race, religion, or sexual preferences. The problem is, people tend to abuse these laws. For example, if a gay man is fired simply because he refuses to do his job properly, he will immediately begin to tell everyone “The only reason they fired me is because I’m gay” even though he knows that isn’t the case. He will then sue the company with hopes of either getting rich or just getting back at his boss, even though there was NO prejudice involved in his termination. This type of thing happens more often than not, that’s why I believe prejudice against gays and Jews doesn’t exist in our job system.

Scientists can be fooled Borg. Just look at how many thought those crop circles were real. Trained scientists are “book smart,” but don’t have any common sense.

Originally posted by Mopoloton
First of all, let me address the statement about gays and Jews being fired because of their beliefs: I don’t think this happens! There are laws stating that no employee can be terminated because of their race, religion, or sexual preferences.
There are also laws stating that pay should not differ depending on the sex of the employee. But that's been proven over and over again to be untrue.

Just because there are laws in place does NOT mean they are followed.

Originally posted by Age
There are also laws stating that pay should not differ depending on the sex of the employee. But that's been proven over and over again to be untrue.

Just because there are laws in place does NOT mean they are followed.

This is VERY true, my wife and I went to a place to see about work. The women worked on one floor and the men on another, both doing the same thing, the women got .75 less per hour.

I also understand what Mopo is saying, alot of businesses are afraid of the "minority's" because every time one little thing happens it is all of a sudden because they are black , asian, etc.... The big question is why do we label ourselfs at the work place? If you work for G.E. then you are not black, woman, white, you are a G.E. employee. At the end of the day you can go back to being whom ever you want to be.

Originally posted by mad dog
This is VERY true, my wife and I went to a place to see about work. The women worked on one floor and the men on another, both doing the same thing, the women got .75 less per hour.

I also understand what Mopo is saying, alot of businesses are afraid of the "minority's" because every time one little thing happens it is all of a sudden because they are black , asian, etc.... The big question is why do we label ourselfs at the work place? If you work for G.E. then you are not black, woman, white, you are a G.E. employee. At the end of the day you can go back to being whom ever you want to be. To the first part Maddog. Did the work you were gonna perform require any type of physical labor? Or mechanical knowledge? Because if it did, in my experience, the men deserve to get paid more.


And to answer the second part. Labeling yourself a minority on the jobsite leads to more job stability. All minorities know this. I worked in a factory for 12 years and ive seen it all. I've seen lazy black people that couldnt be fired because of their race. I've seen women who are making more money than men who cannot perform their job requirements. But because they are women and a minority, they keep their jobs. These blacks and women were not the exception to the rule either. The exceptions to the rule were the honest hardworking people believe it or not.

Originally posted by Mopoloton
Scientists can be fooled Borg. Just look at how many thought those crop circles were real. Trained scientists are “book smart,” but don’t have any common sense.

What an idiotic generalization! First off, being being "book smart" is not unrelated to having common sense. Second, the scientific community has a few morons just like any other community, and those individuals may be fooled like anyone else. However, the was NEVER a point where the scientific community as a whole came to any conclusions about crop circles, so don't let the opinion of one "scientist" on the SCIFI channel dictate your opinion of the entire scientific community....THAT's a lack of common sense.

Expecting common sense from a common idiot. That's a mistake.

Originally posted by HaVoK To the first part Maddog. Did the work you were gonna perform require any type of physical labor? Or mechanical knowledge? Because if it did, in my experience, the men deserve to get paid more.

Two words.

HELL NO.

Did the work you were gonna perform require any type of physical labor? Or mechanical knowledge? Because if it did, in my experience, the men deserve to get paid more.


I'm sorry if my politically incorrect statement angers you. However, truth sometimes hurts. The majority of women do not have the capacity for physical labor the majority of men do. Nor do the majority of women have the mechanical aptitude of the majority of men.

The first time I saw a female soldier change a tire on a truck, all by herself, & knew damn well that I could not preform the same task alone, I gave up the idea of men earning more for the exact same position than women.

Originally posted by Leper
What an idiotic generalization! First off, being being "book smart" is not unrelated to having common sense. Second, the scientific community has a few morons just like any other community, and those individuals may be fooled like anyone else. However, the was NEVER a point where the scientific community as a whole came to any conclusions about crop circles, so don't let the opinion of one "scientist" on the SCIFI channel dictate your opinion of the entire scientific community....THAT's a lack of common sense.
Leper, “book smarts” and “street smarts” are two completely different things. I’ve known schoolteachers who could tell you anything about what’s written in the books, yet were always the first to be suckered into those pyramid scams. The same is true for scientists; they know everything that’s written in the books, but know nothing about how to spot a hoax. Some things are just not taught in a classroom.

Ok, but those women who ARE as qualified (mechanically, physically, or whatever else) as the men should be paid the same.

I don't believe anyone unqualified should be given a job.

Qualification has nothing to do with gender.

Originally posted by Munchmausen
Ok, but those women who ARE as qualified (mechanically, physically, or whatever else) as the men should be paid the same.

I don't believe anyone unqualified should be given a job. I agree with you Munch. If a woman can do the job, she deserves equal pay. No question. But i am speaking from my own experience when i made the comments. And in my experience, a woman who is as capable as a man to do physical, mechanical work is the exception to the rule.

Originally posted by HaVoK
To the first part Maddog. Did the work you were gonna perform require any type of physical labor? Or mechanical knowledge? Because if it did, in my experience, the men deserve to get paid more.


And to answer the second part. Labeling yourself a minority on the jobsite leads to more job stability. All minorities know this. I worked in a factory for 12 years and ive seen it all. I've seen lazy black people that couldnt be fired because of their race. I've seen women who are making more money than men who cannot perform their job requirements. But because they are women and a minority, they keep their jobs. These blacks and women were not the exception to the rule either. The exceptions to the rule were the honest hardworking people believe it or not.

Sorry I didn't answer earlier but I couldn't get into the site.
To the first part, a monkey could have done this job it was really just a job to hold us over until we got settled, we didn't work there.

To the 2nd part I do agree with you. Because of affirmative action the employer is stuck in a catch 20. I was just trying to say how it should be not how it really is.

I also agree there are certain jobs that a man can do better then a woman, "BUT" also there are certain jobs that a woman can do better then a man. Now Age go get a cup of coffee would you!!!(just kidding don't get mad I couldn't resist):D

Lets not forget the whole pregnancy thing I would really like to see a man perform that job :D

Originally posted by mad dog
Sorry I didn't answer earlier but I couldn't get into the site.
To the first part, a monkey could have done this job it was really just a job to hold us over until we got settled, we didn't work there.

To the 2nd part I do agree with you. Because of affirmative action the employer is stuck in a catch 20. I was just trying to say how it should be not how it really is.

I also agree there are certain jobs that a man can do better then a woman, "BUT" also there are certain jobs that a woman can do better then a man. Now Age go get a cup of coffee would you!!!(just kidding don't get mad I couldn't resist):D

Lets not forget the whole pregnancy thing I would really like to see a man perform that job :D Then it was unfair for that factory to try to pay your wife any less than you for the same job.

And i agree with you on the part about there are jobs that women can do better than men. And dont get me wrong....there are women out there who are physically capable of working some men under the table. Just as there are women in the world who have more mechanical knowledge/aptitude than some men. I am just talking of the majority of the women i have encountered.

Originally posted by mad dog
Now Age go get a cup of coffee would you!!!(just kidding don't get mad I couldn't resist):D

*gets you a cup of coffee

... and pours it on your head.*

Sorry, I couldn't resist.

lol

I'm going to sue you for a million now, just like Mc. Ds Now clean up the mess :D LOL

Only a million? IMO, you need to ask for 20x that much, so after your lawyer & the tax office get done you still have almost a million to pocket.

I believe the existance of God can be proven. God can prove his existance to a person, but a person cannot prove God's existance to another person.

everyone knows God is purple... and very well hung

Originally posted by DaveTooner
I believe the existance of God can be proven. God can prove his existance to a person, but a person cannot prove God's existance to another person.


That is how the church attempts to explain its existence. I don't accept there is 'A' god, and nobody will ever make me feel there is.

There is too much hatred and suffering in the world to allow me to believe that someone/something who is supposed to love us so much could sit back and let it all happen.

Everyone has the power within themselves to make a change, and I don't need a church or priest to tell me right from wrong. Especially when many them don't know the difference themselves.

According to the bible, when things got really bad here on Earth once before, GOD got really irritated, got hold of Noah, sent him on a mission, & then flooded everything. There's even some evidence of this flood, and the Ark, if one chooses to believe "evidence" presented. All well & good. It is tough to believe that things in XXXXX???? B.C. could have been any worse that what occured during the 20th century alone, yet -- no Ark. While I don't share the belief that there is no Almighty, I can surely appreciate & understand those who disclaim (HIS, HER, ITS, ***) the existence of an Almighty.

Maybe you can appreciate and understand them, but I can’t. I just don’t see how ANYONE can deny the existence of God. Look around you! Do you really believe our planet and our existence is just one big accident. That’s preposterous! God CAN prove his existence to you, but first you have to accept him. People who don’t believe in God have never even tried to accept him, that’s why they don’t believe.

Even though I’ve always believed in God, I wasn’t always a Christian. I used to despise those bible thumpers who tried to impose their religion on me. And I too used to wonder why bad things happen to good people, but now it all makes perfect sense to me. My point is that you really shouldn’t knock anything until you try it.

That is a very arrogant statement. There are many different types of religions with varying gods, goddess etc. Is your religion more important or relevant than theirs?

Good point Dreamweaver, who says God even gives 2 craps about humans, after all look at how we destroy everything just so life can be easier for us. Maybe God created us but I doubt very highly he/she/it is very proud of us and our greedy ways. I was born and raised in a very Catholic house, so I do know alittle about Catholics, I've also studied many other religions. The bible proves nothing more then any other religion. Jesus may or may not have been the son, but then maybe also david (from Waco) might have been the lamp. Who knows 3000 years from now there might be a bible about waco and how it was the most religious place on earth. Maybe people will preach that David was really the 2nd comming of Jesus. My point is humans have a way of twisting things until they meet a certain wish that we have that there is a place of beauty after death. I'm NOT saying that any religion is false what I'm saying is they all lack evidence of SOLID truth. Just because grandpa and grandma said this is the way it is, does not make it true. Lets also not forget you can have 100 people read the bible and everyone of them will interpret it different.

People who are willing to destroy everything in their path to get what they want are selfish, unsympathetic, power hungry, cold-hearted, self-serving egomaniacs. Even though people like this are everywhere, there are still lots of honest people left. God doesn’t stop people from committing lurid acts because that would be a violation of our free will. However, God DID give us the ability to overcome greed and selfishness so as not to commit such acts. It’s pretty much impossible to avoid sin this day & age, but it’s not impossible to try.

If you’ve really studied different types of religions, you should know that they are not all that dissimilar from one another. All major religions agree that there is one ultimate god. They have different names for it (Allah, Mohammed, and so forth), but all believe that there is a higher power and that death is not the end. This should tell you something.

Originally posted by Mopoloton
If you’ve really studied different types of religions, you should know that they are not all that dissimilar from one another. All major religions agree that there is one ultimate god. They have different names for it (Allah, Mohammed, and so forth), but all believe that there is a higher power and that death is not the end. This should tell you something.



Wicca is a religion which has been around for about as long, if not longer, than most mainstream religions. They do not believe in 'one' god. They celebrate both the god and goddess, because they believe that there is the masculine and feminine in nature. Women are held in high esteem, unlike many of the popular religions, and you are also able to contribute to it rather than just be a follower. I always consider it a thinking person's religion. You are not criticised for questioning, or disagreeing.

Wiccans believe in the higher power being within you. You have the power to make change, and contribute to the world to make it a better place. Many other religions look down on those who do not agree with them, and even restrict marriages to being within the church. This, in my opinion, shows a fear on their part, in case one is influenced to question the church.

Going into a church, being lectured by a priest doesn't cut it for me. I live in the real world, with a family, and I resent a celebate person who doesn't live within the community telling me how to live my life. I know what is right for my family, and I loke to have some say in the direction my life is heading.

Originally posted by Mopoloton
[B All major religions agree that there is one ultimate god. They have different names for it (Allah, Mohammed, and so forth), but all believe that there is a higher power and that death is not the end. [/B]

Sorry but
1- Mohammed is not a god, just the prophet of Muslims (Allah being the arabic word for God)
2- Some major religions do not believe in a unique god. Hinduism teaches there are many gods (even though they are sometimes considered as the manifestation of one supreme god) and Buddhism does not believe in any god.

About the death being not the end, you're right.

Originally posted by astrapol2


About the death being not the end, you're right. I dont understand how someone can have faith that there is an afterlife, yet not believe in God. Could you make me understand this?

Dreamweaver thankyou for showing just one religion that believes in more then one God. There are religions that say there are Gods that make up different parts of the world, universe, etc... Ex. One God takes care of the water, one takes care of the air, one takes care of the land, etc..... These religions where here WAY, way, before Christianity. There is even proof that cave men worshipped some sort of God.

Mopo I'm not arguing the fact that people can be caring, the fact still remains, humans live for one reason themselfs. Ok fine someone really religious lives for themselfs and what ever they believe in. BUT does the Pope really need all that gold when there are poor, does a church need a huge building with an indoor gym, when there are homeless etc...? Do we really need to cut down a tree so we can have one more fancy end table? Do we really need to have 500,000,000 fast food places? I hope you can see what I'm trying to say we constantly waste but hardly ever return what we have taken.

Havok just because someone is not Christian does not mean they disbeilive in an after life. There are some atheist that believe they will travel as an electric force after there body no longer pumps blood. My uncle just passed away he had starting going back to church(fine I have no problem with that) I told my Mom that I did not believe the same as the rest of the family. She said well, "I don't know how you can go through life without believing that there is something after death." I do believe there is alot after death Just because I find it hard to believe in Christ does not mean I don't think there is more after death. Who knows maybe I'll be proven wrong when the big day comes(then it will be between me and Christ) I just refuse do go around blindly following a certain religion about a God that was written by MAN. The God or Gods that I believe in are every where, they are trees, water, rocks, and yes the planets. This is my proof, not a book that was written for humans. I find it very hard to believe that God created this planet with only humans in mind, I also find it very hard to believe that everything on this planet is here to service us. If this is the case then why have we only been here for just a short time, and why didn't God start with us instead of dinasaurs? One thing that people forget when they start talking about religion is the whole picture HUMANS are not IT.

Originally posted by HaVoK
I dont understand how someone can have faith that there is an afterlife, yet not believe in God. Could you make me understand this?

For exemple Buddhists believe that the soul survives the physical death and goes in another body to live a better or worse life, depending on one's actions during life. If one finally reaches perfection during one of these lives, his souls is freed from this cycle and melts into a fianl state of exstasy and oblivion : the nirvana.

There is no god or suprahuman being in this belief, only souls that travel from existence to existence.

(if any Buddhist reads this, sorry for the oversimplification but I guess the it's the basic idea)

(if any Buddhist reads this, sorry for the oversimplification but I guess the it's the basic idea)
Lisa Simpson would be appalled.

Religions that believe in multiple gods also believe that there is one certain God who is greater than the rest. These “lesser gods” are most likely what Christians define as angels, serving the one ultimate God. Even Buddhists believe in a driving force that controls the events of the afterlife, even if they don’t directly worship this force.

Mohammed is actually the Muslim word for Jesus, the son of God. Muslims worship Jesus Christ more that God because Jesus was human, and he was the one who allowed himself to be crucified in exchange for the future sins of mankind. Allah is a term for God in general, not just the word of God.

A lot of people who aren’t religious talk about Christianity as if it were somehow a threat to them and their way of life. I’m not sure where this comes from. Real Christians never look down on other religions or tell them we’re better than they are. In fact, a lot of us try to find similarities in the different religions, and there are quite a few. I know there are some Christians out there who try to force their religion on others, but most of us are not like that. Truth is Christians are more often on the receiving end of resentment and ridicule. Whenever someone mentions Christianity on TV it’s always to crack some sick joke about it. And not only have they banned praying in public schools, but they no longer allow students to say the words “under God” during the Pledge of Allegiance. It’s only natural that some Christians choose to retaliate.

Mad dog, I don’t know about the churches in your area, but I’ve never seen a church with an indoor gym. The only reason a church should have an indoor gym is if it were there for the purpose of somehow helping others and not for the recreation of church members. Also, I don’t know how on Earth you tie religion in with fast food places.

Originally posted by Mopoloton
A lot of people who aren’t religious talk about Christianity as if it were somehow a threat to them and their way of life. I’m not sure where this comes from. Real Christians never look down on other religions or tell them we’re better than they are. In fact, a lot of us try to find similarities in the different religions, and there are quite a few. I know there are some Christians out there who try to force their religion on others, but most of us are not like that. Truth is Christians are more often on the receiving end of resentment and ridicule. Whenever someone mentions Christianity on TV it’s always to crack some sick joke about it. And not only have they banned praying in public schools, but they no longer allow students to say the words “under God” during the Pledge of Allegiance. It’s only natural that some Christians choose to retaliate.


I think that it is the Christians who feel threatened, and that is why they dislike their beliefs being questioned.

Witches were burned at the stake many years ago, because they threatened the teachings and beliefs of the 'normal' church. That doesn't teach tolerance for other people's beliefs.

I don't think that religion should be taught in schools at all. Children are at school to learn their ABC's, and it is the job of the parent to instill the religious values if they choose to do so. There are so many different religions in the school system now, it would be impossible to cater to all of them. If you want religious teaching, send your child to a religious school, they will get plenty of it there.

I don't deny anyone their faith, but I hate those who come around knocking on my door wanting to talk to me about theirs. My home is my domain, and I don't want someone peddling things I am not interested in.

What you do with the door to door evangalists is to attempt to trade religious texts. You take their bible, you hand them the Satanists bible, any of Nieztche's works, or Darwin's, they'll never bug you again.

Originally posted by Blibblob
What you do with the door to door evangalists is to attempt to trade religious texts. You take their bible, you hand them the Satanists bible, any of Nieztche's works, or Darwin's, they'll never bug you again.



hahahahahaha........ I will have to keep a couple handy at the front door.........:D

I don’t think religion should be TAUGHT in public schools, but I don’t think it should be completely banned either. In my state, it’s forbidden to even say “God” inside a public school. I can’t help but think that’s a little extreme. I don’t see any harm at all in leaving the words “under God” in the Pledge of Allegiance.

Those door-to-door evangelists you speak of are the Jehovah’s Witnesses. Going from one house to another handing out “Watchtower” pamphlets is kind of like their trademark.

Originally posted by Blibblob
What you do with the door to door evangalists is to attempt to trade religious texts. You take their bible, you hand them the Satanists bible, any of Nieztche's works, or Darwin's, they'll never bug you again.
Remember this! It WASN’T ME who called Darwin a Satanist!

Alright, after my sad(and to fundamentalists, SICK joke) I might as well say something.

Budhism basically is what astropal said( sheesh borg, why would Lisa be appalled, she didn't even know budhists were tollerent), it's basically a godless, classless form of hinduism. Somewhat more of a philosophy than a religion, kind of like taoism, actually a lot like taoism. Nature as the driving force.

Religions that believe in multiple gods also believe that there is one certain God who is greater than the rest. These “lesser gods” are most likely what Christians define as angels, serving the one ultimate God.
Actually, the larger trend, is there being a leading god, that wasn't popular. Zeus was almost hated and his daughter Athena was the most popular, Apollo was the more popular male god, Odin was a traitorous god, Thor was the most popular(dont remember who the other popular one was), I have completely forgotten my Chinese and American mythology, but I'm pretty sure the trend is the same(from what little I can remember). If you read the bible a certain way, it does too. First, the ten commandments, it stated specifically "worship no gods before me", not denying that there are no other gods. Also, the god in the old testament is a vengeful angry god, and the god Jesus speaks of is a kind forgiving one. Portions of the Gnostic religion give them names, Sophia for the new testament(now doesn't that name sound familiar?), and Demirgue for the old testament, and of course Nature as the third balancing force. Even the Christians claim a Trinity. Islam is almost an identical religion to Christianity, the gods are the same. And Allah is just a general term that can be associated with any god. See, there is no such thing as a true Monotheistic religion that completely denies the existance of other gods.

A lot of people who aren’t religious talk about Christianity as if it were somehow a threat to them and their way of life. I’m not sure where this comes from.
It is not necessarily a threat per say. But it gets damn well annoying. I have a Baptist friend who goes "blah blah blah god, blah blah blah jesus" and it gets really annoying, why can't they just leave their personal life out of it. I never say anything about my religious life(or lack there of) unless the conversation is on it. Many christians(basically all organized religions do it) utter god when the topic is light years from it. It's not a threat, it's just annoying.

Real Christians never look down on other religions or tell them we’re better than they are. In fact, a lot of us try to find similarities in the different religions, and there are quite a few.
Ok, I've been in a few Catholic churches, and once in a Baptist one. I have never heard any sort of tollerence for other religions at all. All I hear about other religions is that the are "misguided" and "need to see the light of the lord". Quite a few try to find similarities? On forums I have not seen one CHRISTIAN try, in real life, I have yet to see one CHRISTIAN try. Sure, I've met Muslims who try and find similarities or pagans who are writing a psuedo book on the subject that all religions are identical. Yes I know that some high ranking official said that no matter what religion you take, it all leads to the lord. Then he turned around and said it would take longer the other ways. I'm guessing the 700 club baptists have scared me too much.

And not only have they banned praying in public schools, but they no longer allow students to say the words “under God” during the Pledge of Allegiance. It’s only natural that some Christians choose to retaliate.
You can't ban somebody from praying in school or saying "under God". You just can't have a "pray break" in your classroom, students can pray all they want. But face it, the intrest in religion is dropping, drastically, younger people just don't see why they should waste their sunday in a church anymore, about 80% of the people I know are either agnostic or athiest. I'm sure that if I lived a couple decades ago, that percent would be quite a bit smaller.

I told my Mom that I did not believe the same as the rest of the family. She said well, "I don't know how you can go through life without believing that there is something after death."
Was it truly that calm? If so, I hate you. I was caught researching different religions and got grounded. On an occult website, the page was blocked. Same happens with my politics, they get blocked(I know how to fix that though), its their religious leanings that do it. Little Catholics that couldn't stand their kid being anything else.

I think that it is the Christians who feel threatened, and that is why they dislike their beliefs being questioned.
That, I beleive is true. Why, because if you sat down and read the bible, and then tried to match it up with the religions the Christians created, you'd get damn well confused. They feel threatened because with any little researching on the topic, everything they state falls apart. It's a very weak and flimsy religion, they need full support or it will fall. Thats why heretics were burned before they could point out the problems. Martin Luther got lucky, and then the protestants became no better than the Catholics, flimsy weak religions.

Remember this! It WASN’T ME who called Darwin a Satanist!
I didn't, I just placed his writings up there with the greats that the Christians are afraid of.

Originally posted by Mopoloton
Mad dog, I don’t know about the churches in your area, but I’ve never seen a church with an indoor gym. The only reason a church should have an indoor gym is if it were there for the purpose of somehow helping others and not for the recreation of church members. Also, I don’t know how on Earth you tie religion in with fast food places.

I will give you SOME proof of a gym in a church on monday mornings there is a show on at 7:30 with Lee Haney(8 time winner of body building) He is religious and has a 1/2 hour show about body building he does this at the church. This is not the only place that has an indoor gym I also have a friend out west that told me they just finished there church. Took millions of dollars to build with an indoor gym and pool. Just go on the internet and search different types of churches they are out there, maybe not in every town but they still are there. I was not tying fast food places with church I was just stating how waste full people are and how we only care about material things.

Let me ask you this do you go to church to save your soul or do you go so you can support the believe that you have. I know quite a few people started going to church right after 9/11 because they were afraid of dieing not because they were religious.

Like I have said I'm not saying which religion is true or not true. I am just saying that there are other ideas of the big picture out there. Religions can show some proof of some things but not one shows total proof of everthing. That is why most people that are religious say they know in there heart that there religion is true, when in reality they really don't know solidlly that they are right.

One more thing Mopo you can not tell me the christians haven't forced there religion on people, do a study. Look at what Christians did to the American Indians, the Druids etc... And lets not forget Salem Mass. where the Christians would burn a person at the stake if they had red hair and thought to be a witch. Christians have done some of the most violent acts against people just because they did not practice there religion. I know that things have changed, but that still does not change the fact that Christians had a violent past.

Originally posted by Blibblob
I told my Mom that I did not believe the same as the rest of the family. She said well, "I don't know how you can go through life without believing that there is something after death."
Was it truly that calm? If so, I hate you. I was caught researching different religions and got grounded. On an occult website, the page was blocked. Same happens with my politics, they get blocked(I know how to fix that though), its their religious leanings that do it. Little Catholics that couldn't stand their kid being anything else.

I am an adult so no she didn't ground me, she was sad to find out that I have doubts. I felt bad for telling her but I have always been honest with my parents that is why we have had a long and good relation ship. I believe that being truthfull is more important then religion, atleast when it comes between people.

Ok, where to begin. I’ve read about Buddhism before; Buddhists believe that where the soul goes after death depends entirely on how one’s life is lived. And as I understand it, once a person gets his or her life right, their soul is sent to a place of total paradise. Obviously, Buddhists don’t believe the events after death are totally random. They know something has to control this, they just never question it.

Christians don’t deny the existence of other “spiritual beings” besides God. We define angels as being more powerful than humans, but less powerful than God. This pretty much complies with every religion. The only difference is, as I said before, we all have different names God and the angels. The commandment that reads “Thou shalt not bow down to any god before me.” Can be interpreted in several different ways. Most likely it means not to create a fictitious god (like the golden calf) and worship it.

As hard as it is to believe, the world really was more violent and hateful in the days of the Old Testament than it is now. Thus, God had to be vengeful and angry. Also, the crucifixion changed everything: In B.C. times people who wanted to repent would have to sacrifice an animal to prove their faith and then avoid sin for the rest of their lives. Jesus made the ultimate sacrifice in exchange for the sins of all mankind, therefore it is no longer necessary for us to avoid sin, or for God to punish us. Today, all you have to do to repent is acknowledge God’s existence and give thanks where it is due (and to think even THAT is too much trouble for some people).

Any Christian who does not respect other religions is NOT a real Christian. The original Christian religion involves tolerance and acceptance. I never try to put down other religions because I don’t see them as being that different. Christians master different skills at different times. I’ll admit that I still haven’t gotten the “tolerance” part mastered yet, but I’m working on it.

To answer mad dog’s question, I go to church because I enjoy being around other believers. When I’m out in public and I hear people say God doesn’t exist I get so furious that I feel like ripping their damn heads off one by one. Spending time with other Christians helps me deal with this.

When I’m out in public and I hear people say God doesn’t exist I get so furious that I feel like ripping their damn heads off one by one. Spending time with other Christians helps me deal with this.


I agree with everything you said in your earlier post. However this statement is hardly appropriate for a christian to say. Why would you feel so threatened by someone having no faith that you would want to do them physical harm? What is the point?

Like I said, I’ve still got some work to do in the “tolerance” area, but I’m getting there.

Hey that's interesting because whenever I hear people preaching their god to me when I make it clear I don't wish to hear it: I feel like ripping their damn heads off too! only difference is... I don't believe in god, therefore I don't believe I will go to hell for my "sins"... BIG wieght off my chest...

FYI, that was totally fictitious. I don't ever feel like ripping peoples damn heads off... I know its wrong...

Thanks Mopo for your answer, I was going to ask the same thing Havok already did(the ripped off head). What makes me mad is when I tell someone the way I feel about Gods and religion (especially Christians, because that is who I am around) They get defensive, and tell me I'm going to hell. I have asked many Christians what makes there religion the right one, most give me a dirty look get mad and walk away. I believe it was Havok that explained it the best "It is a feeling inside". This is the same way I feel about the way I worship. The other thing that makes me mad is that everyone insist there religion is right but the fact remains there is NO truth. This is why the world has been at conflict for so many years, because all humans can't decide on what is right. Maybe all the religions have some truth that could make up a whole truth, but the way I see it no religion has total truth. I practice the one that I see as being the closest, as I figure that is what most others do.

Originally posted by mad dog
What makes me mad is when I tell someone the way I feel about Gods and religion (especially Christians, because that is who I am around) They get defensive, and tell me I'm going to hell.
Well, try to put yourself in the other person’s position: Christians spend most, if not all, of their life learning and memorizing the teachings of God. When you say to them “God isn’t real” you’re pretty much belying everything they believe in. This is why Christians tend to get defensive when someone pounds them with a bunch of atheist remarks. The way to get solid truth is to find something that ALL religions agree on, which is what I’ve been doing.

Like all Christians, I believe in the crucifixion; I believe Jesus died a horrible death in exchange for our sins. I also believe that everything we have was given to us as a blessing. Therefore, when I hear someone deny the existence of God, I instantly see that person as an ungrateful prick. Christians aren’t supposed to feel this way about others, but I just can’t help it. This is why I usually avoid religious discussions at all costs.

Religious people always bring a smile to my lips... What if I were to tell you, "Gerblin Mebung, the great pixie mime of yore, inventor of shoes and master of the pogo stick, will return to earth some day to lead us all into a great mystical water-park where everybody dresses up like cartoon characters and sings "They're Coming To Take Me Away" all day long."? How would you view me?

Probably the same as we view you now with all these "interesting" posts you come up with.

Originally posted by Mopoloton
Well, try to put yourself in the other person’s position: Christians spend most, if not all, of their life learning and memorizing the teachings of God. When you say to them “God isn’t real” you’re pretty much belying everything they believe in. This is why Christians tend to get defensive when someone pounds them with a bunch of atheist remarks. The way to get solid truth is to find something that ALL religions agree on, which is what I’ve been doing.

Like all Christians, I believe in the crucifixion; I believe Jesus died a horrible death in exchange for our sins. I also believe that everything we have was given to us as a blessing. Therefore, when I hear someone deny the existence of God, I instantly see that person as an ungrateful prick. Christians aren’t supposed to feel this way about others, but I just can’t help it. This is why I usually avoid religious discussions at all costs.

To part one I NEVER ONCE SAID I AM ATHEIST :) I never once said to them there God is not real. All I've ever asked is why do they belive there religion to be the right one? I was raised in a very strict Catholic family. I went to church every sunday and I had to do the sunday school deal, so I do know alittle about religion and the bible. You have proven my point though, I ask some stuff about religion , and because I don't think the same as you I am autmaticlly labeled atheist :rolleyes: You also call me an ungreatfull prick :eek: because I question the bible. Now do you see where Christians can be labeled as violent. I am just a curious person, I have a grandma in law that loves it when I question her Christianity. She tells me it makes her ask questions and makes her stronger in her faith. Which side of the fence are you on the good kind side or the I'll kick you in the nuts side if you don't believe the same as me.

The funny thing is I believe everything is created and alot of other stuff that you said. I do not deny that Jesus lived and that he was a holy person, but I do question whether he really his the son of the most powerfull force there ever was. Like I have said before people twist story's all the time. The bible was writen by man. Some people are already claiming we had the lamp of God here in modern time, WACO. What happens 3000 years from now when people claim him as the secound comming? I hope you understand what I am saying I am not bashing, I'm only questioning. There are many story's in the bible that could and some have been explained as being a disaster of nature. I quess the bottom line is it is just how a person looks at it. One person could say Lincoln was the best prez. and another could say JFK was.

"Probably the same as we view you now with all these "interesting" posts you come up with." - HaVoK

Errr... how is that?

Well what else can you be, but interesting? I find your posts original and interesting.

Originally posted by mad dog
You have proven my point though, I ask some stuff about religion , and because I don't think the same as you I am autmaticlly labeled atheist :rolleyes: You also call me an ungreatfull prick :eek: because I question the bible. Now do you see where Christians can be labeled as violent. I am just a curious person, I have a grandma in law that loves it when I question her Christianity. She tells me it makes her ask questions and makes her stronger in her faith. Which side of the fence are you on the good kind side or the I'll kick you in the nuts side if you don't believe the same as me.

There is nothing wrong with questioning religion or the bible. In fact, the pastor at my church actually encourages people to ask questions because that’s how you learn. Lots of Christians, including myself, still question some of God’s methods. What pisses me off is when someone tries to TELL me that God isn’t real or that the bible is wrong. A perfect example of this is aVaTaR trying to compare our beliefs with some medieval dungeons & dragons shit. You wouldn’t believe how many other aVaTaRs there are out there who would gladly say the same thing. These are the pathetic, ungrateful, miserable creatures whom I despise with a passion.

If you really are educated in Catholic beliefs, you should know why there is no way David Caresh (or whatever his name is) was the second coming of Christ. I doubt very seriously that Jesus Christ would kill fifty SWAT officers and torch himself along with a handful of other people.

Originally posted by Mopoloton
There is nothing wrong with questioning religion or the bible. In fact, the pastor at my church actually encourages people to ask questions because that’s how you learn. Lots of Christians, including myself, still question some of God’s methods. What pisses me off is when someone tries to TELL me that God isn’t real or that the bible is wrong. A perfect example of this is aVaTaR trying to compare our beliefs with some medieval dungeons & dragons shit. You wouldn’t believe how many other aVaTaRs there are out there who would gladly say the same thing. These are the pathetic, ungrateful, miserable creatures whom I despise with a passion.

If you really are educated in Catholic beliefs, you should know why there is no way David Caresh (or whatever his name is) was the second coming of Christ. I doubt very seriously that Jesus Christ would kill fifty SWAT officers and torch himself along with a handful of other people. Mop, you need to go to another church it seems. They are not teaching you what christianity is ALL about. Second to loving God, you should learn TOLERANCE. What possible threat is there for someone to say things you dont agree with about your religion? You are certainly not going to change anyone's mind if you continue to be an internet tough guy. The only reason you get mad at these people seems to me to be a lack of truly believing on your part. I could be wrong, but man, what is the use of this anger?

"These are the pathetic, ungrateful, miserable creatures whom I despise with a passion."

But I don't despise you... and I didn't learn that from the church ;)
I got nuttin but lub fo ma brudda'!

Avatar you crack me up.

Mopo I can understand why you would get upset, when a person believes something is true and someone else says it isn't humans tend to get pissed. My thing is when I ask for proof and they can't give it to me they get pissed(the old saying truth hurts) As Havok has said if you truly believe it to be true then just say I feel it in my heart(there is no way anybody can prove you wrong either). I hope you understand what I'm trying to say.. As far as the Waco issue how to we know what will be taught 3000 years from now, how do we know for sure there will be big Christian churches etc....? Jesus died once why wouldn't he do it again, this time he went out trying to rid the world of evil(in this case it was the ATF [not swat])Correct me if I'm wrong but in the secound comming isn't it believed that evil will die and good will live on? I am alittle rusty with the bible, I set it down many years ago, not because I thought it was stupid, I just started having to many questions that could not be answered only preached. The Bible is a good book and does have alot of history and meaning, but my BIG question is it really the ultimate truth? I don't think anyone can answer this because none of us were here when it was written. I'm not saying it is false I am just questioning it's authenticity, and I'm questioning the people that wrote it and put it together(4 I believe) You know as well as I that people have away of changing truths. Example you can have 10 people... I tell Bob that I have a cancer in one of my kidneys, but it is curable 99%. By the time it gets to Joebob I have cancer threw out my body and I've only got 1 month to live. You can even tell someone that you smashed your truck but had it repaired. You don't see that same person for 6 months, one day he asks you what type of new truck did you get because yours was totalled. You can take 50,000 people all watching the same news channel and they all still see something different. I hope you understand why I question religions..., the bible was written and is interpreted by man(person :D) and we all know that mans interpretation can really be screwed up.

Originally posted by HaVoK
Mop, you need to go to another church it seems. They are not teaching you what christianity is ALL about. Second to loving God, you should learn TOLERANCE. What possible threat is there for someone to say things you dont agree with about your religion? You are certainly not going to change anyone's mind if you continue to be an internet tough guy. The only reason you get mad at these people seems to me to be a lack of truly believing on your part. I could be wrong, but man, what is the use of this anger?
Actually, I don’t see those who insult God as a threat. I see them as disrespectful and insolent; not only to Christians, but to the creator of humankind as well. The only way to deal with people like this is to be just as disrespectful and insolent to them; it’s the only language they understand. I know Christians are supposed to be tolerant, but tolerance is a very difficult thing to master, especially with people like aVaTaR. Maybe someday I’ll be able to look the other way when I hear people deny God’s existence, but that day isn’t here yet.

Originally posted by mad dog
Avatar you crack me up.

Mopo I can understand why you would get upset, when a person believes something is true and someone else says it isn't humans tend to get pissed. My thing is when I ask for proof and they can't give it to me they get pissed(the old saying truth hurts) As Havok has said if you truly believe it to be true then just say I feel it in my heart(there is no way anybody can prove you wrong either). I hope you understand what I'm trying to say.. As far as the Waco issue how to we know what will be taught 3000 years from now, how do we know for sure there will be big Christian churches etc....? Jesus died once why wouldn't he do it again, this time he went out trying to rid the world of evil(in this case it was the ATF [not swat])Correct me if I'm wrong but in the secound comming isn't it believed that evil will die and good will live on? I am alittle rusty with the bible, I set it down many years ago, not because I thought it was stupid, I just started having to many questions that could not be answered only preached. The Bible is a good book and does have alot of history and meaning, but my BIG question is it really the ultimate truth? I don't think anyone can answer this because none of us were here when it was written. I'm not saying it is false I am just questioning it's authenticity, and I'm questioning the people that wrote it and put it together(4 I believe) You know as well as I that people have away of changing truths. Example you can have 10 people... I tell Bob that I have a cancer in one of my kidneys, but it is curable 99%. By the time it gets to Joebob I have cancer threw out my body and I've only got 1 month to live. You can even tell someone that you smashed your truck but had it repaired. You don't see that same person for 6 months, one day he asks you what type of new truck did you get because yours was totalled. You can take 50,000 people all watching the same news channel and they all still see something different. I hope you understand why I question religions..., the bible was written and is interpreted by man(person :D) and we all know that mans interpretation can really be screwed up.

For me, it’s much more than a feeling in the heart. I KNOW God exists because he’s proven his existence to me several times. I still have questions now and again, but that’s why we have preachers and ministers. It’s actually good to question the bible once and awhile; you learn more by asking questions rather than just “taking it on faith.”

Mad dog, if no one has ever given you a straight answer it’s because you’re looking in the wrong place. Have you ever been to a Wesleyan church? Wesleyans are much different than Baptists or Methodists; instead of preaching long sermons or giving you vivid descriptions of fire & brimstone, Wesleyans just give you straight answers to any question you may have. A Wesleyan church is the perfect place for someone who is not really religious, but just curious. I should know, I WAS that someone.

Originally posted by Mopoloton
Wesleyans are much different than Baptists or Methodists; instead of preaching long sermons or giving you vivid descriptions of fire & brimstone, Wesleyans just give you straight answers to any question you may have.

I would be extremely suspicious of anyone giving me straight answers to any question I may have.

Originally posted by astrapol2
I would be extremely suspicious of anyone giving me straight answers to any question I may have. Why?

Yes WHY?

Mopo it sounds like you have choose a path that is working for you(I think that is great) I have choose a different path, I still believe in God (or Gods)just not the same as Christians, close but different (if that makes sense).

Why ?
Because I think a spiritual question is a question that cannot be answered by simple and straight answers. Anyone who pretends to KNOW the TRUTH is IMO either a crook or a fanatic (sometimes both).
I am atheist but I understand one can find much wisdom and help in the words of a religious man. But I prefer religious men who admit they do not have the staright answers to everything to those whose certitudes are so strong that they let no room for questioning and debate.

Jesus never pretended to know the Truth.
When asked a question, he usually answered by another question or by a story which could be interpretated in many ways.

Mad dog, for what it’s worth, I think it’s the same God or gods. We just have different names for them.

Astrapol, you might be surprised at how many “spiritual” questions can be answered when you add a little logic and common sense. Wesleyans don’t PRETEND. If we don’t have an answer, we’ll just straight out tell you we don’t. Also, you're NOT an athiest if you believe in Jesus.