What? That's absurd. I believe Jesus existed and I'm an athiest. There's a whole bunch of historical evidence to support the existance of Jesus... Just no sound evidence to prove he was more than a man. I don't see where athism and believing historical documentation are tied together here...

“Atheist” is defined as a person who doesn’t believe in ANYTHING religious. Therefore, if you believe in Jesus, you’re not atheist.

a·the·ist n.

One who disbelieves or denies the existence of God or gods.

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So the claims that 'you believe in the existance of Jesus therefore you're a thiest' are wrong. You can be an atheist and believe that Jesus existed, but in being a true atheist, you would not believe that he was in any way the son of God, or God himself, rather you would simply believe that he existed as a human being.

Thank you Age.

I am also an atheist and I also believe Jesus existed, but not as the "son of God" or anything...but I am not well-enough versed in the Bible to make any more claims about him.

I know a few things, first, Jesus wasn't his name, that is a Greek translation of some Hebrew name, damn bible, stop lying about names. Also, the census thing to get Jesus to where David was born. HAHA, no, Romans would never run a census like that, too hectic. There are countless other things that say that Jesus never did exist in the way many say he did. There was a local preacher that was crucified in 30 A.D. His name was Bar-Elohim. That translates to Son of the Gods. He never shows up in the New Testament though.

There were several “holy men” in Jesus’ time, some were truthful and others were just fakers. It is almost certain that a few of these men claimed to be the Son of God. The reason Jesus was so well remembered is because he performed certain acts that PROVED he was the Son of God. If Jesus had just been some ordinary guy he would’ve been forgotten like the others.

Also, societies didn’t keep records or birth certificates in those days. The scriptures in the bible are the only written documents from that time period that still exists. Therefore, like it or not, the bible is currently the most reliable source we have.

Really? He has been proven to be the son of god? They got that on film do they? Man, I can't wait til it comes out on video! That should be worth at least $3.00...

Originally posted by Mopoloton
The reason Jesus was so well remembered is because he performed certain acts that PROVED he was the Son of God. If Jesus had just been some ordinary guy he would’ve been forgotten like the others.

He proved to the people that were there, if they are to be believed. But it certainly doesn't prove anything to me.

It's called a faith for a reason. I have faith that Jesus is the son of God, but I can't prove it, and neither can you.

For all we know, Heyzeus was merely a space traveler with plenty of "Star Trek" toys to play with.

Maybe he was the Son of God.

Since none of it can be proven, it's a leap of faith.

He proved to the people of his time that he was the Son of God. Unfortunately, these people didn’t have tape recorders or video cameras, so the only way to record an amazing event was to write it down. These scrolls and scriptures were passed down from one generation to the next.

Either way, anyone who is so well remembered for two thousand and three years MUST have done something spectacular.

Zeus has been remembered for thounsands of years. What did he do?

Zing!

Zeus is a myth Lionel, that’s why they call it “mythology.”

Heh, yup, he's... uhhh... got ya' there... :rolleyes:

Mopo maybe Jesus is a myth????? That is the thousand dollar question and as you have said where is the proof. We have books that were written. We also have books like War Of The Worlds, which story's are true and which ones are just really good story's of the imagination. If Jesus was really the son of the almighty being and there were that many people that believed in him then where are his remains? Where is the cross? Where are the clothes he wore? etc..... We know more about ancient man 50,000 years ago then we do about the man that called himself the son of God? If he was so important and admired by so many then what happened to the artifacts? There are many people and places that claim they have this or that but there really is NO proof that they have the real deal. We have more artifacts from dinosaurs then we do from THE SON OF GOD. This stricks me kind of funny if he really were the son of God then how in the heck did humans loose his sh**. If this is how we treat the real son of God then how could God even give 2 craps about us?

Mop. You are just going to have to accept that there are people in this world that do not think the same as you. What you accept on faith, others do not. You are not going to convince anyone to suddenly convert over to christianity if they have no desire to do so. So why bother?

Actually, he doesn't accept it on faith. That's why this whole proof thing started.

Originally posted by LionelHutz
Actually, he doesn't accept it on faith. That's why this whole proof thing started. I agree with that, but i was just trying to help him see the reality of the situation. None of us here are going to change our minds on an issue just because someone of differing opinions think we should. Not just religion but on any topic.

I agree with that, but i was just trying to help him see the reality of the situation. None of us here are going to change our minds on an issue just because someone of differing opinions think we should. Not just religion but on any topic.
That shouldn't be any reason to stop, the only reason we are on here is to bitch and argue with each other, so... let's continue.

I think you left a dookie in your panties!

Mad dog, you brought up a very interesting question: Where are Jesus’ remains? Jesus was known worldwide during his life and is just as well known over two thousand years after his death, yet his remains are nowhere to be found. The only explanation I can think of is that the bible story is true, Jesus’ physical body really did ascend into Heaven. How else could the remains of a man so well known be completely lost?

The difference between the bible and ancient mythology is that mythology can be traced back to it’s beginning, where it was created as fictional stories by the Greeks for amusement. Just like “War of the Worlds,” we KNOW mythology was meant to be fiction when it was written. The bible however, was never viewed as a bunch of fictional stories. As far back as documented history goes, people have always taken the bible seriously. During certain eras (like the crusades) the bible was taken VERY seriously. No civilized culture in history has ever viewed the bible as a work of fiction.

HaVoK, I know I can’t change everyone’s mind. I’m just putting in my two cents. That’s what this forum is all about, right? For the record, no one will ever change my mind either; I am convinced there is a God and I always will be.

The difference between the bible and ancient mythology is that mythology can be traced back to it’s beginning, where it was created as fictional stories by the Greeks for amusement.

Really... According to my knowledge, Greek mythology could only be traced back to the early peoples of Crete, who believed everything in nature had its own spirit. Kinda like Shinto and it's Kamis. Some people have theorized that they were stories of overglorified heros but I've yet to see where that was proven, but I suppose you don't really need it to be proven. BTW, have they proven that Buddha, Allah, and all the Hindu gods don't exist also? Probably, huh. I must be outta the loop or something... :rolleyes:

Originally posted by Mopoloton
Mad dog, you brought up a very interesting question: Where are Jesus’ remains? Jesus was known worldwide during his life and is just as well known over two thousand years after his death, yet his remains are nowhere to be found. The only explanation I can think of is that the bible story is true, Jesus’ physical body really did ascend into Heaven. How else could the remains of a man so well known be completely lost?

The same way the remains of Jesus's neighbor Bob, his daughter Hilda, his daughter's suitor Phil, and Phil's great-grandmother were.

There are millions upon millions of people from the time of Jesus until the present day who have remains that remain undiscovered. Bones decay, flesh rots, etc etc etc. According to the bible, Jesus bled, wept, ate, drank, and had a 'human' body... there is little more reason that his body would be found after all this time then the body of Alphonzo Gospodospo, Moses's brother's sister's goldfish's babysitter.

Originally posted by Mopoloton
The difference between the bible and ancient mythology is that mythology can be traced back to it’s beginning, where it was created as fictional stories by the Greeks for amusement. Just like “War of the Worlds,” we KNOW mythology was meant to be fiction when it was written. [/B]

Nothing could be more wrong ! Greek mythology is a long oral tradition of religious beliefs, quite similar to the Bible which present form has been written down only later. Many stories from the Bible are very similar to various older myths, mostly from Greek mythology and Mazdeism.

I didn't mean do change anybody's mind about which religion they believe in. I was just asking some questions that are interesting to me, sorry if I stepped on any body's toe's. I know that human flesh decays, I was just asking where things went. Look at king tut, or some of the other leaders of the world. They left alot of actual proof that they did live. I just find it interesting that this guy was the son of the perfect being but there is no proof except for a book that someone else wrote. If he were the real deal then why did he leave so many unanswered questions. There is a saying Jesus loves this I know......... My question is how do we know anything? where is the solid proof and why did he not stop all of the wars, hardships, etc.....

Originally posted by Age
The same way the remains of Jesus's neighbor Bob, his daughter Hilda, his daughter's suitor Phil, and Phil's great-grandmother were.
Jesus’ neighbor was just another face in the crowd, Jesus wasn’t. His name was universal in his time, and still is today. If the people were willing to keep his legacy alive for so long, it’s reasonable to assume they would’ve kept his remains well protected.

Greek mythology was created as a work of fiction for amusement purposes. No culture ever actually BELIEVED in Zeus or Thor or Odin. Television didn’t exist in those days, so these mythological stories were created as a form of entertainment.

Originally posted by Mopoloton
Greek mythology was created as a work of fiction for amusement purposes. No culture ever actually BELIEVED in Zeus or Thor or Odin. Television didn’t exist in those days, so these mythological stories were created as a form of entertainment.
Then why the hell did they build huge shrines, statues, etc? I don't see Homer Simpson statues littering today's cities.

No culture ever actually BELIEVED in Zeus or Thor or Odin.
Oh yes they did, and many still do. Look in the ten commandments "thou shall not worship no other god BEFORE me".

Originally posted by Mopoloton


Greek mythology was created as a work of fiction for amusement purposes. No culture ever actually BELIEVED in Zeus or Thor or Odin. Television didn’t exist in those days, so these mythological stories were created as a form of entertainment.

Monopoloton
What the hell makes you believe that ? Are you serious ? Have you studied religions ? I can't believe anyone with an interest for religion and myths and a minimum of culture can make such an obviously false statement !

If you really believe that, follow Borghunter's advice, go to Greece or Italy. There it is obvious the ancient Greks and Romans beleived in theses myths.
Actually, many christian representations are derived from these myths. The very figure of God is very similar to the Greek Zeus.

Because everyone builds something like the Parthenon for 'entertainment value'. And the altar in the center to Athena? Oh, that's just where they'd store their wine so the 'happy hour' would never end.

:rolleyes:

Happy hour never ending now there is a thought :D

A never-ending happy hour gets my vote.

Some kind of "happy eternity" ?

".....goin up the country where the water tastes like wine, goin up the country, gonna stay drunk all the time..."
thanx to country joe

Then why the hell did they build huge shrines, statues, etc? I don't see Homer Simpson statues littering today's cities.
No, but you see them littering every mall and store in America. Art was very significant to the ancient Greeks. These “shrines” were works of art and nothing more. Nobody ever actually worshipped them.

Oh yes they did, and many still do. Look in the ten commandments "thou shall not worship no other god BEFORE me".
That commandment was given in response to the golden calf.

The very figure of God is very similar to the Greek Zeus.
I see absolutely no similarities between God and the Greek god Zeus.

Monopoloton,
I am not going to argue with you over this anymore. Just buy a book about the history of religions and read it, please !

Astro, you know he wont. I think people like to be ignorant. They beleive ignorance is bliss. Just feel sorry for them.

In this age of political correctness, books on history of any kind have the same value and use as a roll of toilet paper.

Havok, do you have a better idea than reading books to get informed about the history of religions ? Fox news maybe ?

Well, rolls of toilet paper have quite a bit of use and value. You use it to keep your ass nice and clean, and you can tp houses. Asses are nice things to keep clean, otherwise they get all crusty. Like a person's standing in a debate if they don't bother to research anything.

I think you missed the point, Blib. I think he meant history books should be used as toilet paper. (Wow, what a mental leap. Brain fart, eh, Blib? :D) Not much use as that either, though, as the glossy-ish pages make for low absorbancy.

all hands!! abandon ship!! she's sinking fast!! all hands!! abandon ship!! she's heading into the toilet bow first!!

After 10 pages of babble that started out making fun of a few over-politically-correct morons, why am I not surprised?

;)

Actually, most books really aren’t very reliable because they are often just one author’s opinion, and we all know how I feel about opinions. How do you know the history book you read wasn’t written by some narrow-minded atheist? Background checks are very important these days.

Lots of people around here seem to get annoyed when a thread goes too long or changes topic. I don’t see what the big deal is. This forum was created on the principles of never-ending babble, right?

Originally posted by Blibblob
Astro, you know he wont. I think people like to be ignorant. They beleive ignorance is bliss. Just feel sorry for them.
Since when were you into books? You never even finished high school.

I think you missed the point, Blib. I think he meant history books should be used as toilet paper. (Wow, what a mental leap. Brain fart, eh, Blib? ) Not much use as that either, though, as the glossy-ish pages make for low absorbancy.
Actually, it looks like he was comparing values, not calling it a piece of toilet paper.

Actually, most books really aren’t very reliable because they are often just one author’s opinion, and we all know how I feel about opinions. How do you know the history book you read wasn’t written by some narrow-minded atheist? Background checks are very important these days.
That's why you read many different kinds of books, by many different authors with difering opinions. I'm reading Nietzche(Beyond Good and Evil) and Ellison(Invisible Man) right now.

Since when were you into books? You never even finished high school.
I've always had a book fetish. They smell good.... New ones, and ones that are at least 2 decades old smell the best, in between it starts to get nasty. Oh, about reading the books. I read lots of books. What else is a loser supposed to do? Sit there and feel sorry about himself?

Originally posted by Mopoloton
Actually, most books really aren’t very reliable because they are often just one author’s opinion, and we all know how I feel about opinions. How do you know the history book you read wasn’t written by some narrow-minded atheist? Background checks are very important these days.


OK. So you never read a book. How do you get information ? Directly from God (or Zeus ?)

Originally posted by astrapol2
OK. So you never read a book. How do you get information ? Directly from God (or Zeus ?)
Read the quote more carefully astrapol. Notice where I said background checks are very important. I only purchase a book if it’s from a notable author with a good reputation. Someone who knows what he (or she) is talking about.

OK, sorry for the bad interpretation.

So, to be back on the topic : where did you get the strange idea that greek mythology was supposed to be fiction ? From which author with a good reputation ?

I learned most of it from the History Channel, there’s also an old Reader’s Digest book called “Into the Unknown” that has a reference to it. How’d we get on the subject of Greek mythology anyway? I actually don’t remember what the original topic of this thread was.

Speaking of books, have you ever read “Saved by the Light” by Danion Brinkly? It’s quite interesting.

I doubt very much that History Channel or the Reader's Digest, usually reliable sources, would pretend greek mythology was not a religion.

I do not know the book you mentioned. What is it about ?

I have watched the history channel many times and I have never heard anything about Greek mythology being false, infact it is the other way around.

The book I mentioned was written by a man who allegedly had two “out-of-body experiences” in his life. It’s the type of book that makes for a good discussion, or argument.

As far as that History Channel/ Readers Digest stuff goes, I’m just telling you what I saw.

Well, while I'M an atheist (swear ta God!), I DO git a little nervous over whether or not there's a Santa... 'cuz at least there wuz SOME proof of that when I wuz a little kid...

As fer all these Christians who KNOW there's a God, it's quite interestin' how they attack each other over just which kinda God that would be...

Maybe some buddy oughtta Buddha their buns outta here... zen we could finally have a little peace on Earth...

Thanks fer listenin', ya little devils... ;)