hello - this discussion is aimed at the ladies. men can join if they wish, but primarily for ladies who are bold and honest enough to face the truth.

i'm going to start this with a simple question rather than a long introduction, then we'll see where it goes from there:

why is it that you discriminate against "short" men in relationships?

honest, heartfelt responses will be appreciated and treated with respect. be prepared, however, for a very intense debate.

thank you in advance, r k

When you put "short" in quotation marks, it makes me wonder if you're using it as a euphemism for something else...

If you're indeed talking about short as in height, then I can answer... if not, you need to clarify.

;)

age, thank you for responding.

for the record, yes, i am discussing height. i am 5'4". i imagine i will be going into my own story eventually. i have posed and had this debate before. i'm feeling a need to gain more input. please respond if you wish, though my reply will come later - need to rest now.

i use the quotations to indicate that "short" appears to be a derisive status for a man in society. and, i'm not too thrilled about that. hence, the quotations.

r k

How can you have an intense debate over height? What's the big deal with height! Shorty!

the "big deal" is that discrimination against the
"short" man happens to be a "safe" bastion for bigotry, blibblob. your asinine comment proves that.

r k

Asinine comment? The last part? I was joking. This topic would appear rather dry. It seems you have been discriminated against because you are short. Well, quick answer for that one. Don't hang around with morons that close minded. Try finding people who look at personality and don't care about height... why the hell would anybody care about height anyways?

that's what i'm trying to find out.

If a woman only looks at your height and refuses you on that basis, she's not worth your time anyway.

Aside from that, one reason might be that women are very self-concious, and tend to want things to be a certain way. Most women want a sense of security sometimes, which I suppose is assumed that "bigger" guys can provide. Women also want to appear to be feminine, and if the guy they are with is shorter then them, and could possibly wear a smaller dress size, that doesn't really lend itself to that desire.

However, women who refuse to give a man a chance just because of his height, build, race, appearance etc. aren't worth being concerned over anyway. You wouldn't want to be in a relationship with a fickle, superficial, self-possessed bitch, would you?

As far as I'm concerned, it's the person. How they carry themselves, how they act, who they are that matters to me as to if I would be attracted to them, not their height.

But I'm probably biased as I'm only 5'4, and "short" too. ;)

age - if you're female and 5'4", you're not short. and if you are female, it wouldn't matter as much anyway (i'll take on anyone who wants to dispute that comment). i'm not prepared to go into my personal details yet. if/when the traffic here demands it, i will. then the real fireworks start.

your comment seems to imply that it is the exception ("bitches", i think you said) who practice this discrimination. how does that explain the fact that EVERY ad i've seen on personals sites, from ALL kinds of women (big, small, short - 4'0" - tall, even disabled) specify "needing" a man to be taller. i have found that when one (short man) "responds to these ads anyway" those "needs" are reinforced by the fact that aformentioned "short man" receives no response whatsoever. even after hundreds of attempts. and no, i'm not the only one noticing this social phenomenon.


r k

age - i believe your answer to my initial question points out a base level insecurity that i believe most women, unfortunately, suffer from.

how "secure" do you think nicole simpson and lacey peterson are? after all, they did choose such "wonderfully tall" men.

r k

All women are insecure to a degree. Jeeze, look at the media women are brought up with. Sure society might discriminate against short men, but no more then it discriminates against women in a bunch of different ways.

I agree with you that it's wrong. I don't think that a guy should feel like he isn't desireable just because he's lacking a few inches in height. The same thing in a woman shouldn't feel like she's not desireable if she doesn't have D-cup breasts and a 20 inch waist.

Society's fickle, and it raises fickle individuals. Unfortunately you need to look to the exceptions to the rule, to find people who look past any physical attribute to the person inside.

I do agree with you that it's wrong for society to behave the way it does, and continue to force unreachable standards on people, so there's no need to be defensive in your posts. :) We're in agreement here, not two different sides.

age - i can see that you're on the "same side". when you say "you have to look to the exceptions...", are you stating the collective "you", as in "we"? or are you addressing me as a "short" man - that a short man must seek "exceptions" since the "rule" is that most women will not accept him?

i'm probably more OFFensive than defensive. i must confess i've done a number of these online debates about this subject, and i take a very fierce stand on fighting this prejudice. in the growing "short man" movement, i'm a warrior not a reconciler.

since you seem to agree that the short man faces very real problems, and i presume you would agree it has not been adequately addressed, what do you suggest to be done about it?

r k

I'm addressing 'You' as everyone. Everyone who isn't exactly what they show on TV, what the media presents to us as what we must be. If you're not part of that 1% of the population, you're already discriminated against. (Unfortunately this doesn't stop some people from turning around and discriminating against other people... but I can't change that).

We're all discriminated against because society is fickle and superficial. It fricking sucks, but...

*shrug* You deal with it, and move on. You find people who care about you for who you are, and you ignore the rest.

Anyone over 68" in height is abnormal. I've been the same height since I was 12 (a very long time ago): 63.5"

Look "short." Women discriminate against all kind of men - short men, smelly men, men with freckles, men with big noses, fat men, men with moles in really bad places, men with genetically messed up feet. I'm not saying that it doesn't suck, but it's the human condition. You're no worse off then some guy with really bad eyesight who can't drive and has to wear incredibly thick glasses. Of course it goes without saying that men do the same thing to women.

so, once one finds that he is fortunate enough to be in this class of men against whom women so relentlessly discriminate, where to go from there?

my question is not directed at "short" women, it is directed at "all" women and their prejudice against the "short" man.

r k

All women and their prejudice against short men?

All women would include me, and I have no prejudice against 'short' men.

So you're short. Get over it. Everyone has something they don't like about themselves, you just acknowledge it, change it if you can, and if you can't, you realize it's a part of who you are, and move on.

If you continually focus on it, you'll live a pretty pathetic existence. Not to mention you'll piss off the majority of people you deal with. "Woe is me, I'm short"... no one wants to listen to that. Have pride in yourself, and screw anyone who wants to insult you for something you don't control. Their loss.

age - let me ask you a question, and i'm not trying to be combative here, just honest:

i'm sure you've heard (and may have used) expressions like "tall, dark, handsome" - or any other flattering description of men using the word "tall" (again, i say you MAY have used these terms - i'll leae open the possibility that your among the infitesimal number who has not).

here's the question to you:

have you ever, or have you ever heard other women describe men in a flattering way utilizing the word "short"?

again, i'm not being combative here, but would really appreciate an honest answer.

thank you, r k

Do you ever hear the phrase "Tall, fat and blonde" for a woman?

age - no, i haven't. the only part of that comment that i an say legitimately reflects a bias most men have regarding women is "fat". yes, mn do practice this bias and they do so knowingly.

the difference, i believe with women and "short" men is that i believe many women are not even conscious that they have this bias (one of my aims is to expose this and break down denial). being overweight is a condition that many, many people can in some way change - being a "short" man is a condition no man can change.

by the way, i have checked the personals of overweight women too - guess what? they also prefer to not be with "short" men.

here's another thing i've noticed: men do discriminate against obese women, primarily because they (the men themselves) consider that appearance unsightly. i have seen many comments from women that indicate they won't be seen with a "short" man because of how OTHERS will perceive this appearance. what do you think this means?

you haven't answered my question as to whether you have made or heard flattering statements about men that incllude the word "short".

thanks again, r k

Yes I have heard flattering comments about short men. Specific statements including the word short? Not from memory... but I can think of a good number of 'short' men, whom I find attractive.

There's no 'denial' over whether or not women discriminate against short men. Some do, some don't.

I'll discriminate more against someone that can't accept themselves for who they are, and instead seek to change and gain approval from the rest of the world instead of seeking it where they really need it... From themselves.

"short people aint go no reason to live" Does anyone remember that song.

Age I think you are doing a fine job, If someone is short then so be it. Actually I saw this show on a medical channel once that could make people taller. They break your legs then build the bone so that you can gain a couple of inches. Seems stupid to me, be happy with your self and get on with life. If your hanging around with people that pick at things like hieght then they probably are shallow, and not worth your time.

when a girl really loves u,,i mean when she is in love with u,,what she loves should be ur personality,that what we call true love,if no,,,the love ain't true,,,and throw it away

Just happened to find this thread that I had never seen before and had to comment. I am 6'1 and my husband is 5'10. Now maybe he wouldn't be considered short, but he is shorter than me and it makes no difference at all. Before I met B_V, I dated alot of guys that were taller than me and were complete pricks. When B_V and I started dating, I was happy that he was a decent guy. I didn't care how tall he was. So basically what I am saying is you go for personality, NOT size.

Originally posted by Swede
Just happened to find this thread that I had never seen before and had to comment. I am 6'1 and my husband is 5'10. Now maybe he wouldn't be considered short, but he is shorter than me and it makes no difference at all. Before I met B_V, I dated alot of guys that were taller than me and were complete pricks. When B_V and I started dating, I was happy that he was a decent guy. I didn't care how tall he was. So basically what I am saying is you go for personality, NOT size.


You'd be with him if he was 5'4"?

That doesn't even pass the "smile" test.

I see the size of children means something to you. How about the sex?

So, if its a boy, you won't be considering "Look how tall..." as some kind of compliment?

As I said...

r k

I prefer a man taller (and larger) then me because it feels protective to me. I like that feeling. I've dated men shorter then me. I've dated men taller then me. I married one taller then me.

Why are women prejudice against short men? Why are most all men prejudice against plump women? It's ok for men to be plump but not for women. It is totally more socially acceptable for men to be plump then it is women. that's a fact. Just as it is socially more acceptable for women to be short then it is men. I suppose it's just one of those things we need to either accept and embrace or get over.

If there is any thing at all to this size thing. O f which I am not sure. It could be a inherited trait of reproducing with the largest bull in the herd type thing that is seen in nature.

Originally posted by Age
Do you ever hear the phrase "Tall, fat and blonde" for a woman?

I use that phrase a lot. Well, more like "Short, fat, and dark haired"; but it's similar.

Just lettin' ya know that there are the men who like that, just like there are the women who like the short, fat men. :)

Hi I read this earlier this afternoon, and it's interesting and caused me to think deeper on something I honestly haven't consciously considered.

First off, I noticed you using the terms biased and prejudiced a lot. I think saying that most or all women are predjudiced against shorter guys would be like me saying that Vile Pagan is predjudiced against women for not giving me a chance. Ludicrous on both parts. See vile isn't predjudiced against women, they are just not what he is physically attracted to. Doesn't mean he won't give me a chance on a personal or intellectual level, he just doesn't want to get with me, cause I don't turn his crank.

I only speak for myself, but Pyhsically, on an initial basis, a man of stature much shorter than myself, probably would not spark my interest as fast as a big tall guy.

NOw why? There could be several reasons for this, although I can't say for sure what it might be, I'll take a stab.

People, are visiually stimulated and attracted to each other for different reasons, but there are some things that I think apply to a lot of warm blooded animals.

For instance take primates. Look at the other species of great apes, orangs, gorillas and chimps. The males are noticeably larger than females, in each species. For several practical reasons. Larger males tend to establish dominance in the group through aggressiveness and intimidation, for the purpose of attaining females, and the ability to breed with them. The displays they put on to demonstrate their dominance and pyhsical superiority, are for the most part for the female.
She on the other hand looks to these larger, stronger pyhsical characteristics to tell her that her offspring will be protected by him from predators and competing males. SHe also is hoping to have the strongest babies, for an increased chance of survival. .

These types of physical characteristics can be found throughout scores of different species. And they can differ in the same species from group to group, explaining our human societies varying standards of beauty.

I think it is something carried over from a time where such things aren't as relavent..

I can't really say why I like big strong guys, or why Vile might like them too.

All in all the term "short" is only relevant.

I don't think a girl who is 5 foot would see you as short.

Originally posted by creetwins

I can't really say why I like big strong guys, or why Vile might like them too.


mmm...big and strong...:D

Actually I've never paid much attention to stature at all...I prefer a quick mind, pretty eyes, and a nice smile...:)

Originally posted by "short" man
You'd be with him if he was 5'4"?

That doesn't even pass the "smile" test.

I see the size of children means something to you. How about the sex?

So, if its a boy, you won't be considering "Look how tall..." as some kind of compliment?

As I said...

r k

Wow. Who's been picking on you your entire life? Hun, I wouldn't have cared if he was a midget. He's a wonderful human being and that's what really matters.

And no, I wouldn't care how tall my boys are going to be. I have two sons and never even worried about how tall they are or are going to be. The only reason I have my daughters baby game on here is because it helps her to think of something OTHER than the pre-cancerous cells they have found in her cervix. I am trying to make this a happy pregnancy for her. I don't want her to spend the whole time worrying about whether she is going to be able to be around for this childs life or not. It has absolutely NOTHING to do with "Oh gee, I really hope this new baby is going to be tall because we all know that being tall is what it's all about!" Get a grip dude. Life is too short (pardon the pun) to worry about how freaking tall you are and what other people think about it!

I apologize to the rest of the all forums gang for getting rather rude here, but this just hit me wrong.

Originally posted by Swede
The only reason I have my daughters baby game on here is because it helps her to think of something OTHER than the pre-cancerous cells they have found in her cervix.

Huh??? How terrible! I hope all goes well with this.

You are right. Many women are not turned on by short men. Is this discrimination? No. Is it being discriminating? Yes. Most men are not turned on by big womem, is it discrimination? No. It is being discriminating. We are all discriminating in the kind of clothes we wear, friends we keep and people we are attracted to.

I am not attracted to short men. Who wants to gaze longingly into the part of a guys hair, or his bald spot. I enjoy the feel of strong arms around me. With a small man, little arms around my thigh doesn't feel the same as big strong arms around my whole body. It's like hugging a child. Dancing with a short man is awkward. lol - I can only imagine trying to make love with his tiny little body balancing on my pelvic bone, short arms and short legs sticking out, flapping, in an effort to keep from tipping off.

And there is another aspect. Small men tend to have napoleon complex's. They seem to think they have to prove themselves because they are short. Not all, but a large majority of the short men I know have a chip on the shoulder attitude. (Is it because they can't get laid?)

I also think that many people associate a persons body size with their sexual organ size. Thus small men are small and big women are big. Making both even less attractive as sexual partners.


It is unfortunate that humans are so visually oriented. The nicest, most wonderfull person in the world can be butt ugly and most people would not take the time to get to know them because of their looks.

What movie was this from> - Beauty is only skin deap, but ugly is to the bone.

how tall is everybody here? I have never really thought about it until now, but now i am curious. i am 6'2" tall. I saw ES calling anyone over 68" tall "abnormal", I was wondering why this is. is anyone 6 feet tall or taller abnormal?

I am 5"9' flat footed. But in CFM's I am 6"1'.

CFM's?

I'm 5'6"... 5'10" or 5'11" in my shoes :D

I had a friend who had half a foot or more high boots. She came up to my chest in them, and I'm really not that tall of a guy. I'm also horrid at guessing heights and distances.

Originally posted by Blibblob
I had a friend who had half a foot or more high boots. She came up to my chest in them, and I'm really not that tall of a guy. I'm also horrid at guessing heights and distances.
Jackie?

Yes, I think her name is spelled Jaki though.

6-1 barefooted.
210 bareassed.

6'1 barefooted also...:eek: hehe

6'0"

6'0", 185 lbs, for those who are interested...

everyones' so tall.....I'm only 5 feet. all my freinds make fun of me for being so teeny, and apparently the perfect height for my head or shoulders to be used as arm rests. sputnik calls me a hobbit all the time, because I'm so short.

I am 5 foot 4 inches. Husband is 5 foot 11 inches.

5 foot 8 here........

6'1 or 6'2

OK grandmas and grandpas,

Talk to the wrist, the hand is pist! The last time I thopught about height was either in elementary school or when I fell off my dinosaur, I can’t remember which. It is sooooooo 2 milleniums ago!!!! PUH-LEEEEESE grow up, smell the coffee and get with the NOW!!!! I’m 6’2” tall, and my fiancee is 5’4” tall. I’m 23 and he’s 32. He makes more money in a month than most Americans do in a year. He has an IQ of 161 and a member of mensa. He has a very successful engineering consulting company. He has black belts in 3 different styles of martial arts, and a master instructors rating in one of them. He plays the drums and piano as good as anyone I’ve ever heard. So much for stereo types of short men!!!! We travel all over the world together, on both business and pleasure. In the last 3 years since we have been together I had to get my passport replaced because all the pages were used up with stamps. As for IQ, there is no corelation between height and IQ either way. AND, most of you “grandparents” with your cavemen attitudes would have nothing to do with the likes of Brad Pitt (5’7”) or Tom Cruise (5’6”). So please - go tell it to someone else.

Sandy.

You tell 'em

Hey, whatever you like! To each their own right?