I chuckle, somewhat, when I hear or read where someone says "but those are not the peaceful principles that America was built on and stands for.

Several things always go through my mind.

In spite of the pretty pictures that people like to paint of this country we do have a quite shaded past.
The land itself was either taken from the American Indians, Mexican people, French and anyone else that got in the way. Murder of men, women and children-sometimes used-when outright theft did not work.

For whatever reason we fought and killed the British.

The blacks were enslaved, treated harshly in many cases, rape and murder included.

Some of the original settlers went through a period of religious intolerance, including the organized murder of so called witches.

We even had murderous range wars among settlers out west.

There was the Civil War. No one really knows how many killed and maimed.

Various wars, for whatever reason, has cost millions of lives.

Sometimes I wonder if we do not get our imaginary ideals of perfection mixed up with reality when we speak of our founding principals.
If this is true, we might unjustly judge another country or people that are going through the problems of trials and errors of attempts at civilization.

America seems to be the greatest nation on earth. We are lucky to live here.
We just need to realize that other peoples may not view our past and principals as we do.

Just food for thought when you view the rest of the world.

Despite all the hooplah, we Americans are, for better or worse, just like everybody else. So everybody just calm down and accept it already!

Side note about the Salem Witch trials--there's a theory about that these people were executed because of a plot to take their land. IOW, the charges were falsified.

Oh yes, we have a long and violent history. And it's kept up since the first landing at Jamestowne.
But out of all this bad, something good was created. A noble ideal that still means much to many.

But basically, as human beings, we're no better or no worse than anyone else.

Great post, Dan. Reminds me of when people always talk about how wonderful the 50s were.

Great post, Dan. Reminds me of when people always talk about how wonderful the 50s were.

I always wanted to see Ward Cleaver supoenaed to appear before the House Unamerican Activities Commitee to testify about that night in college he accepted a leaflet from a known communist. The next week they could have shown how he was blacklisted and the family lost their home. Ward gets a job as a slaughterhouse worker, and June becomes a maid for Eddie Haskell's mother. The Beaver joins a gang in his new urban high school and winds up in prison.

America seems to be the greatest nation on earth. We are lucky to live here.
We just need to realize that other peoples may not view our past and principals as we do. Since we're so privledged we should be doing everything in our power to make sure that no one else has to suffer the inhumanities of the world. That means an opposition to war becuase war is just a specific type of terrorism. Promoting a living wage and environmental standards on any country who wishes to trade with us.

This is what people will see and respect. People can not bomb the past. They remember to learn from it. The sooner we start promoting these values the sooner there will come a time no one remembers anything but. America seems to forget that the rest of the world is far more forgiving then we are.

The land itself was either taken from the American Indians, Mexican people, French and anyone else that got in the way.
:confused: The French sold us their territory. Louisiana purchase, much???

That said, what right would they have to this land over the vastly superior British? (And no, I'm not biased ;))

:confused: The French sold us their territory. Louisiana purchase, much???

That said, what right would they have to this land over the vastly superior British? (And no, I'm not biased ;))
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Quick reference to the French and Indian War-name given by American historians to the North American colonial wars, which were strung out over 1689-1763. (A conflict on present day American and Canadian soil)

The thing I'll add is that America is self criticizing, very much so. Look at the posts by DanF and Guerilla.

The U.S. states that we're a peace loving people, yet look at all the wars we've gotten ourselves into...........

You've brought up some good points Dan, our history is not that of a peaceful society.

Here's a question for you; should we be a peaceful society or is our rank in the world completely tied to military power?

You've brought up some good points Dan, our history is not that of a peaceful society.

Here's a question for you; should we be a peaceful society or is our rank in the world completely tied to military power?
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Not being some sort of expert, all I can give is my opinion, for what it is worth.
In real life it truly does seem that " on the side of might, is right."
In my fantasy world, I would love for the country to be able to be peaceful and caring. A country where sincere interest for the safety and welfare of others is the rule, not the exception. A place where guns and knives are tools, not weapons. An environment where children could be safe and women could go out at night, alone, with no fear of molestation of any sort.
A place where the hungry are fed and the sick are tended.
Locks are only to keep the wind out. Politicians serve the people without consideration of self. Countries have open borders, and citizens can welcome the helpful people that enter.

Countries share technologies, barter crops, medicines, and manufactured goods.

All countries destroy weapons of war because no one wants that which he has not earned.

But, unfortunately real life is not like that. To be peaceful today is to seem weak and vulverable. Vulnerable to those that wish to spread their desires upon others with force, if necessary.

If we could make a united-sincere effort at peace, and keep a strong trump card, we may make progress. Unfortunately those that desire such do not seem to attain the power, to coin a phrase, win friends and influence people.
Should the world ever replace greed with humanitarian feelings we might be able to toss away the trump card.

Somehow leaders must be put in place that have intelligence, strength, and big hearts. We have few, in a generally unpeaceful world.

Right now, yes, our rank in the world is tied to military might. Wouldn't it be nice if we were a superpower because of our intelligence, charity, and ability to teach humanity to be self sufficient and safe.

That reminds me of a discussion my philosophy class had. We were studying Lao Tsu and Machiavelli and our discussion was on what would have happened if the two cultures met.

Lao preached a peaceful society with no weapons where everyone would do what was required to survive and to enjoy what they had (he didn't care much for technology or schooling). Machiavelli on the other hand preached practicality to the extreme. Violence when neccesary; make examples of people to instill fear, but not so much as to cause hatred. He didn't believe that love carried much weight in politics (which it doesn't).

Anyways, if those two cultures met, Machiavelli's culture would simply invade the peaceful society and take it over; like a peaceful society of gnats' first introduction to the Orkin man

Just because you have a peaceful society does not mean that people cannot deffend themselves.

I believe there has been scant discussion and a much blurred line between self-defense and agression. Would you call a man who defended himself against an attacker violent? I wouldn't. By defending ones self you are actually stopping further injustices from taking place.

These ideas are often misused to justify aggression.

That is why I would suggest dissolving the US military (or any military for that matter). The people of the US are armed to the teeth. We could fend off any invasion easily, that was the whole point of the second amendment. The military has only been an instrument of imperialism/colonialism.

So:
Apologize to the world community for past misdeeds.
Execute those responsible for said misdeeds.
Dissolve the military and announce that the American people are well armed and can take care of themselves.

Poof no more enemies. Except of course the power mongers that already exist inside our society. That is why it would never happen. Because the military isn't just responsible for imperialism. They are also to protect exploitive politicians from the will of the people. Thats why the police forces have been militarized and centralized.

But again, if the people truely defended themselves these scum suckers would no longer exist.

You Americans are used by the British,ever since ww1.

You Americans are used by the British,ever since ww1.
You're just jaded. ;)

I know.
Why are you not out enjoying yourself tonite,you sad thing.

I'm drunk as shit!!!

I'm waiting at a friend's house for him to bathe and get ready to go downtown.

Drunk meself.Dont be doung anything I wouldnt do downtown my friend.

You're right. The US was born out of a war and has succeeded through its military might. As a military power, the US has no equal.That's fine for those on the same side as the US.

On the other side, the US seems to be bankrupt politically. Since the early 20th Century, US politicians have talked about winning the hearts and minds of other peoples. Unfortunately, other peoples do not always have the same type of thinking as the US citizens. Not surprisingly then, the US fails in its objectives. Wilson's League of Nations and Roosevelt's United Nations are two examples of such failures.
OK, I've been very brief to keep the post short and make the point. There have been some political successes, Japan for example, though that was MacArthur, rather than Truman.