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Socialist
09-17-2006, 09:40 PM
"Every Generation of Arabs Hates Israel More Than the Last"
By Uri Avnery; 28 August 2006 from ZNet

In his latest speech, which infuriated so many people, Syrian President Bashar al-Assad uttered a sentence that deserves attention: "Every new Arab generation hates Israel more than the previous one."

Of all that has been said about the Second Lebanon War, these are perhaps the most important words.

The main product of this war is hatred. The pictures of death and destruction in Lebanon entered every Arab home, indeed every Muslim home, from Indonesia to Morocco, from Yemen to the Muslim ghettos in London and Berlin. Not for an hour, not for a day, but for 33 successive days - day after day, hour after hour. The mangled bodies of babies, the women weeping over the ruins of their homes, Israeli children writing "greetings" on shells about to be fired at villages, Ehud Olmert blabbering about "the most moral army in the world" while the screen showed a heap of bodies.

Israelis ignored these sights, indeed they were scarcely shown on our TV. Of course, we could see them on Aljazeera and some Western channels, but Israelis were much too busy with the damage wrought in our Northern towns. Feelings of pity and empathy for non-Jews have been blunted here a long time ago.

But it is a terrible mistake to ignore this result of the war. It is far more important than the stationing of a few thousand European troops along our border, with the kind consent of Hizbullah. It may still be bothering generations of Israelis, when the names Olmert and Halutz have long been forgotten, and when even Nasrallah no longer remember the name Amir Peretz.

IN ORDER for the significance of Assad's words to become clear, they have to be viewed in a historical context.

The whole Zionist enterprise has been compared to the transplantation of an organ into the body of a human being. The natural immunity system rises up against the foreign implant, the body mobilizes all its power to reject it. The doctors use a heavy dosage of medicines in order to overcome the rejection. That can go on for a long time, sometimes until the eventual death of the body itself, including the transplant.

(Of course, this analogy, like any other, should be treated cautiously. An analogy can help in understanding things, but no more than that.)

The Zionist movement has planted a foreign body in this country, which was then a part of the Arab-Muslim space. The inhabitants of the country, and the entire Arab region, rejected the Zionist entity. Meanwhile, the Jewish settlement has taken roots and become an authentic new nation rooted in the country. Its defensive power against the rejection has grown. This struggle has been going on for 125 years, becoming more violent from generation to generation. The
last war was yet another episode.

WHAT IS our historic objective in this confrontation?

A fool will say: to stand up to the rejection with a growing dosage of medicaments, provided by America and World Jewry. The greatest fools will add: There is no solution. This situation will last forever. There is nothing to be done about it but to defend ourselves in war after war after war. And the next war is already knocking on the door.

The wise will say: our objective is to cause the body to accept the transplant as one of its organs, so that the immune system will no longer treat us as an enemy that must be removed at any price. And
if this is the aim, it must become the main axis of our efforts. Meaning: each of our actions must be judged according to a simple criterion: does it serve this aim or obstruct it?

According to this criterion, the Second Lebanon War was a disaster.

FIFTY NINE years ago, two months before the outbreak of our War of Independence, I published a booklet entitled "War or Peace in the Semitic Region". Its opening words were:

"When our Zionist fathers decided to set up a 'safe haven' in Palestine, they had a choice between two ways:

"They could appear in West Asia as a European conqueror, who sees himself as a bridge-head of the 'white' race and a master of the 'natives', like the Spanish Conquistadores and the Anglo-Saxon colonists in America. That is what the Crusaders did in Palestine.

"The second way was to consider themselves as an Asian nation returning to its home - a nation that sees itself as an heir to the political and cultural heritage of the Semitic race, and which is prepared to join the peoples of the Semitic region in their war of liberation from European exploitation."

As is well known, the State of Israel, which was established a few months later, chose the first way. It gave its hand to colonial France, tried to help Britain to return to the Suez Canal and, since 1967, has become the little sister of the United States.

That was not inevitable. On the contrary, in the course of years there have been a growing number of indications that the immune system of the Arab-Muslim body is starting to incorporate the transplant - as a human body accepts the organ of a close relative - and is ready to accept us. Such an indication was the visit of Anwar Sadat to Jerusalem. Such was the peace treaty signed with us by King Hussein, a descendent of the Prophet. And, most importantly, the historic decision of Yasser Arafat, the leader of the Palestinian people, to make peace with Israel.

But after every huge step forward, there came an Israeli step backward. It is as if the transplant rejects the body's acceptance of it. As if it has become so accustomed to being rejected, that it does all it can to induce the body to reject it even more.

It is against this background that one should weigh the words spoken by Assad Jr., a member of the new Arab generation, at the end of the recent war.

AFTER EVERY single one of the war aims put forward by our government had evaporated, one after the other, another reason was brought up: this war was a part of the "clash of civilizations", the great campaign of the Western world and its lofty values against the barbarian darkness of the Islamic world.

That reminds one, of course, of the words written 110 years ago by the father of modern Zionism, Theodor Herzl, in the founding document of the Zionist movement: "In Palestine we shall constitute for Europe a part of the wall against Asia, and serve as the vanguard of civilization against barbarism." Without knowing, Olmert almost repeated this formula in his justification of his war, in order to please President Bush.

It happens from time to time in the United States that somebody invents an empty but easily digested slogan, which then dominates the public discourse for some time. It seems that the more stupid the slogan is, the better its chances of becoming the guiding light for academia and the media - until another slogan appears and supersedes it. The latest example is the slogan "Clash of Civilizations", coined by Samuel P. Huntington in 1993 (taking over from the "End of History").

What clash of ideas is there between Muslim Indonesia and Christian Chile? What eternal struggle between Poland and Morocco? What is it that unifies Malaysia and Kosovo, two Muslim nations? Or two Christian nations like Sweden and Ethiopia?

In what way are the ideas of the West more sublime than those of the East? The Jews that fled the flames of the auto-da-fe of the Christian Inquisition in Spain were received with open arms by the Muslim Ottoman Empire. The most cultured of European nations democratically elected Adolf Hitler as its leader and perpetrated the Holocaust, without the Pope raising his voice in protest.

In what way are the spiritual values of the United States, today's Empire of the West, superior to those of India and China, the rising stars of the East? Huntington himself was compelled to admit: "The West won the world not by the superiority of its ideas or values or religion, but rather by its superiority in applying organized violence. Westerners often forget this fact, non-Westerners never do." In the West, too, women won the vote only in the 20th century,
and slavery was abolished there only in the second half of the 19th. And in the leading nation of the West, fundamentalism is now also raising its head.

What interest, for goodness sake, have we in volunteering to be a political and military vanguard of the West in this imagined clash?

THE TRUTH is, of course, that this entire story of the clash of civilizations is nothing but an ideological cover for something that has no connection with ideas and values: the determination of the United States to dominate the world's resources, and especially oil.

The Second Lebanon War is considered by many as a "War by Proxy". That's to say: Hizbullah is the Dobermann of Iran, we are the Rottweiler of America. Hizbullah gets money, rockets and support from the Islamic Republic, we get money, cluster bombs and support from the United States of America.

That is certainly exaggerated. Hizbullah is an authentic Lebanese movement, deeply rooted in the Shiite community. The Israeli government has its own interests (the occupied territories) that do not depend on America. But there is no doubt that there is much truth in the argument that this was also a war by substitutes.

The US is fighting against Iran, because Iran has a key role in the region where the most important oil reserves in the world are located. Not only does Iran itself sit on huge oil deposits, but through its revolutionary Islamic ideology it also menaces American control over the near-by oil countries. The declining resource oil becomes more and more essential in the modern economy. He who controls the oil controls the world.

The US would viciously attack Iran even it were peopled with pigmies devoted to the religion of the Dalai Lama. There is a shocking similarity between George W. Bush and Mahmoud Ahmadinejad, The one has personal conversations with Jesus, the other has a line to Allah. But the name of the game is domination.

What interest do we have to get involved in this struggle? What interest do we have in being regarded - accurately - as the servants of the greatest enemy of the Muslim world in general and the Arab world in particular?

We want to live here in 100 years, in 500 years. Our most basic national interests demand that we extend our hands to the Arab nations that accept us, and act together with them for the rehabilitation of this region. That was true 59 years ago, and that will be true 59 years hence.

Little politicians like Olmert, Peretz and Halutz are unable to think in these terms. They can hardly see as far as the end of their noses. But where are the intellectuals, who should be more far-sighted?

Bashar al-Assad may not be one of the world's Great Thinkers. But his remark should certainly give us pause for thought.

Uri Avnery is an Israeli writer and peace activist with Gush Shalom. He is one of the writers featured in The Other Israel:
Voices of Dissent and Refusal. He is also a contributor to CounterPunch's hot new book The Politics of Anti-Semitism.

old-reb
09-17-2006, 09:55 PM
"Every Generation of Arabs Hates Israel More Than the Last"
By Uri Avnery; 28 August 2006 from ZNet

In his latest speech, which infuriated so many people, Syrian President Bashar al-Assad uttered a sentence that deserves attention: "Every new Arab generation hates Israel more than the previous one."

Of all that has been said about the Second Lebanon War, these are perhaps the most important words.

The main product of this war is hatred. The pictures of death and destruction in Lebanon entered every Arab home, indeed every Muslim home, from Indonesia to Morocco, from Yemen to the Muslim ghettos in London and Berlin. Not for an hour, not for a day, but for 33 successive days - day after day, hour after hour. The mangled bodies of babies, the women weeping over the ruins of their homes, Israeli children writing "greetings" on shells about to be fired at villages, Ehud Olmert blabbering about "the most moral army in the world" while the screen showed a heap of bodies.

Uri Avnery is an Israeli writer and peace activist with Gush Shalom. He is one of the writers featured in The Other Israel:
Voices of Dissent and Refusal. He is also a contributor to CounterPunch's hot new book The Politics of Anti-Semitism.

It makes me long for the good old days when the Muslims loved the Jews.

Encouraged and incited by growing Arab nationalism throughout the Middle East, the Arabs of that small remaining Palestinian territory west of the Jordan River launched never-ending murderous attacks upon the Jewish Palestinians in an effort to drive them out. Most terrifying were the Hebron massacres of 1929 and later during the 1936-39 "Arab Revolt."

On May 14, 1948 the "Palestinian" Jews finally declared their own State of Israel and became "Israelis." On the next day, seven neighboring Arab armies... Egypt, Jordan, Syria, Lebanon, Saudi Arabia, Iraq and Yemen... invaded Israel.

When the 19 month war ended, Israel survived despite a 1% loss of its entire population!

DanF
09-17-2006, 10:28 PM
"Every Generation of Arabs Hates Israel More Than the Last"
By Uri Avnery; 28 August 2006 from ZNet
... these are perhaps the most important words....


The Zionist movement has planted a foreign body in this country, which was then a part of the Arab-Muslim space.
==================================================

And this will continue to be the problem.

old-reb
09-17-2006, 11:42 PM
==================================================

And this will continue to be the problem.

Are you saying that the problem is that the Muslims are so racist against a non-muslim country that they want to commit genocide on them.

The Lebanon war was caused by the Hezbollah who spend their whole lives dedicated to the destruction of Israel.

Muslims start war and then cry when they lose. I am amazed that little Israel has survived so long with so many Muslim enemys and so many PC liberals wishing them gone.

JIhad will go on forever till the world is conquered by Islam and then everybody can live in peace and pray 5 times a day.

DanF
09-18-2006, 02:57 AM
JIhad will go on forever till the world is conquered by Islam and then everybody can live in peace and pray 5 times a day.
==============================================
Just think Reb,

No more women drivers on the road.
No decisions as to what to watch on t.v., only one channel.
No more beach tourists, whats a beach without bikinis.
No women at work to contend with.
No women talking in public.
No more INTERNET to take up our time.
Smaller libraries.
Only one book at home to keep up with.
No hog farms to put up with.
States will only need one representative at the Mosque.
We won't have to watch those political adds on t.v. anymore.
No more prisons (various body parts are removed immediately after the hearing, according to the crime.)
No more illegal immigrants.
Cheap gas.
You will not have to decide which church to go to.
No more protests clogging the streets.
No more ACLU. or other various organizations to contend with.
No need for most lawyers.
Children can finally work instead of having to attend those annoying schools.

Just to name a few future advantages. :rolleyes:

es347fan
09-18-2006, 06:23 AM
No booze, shapeless clothing, bland diet...

googs
09-18-2006, 10:01 AM
==============================================
Just think Reb,

No more women drivers on the road.
No decisions as to what to watch on t.v., only one channel.
No more beach tourists, whats a beach without bikinis.
No women at work to contend with.
No women talking in public.
No more INTERNET to take up our time.
Smaller libraries.
Only one book at home to keep up with.
No hog farms to put up with.
States will only need one representative at the Mosque.
We won't have to watch those political adds on t.v. anymore.
No more prisons (various body parts are removed immediately after the hearing, according to the crime.)
No more illegal immigrants.
Cheap gas.
You will not have to decide which church to go to.
No more protests clogging the streets.
No more ACLU. or other various organizations to contend with.
No need for most lawyers.
Children can finally work instead of having to attend those annoying schools.

Just to name a few future advantages. :rolleyes:

Saudia Arabia isn't the best model for Islam.
You're an idiot. Cartoons, sports, news, are allowed.
You don't have to go dressed in a bikini to go to the beach.
The exact opposite is true.
The exact opposite is true.
Samething as tv.
Why wouldd we have smaller libraries?
Great point.
Although it is inhumane, I wonder if a man with no hands would steal again?
True.
Another great point.
Why won't their be Christians? You have them all around the Middle East.
Again true.
I like this point.
You need lawyers for hearings.
Islam was the first to come up with the idea of universities. Education is more important than work.





Osama isn't Islam. I know you have trouble comprehending this. So we have to question why many Americans and Westeners have this outlook on Islam. In reality it is because Osama hijacked a religon foreign to most of the West. When you associate much of what you see in the media in regards to the War on Terror, the War in Iraq, Palestinian/Israeli Conflict and most recently Hezbollah and the Israeli War with Islam you are going to have a negative outlook on Islam. To dispel these ideas, I suggest you read the Qur'an. But don't just read. You have to understand the historical context of each verse. And reading one line out of the Quran doesn't count as reading it whole. Don't try reading selected verses and try to support your idea that Islam is a violent religon, abuses their women, etc. It's not going to work. Although I doubt you would do this, it would be nice if you do.

googs
09-18-2006, 10:05 AM
No booze, shapeless clothing, bland diet...

Nothing wrong with having no booze.
Shapeless clothing for men and women. Talk about Equality.
Bland diet? I guess pigs and alcohol make the American diet.

elp
09-18-2006, 10:12 AM
Nothing wrong with having no booze.


Are you insane??? :drinktoth :thumbs:

googs
09-18-2006, 10:14 AM
Are you insane??? :drinktoth :thumbs:

Lol, I knew I was going to get a reaction out of someone like that. :lolhit:

Brooks
09-18-2006, 12:52 PM
In his latest speech, which infuriated so many people, Syrian President Bashar al-Assad uttered a sentence that deserves attention: "Every new Arab generation hates Israel more than the previous one."
That's because every year the Arab leadership gets more corrupt, every year the Arabs are worse off than the previous, and every year the scapegoating must increase.

Freethinker
09-18-2006, 01:45 PM
That's because every year the Arab leadership gets more corrupt, every year the Arabs are worse off than the previous, and every year the scapegoating must increase.

Or, it could be because Israel keeps up the ethnocentrism, oppression and violence year after year.

old-reb
09-18-2006, 02:25 PM
Or, it could be because Israel keeps up the ethnocentrism, oppression and violence year after year.

There is no need to accept responsibility for your own failures when there are the Jews to blame.

50 years trying to exterminate the Jews has been a failure, instead of getting on with their lives they work tirelessy for genocide.

500lbguerilla
09-18-2006, 07:02 PM
That's because every year the Arab leadership gets more corrupt, every year the Arabs are worse off than the previous, and every year the scapegoating must increase.Ummm....hasn't this been happening with 'leadership' in almost every single country on the planet?

50 years trying to exterminate the Jews has been a failure, instead of getting on with their lives they work tirelessy for genocide. Yeah damn those arabs for stealing Jewish land, building Jewish ghettos, Surrounding teh jews with a giant concrete cage, demolishing Jewish apartment complexes, Treating Jews as if they were second class citizens, stealing the Jews water, Stealing the Jews olive groves, blaming all jews for the violence of a few radicals, executing Jews in the middle of teh street without a trail or evidence, refusing to prosecute crimes against Jews by arabs............

Its all the arabs fault. The arabs and jews lived side by side till those damn arabs started moving in andstarted terrorist bombings of the british and the jews....

BTW dan your list would look the same if we had a christian theocracy here as well. I'm tired of all the bullshit Muslim bashing. The problem is religious fucktards interferring wih other peoples lives.

The corruption of religion and power is not strictly limited to Islam and is in fact very apparent in most countries on the planet.

333
09-18-2006, 07:50 PM
like this one?

old-reb
09-18-2006, 08:08 PM
Ummm....hasn't this been happening with 'leadership' in almost every single country on the planet?
No

Yeah damn those arabs for stealing Jewish land, building Jewish ghettos, Surrounding teh jews with a giant concrete cage, demolishing Jewish apartment complexes, Treating Jews as if they were second class citizens, stealing the Jews water, Stealing the Jews olive groves, blaming all jews for the violence of a few radicals, executing Jews in the middle of teh street without a trail or evidence, refusing to prosecute crimes against Jews by arabs............

Tiring old trick of replacing Jew with arab.
The Jews are trying to arrest the terrorist while protecting the civilians. When any muslim is subject to be carring a load of TNT, it is wise to discriminate against them.

Its all the arabs fault. The arabs and jews lived side by side till those damn arabs started moving in andstarted terrorist bombings of the british and the jews....
tiring old trick of replacing jew with arab

BTW dan your list would look the same if we had a christian theocracy here as well. I'm tired of all the bullshit Muslim bashing. The problem is religious fucktards interferring wih other peoples lives.
Where in the world is there a christian theocracy today?

The corruption of religion and power is not strictly limited to Islam and is in fact very apparent in most countries on the planet.
But nobody else carries it to the extreme of killing people just because of their religion.

500lbguerilla
09-18-2006, 08:14 PM
really?

Q: why were Arabs driven out of Israel?

A: Because they weren't Jewish.

The Germans are trying to arrest the terrorist while protecting the civilians. When any Jew is subject to be carring a load of TNT, it is wise to discriminate against them.

old-reb
09-18-2006, 08:35 PM
really?

Q: why were Arabs driven out of Israel?

A: Because they weren't Jewish.

Most of the Arabs living within the boundaries of the newly declared "ISRAEL" were encouraged to leave by the invading Arab armies to facilitate the slaughter of the Jews and were promised to be given all Jewish property after the victorious Arab armies won the war. The truth is that 70% of the Arab Palestinians who left in 1948 – perhaps 300,000 to 400,000 of them – never saw an Israeli soldier! They did not flee because they feared Jewish thugs, but because of a rational and reasonable calculus: the Jews will be exterminated; we will get out of the way while that messy and dangerous business goes forward, and we will return afterwards to reclaim our homes, and to inherit those nice Jewish properties as well. They guessed wrong; and the Arab Palestinians are still tortured by the residual shame of their flight.

When the 19 month war ended, Israel survived despite a 1% loss of its entire population! Those Arabs who did not flee became today's Israeli-Arab citizens. Those who fled became the seeds of the first wave of "Palestinian Arab refugees."

Freethinker
09-18-2006, 11:30 PM
50 years trying to exterminate the Jews has been a failure ......

While the Jews' 50 year long campaign to drive the Palestinians out of Palestine so Jews can appropriate their land enjoys continuing success.

Sparky2
09-22-2006, 08:53 PM
And your solution is.....?

Freethinker
09-23-2006, 10:33 AM
And your solution is.....?

Easy. Go back in time and prevent the formation of the insane sun-god superstitions which spawned Islam, Judaism and Christianity, thus averting ALL the strife currently occuring.

All of the violence that has occured in the Middle East has one commonality; at the heart of it, it is done because of somone's belief in an invisible fucking deity conflicted with somone else's beliefs.

IOW, there can never and will never be a *solution* over in the "land of Jesus and Mohammed" as long as superstition holds complete sway. There is no reasoning with those inflicted with the insanity of religious belief.

Evakian
09-23-2006, 11:29 AM
Easy. Go back in time and prevent the formation of the insane sun-god superstitions which spawned Islam, Judaism and Christianity, thus averting ALL the strife currently occuring.
All the strife? Surely you can't believe that. If Abraham never existed, and so the faiths he spawned never came about, someone else would have another religion(s) that civilizations would collectively follow. There might be just as much conflict, or even more, if Christianity and Islam never came about. Not to mention that civilization as a whole, and even society, would arguably not have gotten as far as they have if lacked the positive, and a few negative, aspects of religion.

Brooks
09-23-2006, 12:46 PM
Q: why were Arabs driven out of Israel?
A: Because they weren't Jewish.Q: Why were Palestinians driven out of Jordan?
A: BECAUSE THEY HATE THEM.

Q: How come the world has forgotten this?
A: Because it's not Israel doing it.

Brooks
09-23-2006, 12:49 PM
Yeah damn those arabs for stealing Jewish land, building Jewish ghettos, Surrounding teh jews with a giant concrete cage, demolishing Jewish apartment complexes, Treating Jews as if they were second class citizens, stealing the Jews water, Stealing the Jews olive groves, blaming all jews for the violence of a few radicals, executing Jews in the middle of teh street without a trail or evidence, refusing to prosecute crimes against Jews by arabs............

Israel is tiny. The rest of the Middle East is huge.
Their Arab "brothers" can help the Palestinians in many positive ways besides attacking Israel. Ways that would actually help the Palestinians.
But they don't.

500lbguerilla
09-23-2006, 11:16 PM
hehe...redirection is a silly tactic.

You seem to think I care about what other Arab countries aren't doing for the palestinians. I don't.

What I care about is the brutal and illegal military occupation Israel IS doing.

Fuck other arab countries with their theocracies. Their princes and starving beggers. Their persecution of gays. But that is not what we are discussing. Make a thread I'll gladly denounce them.

What we are talking about is the zionist murders oppressing a peoples for their skin color and religion. You would think most Jews would be smarter then to fall for this zionist BS. But like a red headed step child they internalized Hitlers ways and saved them for a scapegoat.

500lbguerilla
09-23-2006, 11:17 PM
Ahmadinejad: Zionists different from Jews
http://www.ynetnews.com/articles/0,7340,L-3305123,00.html

BTW I don't want to hear anymore BS about Iran "just wanting to kill jews"...

Sparky2
09-24-2006, 06:03 AM
What I care about is the brutal and illegal military occupation Israel IS doing.


Your avatar is a handgun-wielding monkey, and you're worried about Israel commiting brutal and illegal acts?

Do you know how illegal it is to arm a monkey? And how brutal monkeys can be when you get them liquored-up, slip a pink t-shirt on them, and give them a Glock 9mm??

Gorillas in glass houses shouldn't throw stones.
:mad:

500lbguerilla
09-24-2006, 02:46 PM
but they're so cute when they drunkenly fire into the air
:(

WindWip
09-24-2006, 06:48 PM
The women can't wear bikinis!?!? My god, what horrid religion is this???

Evakian
09-24-2006, 08:06 PM
The women can't wear bikinis!?!? My god, what horrid religion is this???
Trust me, it's a blessing in disguise when we're talking about the Middle East.

For the record, I was kidding.

*dodges guerilla and his racist-labeling gun*

500lbguerilla
09-26-2006, 03:27 AM
*Guerilla laughed but give evak a swift kick in the ass for the snide remark.

paulc
09-27-2006, 03:29 PM
Why would any Palestinian want to live in the State of Israel,the country which wiped their homeland off the map with a stroke of a pen.Until the Israelis accomadate the Palestinians properly there will always be hatred and violence in the region,as ling as the US blindly supports Israel,radical Muslims will see the US as its enemy globally and in America.