Lately I have been trying to take a deeper look at what makes us tick.

Are we all really different or is our nature part of something that we all share.
If so where is the source of it?

What really makes us who we are?

I would like to see every aspect of human nature explained. How do we know what our favorite color is, how is it we decide what kind of music we like, how do we decide if we are a sci fi freak or a drama queen.

Are these things something made up of moments in our lives that we like above all the other moments?
Like on a day that you look back on and have good thoughts of, you happened to be wearing a blue shirt and your mother told you that you looked good in the shirt. Would that have anything to do with the fact that blue is your favorite color?
If so do these things build up?
For example blue is your favorite color so you might associate the color blue with other things you like and the simple fact that blue is with these things only helps you to like them more.

Could a collection of things like this be a reason as to why we live a life style?

Are we all really different or is our nature part of something that we all share.
If so where is the source of it?You can take both perspectives. You can look at people and focus on the differences between individuals and you can pan out for the overall picture of what is common across individuals.

What really makes us who we are?Stuff, like our genetic information and the very food we eat and air we breathe i.e. nature, and processes, our outward experiences and inward thoughts i.e. nurture. Our nature and nurture have universal aspects but we are not all clones so there are differences too.

I would like to see every aspect of human nature explained. How do we know what our favorite color is, how is it we decide what kind of music we like, how do we decide if we are a sci fi freak or a drama queen.Here you are taking the differences perspective. Differences are thrown into relief by modern Western societies with their emphasis on individuality (e.g. consumer rights, 60's style free-love, one-person-one-vote etc tec) as opposed to traditional societies. So we are kind of expected to define ourselves by our tastes in the modern free world.

Are these things something made up of moments in our lives that we like above all the other moments?I'd imagine so as well as defined against those we didn't like.


Like on a day that you look back on and have good thoughts of, you happened to be wearing a blue shirt and your mother told you that you looked good in the shirt. Would that have anything to do with the fact that blue is your favorite color?Sounds reasonable.

If so do these things build up?
For example blue is your favorite color so you might associate the color blue with other things you like and the simple fact that blue is with these things only helps you to like them more.I think that's an astute observation. Often human processes involve a feedback effect. It's no bad thing IMO.

Could a collection of things like this be a reason as to why we live a life style?Not sure what you mean exactly.

Not sure what you mean exactly.

A collection of moments, kind of gathered up like a program in a computer thats made to do a task.

What if all of our moments were associated and this made us who we are?
Not associated to closely but close enough for us to compare every aspect of our individual lives with one thing.

I mean we are all different, theres no argueing that. But like you said we take examples from what is in life today.

Say for some reason someone gets stuck on the "I love Lucy show"
What if we could go back through that persons life and distinguish every attribute that this person has that makes them who they are came from "I love Lucy"
Every moment that made them who they are was in part to the fact that they liked the show I love Lucy.

A collection of moments, kind of gathered up like a program in a computer thats made to do a task.

What if all of our moments were associated and this made us who we are?
Not associated to closely but close enough for us to compare every aspect of our individual lives with one thing.

I mean we are all different, theres no argueing that. But like you said we take examples from what is in life today.

Say for some reason someone gets stuck on the "I love Lucy show"
What if we could go back through that persons life and distinguish every attribute that this person has that makes them who they are came from "I love Lucy"
Every moment that made them who they are was in part to the fact that they liked the show I love Lucy.I'm not sure in practice whether we could scientifically correlate a one-to-many relationship between a liking for "I Love Lucy" and clearly disinguishable incidents; and I'm not sure in theory it would work quite so cleanly and directly. But I like your general idea that we are inseparable from our active experiences and that some of our tastes can be traced back to certain incidents.

I'm not sure in practice whether we could scientifically correlate a one-to-many relationship between a liking for "I Love Lucy" and clearly disinguishable incidents; and I'm not sure in theory it would work quite so cleanly and directly. But I like your general idea that we are inseparable from our active experiences and that some of our tastes can be traced back to certain incidents.


Thank you Blob :thumbs:

I was thinking that if we can figure out an individuals nature we could more closely examine emotions. If we can put it into a logical source of some kind
and simplify the source to a format that is easily understandable I think we could find a lot more triggers of human emotions then there is known to date.

(Man, I tend to ramble on sometimes)


This would do one of two things I think.
One would be to destroy the world and the other would be to make it a btter place.
Sadly I think it would be the first one.

Lately I have been trying to take a deeper look at what makes us tick.

Are we all really different or is our nature part of something that we all share.
If so where is the source of it??
I think we are all connected in our humanity yet I also believe we are all uniquely different. Each soul has individuality and their own concious reality. I also believe that we come from the same source.
What really makes us who we are?
The collection of our experiences and the genetic pool we come from which would colour our perception of those experiences.

I would like to see every aspect of human nature explained.
Do you think that is really possible? I think a little mystery is not a bad thing.

Could a collection of things like this be a reason as to why we live a life style?
I think so. I think every instance of our day and the way we perceive it, shapes who we are and builds our reality. Which in turn shapes our future.

This is an interesting topic. The theory you braught up cocerning a person's collective experiences and important moments in memory effecting their continued development and decision making in life works for most. It's a solid idea. Now, to list or explain human natures the immediately obvious difficulty is in deciding, after observing some general patterns, whether they are strong and prevalent enough to be applied to all humans. Naturally the more specific pattern you attempt to describe the less likely it will fit nicely across the entire race. It is a thorny task and one I think shouldn't be taken too seriously. I personally prefer to observe patterns across more specific groups of humans, as this way I may be more specific in my description. I know, it sounds alarmingly like I'm talking about "stereotypes". Buy ultimately if a behavioral theory is used for prediction about a target group, and the prediction is not extremely accurate, but you use it anyway, I suppose "stereotyping" is a possible term to call the act.

This is an interesting topic. The theory you braught up cocerning a person's collective experiences and important moments in memory effecting their continued development and decision making in life works for most. It's a solid idea. Now, to list or explain human natures the immediately obvious difficulty is in deciding, after observing some general patterns, whether they are strong and prevalent enough to be applied to all humans. Naturally the more specific pattern you attempt to describe the less likely it will fit nicely across the entire race. It is a thorny task and one I think shouldn't be taken too seriously. I personally prefer to observe patterns across more specific groups of humans, as this way I may be more specific in my description. I know, it sounds alarmingly like I'm talking about "stereotypes". Buy ultimately if a behavioral theory is used for prediction about a target group, and the prediction is not extremely accurate, but you use it anyway, I suppose "stereotyping" is a possible term to call the act.


I agree. We could use your method to help people who are emotionally challenged if it were true.
Long before they even get to the second or third symptom it could be noticed that the person is going down the wrong track and we can take steps to prevent any trauma that may lead to an emotional collapse.

Or even help people who have suffered through a dramatic circumstance.
Like war victims or child abuse and so on. If we can see the triggers and see that there are commonalities in them then we can use them for a lot of wonderful things that will benefit the entire world.

Of course there is also the overwhelming chance that some asshole somewhere will want to use it for their own good and only cause more problems.

Are we all really different or is our nature part of something that we all share.
I know this is going to sound terribly cliche, but while we all share in similar experiences, ultimately our biology and enviroment shape who we are as inidividuals. The old "nature and nuture" theory, and I'll probably kick myself for not reading the rest of the thread.

Lately I have been trying to take a deeper look at what makes us tick.
If so where is the source of it?
What makes us tick? We are biologically inclined to stay alive and procreate. Why? The unaltering need of energy to move!

Now, if the idea of "what makes us tick" is in reference to our nature and it's relation to life's purpose, we make our own purposes as life is essentially a pointless exercise until we give it meaning.

What really makes us who we are?

I would like to see every aspect of human nature explained. How do we know what our favorite color is, how is it we decide what kind of music we like, how do we decide if we are a sci fi freak or a drama queen.
While your wish to get everything about us explained is likely not to come in this, or your grandchild's lifetime. However, to address the question "how is it we decide what kind of music we like?", the engimatic question of our likes and dislikes is in essence answered by the idea that it is not our choice.

I've come to realize that who I am today is not a conscious decision, and that I have not chosen what kind of food and music I enjoy, or even more serious topics like my atheism and libertarianism. I didn't choose these paths, they just made sense to me, and drew me in with their sound, taste, texture, logic, reasoning, or feel, or perhaps another distinct quality interpreted by my mind. That's not to say we cannot change, as an intense debate, or change in climate, or change in company may alter my tastes and ideals.

But now I must run, hopefully to respond sometime this weekend.

I know this is going to sound terribly cliche, but while we all share in similar experiences, ultimately our biology and enviroment shape who we are as inidividuals. The old "nature and nuture" theory, and I'll probably kick myself for not reading the rest of the thread.

What makes us tick? We are biologically inclined to stay alive and procreate. Why? The unaltering need of energy to move!

Now, if the idea of "what makes us tick" is in reference to our nature and it's relation to life's purpose, we make our own purposes as life is essentially a pointless exercise until we give it meaning.


While your wish to get everything about us explained is likely not to come in this, or your grandchild's lifetime. However, to address the question "how is it we decide what kind of music we like?", the engimatic question of our likes and dislikes is in essence answered by the idea that it is not our choice.

I've come to realize that who I am today is not a conscious decision, and that I have not chosen what kind of food and music I enjoy, or even more serious topics like my atheism and libertarianism. I didn't choose these paths, they just made sense to me, and drew me in with their sound, taste, texture, logic, reasoning, or feel, or perhaps another distinct quality interpreted by my mind. That's not to say we cannot change, as an intense debate, or change in climate, or change in company may alter my tastes and ideals.

But now I must run, hopefully to respond sometime this weekend.


I agree with just about everything you said, but I think some of our likes and dislikes are closer to the surface. We can actualy reflect on some of the things that make us who we are. Which in turn gives us the option to choose door number one or door number two.
We dont always understand that we like something right away. Maybe if the chain of events that lead to the aultimate purpose in our lives could be unfolded, we could learn so much more about ourselves.
I would guess to do that with just one person would take at least a life time. If they were of course explaining things to someone else and that was the extent of the research.

but I think some of our likes and dislikes are closer to the surface.
We disagree on multiple levels now that you've said this.
We can actualy reflect on some of the things that make us who we are.
We do not make conscious decisions about what we like, dislike, believe, love, or hate.
Which in turn gives us the option to choose door number one or door number two.
Then perhaps you can explain to me why I can't be a Christian.

We disagree on multiple levels now that you've said this.

We do not make conscious decisions about what we like, dislike, believe, love, or hate.

Then perhaps you can explain to me why I can't be a Christian.

I never said you couldn't be a Christian, you did. If that is what you think then that is how it will be.

I'll try and give an example from my own life. I am a Sci Fi freak. Use to be a time when a movie was a movie, it really didnt matter to me. Then I saw Star Wars for the first time on the big screen, right when it first came out. I remember the line to get in was wrapped around the theater. The movie itself was larger then life. I had never before seen anything like it and I knew that I wanted to have that experience again.
So I keep looking for another Sci Fi movie to match it, knowing that the chances of that happening are next to nothing.
If any other kind of movie made me feel the same way I would be a fan of another type of film. As a matter of fact I never really even considered horror movies to be anything special until I seen Alien. Which is also a Sci Fi.
Now I like horror films.

I may not have had a choice to consider liking them when I first seen the two movies. But I know exactly why I like Sci Fi and Horror movies and I can reflect on it and even change it if I try to.
Because lets face it, the last Hell Raiser that came out was just horrible and Freddy vs Jason.. Give me a break.

I did watch The Good, the Bad and the Ugly for the first time all the way through the other day and I have gotten a fondness for Westerns from it.
This may or may not direct my attention from Sci Fi.
Not sure because Stargate is on tonight and I kinda like that show.

I hope that bit of rambling made my point?

I never said you couldn't be a Christian, you did. If that is what you think then that is how it will be.
You're missing the crux of the debate.
But I know exactly why I like Sci Fi and Horror movies and I can reflect on it and even change it if I try to.
I can come up with reasons for why I like SF films, but I can't make the decision to not like them.

I attend church weekly with my family, I've read the Bible several times, but I can't make the conscious decision to be Christian. That would be going against my logic and reason, as well as "lying to myself." I can't truly believe, even though I've tried. I've reflected on why I believe what I believe many times over, and to have such a paradigm shift in thinking like that would probably only result from a head injury.

"I do not feel obliged to believe that the same God who has endowed us with sense, reason, and intellect has intended us to forgo their use."
-Galileo Galilei

You're missing the crux of the debate.

I should have worded that different. The idea that you believe you cant be a Christian and the reasons you have for that idea is something you yourself believe. You are the one drawing the conclusions through your own reason and logic.



I can come up with reasons for why I like SF films, but I can't make the decision to not like them.

I attend church weekly with my family, I've read the Bible several times, but I can't make the conscious decision to be Christian. That would be going against my logic and reason, as well as "lying to myself." I can't truly believe, even though I've tried. I've reflected on why I believe what I believe many times over, and to have such a paradigm shift in thinking like that would probably only result from a head injury.

"I do not feel obliged to believe that the same God who has endowed us with sense, reason, and intellect has intended us to forgo their use."
-Galileo Galilei

If you know why you like something then you can reflect on why you like it.
It is something you understand. If you can understand it then you can see the mechanics of it.

I am not saying this works with everything. Only those things that you know the reason to.
As in my other post. I said I was starting to like Westerns because of a passing interest in one film I watched. I already have a definitive interest in SF films. Its up to me to see if I will like Westerns any more then I do at the moment. I could pursue my interest in Westerns by renting videos that look intersting to me and see if my interest grows with each film watched.
Or I could just ignore it.
Right there is the choice, it may not go past that. I may not have the option to completely decide if I like Westerns or not but I am making the choice to ignore it or not ignore it when I gain interest in it for the first time.

Right there is the choice, it may not go past that. I may not have the option to completely decide if I like Westerns or not but I am making the choice to ignore it or not ignore it when I gain interest in it for the first time.
This still hasn't addressed the fact that I have attempted to be a Christian for years, and have subjected myself to the enviroment, yet remain a devout atheist.

What do you think about that?

This still hasn't addressed the fact that I have attempted to be a Christian for years, and have subjected myself to the enviroment, yet remain a devout atheist.

What do you think about that?


Maybe youre trying to hard?

You subject yourself to it and for years none the less. Cant really like something if you are trying to force it on yourself.

You subject yourself to it and for years none the less. Cant really like something if you are trying to force it on yourself.
It's not about "liking" it, for I hate it. It is about "believing", and one cannot choose what he or she believes, as shown here, which is the overarching point I am foisting on you in this debate.

It's not about "liking" it, for I hate it. It is about "believing", and one cannot choose what he or she believes, as shown here, which is the overarching point I am foisting on you in this debate.Ever notice my signature?

It's not about "liking" it, for I hate it. It is about "believing", and one cannot choose what he or she believes, as shown here, which is the overarching point I am foisting on you in this debate.

Huh? It's a religion you kind of have to like it in order to believe in it.

You draw conslusions about religion from what you like or dont like. Once you choose to follow a religion it is your life. It is what you stand for.
If you dont like it to begin with and simply dont know why you dont like it then youre not really going to want to be in that religion.

If you want me to prove to you that God exist in this conversation I cant.
The fact of the matter is, you hate Christianity because of all your other likes and dislikes. That and you quite possibly feel like it is being forced on you.

Belief in faith and faith through belief are two different things. If all you will ever want is faith through belief then you will never be a Christian and you will never understand why they exist.

You will only have an idea.

Huh? It's a religion you kind of have to like it in order to believe in it.
When is that a rule? You have to like Christianity, with all it's condemnation, to believe it?
The fact of the matter is, you hate Christianity because of all your other likes and dislikes. That and you quite possibly feel like it is being forced on you.
I don't hate Christianity period, even if I did, it would hardly be due to my "likes and dislikes." And I don't hate Christianity because it is being forced on me, I just reject it's teachings.
Belief in faith and faith through belief are two different things. If all you will ever want is faith through belief then you will never be a Christian and you will never understand why they exist.

You will only have an idea.
I realize that "belief in faith" is a fool's errand, that's why I don't want it. However, it would be a nice thing to have. Faith is the last bastion of the uninquisitive. Faith is not logical, faith is not reasonable, faith is rooted in a desire for ignorance. Empirical evidence is the power and treasure of the intellectual, that urges him to disobey the forces of superstition.

And while discussion is a good thing, I must say that perhaps there is a desire in me to not be Christian, even so, the current state of mind and reasoning makes me, nay, forces me to disbelieve. Why?

Because if you make statements such as "If you want me to prove to you that God exist in this conversation I cant." (and believe me, if it was possible through discussion I would believe by now) Then I can never truly be a Christian, or even any theist for that matter.

When is that a rule? You have to like Christianity, with all it's condemnation, to believe it?

Its not really a rule, its more or less common sense. If you are going to become something, you should like it. If you claim to be something that you dont like, then chances are youre fooling yourself or someone else.



I don't hate Christianity period, even if I did, it would hardly be due to my "likes and dislikes." And I don't hate Christianity because it is being forced on me, I just reject it's teachings.


My bad.


I realize that "belief in faith" is a fool's errand, that's why I don't want it. However, it would be a nice thing to have. Faith is the last bastion of the uninquisitive. Faith is not logical, faith is not reasonable, faith is rooted in a desire for ignorance. Empirical evidence is the power and treasure of the intellectual, that urges him to disobey the forces of superstition.

In other words, "You dont want to be a fool"


And while discussion is a good thing, I must say that perhaps there is a desire in me to not be Christian, even so, the current state of mind and reasoning makes me, nay, forces me to disbelieve. Why?

Because if you make statements such as "If you want me to prove to you that God exist in this conversation I cant." (and believe me, if it was possible through discussion I would believe by now) Then I can never truly be a Christian, or even any theist for that matter.

So far the only thing I see here that is forcing you to not be a Christian is your desire not to look like a fool and a few disagreements you have with the religion.

Simply breathing is faith in the air around you. Cant see that but it does have an effect on you. Keeps you alive. The act of it is all the proof you need. Same could be said about Christianity. Only the intellectual has but a vague idea.

Its not really a rule, its more or less common sense. If you are going to become something, you should like it. If you claim to be something that you dont like, then chances are youre fooling yourself or someone else.
Yes, because everyone enjoys their jobs and every social aspect of their religion. Surely there is something about yourself you don't like. Perhaps you shouldn't have become it?
In other words, "You dont want to be a fool"
Close, but no cigar (to beat a dead horse), I'm no fool already. ;)
So far the only thing I see here that is forcing you to not be a Christian is your desire not to look like a fool and a few disagreements you have with the religion.
The only thing forcing me to not be a Christian is disbelief in the deity of Jesus Christ. Oh, and maybe the Holy Trinity, and the afterlife are a bit fishy too. :D
Simply breathing is faith in the air around you.
I know air is there, I don't have to have faith that it's there. Faith is belief not based on proof, I can prove the air is there simply by inhaling.

The real conundrum of theism is the idea that God must exist even though we have no way to prove it, not even the slightest idea of a way to prove it. A typical question I get is: "How did the universe get here?" A knee-jerk response would be "Divine creation sparked the physical world." But, this argument, while seemingly easy and sensible, fails in that you have to think that the universe was created. What if it never was?

Our perception of the world only assists us in the survival of life on Earth, our brains lack the capacity to understand the mysteries of infinite space, gravity, black holes, or even time. And because our lives have a beginning and an end, what we consider physical also must have a similar pattern. The idea that the universe always was seems silly at first, but then again, so does the idea that "God always existed" when weighted against it. And you could claim he is from another plane of existence, which would leave you answering how the dimensions interact with each other, or I could just argue the existence of the physical altogether.

Oh dear, my mind is rambling on like a Led Zeppelin concert. Remind me to get onto the "Cogito, ergo, sum" speech another time. Also, how goes your book? Willing to post any progress?

Not willing to yet, on my 3rd chapter and my 10th draft.