A mystic is a person that accesses a higher source (God?), also called "the Intuitive Mind" by some, through meditative prayer and love, for information about stuff. Does this information actually come from God? Nobdy really knows. So is there any reason why someone of the atheist persursion can't be a mystic?

sonny

Yes an atheist can be mystic. One does not need to believe in god to believe in, say, some duality of body and spirit. This spirit, or personal essence, could be permanent and endure death, could travel free of the body (e.g. astral projection), could communicate directly with other spirits without physical means (telepathy) and so on. Many Buddhists are technically atheist for example.

Although I have always been a self-professed atheist as a young man I was briefly into pseudo-science and believed some pretty wacky stuff such as aliens built the pyramids, drug experiences involved literally stepping into another dimension of reality and so on.

However in practice those who label themselves atheist tend to be generally sceptical about dualism and are often materialistic in their philosophy, as I am.

is atheism definition by ONLY that you don't believe in god? if so, then yes.

i don't believe in god, but i do believe in spirits and an afterlife.

Guys that was totally too cool! Based on my opinion, fair enough? :D

This "New Forum" is dedicated to Mysticism and Metaphysics. And it is a gift from our loved and respected Administrator to those who are interested in these subjects.

As a mystic one attemps to access information from something that is beyond themselves. Metaphysics is physics that which is beyond physics. What if a person chose the mystic experience to access information and understand it, in a way, that is beyond this worlds physics?

All of this worlds religions are based on someone who was a mystic (went to a higher source for information). All of science in todays world is the result of someone who had an "intuitive flash" of insight or understanding, out of nowhere, that changed things.

Convention says that mystics are seeking God! Tradition, all of them, also says, "Don't add to what has been given." Oh ya and this, "And how, we of tradition, interpret what has been given." :D Tradition begins with a mystic, but they don't now want them around. And tradition don't. Guys the world is flat! Please do not explore a reality where it may not be. Ok?

I love you Ivan and I love you Blob and everyone else that wants to step into this "topic" or "forum (and wants to post topics") and kick things around. The world is flat! And without you guys it would still be! So everybody lets wake this forum up. Lets have a look at where new information comes from. And lets have a look at the mystic experience and the world beyond this worlds physics. Lets kick things around, tradition as religion and as science are in a different "forum" :D at least so far. Lets play just for fun!

sonny

who says mysticism goes beyond physics?

There most likely is a completely reasonable and scientifically definable explaination for everything that occurs. The only issue is that scientifically we are not advanced enough to detect said processes, nor open minded enough to pursue such technologies. Science is only restricted by the observations it can make.

I think an atheist can definitely be a mystic. Just attempting to tap into energy beyond oneself would be deemed mystical.

I'm not sure that I agree with your definition of the term "mystic". Perhaps a preferable one would be "someone who believes in the existence of realities beyond human comprehension"

Under the latter definition, an atheist, or the Pope, could be a mystic.

I would also class the many scientists who are pushing the boundaries of human knowledge, particularly in the areas of string theory, origin of the universe, multiple dimensions, space/time and energy, as mystics.

If I can't see it, touch it, feel it, etc, then it doesn't exist. We've all heard people say something like that. In the old days most everyone believed it, after all, the original four elements were earth, fire, water and air.
The early mystics thought differently. They began to dream (sometimes perhaps literally) of things outside the normal range of understanding. These thoughts led to more and more different thoughts, then observations and the early sciences and thus the beginning of civilization and so to where we are today.

How did mankind develop from the stone-age creatures in such a short time? Because some had the temerity to think outside the realities of human comprehension. Without mystics we would still be grubbing in the dirt to survive.

Great post, Oldtimer.

I'm not sure that I agree with your definition of the term "mystic". Perhaps a preferable one would be "someone who believes in the existence of realities beyond human comprehension"By that definition I'm a mystic.

I think there is a reasonable argument that in fact mystics are guilty of not acknowledging the existence of realities beyond human comprehension - afterall they have vocabulary for discussing and meditation for exploring these other realities. At the risk of my scepticism sliding into cynicism I might say that it's rather presumptious. In my experience mystics can detail quite an elaborate explanation of "other worldliness" - and yet those who reject mysticism are sometimes dismissed as know it alls who think there is an explanation for everything. There is an irony at play somewhere in that.

Can a mystic's mystic step into a mystic reality and play? :D


Oldtimer, Of which i am also, grab your dictionary and define your terms: This is what mine says, "Mysticism---1. The doctrines or beliefs of mystic's; specif., the doctrine that it is possible to achieve communion with God through contemplation and love without the medium of "human reason" (the quotes are my own). 2. Any doctrine that assurts the possibility of attaining knowledge of spiritual truths through intuition acquired by fixed meditation. 3. vague, obscure, or confused thinking or belief.

oldtimer..."I'm not sure that I agree with your definition of the term "mystic". Perhaps a preferable one would be "someone who believes in the existence of realities beyond human comprehension"

The key here my friend Sir Oldtimer, as one old timer to another, is the concept of "believes". :D That one we can play with! If you wish? :D

Hugs and love! sonny

Can one achieve spiritual truths and not "believe" in God? Oh yah, they can. :D

And they (mystics) can also access alot of a bunch of other stuff through the "Intuitive" mind. A mystic can go out there and have a look at a bunch of things. He/She can you know! And if God is real and one is an athiest, I suppect that He will say, "Hello!" :D And if He doesn't, then I think things will still be interesting.

So Oldtimer and anyone interested, lets have a look at the "Mystic" experience and the concept of "belief". The part I really like is the definition 3. vague, obscure, or confused thinking or belief.

The third definition is a gift to everybody, anybody can say anything. But the truth is, "anybody can access the mystic experience" whether they believe in God or not. Access is open to everybody realitive to alot of things, whether they believe in God or not. And if God is real, He will say hello!

sonny

Sure, you can find both your definitions and mine, or at least similarly worded ones, in most good dictionaries. Like a lot of English words it has diverse meanings.

Take the word belief, what does it mean? Generally it means "Something believed or accepted as true" or words to that effect.
Interestingly, such a definition means that most all previously held beliefs have been proven wrong. Simple example, I no longer have a belief that the world is flat. Many fervently held beliefs in the sciences have had to be discarded.
To have a belief merely means that you accept it as truth, not that it is true.

[QUOTE=sonny5700]
Convention says that mystics are seeking God.
=========================================
What if we are Gods seeking our memory?

I love you Oldtimer! And DanFWhat if we are Gods seeking our memory? you are running the "Kicker!" :)

Activity is the life of a messageboard :) And this a new forum and we are "ALL" creating activity. So lets everybody play!

DanF you are dangerous! :) Fair enough?

So Oldtimmer you have stepped into things with a bold the "belief' word. Totally too cool!

So again :) can one access the "what ever it is?" even if they don't believe?

Jesus mentioned somewhere that "faith" can be based on experience. I have been a mystic for over fifty years. It has lead me down an interesting path. And it has had its ups and downs. God? is interesting that way.

This is a new forum. It has alot of empty space :) totally to cool! So lets create some activity. The truth is that eveybody is a mystic. They go somewhere for answers and they get them. How can this be?

sonny

Just something that I posted on another messageboard today:

"Ray that was interesting. Not just to me but to our (All of us) viewers. Most folks hang out/check on/read a messageboard and never say anything. They just do. The folks on the messageboard, that are posting, bring them in and keep them entertained. Sometimes with knowledge and sometimes just with enterainment :D

To us, all that we say is important, to the viewers what we say may just be entertaining. So "Oh Be Wan Ray Kan O Be" how do we mix entertainment and wisdom? :D ?

Agy started a messageboard and invited all of us to play. We all have wisdom to share with others. We are all riding "The White Horse of of the Apocalypse" and the internet is our Bow. :D

So Ray how can we all be enteraining (conflict sells newspapers and we all are unhappy about that part) and share wisdom at the sametime? We are playing in this world. We just are.

The important part is that we are a team "us" and that agy's messageboard is successful. Everybody has permission to be "Rogue". Fair enough? And the rest of us don't mind.

Everybody here is bright and wants to help mankind/Humankind and Mother Nature (The Goddess) and Father God.

Lets play and lets kick things around and lets be entertaining and sneak some wisdom in :D . Everybody here has wisdom. How do we work as a team to create delivery?

sonny5700 :D "

I would think an Athiest could be a very good Mystic!!

They have OPEN MINDS and arent held down to 1 way of thinking so they are able to see into things others cant.. (Same thing goes for Agnostics also i believe..)

i may believe in god if my prayer is answered. see thread on this.

If God bribed me I think I might start believing; Y'know, just a couple suitcases full of cash delivered by an angel or something. That would get me to open my mind :thumbs:

[QUOTE=sonny5700]
Convention says that mystics are seeking God.
=========================================
What if we are Gods seeking our memory?

Dan, What if we are? :)

Sonny

I would think an Athiest could be a very good Mystic!!

They have OPEN MINDS and arent held down to 1 way of thinking so they are able to see into things others cant.. (Same thing goes for Agnostics also i believe..)

Dude, I have been a serious mystic for most of 52 years, :) Based on my experience I am inclined to agree with you! Yepper :)

sonny

i may believe in god if my prayer is answered. see thread on this.
__________________
ideas are bullet proof.
people should not be afraid of their government, government should be afraid of its people.
(and you damn well better be afraid of me)

Boy Ivan :) is it ok if I am not afraid of you? I am not govenment, I am just a person hanging out on a messageboard. If you are serious about me and others being afraid of you, then I suspect the you should be taken seriously. Fair enough?

Oh and this, we are the people and if you are an American :) it is "OUR" governmant :) Yepper!

sonny

If God bribed me I think I might start believing; Y'know, just a couple suitcases full of cash delivered by an angel or something. That would get me to open my mind :thumbs:

WindWip that was totally to cool! If God did that for you, then you would actually end up with all the money in the world. That is ok, but what about the rest of us little folk? Do we have permission to live? We don't have your connections. Will you be our God? Will you look after us?

sonny

Excellent :)

Dude :) "Excellent" does not creat dialog :) Sheesh!

sonny :)

Ah WindWip, now we know your price. Let's bargain. Suppose God gave you only one suitcase full of cash, delivered by something. Would you believe then?

I sure would. With all the conviction of a cheap prostitute with rent due.

A mystic is one who explores and attempts to come to an understanding of esoteric realities. The amount of realities that exist are really only bounded by our imagination, as our brains can manufacture any experience they want to using psychedelic compounds. It may or may not involve higher powers.

A mystic is one who explores and attempts to come to an understanding of esoteric realities. The amount of realities that exist are really only bounded by our imagination, as our brains can manufacture any experience they want to using psychedelic compounds. It may or may not involve higher powers.
__________________
"Show me a great man and I will show you a monkey of his own ideals." -- Nietzche

Merely repeating popular wisdom that your life managed to bear out some of the truth of isn't insight. It's laziness dressed up as wisdom.

Merely repeating popular wisdom that your life managed to bear out some of the truth of isn't insight. It's laziness dressed up as wisdom.

Ah yes Napster :) , But, Is it lazyness or is it "defensiveness" :) to allow one to maintain their ignorance?

sonny

Excellent :)

Son, I think that that puts me on your list :)

Based on what we have explored so far :)

Totally to cool! Yepper! Dude you have separated youself from the crowd! :) We now have dialog :)

sonny

Ah yes Napster , But, Is it lazyness or is it "defensiveness" to allow one to maintain their ignorance?

Their minds. Laziness and defensiveness come from the mind. The mind will conjure up all kinds of reasons to justify it's own existence. The mind is a useful tool. but should not be given the keys to one's consciousness. Sadly, in 99.99% of the people, 99.99% of the time, their minds rule over their bodies and spirits. It is out of this state that ignorance perpetuates.

I took your question out of context, and answered it on the pure meanings of the words you used, because I'm not too sure what you were getting at. If it wasn't what you were looking for, would you do me a favor and be more specific? Ignorance of what?

Their minds. Laziness and defensiveness come from the mind. The mind will conjure up all kinds of reasons to justify it's own existence. The mind is a useful tool. but should not be given the keys to one's consciousness. Sadly, in 99.99% of the people, 99.99% of the time, their minds rule over their bodies and spirits. It is out of this state that ignorance perpetuates

Yepper! :)

I took your question out of context, and answered it on the pure meanings of the words you used, because I'm not too sure what you were getting at. If it wasn't what you were looking for, would you do me a favor and be more specific? Ignorance of what?

The problem is Napster, is that you are actually wise. So anyway will you (and all others) keep me honest, the instant that you think that I am goning flaky. I not only don't mind, and it would be appreciated. Fair enough?

Love,

sonny

Glad to be of assistance.

So napster, can an atheist be a "mystic"?

"Show me a great man and I will show you a monkey of his own ideals." -- Nietzche

Merely repeating popular wisdom that your life managed to bear out some of the truth of isn't insight. It's laziness dressed up as wisdom.

Yepper :)

The question now is, "How do you know what is real and what isn't? And how does one know what works and what doesn't?"

Sonny

So napster, can an atheist be a "mystic"?

I believe I have already answered that question. See my first post in the thread.

The question now is, "How do you know what is real and what isn't? And how does one know what works and what doesn't?"

The ultimate truth is that nothing is real, everything is false. Life is ultimately meaningless. One has to create meaning in life, keeping in mind that even the created meaning is purely to satisfy the mind. If one does not keep this dichotomy in mind, then the mind will eventually sabotage your efforts. As for what works and what doesn't, the only answer is trial and error. No handed down method or meaning can ever be satisfactory for a person. In the beginning, that is all we have to work with. Intelligence lies in how quickly one comes to understand that no method is sufficient, and how well one uses trial and error to come to understand.

Handed down information is getting much better though, and it helps to know what to listen to and what not to. It is better not to listen than to listen.

I believe I have already answered that question. See my first post in the thread.

The ultimate truth is that nothing is real, everything is false. Life is ultimately meaningless. One has to create meaning in life, keeping in mind that even the created meaning is purely to satisfy the mind. If one does not keep this dichotomy in mind, then the mind will eventually sabotage your efforts. As for what works and what doesn't, the only answer is trial and error. No handed down method or meaning can ever be satisfactory for a person. In the beginning, that is all we have to work with. Intelligence lies in how quickly one comes to understand that no method is sufficient, and how well one uses trial and error to come to understand.

Handed down information is getting much better though, and it helps to know what to listen to and what not to. It is better not to listen than to listen.

Boy! Napster :)

I don't actually disagree with what you posted above.

So I will just ask you this: Is it possible that there is something that is beyond the "dribble" that we are being fed?

If so, then how can we explore it?

sonny

I already answered both of your questions.

No to the first question. There is nothing, period. You can choose to believe there is something. Then you have created it. Now you have to figure out how to explore it. That's a method. Trial and error will be your guide.

I already answered both of your questions.

No to the first question. There is nothing, period. You can choose to believe there is something. Then you have created it. Now you have to figure out how to explore it. That's a method. Trial and error will be your guide.

You can choose to believe there is something. Then you have created it.

Napster, Then what kind of reality are you creating that you are dealing with? What have you created in you own life? Have you "created" me and this messageboard? Are you unhappy with your creation?

Is it all about you? Are you stuck/intwined in other peoples creation? :) We have 7 billion people creating the world that we all live in. They are all creating the reality that we are all living in. Yepper!

The point is not that we are creating reality. The point is One) Are we somebody elses "spear carrier?" because of their desires. And Two) Did we create "them" so that we could carry "their" spear?

sonny

Napster, Then what kind of reality are you creating that you are dealing with?

None. I am quite happy with the world the way it is. All I do is describe it. People tend to forget that sometimes. I live in everybody else's creations. I simply tell them what they are creating. Sometimes they like what I tell them, sometimes they don't.

None. I am quite happy with the world the way it is. All I do is describe it. People tend to forget that sometimes. I live in everybody else's creations. I simply tell them what they are creating. Sometimes they like what I tell them, sometimes they don't.

Napster :) It is kind of like me, I don't usually vote. The folks that do :) Really seem to be doing a really good job of keeping things streightened out. Yepper!

Napster, being happy with one's world is totally cool!

sonny

Dude, I have been a serious mystic for most of 52 years, :) Based on my experience I am inclined to agree with you! Yepper :)Excellent :)

I would asume your Athiest then?

I would think Athiests/Agnostics have alot of dreams and such and are much more in tune with them being OPEN to all possibilities (Not closing thier minds to 1 way of thinking)

Excellent :)

I would asume your Athiest then?

I would think Athiests/Agnostics have alot of dreams and such and are much more in tune with them being OPEN to all possibilities (Not closing thier minds to 1 way of thinking)

But yer forgetting one little iota.
Atheists are Closed minded.They Deny God exists.
Knowing what Scholars,Greek Philosophers and Theologians
have gleaned over the years,I doubt Atheists reach any Zenith of
great thinkers plateau.
How can one,flat out deny,then go about being open.
Answer me that first.
Then .. we'll move on to more contemplative assignments.

The Advancement of Learning {1623}
" Great hypocrites are the true atheists. "
-- Francis Bacon