The link between Mind and Social / Environmental-Issues.

The fast-paced, consumerist lifestyle of Industrial Society is causing exponential rise in psychological problems besides destroying the environment. All issues are interlinked. Our Minds cannot be peaceful when attention-spans are down to nanoseconds, microseconds and milliseconds. Our Minds cannot be peaceful if we destroy Nature.

Industrial Society Destroys Mind and Environment.

Subject : In a fast society slow emotions become extinct.
Subject : A thinking mind cannot feel.
Subject : Scientific/ Industrial/ Financial thinking destroys the planet.
Subject : Environment can never be saved as long as cities exist.


Emotion is what we experience during gaps in our thinking.

If there are no gaps there is no emotion.

Today people are thinking all the time and are mistaking thought (words/ language) for emotion.


When society switches-over from physical work (agriculture) to mental work (scientific/ industrial/ financial/ fast visuals/ fast words ) the speed of thinking keeps on accelerating and the gaps between thinking go on decreasing.

There comes a time when there are almost no gaps.

People become incapable of experiencing/ tolerating gaps.

Emotion ends.

Man becomes machine.


A society that speeds up mentally experiences every mental slowing-down as Depression / Anxiety.

A ( travelling )society that speeds up physically experiences every physical slowing-down as Depression / Anxiety.

A society that entertains itself daily experiences every non-entertaining moment as Depression / Anxiety.


Fast visuals/ words make slow emotions extinct.

Scientific/ Industrial/ Financial thinking destroys emotional circuits.

A fast (large) society cannot feel pain / remorse / empathy.

A fast (large) society will always be cruel to Animals/ Trees/ Air/ Water/ Land and to Itself.


To read the complete article please follow any of these links :



sushil_yadav

Fair enough, sir.

I myself find a peaceful slowing down when I am working on my land, away from the house and the television, the computer, and the telephone.
Landscaping down by my creek, with the sunlight streaming through the trees, and the water streaming and gurgling over over the rocks and tree roots, I feel a peace like I have never known.
Things do slow down, and I feel God's presence.

Strangely enough though, when I am on my motorcycle, careening along at 80 miles per hour, I also feel an odd slowing-down of my senses. There is a sympathetic vibration between the engine, the exhaust note, and the wind roaring over my windshield and onto my chest. I feel connected to both the road and to the sky, and I am truly flying.
I feel less of God's presence, but I truly hope he's around to bless all the bits and pieces of me, should a large truck fly in out of nowhere and crush me like a bug.

Are you more concerned with getting society to slow down, or helping people to deal with our fast-paced world in a manner that will help them stay sane and alive?

I think you'll have more luck with the latter than the former.

Good articles, though.
:thumbs:

Emotion is what we experience during gaps in our thinking.

If there are no gaps there is no emotion.

sushil, are you saying that emotion is separate from thinking?

Sparky2,

The human race is on a one way road to disaster.

There are no solutions - there will be no solutions. All the solutions made by humans have actually been problems in disguise. Once people switch-over from physical-work to mental-work most of them become incapable of doing full time physical work. Today people have become incapable of even walking - they need a car to go a short distance. Reversal is not possible - there is not enough land for all people to plough. And if we continue with the present city based lifestyle we will keep on making thousands of consumer goods - completly destroying the environment.

Science and technology has given us vaccines that have cured many diseases caused by virus and bacteria - greatly reducing the deaths that were caused by infectious diseases. But this has also led to increase in population. Our planet can neither sustain so many people nor this lifestyle.

sushil_yadav

Sal,

Emotion/ feeling is a subjective experience. More examples of subjective-experiences are Taste, Smell, Headache.

Visuals/ words can evoke, intensify and sustain emotions.
Visuals/ words are not emotions.

We can understand it this way. When we eat an apple we can feel the taste of apple. An apple can produce taste- but apple is not taste.

If apple juice is poured into a glass - the glass will not feel the taste [ it does not have the ability to feel taste]. If apple juice is put in the mouth of a person he will feel the taste - because he has the ability to feel taste.

Words/ thinking can evoke emotions - but words/ thinking are not emotions.

sushil_yadav

I know it seems bleak, but please remember how adaptable humans are.
If Iran or Pakistan were to start a nuclear war that the former Soviet Republics and the western powers felt compelled to finish, (and all electronic products and services were permanently discontinued because of the Electro-Magnetic Pulse, or EMP), then I feel confident that most of us would adapt and survive.

I am handy with firearms, though I don't exercise mine enough. Most of us could live off the land, and could learn to turn the golf courses into wheatfields. In the larger destroyed cities, there would be a short period of scavenging, followed by a longer period of cannibalism. After that, the great iron and concrete structures would be abandoned. In just a few years, the taller buildings would tumble, and the urban sprawl would homogenize into gritty, gray sand dunes.

I must disagree that there aren't enough acres to plough. There are billions of acres of un-touched lands yet to be explored, planted, and harvested.
We can overcome the technological and spiritual freight-train of destruction you describe and bemoan.
We can adapt and overcome.
We can survive.

Question is; do I have enough ammo to avoid being eaten?
:corn:

Basically I understand you are postulating that the human species will destroy the planet, primarily because our fast-paced life-style precludes us feeling sufficient emotion.

You are probably correct. We will destroy the planet, unless we destroy ourselves first.

At one time the people that populated the earth did there own hunting, gathering, farming etc., and were able, just, to feed themselves and their families. Times were probably very tough. However, both the people and nature survived and the planet was in good shape.

However, unlike animals, we also began to speak and then learned to read and write. This enabled us to transfer knowledge that animals could not.

People began to find easier and better ways to accomplish necessary tasks and thus began our dependency on skilled artisans to provide tools etc. No longer did the population consist solely of those that nurtured the land, it now contained those that plundered the planet's resources in order to provide tools.

And so began the slippery slope to the oblivion that you foresee. There is no way back, except by catastrophy, either man made or otherwise.

(1) A thinking species destroys the planet.
(2) Animals lived on earth for billions of years (in very large numbers)
without destroying nature.
(3) They did not destroy nature because their thinking / activity was
limited to searching for food for one time only.
(4) Man has existed on earth in large numbers for only a few thousand
years / a few hundred years.
(5) Within this short period Man has destroyed the environment.
(6) This destruction took place because of Man's thinking.
(7) When man thinks he makes things.
(8) When he makes things he kills animals / trees / air / water / land.
( Nothing can be made without killing these five elements of nature ).

(9) A thinking species destroys the planet.



Intelligence Is A Curse.

This planet is on the verge of total destruction.

The cause of destruction is – overactivity.
[Out of millions of species in this world the human-species is the only one that has indulged in overactivity]

The cause of overactivity is – Intelligence.
[The environment would never have got destroyed if Man had been only as intelligent as animals]

Intelligence is a curse - a disease - a disability - an abnormality.

Intelligence is the biggest cause/ source of destruction in this world.

[In fact Intelligence is the only cause of destruction in this world other than natural causes]



The destruction of environment can be divided into two parts - destruction of environment for producing food - and destruction of environment for making thousands of consumer goods. If we want to save environment we will have to bring down the second to the minimum level by not making all the unnecessary consumer goods.


sushil_yadav

I'm smart like Sushil too.

Sal,

Emotion/ feeling is a subjective experience. More examples of subjective-experiences are Taste, Smell, Headache.

Visuals/ words can evoke, intensify and sustain emotions.
Visuals/ words are not emotions.

We can understand it this way. When we eat an apple we can feel the taste of apple. An apple can produce taste- but apple is not taste.

If apple juice is poured into a glass - the glass will not feel the taste [ it does not have the ability to feel taste]. If apple juice is put in the mouth of a person he will feel the taste - because he has the ability to feel taste.

Words/ thinking can evoke emotions - but words/ thinking are not emotions.

sushil_yadav
Thanks sushil and welcome to allforums. Between your explanation and Oldtimer's I now understand where this thread was supposed to go :thumbs:

I'll just fade out quietly :D

(1) A thinking species destroys the planet.
(2) Animals lived on earth for billions of years (in very large numbers)
without destroying nature.
The cause of destruction is – overactivity.
[Out of millions of species in this world the human-species is the only one that has indulged in overactivity]
================================================== =

Welcome Sushil, Over-population is over-activity also. It does happen in the animal kingdom. When a population of animals overpopulate they destroy the food sources in their immediate environment. In history the animals migrated, until the environment recovered or if confined, disease culled the herd.
I believe the close living, and increasing international contact of the human race will allow, eventually, for a culling of the human herd.

If humans do contaminate the earth, to the point that habitation is impossible, after enough time passes the earth will recover. Without the parasitic human race.

The thinking mind can truly be your friend or enemy. Some of us can find the division between mental turmoil and peace-of-mind, some cannot. It has always been this way. It will probably continue this way.

Progress, whether good or bad, will continue. It will not be reversed intentionally. The answers to the problems that you mention are not a reversal of man's nature, but an adjustment to his attitude.

Dear Friends,

I want to thank everyone for reading the article and expressing your views.

I had earlier given links to my complete article. Those links are not working due to some problem. I want to give new links. To read the complete article "Industrial Society Destroys Mind and Environment" please follow any of these links :

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sushil_yadav

Two men looked from between the bars... one saw mud, the other saw stars.

Don't remember where that verse came from, but it seems to fit this subject.

Welcome to Allforums, Sushil Yadav. Although I don't necessary share your doomsday prediction... I did enjoy reading your article.

:)
SMW

The human race is on a one way road to disaster.

There are no solutions - there will be no solutions.
I would have been more weary if you had said that there are solutions but we are just not seeing it or doing it. Or if you had said that there are no solutions now, but a solution might be perceived one day we just need to work hard on finding it. 'Cause then we have a problem to solve.

But you are saying we have a problem, and it's not solvable. Well okay. Then we DON'T have a problem to solve! We have a problem, but let's not waste time solving it, since it's not solvable and will not be solvable.

People should spend time thinking about things that are solvable. Or stop exaggerating about something being "will never have a solution", when in fact you want people to think about it.

Over-population is over-activity also. It does happen in the animal kingdom. When a population of animals overpopulate they destroy the food sources in their immediate environment. In history the animals migrated, until the environment recovered or if confined, disease culled the herd.How do we know when there are too many people? Living standards have increased and starvation has decreased as the world's population has grown. Major countries are coming out of the developing phase--China, India, Thailand, Vietnam, Iran, Egypt, Mexico, Brazil, South Africa. Even the worst situations in Africa are better than a generation ago (with a few exceptions). Living standards in Europe and North America and East Asia are at a level unimaginable a century ago.

(I went to Spain last year for a few weeks and could not believe the change that has happened in the last twenty years since I was last there. This is now a first world country).

In short, the environmental extremist who sees human activity as harmful is just a nut case with no sense of reality. It is easy to prattle threats and dangers and gives people a sense of sophistication; reality is far more hopeful.

I'm smart like Sushil too.
Yeah, but only California Rolls.

Welcome sushil_yadav!

Industrial Society Destroys Mind and Environment.

Subject : In a fast society slow emotions become extinct.
Subject : A thinking mind cannot feel. I agree with some of the general sentiments of your opening post. The fast society thing can be illustrated by saying "cut" everytime the scene changes on the television. During Pop Idol it varies between .5 and 4 secs, I find. Then come the adverts, and again it's cut-cut-cut.

I got sick of it. I haven't had a television for 5 months now and it is much more peaceful.

Overall however I side most with thislin's optimistic sentiments regarding technological development.

I'm smart like Sushil too.Yeah, but only California Rolls.
http://www.peoplesrepublicofdis.co.uk/albums/album16/tumbleweed.sized.jpeg

Yeah, those kind.

How do we know when there are too many people? Living standards have increased and starvation has decreased as the world's population has grown. Major countries are coming out of the developing phase--China, India, Thailand, Vietnam, Iran, Egypt, Mexico, Brazil, South Africa. Even the worst situations in Africa are better than a generation ago (with a few exceptions). Living standards in Europe and North America and East Asia are at a level unimaginable a century ago.

(I went to Spain last year for a few weeks and could not believe the change that has happened in the last twenty years since I was last there. This is now a first world country).

In short, the environmental extremist who sees human activity as harmful is just a nut case with no sense of reality. It is easy to prattle threats and dangers and gives people a sense of sophistication; reality is far more hopeful.


Regarding Industrialization there is an important point to be noted. Modern Industrial Society has existed for 100 years - 200 years - 300 years. When we compare this period with the total duration for which human society has existed on earth this period is so short - so small that it almost does'nt exist. It is almost zero.

Material things don't bring peace and happiness. Today billions of people have got things which even Kings did not have in the past. Car, computer, television, fridge, telephone - no King ever had these things. But people are still restless and unhappy.

Industrial Society is consuming psychiatric drugs/ sleeping pills by tonnes and tonnes.

A very large percentage of the population is surviving on precription drugs, illegal drugs, alcohol and cigarettes.

One-third of the population has become fat like elephants.

People talk about increase in lifespan. What is the use of increased lifespan if people have to resort to Drugs, Alcohol and Cigarettes to pull through life. And just wait a few more years - the average lifespan will soon become zero - human life will cease to exist on earth.



Consumerist-Lifestyle is just not sustainable. If we do not immediately return to living a very simple and frugal life then very soon there will be no human life on earth. We would need several planets[earths] to sustain the present lifestyle.

The human race has been destroying/ killing animals, trees, air, water, land and people from the very beginning of civilization. Science and Technology has increased this destructive capacity millions of times.

Every man is a serial-killer. The per-capita destruction of Environment - per-capita destruction of Animals, Trees, Air, Water and Land is thousands of times greater than what it was 1000 years ago - 500 years ago - 200 years ago.

The Military-Industrial Complex is all set to destroy whatever life and environment that remains on earth.


There is a reason why the two World Wars happened in the recent past and not 1000 years ago?

It was not possible to have world wars 1000 years ago. World Wars became possible only when Science and Technology developed aeroplanes, ships and other carriers which could transport millions of troops and millions of tonnes of weapons[once again a creation of science and technology] from one corner of the globe to another.

And today one does'nt even need all these to fight a war. One just needs to move finger-tips to launch missiles that can destroy the planet several times over.

Right at this moment there are several countries fighting wars with one another. There is internal war going on in almost half of the the countries of the world. All these wars are being fuelled and sustained by billions of tonnes of weapons produced by the Military-Industrial Complex every year.

And it is going to get worse and worse every day.

If you kill one person they call it murder.
If you kill a few hundred they call it terrorism.
If you kill a few million they call it war.

Science and Technology has made this world [millions of times] more violent and unsafe than before.

Science and Technology has produced billions of tonnes of weapons and explosives - chemical, biological and nuclear weapons - millions of tonnes of Radioactive material [ which will soon be used to make dirty bombs - which are going to contaminate the environment for hundreds and thousands of years]. Science and Technology is the real terrorist.

sushil_yadav

PlanetSave (http://www.planetsave.com/ps_mambo/option,com_simpleboard/Itemid,75/func,view/id,68/catid,6/)

FreeInfoSociety (http://www.freeinfosociety.com/wforum/viewtopic.php?t=3649)

ePhilosopher (http://www.ephilosopher.com/bb-topic-244.html)

As I said, it is easy to think one sophisticated who always points out problems (and exaggerates them). On the whole I think mankind is making wonderful progress and I think those who try to ignore this have a distorted and unreal and harmful view.

Man can repair and restore things that have been made by man himself. Car, Computer, Aeroplane, Rocket - if anything goes wrong with these things man can repair and restore.

Man cannot repair and restore Nature/ Environment - because man did not make Nature/ Environment. Once a Forest is destroyed - it is gone for millions of years. One cannot create a Forest in 5 or 50 years - it takes millions of years to make a forest - containing millions of species of animals, insects, birds, plants and trees. Man can create a plantation in 5 or 50 years - not a forest.

The only way to save Environment is by not destroying it - leave it alone - leave it undisturbed. If you destroy Environment you cannot repair and restore it.

sushil_yadav

Industrial Society Destroys Mind and Environment
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*throw up hands and runs off screaming*

THE SKY IS FALLING, THE SKY IS FALLING!!

How do we know when there are too many people? Living standards have increased and starvation has decreased as the world's population has grown. Major countries are coming out of the developing phase--China, India, Thailand, Vietnam, Iran, Egypt, Mexico, Brazil, South Africa. Even the worst situations in Africa are better than a generation ago (with a few exceptions). Living standards in Europe and North America and East Asia are at a level unimaginable a century ago.

(I went to Spain last year for a few weeks and could not believe the change that has happened in the last twenty years since I was last there. This is now a first world country).

In short, the environmental extremist who sees human activity as harmful is just a nut case with no sense of reality. It is easy to prattle threats and dangers and gives people a sense of sophistication; reality is far more hopeful.

Reality is that nothing is forever, no matter how much you may want it to be.

I guess industry and productivity give us a discretion. We can determine anything by many information. Though we misthink about before modern ages that these era have high moral, there were so many unethical things such as slavery, racism, justice on a power, witch hunting, looking punishment as an amusement. Being said old-age people that "We had a high moral in the old days" is not just on modern moral but just on their moral. Like we don't mind taking a cloth exposing skin and taking ice cream, they don't mind child abuse and suppressing the right of labor.

Destroying environment isn't solved completely yet, but now productivity spreads to matter on environment. Though halfway productivity couldn't consider environment, we already have a enough productivity to look matter of environment. Because of that we already have surplus production power in global economy, we have to make productivity to improve environmental protection.

I dont think he is saying it is harmful at the moment. I think he is trying to point out how it could be potentially harmful if we dont notice the work it took to make things better.

I'd like to add that idustial production in a capitalist set turns men into nothing but cogs. It destroys his worth by his work being unfulfilling and him being easily replaceable.

Worker controlled factories can eliviate these problems by allowing members to enjoy the fruits of their production and having a say over the environment in which they produce.

Cities are not unsustable but the current practices of its inhabitants are.

The world is overcrowded. But since currency/econmies are inflation/constant growth based governments, media and business will never push for lowered birth rates. Infinite growth with finite resources is suicidal.

Watching the History Channel one would consider that nature itself has destroyed more than man, with its climate shifts, volcanoes, asteroids, and forest fires.

At least more people are becoming aware that there are positive actions available that we can take to help the environment.

Well gee, let's take a look at how things were back when life was "simpler."


Let's talk about pollution for a moment. Pre-industrial society was dependent on the horse and the ox to move goods from point A to point B, at least it was one didn't live in a port city. Horses and oxen make manure, lots of it. Towns and cities were knee deep in horse manure. All of which wound up in the street along with the garbage from houses and the human excrement. Did I mention the human excrement part? BEFORE there were our modern sewage treatment plants, people who lived in the city did their business in a chamber pot which was then dumped out into the street with the garbage and the horse manure and everything else. THEN it would rain and all this wonderful stuff found it's way to every single well, creek, brook and river. Drink THAT water and you would get sick. In Medieval times, people drank beer or wine because the water was bad for you. Period. Actually, the idea of drinking beer instead of water was firmly established in the U.S. colonies because our cities weren't cleaner than what could be found in Europe, dammit.

Slow down? You'd better believe you were slowing down. Nothing was quick or convienient. You want water? You go to the well or the pump or the creek for a bucket of it. A bucket. And at eight pounds per gallon, you didn't bring home a lot of it. Water for cooking, cleaning and personal hygeine. Ain't no running to the faucet on this one. You had to haul it home and heat it for cooking and cleaning. And how were you going to heat that water? With a fire of course, and how was that fire fueled? With wood or coal. City people would have to go out and buy the fuel, country people chopped their own wood. Every single day of their lives. Chop down the tree, saw the logs into rounds, split the rounds into useable pieces, LIGHT the fire THEN start on your cooking and cleaning and whatever. Once the fire was lit and the water was heated, then you could do things like shaving and laundry. Not a quick process, dammit.

Have I mentioned the laundry yet? Forget about throwing clothes in the washing machine and pushing buttons. This was a two day labor intensive job. One had to boil the water and put it into a huge washtub, throw the clothes in and wash every single piece by hand using soap flakes that were generally ineffective when compared to our modern detergent. Oh, and did I mention that the washtubs were major sources of scalds for children, when children didn't fall in and drown? Change your underwear day? Not back then you did! You WORE your underwear for days on end, it was too much work otherwise.

Bathing? One had to haul water from the well or pump, haul it home, heat it up, THEN fill a bathtub with it before you bathed. This wasn't an everyday activity. At best it was once a week and probably less when it was 25 degrees and snowing outside.

Food? No refridgeration. No freezers, no effecient means of trasport. When it came to vegetables, with a few exceptions like apples, onions, carrots, potatoes, which could be stored long term in a root cellar, if it wasn't in season, you weren't getting it. Forget about all those nice oranges and bananas and kiwis and strawberries we're used to having. All very rare and very expensive. Same with the vegetables like lettuce, asparagus, corn, string beans. People got desperate for fresh vegetable around about Febuary or March.

Same thing with meat. If it wasn't smoke, salted, dried or made into sausage, it went bad in a few days and it was expensive to boot.

The work? Wasn't any such thing as a forty hour week and weekends off. One worked every single day. Getting up, hauling water, chopping wood, mucking out stalls, milking cows, feeding chickens and then working in the fields, which involved the plowing, planting, weeding, fertilizing, harvesting, threshing and storing. People in cities worked just as hard. Go to the Mystic Seaport or Sturbridge Village here in New England and ask about hours. 12 or 14 hour days were the norm and it WAS a six day week when it wasn't seven, dammit. A clerk had to be at the place of business at 6 in the morning, start the fire, get everything up and running and stay there till 9 that night from Monday through Saturday. Not much of a life, dammit. And it wasn't like the work was mentally stimulating. You try chopping wood, weeding, milking cows, hauling water, mucking out stalls, day after day after day and see how you like it, dammit.

Travel. The horse and buggy averaged a speed of 3 miles per hour, five at top speed. Otherwise you wear out the horse. So get a map and draw a circle of about 10 miles. That would be as far as you were going, dammit. It would take almost half a day to get there, then you had to go back, detach the horse from the buggy, rub the horse down, put it in the stall and feed it, THEN you had to haul the water light the fire and prepare some kind of dinner. Travel wasn't something most did.

Why am I writing this? I want to destroy the illusion that things were better back then because they were "slower." It was "slower" back then because doing normal everyday things took a hell of a lot longer back then. A lot of menial chores that just took up so much time without much of a break, ever. It was rough back breaking work just to survive, never mind having the time to set aside for leisure or pursuit of ideas or whatever.

Also, things were NOT cleaner back then. Food spoiled, the cities were garbage dumps, the water often very unsafe to drink.

In our industrial age, garbage is carefully hauled away and placed into a landfill, our sewage is treated and made biologically safe before dumped into rivers, our cities aren't full of horseshit. We have controls over power plants so cities and countryside aren't covered with soot. Our rivers are much cleaner and the atmosphere has been clearing since air quality has been taken seriously. To state that we're destroying the planet is complete bilge, dammit.

For sushi..........dammit.



Regarding Industrialization there is an important point to be noted. Modern Industrial Society has existed for 100 years - 200 years - 300 years. When we compare this period with the total duration for which human society has existed on earth this period is so short - so small that it almost does'nt exist. It is almost zero.

Actually about 500 years. The Euroepeans did yeomans work in learning from other cultures, questioning the power of Royalty as well as the Church and it's place in society as well as deciding that a person who worked for a living isn't such a bad thing after all. The Renaissance, the Enlightenment and the Scientific revolution led to science, democracy and capitalism which freed the minds of people to invent and transform society into the pinnacle of civilization. Say what you want about the evils of industrial society, but you wouldn't give it up, ever, dammit.

Material things don't bring peace and happiness. Today billions of people have got things which even Kings did not have in the past. Car, computer, television, fridge, telephone - no King ever had these things. But people are still restless and unhappy.

Industrial Society is consuming psychiatric drugs/ sleeping pills by tonnes and tonnes.

Because a few people aren't "happy" in our society is hardly the rallying cry for us to give up everything and return to the cave, dammit.


One-third of the population has become fat like elephants.

People talk about increase in lifespan. What is the use of increased lifespan if people have to resort to Drugs, Alcohol and Cigarettes to pull through life. And just wait a few more years - the average lifespan will soon become zero - human life will cease to exist on earth.

In the first place, people have been merrily tripping out on drugs and alchohol since time out of mind. It's hardly something new. Secondly, given the choice where getting fat and living longer on the one hand and disease, death and malnutrition on the other, I'll deal with the problems of being too fat and living too long, dammit. Now, where's my pipe and my beer?

Consumerist-Lifestyle is just not sustainable. If we do not immediately return to living a very simple and frugal life then very soon there will be no human life on earth. We would need several planets[earths] to sustain the present lifestyle.

That's a load of bilge. They've been saying the same old tired line of crap since the 60s. Did you think you could post what you did and not run across someone with a long memory? During the Carter Administration we were supposed to run out of oil in ten years. HMMMMMMMMMM, still plenty of oil. During that time, we were supposed to be on the verge of an Ice Age, that little theory went down the toilet and clogged it good to boot, dammit. We're not running out of supplies of needed materials, salt, copper, aluminum, coal and steel are in way plentiful quanitities and people have learned to harvest trees in a sustainable way. We've learned to get far more bang for the buck out of plastic. There isn't an acute shortage of any material we need to sustain ourselves, dammit.


The human race has been destroying/ killing animals, trees, air, water, land and people from the very beginning of civilization. Science and Technology has increased this destructive capacity millions of times.

Not necessarily. In the U.S., every single species of game animal hunted are not only doing well, their numbers are increasing. Deer, elk, turkey, ducks, pronghorn, buffalo, bears, coyotes, alligators, mountain lions, foxes, racoon, beaver, upland birds are all doing very, very well. Of course, hunters put biologists in charge of managing game animals about a century ago and accepted their rules as to what can be hunted, where it can be hunted and how much can be taken. The same science and technology you despise was instrumental in restoring game populations. And the rising tide lifts all boats. Species not hunted are doing well as well. I can go to the local trout hatchery in winter and see Bald Eagles. Herons are thriving, as are many songbirds that depend on forests, dammit.


There is a reason why the two World Wars happened in the recent past and not 1000 years ago?

It was not possible to have world wars 1000 years ago. World Wars became possible only when Science and Technology developed aeroplanes, ships and other carriers which could transport millions of troops and millions of tonnes of weapons[once again a creation of science and technology] from one corner of the globe to another.

You'd better read up on some history, dammit. The Mongol Hordes didn't have technology any more advanced than the horse and the bow and arrow, yet they managed to kill zillions from China all the way through to Eastern Europe. They burned and slew their way all across the largest continent on the planet. They would've gotten Japan as well had it not been for bad timing and a couple of typhoons, dammit. The pre Industrial British managed to get into fights with just about everyone on the planet with technology no more advanced than the sail and the cannon. To lay blame on mass killing on the Industrial Age is simple folly. Dammit.


Right at this moment there are several countries fighting wars with one another. There is internal war going on in almost half of the the countries of the world. All these wars are being fuelled and sustained by billions of tonnes of weapons produced by the Military-Industrial Complex every year.

Pah, people have ALWAYS been fighting with one another long before the AK 47 and the Aircraft Carrier, dammit.


Science and Technology has made this world [millions of times] more violent and unsafe than before.

Kind of like saying a crowing rooster causes the sun to rise. You've got it backwards. Science and Technology does what it does. I prefer to lay blame on all the unrest on the Islamists, the Communists and other such thugs who are trying to make people do and believe in things they don't want to do or believe in. Dammit.

Well gee, let's take a look at how things were back when life was "simpler."



Pay attention Ivan!

Well gee, let's take a look at how things were back when life was "simpler.
I think the point is that we can apply what we have learned from industrial society and make corrections on it.

And as far as horse shit goes it did not completely fill cities...Horse shit is an excellant fertilizer and was utilized extensively. Modern sewage plants are good but even the romans had sewers.
The work? Wasn't any such thing as a forty hour week and weekends off. People in Indigenous societies worked around 20 hours a week. Many were semi-nomadic leaving no foot print on the land. Food was generally plentiful and war non-existant.

war is fought over land and resources. If family/tribal connections are your most important thing in your life you sure aren't going to try and kill others by risking such.

I'm not advocating going back to such things but merely point out there were many positive aspects. Modern society has convinced man that he is no longer a part of nature. This thinking will be our downfall.

I'll agree, man needs to get more in tune with nature. But, just when was war non existent? Recorded history does not reflect any such period. Wars have been fought over ideas, as will as for material gain, family risk be damned.

I think the point is that we can apply what we have learned from industrial society and make corrections on it.

Kind of an Industrial Age lite. Less filling, tastes bland. I'm not buying it, dammit.


And as far as horse shit goes it did not completely fill cities...

Read some history, the it was THE headache of major cities. New York comes to mind. It had to be gathered, then it had to be disposed somewhere, if it got disposed of at all.

Horse shit is an excellant fertilizer and was utilized extensively.

Not when it rains and the raw manure winds up in the rivers with the rest of the garbage and sewage, the stuff was terrible.


Modern sewage plants are good but even the romans had sewers.

Yes, the Romans had a sewage system. After the Roman Empire fell, it would be nearly a thousand years before such a system was redevoloped in the Western World. But that wasn't what I was talking about. TREATED sewage, sewage with most of the solids, bacteria and other nasties eliminated before it gets dumped into rivers. That is a strictly modern, industrial phenomenae, dammit.



Iffy at best. There were times when there was nothing but work to be done, and times when there wasn't anything to do. The idle period happened in late winter when food got scarce and there wasn't much to do about it.

Modern society has convinced man that he is no longer a part of nature. This thinking will be our downfall. ....I'll agree, man needs to get more in tune with nature.

Okay, let's see. I've dabbled in hunting, fishing and the gathering of wild edible plants. I've eaten things that would freak most people out. Pokeweed is excellent as well as dandelion, cattail and fiddlehead ferns. I've eaten mourning doves, pigeon, turtle, squirell as well as rabbit. I've eaten a few species of mushrooms. You guys going to take the time and effort to learn what plants are edible and when? You guys going to learn to go and kill your own meat? To make your own leather? You going to learn to garden and can your own fruits and vegetables? How about drying mushrooms, fruits and meats? Or are you people going to pick up a couple of granola bars, go into the woods and "commune" with nature. Got news for you on that issue, your not communing, you have no idea what's out there and any animals you happen to see really wish you'd go somewhere else, dammit.

To me, it seems that most of the idiots who think they're getting touch with or communing with nature know zilch about how nature works and how it can support you, dammit.

I do not wish to return to the "good life."
Give me modern medical care, transportation, grocery stores, and air conditioning.
Hell, I'm too lazy to work from sun to sun. In the good old days I would probably be dead by my age.

Plenty of animals have been hunted to extinction and plenty of land has been deforested by indiginous peoples. The only difference between them and modern man is the efficiency at which they're able to accomplish it, not the nobility of their viewpoint about nature.

(1) A thinking species destroys the planet.
(2) Animals lived on earth for billions of years (in very large numbers)
without destroying nature.
(3) They did not destroy nature because their thinking / activity was
limited to searching for food for one time only.
(4) Man has existed on earth in large numbers for only a few thousand
years / a few hundred years.
(5) Within this short period Man has destroyed the environment.
(6) This destruction took place because of Man's thinking.
(7) When man thinks he makes things.
(8) When he makes things he kills animals / trees / air / water / land.
( Nothing can be made without killing these five elements of nature ).

(9) A thinking species destroys the planet.



Intelligence Is A Curse.

This planet is on the verge of total destruction.

The cause of destruction is – overactivity.
[Out of millions of species in this world the human-species is the only one that has indulged in overactivity]

The cause of overactivity is – Intelligence.
[The environment would never have got destroyed if Man had been only as intelligent as animals]

Intelligence is a curse - a disease - a disability - an abnormality.

Intelligence is the biggest cause/ source of destruction in this world.

[In fact Intelligence is the only cause of destruction in this world other than natural causes]



The destruction of environment can be divided into two parts - destruction of environment for producing food - and destruction of environment for making thousands of consumer goods. If we want to save environment we will have to bring down the second to the minimum level by not making all the unnecessary consumer goods.


sushil_yadav

It is true that the fast paced society causes lots of stress, commotion and destruction to people physically, mentally and spirtually, but you are incorrect to say that "intellgence is a curse." It is not intellgience, advancement in technology, producing of consumer goods that is the problem, it is mankind's mismanagement of these things that has caused the problem. Mankind's mismanagement has caused this world to be so complex that nothing is simple anymore. Mankind as a whole, has not tooken very good care of his resources, thus causing our society to be fast, paced and stressful.

I'm smart like Sushil too.
if intelligence is a curse, you are surely blessed.:lolhit:

I do not wish to return to the "good life."
Give me modern medical care, transportation, grocery stores, and air conditioning.
Hell, I'm too lazy to work from sun to sun. In the good old days I would probably be dead by my age.
cancer at 70 or polio at 12? i'll take global warming over being knee deep in horse poop any day.:thumbs:

Material things don't bring peace and happiness. Today billions of people have got things which even Kings did not have in the past. Car, computer, television, fridge, telephone - no King ever had these things. But people are still restless and unhappy.

That is absolutely true! Material things don't buy you happiness. And they don't bring about "peace of mind." Many buy into the deception that if they could just have this, or have that, their lives would be in place. The grass simply looks greener on the other side. When they actually cross over to the other side, they find out it wasn't so green anymore. Having an abundance of material things, you can still live in misery. A matter of fact, in order to have all those things, it has caused both the husband and wife in the family, to both have to work in order to afford these things. That causes a lot of stress since they spend so much time working, so they can have the things that we are supposed to have in this day and age. It causes people to be in a hurry to ge things done. This is why the service industry has been able to thrive. Many are so busy, they are too tired at the end of the day to cook, so they order out.

Industrial Society is consuming psychiatric drugs/ sleeping pills by tonnes and tonnes.

A very large percentage of the population is surviving on precription drugs, illegal drugs, alcohol and cigarettes.

That results in the fact that people don't know who they are and they are trying to surpress their problems. They turn to these things hoping it would fill their void, their emptiness, only to realize later, it did nothing but cause more trouble for them.

One-third of the population has become fat like elephants.

That is because of the crap they put in the food.

People talk about increase in lifespan. What is the use of increased lifespan if people have to resort to Drugs, Alcohol and Cigarettes to pull through life. And just wait a few more years -

Only the Lord can give you true meaning and purpose in life and truly give you a peace of mind. People turn to all sorts of things to fill their void and emptiness, but come up empty for doing so.




Every man is a serial-killer. The per-capita destruction of Environment - per-capita destruction of Animals, Trees, Air, Water and Land is thousands of times greater than what it was 1000 years ago - 500 years ago - 200 years ago.

Mankind has been caught up in a web of dectruction. The love of money has played a big part in it. For example, about the food industry having cheap additives, and using byproducts and putting in chemicals, it is to maxime their profits. It causes the quality of the food to be awful, which leads to increased amounts of sickness and disease.

The Military-Industrial Complex is all set to destroy whatever life and environment that remains on earth.

The desire for power and control has lead to that too.


There is a reason why the two World Wars happened in the recent past and not 1000 years ago?

Yes, it has a lot to do with power and control. Many world leaders have a hidden agenda.

It was not possible to have world wars 1000 years ago. World Wars became possible only when Science and Technology developed aeroplanes, ships and other carriers which could transport millions of troops and millions of tonnes of weapons[once again a creation of science and technology] from one corner of the globe to another.

And if peope's hearts weren't bent on detruction and evil, all these planes, ships, weapons, science and technology wouldn't be used to bring about all this destruction.

sushil yadav, I do not think it is a slow move of humanity to disaster. The planet can only take so much and then there is an automatic reversal. That is not a disaster.