Sherwood Ross: The United States of England
Monday, 28 August 2006, 12:55
Opinion: Sherwood Ross

The United States of England
By Sherwood Ross

Why don’t we call America the United States of England? It may be a separate entity politically and geographically, but it truly carries forward the imperial spirit of the old British Empire.

There was a period from 1776, when “the shot heard ‘round the world” was fired, to 1846, when America invaded Mexico, a span of 70 years, that the new nation “conceived in liberty” was, at the least, an imperfect democracy, without tyranny on its mind. But by the time Congressman Abraham Lincoln of Illinois assailed President Polk’s invasion of Mexico, the spirit of Liberty had succumbed to the spirit of Empire.

(Rest of the article at: http://www.scoop.co.nz/stories/HL0608/S00331.htm)

What do you expect?
This country was, by and large, founded by the English.
The founding fathers were transplanted Englishmen. Lincoln was of English stock.
So was Lee, however.
The power brokers even now (ie the Brahmins of Boston) are of English ancestry.

What do you expect?
This country was, by and large, founded by the English.
The founding fathers were transplanted Englishmen. Lincoln was of English stock.
So was Lee, however.
The power brokers even now (ie the Brahmins of Boston) are of English ancestry.

Just because you are of english ancestry, doesn't mean you act imperial. Especially true for americans, as your values are build on the complete opposite of the imperial mindset.

That sounds very noble, elp, and in many ways it's true of this country (or should be) and in many ways it is not....there are some who are enlightened and believe in the Revolutionary Cause, and others who don't, or who consider the Cause a load of pigslop....and even Jefferson, a fine man, in his Declaration, meant by "All men are created eqaul" only white, property owning men.

The man was enlightened, but not THAT enlightened, that he would even consider giving women or slaves the vote--in this respect he was similar to most of his time...this country is still building itself and always will, but class structures remain, and the old British Imperial mindset, in many ways...this will eventually destroy us. Great.

That sounds very noble, elp, and in many ways it's true of this country (or should be) and in many ways it is not....there are some who are enlightened and believe in the Revolutionary Cause, and others who don't, or who consider the Cause a load of pigslop....and even Jefferson, a fine man, in his Declaration, meant by "All men are created eqaul" only white, property owning men.

The man was enlightened, but not THAT enlightened, that he would even consider giving women or slaves the vote--in this respect he was similar to most of his time...this country is still building itself and always will, but class structures remain, and the old British Imperial mindset, in many ways...this will eventually destroy us. Great.

If you want to see class structures move to europe. While differences exist in the US, the notion of class is as widespread as leprosy.

While I agree class strata exists more powerfully in Europe, it also exists here and it is quite widespread.
Witness the Irish born coming up against the landed aristocracy of the Boston Brahmins--even now there's many of the "incorrect" class not allowed in certain clubs, etc.
And New Orleans has more rigid social stratification than Boston, as do many other older cities.
It is there, just not talked about and ignored--until a certain person of a certain class runs up against it.
People DO still talk about "coming from a 'good' family"...by that they mean landowners who've been in a certain area a long time.

Class is very much alive and well in the US.

Class in the US is relatively similar to the UK, with the addition in the UK of the "aristoracy"

France is much more divided by class.

I'm proud to be of English stock.

While I agree class strata exists more powerfully in Europe, it also exists here and it is quite widespread.
Witness the Irish born coming up against the landed aristocracy of the Boston Brahmins--even now there's many of the "incorrect" class not allowed in certain clubs, etc.
And New Orleans has more rigid social stratification than Boston, as do many other older cities.
It is there, just not talked about and ignored--until a certain person of a certain class runs up against it.
People DO still talk about "coming from a 'good' family"...by that they mean landowners who've been in a certain area a long time.

While i don't deny that an element of it exists in the US it is limited. To suggest that it is widespread, outside of a few centers in New England and patches in the south, is stretching it.

If you want to see class structures move to europe. While differences exist in the US, the notion of class is as widespread as leprosy.

Not every european country. The scandinavian countries (Denmark, Sweden, Norway, Finland, Iceland) are in fact very class-less as a result of 70 years of a very effective social security net, with citizens gladly paying about 40-50% taxes to keep up this system. Therefore, it may sound crazy to you that we are actually the happiest country on earth according to a 2006 report! http://www.msnbc.msn.com/id/14069879/

While i don't deny that an element of it exists in the US it is limited. To suggest that it is widespread, outside of a few centers in New England and patches in the south, is stretching it.

Ask your "average" black how they feel about your statement. As for your class structure it is throughout your country. There is still "new money" and "old money" and the two shall never meet.

It is true of Canada too. A trip to our capital in Ottawa will show you who rules the country and who controls the money...and it isn't your average middle class person, and it isn't the silly sod who just won the lottery.

They are well hidden and well protected and you will never meet them in a social club or restaurant that you will ever frequent.

Not every european country. The scandinavian countries (Denmark, Sweden, Norway, Finland, Iceland) are in fact very class-less as a result of 70 years of a very effective social security net, with citizens gladly paying about 40-50% taxes to keep up this system. Therefore, it may sound crazy to you that we are actually the happiest country on earth according to a 2006 report! http://www.msnbc.msn.com/id/14069879/

You do have an amazing social structure. I wish we here in Canada would lean just a little more in that direction.

You do have an amazing social structure. I wish we here in Canada would lean just a little more in that direction.

It comes with its own price. While very egalitarian and admirable they also have inordinately high rates of alcoholism and suicide.

Especially true for americans, as your values are build on the complete opposite of the imperial mindset.

?!?!

America's history of imperialist ambitions (and foreign aggression) goes back over a hundred years.

It comes with its own price. While very egalitarian and admirable they also have inordinately high rates of alcoholism and suicide.

Long, tough winters. Nothing to really do but sit around and drink. Cabin fever sets in. It's either dark all the time or never really dark.

It comes with its own price. While very egalitarian and admirable they also have inordinately high rates of alcoholism and suicide.

Long, tough winters. Nothing to really do but sit around and drink. Cabin fever sets in. It's either dark all the time or never really dark..

So would you say then weather related rather than anything to do within the structure of the society?
I wonder then if the stats would reflect that about Canada's northern Inuit population...the same should then hold true!

Not weather related entirely, but it's certainly part of the picture. Alcoholism also follows family lines, even if there are some folks who don't believe in the hereditary factors. Alcoholism is a medical disease with behavioral & societal components.

Damn those American sepratists terrorists. How dare they spit in the face of England..

One of our great strengths in the US is our shallowness and vapidity. As a result, membership in our upper class strata is almost entirely dictated by money, which means that anybody can eventually be part of it.

I think "old money" is such a freakishly small group that being excluded from their enclaves is not a real issue for most people.

So would you say then weather related rather than anything to do within the structure of the society?
I wonder then if the stats would reflect that about Canada's northern Inuit population...the same should then hold true!

Denmark and Sweden's latitude are pretty consistent with Canada's. Weather doesn't explain it all.

It comes with its own price. While very egalitarian and admirable they also have inordinately high rates of alcoholism and suicide.

Well... not too well founded when looking at the statistics. Denmark only 27th when it comes to suicide ratings. Norway, which very much similar socially (and much darker!) hold the 43th place, where the US is 45th.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_countries_by_suicide_rate

But alcoholism is another story - I couldn't find a statistic, but I think Denmark is in top 10... I blame the Inuits from Greenland, those people can't hold their booze! :)

In addition to affecting levels of trust and civic engagement, inequality in society has also shown to be highly correlated with crime rates. Most studies looking into the relationship between crime and inequality have concentrated on homicides - since homicides are almost identically defined across all nations and juristictions. There have been over fifty studies showing tendencies for violence to be more common in societies where income differnces are larger. Research has been conducted comparing developed countries with undeveloped countries, as well as studying areas within countries. Daly et al. 2001 found that among U.S States and Canadian Provinces there is a ten-fold difference in homicide rates related to inequality. They estimated that about half of all variations in homicide rates can be accounted for by differences in the amount of inequality in each province or state. Fajnzylber et al. 2002 found a similar relationship worldwide. Among comments in academic literature on the relationship between homicides and inequality are:
"[T]he most consistent finding in cross-national research on homicides has been that of a positive association between income inequality and homicides."(Neapolitan 1999 pp 260)
"[E]conomic inequality is positively and significantly related to rates of homicide despite an extensive list of conceptually relevant controls. The fact that this relationship is found with the most recent data and using a different measure of economic inequality from previous research, suggests that the finding is very robust." (Lee and Bankston 1999 pp 50)

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Economic_inequality

A friend of mine has been trying to come to the United States from India for almost a decade. Finally I said to him, “Why are you so eager to come to America?”
“Because”, he said, “I really want to move to a country where the poor people are fat.”
.
- Dinesh DeSouza

heh...

... membership in our upper class strata is almost entirely dictated by money, which means that anybody can eventually be part of it ...

The Kennedys are a good example.

The Kennedys are a good example.

LOL, they were still considered social climbers by the Old Guard.

English stock.
Usually people value other people for their good heart and for their good thoughts, not for the place they were born, or the place their ancestors come from. "Stock" just sounds to me like saying, my dog is of "English stock", you know, the English Setter, the English Terrier. I hear more of this word when people refer to animals, specially for cattle.
No offense intended.

Denmark and Sweden's latitude are pretty consistent with Canada's. Weather doesn't explain it all.
Most of southern Canada (where most of their population lives) is consistent with the latitude of the southern European cites like, Madrid, Rome, Athens, not with the northern cities or countries.

No offense intended.
None taken.

Its the same old storey,the WASP conspiracy against the world,most Americans arent from that breed of people,yet their country is Governed by its standards and beliefs daily.