http://www.consumeraffairs.com/news04/2006/08/chicago_retailers.html

The Chicago City Council enacted the measure to great fanfare. It would require that big box stores pay a minimum of $13 in wage and health benefits by 2010.

Retailers were quick to react, saying it would not be worth doing business in Chicago. Target canceled plans to open a new superstore in a blighted area on the North side and Wal-Mart says its plans to build 20 new stores in the city over the next five years are "on hold."

Getting past the issue of whether the minimum wage needs to be increased, I think the message for politicians is clear. Companies can and will go elsewhere, so you'd better do everything in your power to make your city/county/state/country a good place in which to do business. You may not like it, you may think it's unfair, but that's reality. So instead of higher paying job, you now have no jobs. Instead of commercial development and taxable activity, you have nothing. Duh.

It's not mentioned in this article, but the law applied to retailers with 90,000 square feet of retail space or more. If increasing the minimum wage is good, why is it only good for some?

Some issues like the minimum wage really shouldn't be dealt with at the local level. While I'd like to see higher wages in areas with higher costs of living a better solution is a national single-payer health insurance program combined with a modest increase in the minimum wage. Walmart, one of the nation's largest employers, provides health insurance for only 43% of it's workers. Take the problem (which they have no interest in solving) out of their hands altogether and they will no longer be the target (pun unintentional) of these kinds of counter-productive measures.

Want a real eye-opener? Regardless of your current salary, for one week, live as though you're drawing a minimum wage.

Retailers won't stay gone, nor will they truly refrain from investing, they'll only bitch more.

Companies can and will go elsewhere, so you'd better do everything in your power to make your city/county/state/country a good place in which to do business. You may not like it, you may think it's unfair, but that's reality. So instead of higher paying job, you now have no jobs. Instead of commercial development and taxable activity, you have nothing. Duh.

It's not mentioned in this article, but the law applied to retailers with 90,000 square feet of retail space or more. If increasing the minimum wage is good, why is it only good for some?

Although $13.00 an hour is still not a lot to live on, it is a lot to pay out unless that employee is producing enough to justify the pay. My guess would be that even though the work is menial, (loading shelves and greeting people) their profit margins are sufficient to easily accommodate that rate of pay.

I hate Wal-Mart shopping but the few times I have been in the one near me, most of the employees look as if they may expire at the till they are so old. Probably they do it to supplement their pensions/get out of the house.

I have lived on minimum wage and it ain't pretty. Unfortunately, for various reasons some people are unable to "move on" to a livable wage. I don't have a solution to the problem of the working poor other than leaning more toward the "guaranteed income" even though I not usually that far left.

They are just pandering to the unions.

Alot of Union wages are based on the minimum wage. If the minimum wage goes up, so does the unions wage.


Some issues like the minimum wage really shouldn't be dealt with at the local level. While I'd like to see higher wages in areas with higher costs of living a better solution is a national single-payer health insurance program combined with a modest increase in the minimum wage. Walmart, one of the nation's largest employers, provides health insurance for only 43% of it's workers. Take the problem (which they have no interest in solving) out of their hands altogether and they will no longer be the target (pun unintentional) of these kinds of counter-productive measures.

If you force companies to raise their pay, they will in-turn raise their prices.

Most adults should be able to get a job that pays more than min wage.



Although $13.00 an hour is still not a lot to live on, it is a lot to pay out unless that employee is producing enough to justify the pay. My guess would be that even though the work is menial, (loading shelves and greeting people) their profit margins are sufficient to easily accommodate that rate of pay.

I hate Wal-Mart shopping but the few times I have been in the one near me, most of the employees look as if they may expire at the till they are so old. Probably they do it to supplement their pensions/get out of the house.

I have lived on minimum wage and it ain't pretty. Unfortunately, for various reasons some people are unable to "move on" to a livable wage. I don't have a solution to the problem of the working poor other than leaning more toward the "guaranteed income" even though I not usually that far left.

If you force companies to raise their pay, they will in-turn raise their prices.

Most adults should be able to get a job that pays more than min wage.

Companies must still be competitive. They can only price as high as the market will bare. And, looking at the number of working poor, that is untrue.

They are just pandering to the unions.

Alot of Union wages are based on the minimum wage. If the minimum wage goes up, so does the unions wage.Let me guess.

I'll bet you'd be in favor of lowering the minimum wage.

It would create jobs!Most adults should be able to get a job that pays more than min wage.Most can and do.

The problem is some can't and don't.

Care to address the issue instead of mouthing inanities?

It is what it is.

If a person is skilled, or has job experience, he/she should be able to work for more than min wage.

If you raise min wage, it will hurt all consumers. That is a fact.


Companies must still be competitive. They can only price as high as the market will bare. And, looking at the number of working poor, that is untrue.

It is what it is.

If a person is skilled, or has job experience, he/she should be able to work for more than min wage.

If you raise min wage, it will hurt all consumers. That is a fact.

I hear what you are saying but it is not reality for many people. I am Canadian. There is a huge Toyota plant soon to open about 50 kilometres from me. They were originally to have located in the Southern states. The plant did not because of the reading skill level of the local people. Toyota would have had to train with pictorials and they chose not too as the learning curve is too high.

Working poor sometimes means two people in a household working long hours for sometimes less than subsistent living. It does not move the economy. And in the long run raises the crime rate enough, that we "pay out" in a different way. Thing is, then it comes out of YOUR pocket in the form of taxes, not a corporation's.

The real problem is health care and benefits. If workers were willing to accept less of each, companies could pay a decent wage and remain competitive. This is why we so desperatly need a single-payer universal health care system and revamping of benefit programs in this country. Anything less and we're headed for 3rd world status.

what i don't get is that places like wal-mart whine about higher wages. but they do not really have THAT MANY people working for them in any given store. now, how much shit do they sell in any given hour? i doubt the wage increase will effect prices hardly at all. maybe a couple of cents per item? trying to blame higher prices and not being able to run a business on higher wages doesn't wash with me.

around here what i have noticed by talking to business owners, what REALLY drives down business profits, etc. is higher rent, higher prices for property, and higher taxes. not wages.

I love Wal-Mart and shop there every chance I get. I don't love Wal-Mart only because of their low prices although that's a plus. I love Wal-Mart because they hire older workers. They hire people the other companies won't hire and give them meaningful employment and a measure of respect. Yeah, te salaries aren't great but many of these people simply want enough money to supliment what they get from social security and too meager pensions.

I will continue to shop at Wal-Mart as long as they continue hiring older people as associates.

They were originally to have located in the Southern states. The plant did not because of the reading skill level of the local people. Toyota would have had to train with pictorials and they chose not too as the learning curve is too high.

Tawyootah shud uve cum hear. Wee r gud at stuf (lik makin shine n grawing maters n peenuts). :rolleyes:

I guess BMW, Honda, Ford, GM, Nissan, and Mercedes vehicles are easier to manufacture than Toyota's are.

Seems resonable to me...Corporations always like to talk about how much better they are for communities then mom and pop shops yet they never back up said statements. This would be their chance. Also maybe the local government is trying to get more mom and pop shops back downtown and this is how they did it.

Tawyootah shud uve cum hear. Wee r gud at stuf (lik makin shine n grawing maters n peenuts). :rolleyes:

I guess BMW, Honda, Ford, GM, Nissan, and Mercedes vehicles are easier to manufacture than Toyota's are.

Perhaps, if you drive one you make your comment from experience. Look up your facts before you roll your eyes and make such imbecilic comments. From what I remember of you in the past such a statement is below your standard. Far below I might add. When I saw your name I was looking forward to your comment. Now I could roll my eyes but I won't...yet

Oh and hello again from long ago and far away.

You act like Wal-Mart can build a given store for free. They pay zero for the shit that they sell in a given hour.

what i don't get is that places like wal-mart whine about higher wages. but they do not really have THAT MANY people working for them in any given store. now, how much shit do they sell in any given hour? i doubt the wage increase will effect prices hardly at all. maybe a couple of cents per item? trying to blame higher prices and not being able to run a business on higher wages doesn't wash with me.

around here what i have noticed by talking to business owners, what REALLY drives down business profits, etc. is higher rent, higher prices for property, and higher taxes. not wages.

Walmart works on a very small profit margin. They depend on volume for their profits. If they increase wages and benefits they will have to increase prices which will in turn decrease volume thereby decreasing profits. That would probably drive them out of business which would undoubtedly make the Wal-Mart haters very happy. It would also cost all those people their jobs.

I love Wal-Mart and shop there every chance I get. I don't love Wal-Mart only because of their low prices although that's a plus. I love Wal-Mart because they hire older workers. They hire people the other companies won't hire and give them meaningful employment and a measure of respect. Yeah, te salaries aren't great but many of these people simply want enough money to supliment what they get from social security and too meager pensions.

I will continue to shop at Wal-Mart as long as they continue hiring older people as associates.

I beg to differ in the reasoning for hiring "older" staff. They aren't being kind... they are just smart. I hire older staff for the following reasons:
they actually HAVE a work ethic
they don't tire out in 10 minutes
they arrive early and don't leave until the job has been completed
they know how to interact with others (fellow workers and clients)
they actually WANT to be there, so they don't give "attitude"
they willingly give input on how to IMPROVE the work place instead of just bitching about it
they dress appropriately
they don't forget what you have instructed them to do five minutes later
they don't dissolve into tears if you correct them
they know what the word "boundary" means so you can actually have some adult interaction with them on a more personal level
they know that in order to get, one has to learn to give
and there are a hundred more things I could list... OLDER employees ROCK!


Wal-mart just cashes in on that, as do I. I still hate Wal-mart, cause I am nicer to work for!

I agree with all your reasons that Wal-Mart hires older workers. I was discussing it from the worker's perspective, not Wal-Mart's. The older workers want jobs. Wal-Mart wants good workers. Wal-Mart hires older workers. Win win in my book.

I used to know a factory owner (now deceased) who hired only recovering drunks for many of the same reasons. Once he sobered up & became an advocate of AA, he saw rough diamonds all around who only needed a bit of polishing to absolutely shine.

Hey Sal! Just messing with you a bit.

I think you should reconsider your statements on southeastern US automotive manufacturing though. The most significant growth of auto manufacturing has occurred in the southeastern states (btw - Toyota manufactures it's V6 motors in Alabama, and has a manufacturing facility in Kentucky that produces the Camry and Avalon). About 25% of all cars and trucks, and about 50% of all heavy trucks, manufactured in the U.S., are now produced in the south. I myself, ran a manufacturing operation that sold the bulk of it's goods to Toyota. Toyota does make excellent vehicles too :)

The decision to start a plant in a specific location is usually driven by taxes(and breaks on taxes), cost of land/building, labor pool, and logistics of shipping and delivery. This particular plant may very well have been located to your area instead of in the southeast, but I doubt that it was solely based on the lack of reading skills in the area.... more likely it was a financial decision based on taxes/tax breaks/land/building/subsidies/labor costs/etc.


what you probably read: http://atheism.about.com/b/a/184639.htm

Though there are a few valid points in the above article, the bulk of the statements and assumptions are incorrect. Agenda perchance?

something to read: http://www-pam.usc.edu/volume4/v4i1a1print.html

KIA is building a new plant just down the road from where I live. They've been enticed by all the incentives.

Hey Sal! Just messing with you a bit.

You brat!!!!!!!!!!!! :lolhit: I ws all axcited to C that U hed retur ned to the forum since U left befour I did and then you gives me attitude. :p

The point I was attempting to make was that not all people are capable of acquiring a skill that will give them access to a better job which pays more than minimum wage. Many of these people that can not do so are not lazy, they may be illiterate, for various reasons. Some of the people that work with me (retail) have very high IQ but due to life circumstances they can not learn a skill or do the necessary arithmetic that would guarantee them a higher paying job. Large companies capitalize on this.

Some people are of the mistaken notion that minimum wage earners are lazy or stupid. In many cases that is inaccurate. And neither do I believe that paying a fair and livable wage has to necessitate an increase to the consumer. That is an excuse made by companies to generate fear and to keep wages low.

There is a cost to doing business and large companies especially ones such as Wal-Mart are making profits hand over fist. Pass a tiny portion of the profit down. It will flow back into the economy.

Cheers Oldphart... good to see ya.

If the dummies in Detroit were able to build cars anyone can build a car.

what you probably read: http://atheism.about.com/b/a/184639.htm

Though there are a few valid points in the above article, the bulk of the statements and assumptions are incorrect.

Really?

Why don't you describe a few of the statements and assumptions that are supposedly "incorrect"...........??!

http://www.consumeraffairs.com/news04/2006/08/chicago_retailers.html



Getting past the issue of whether the minimum wage needs to be increased, I think the message for politicians is clear. Companies can and will go elsewhere, so you'd better do everything in your power to make your city/county/state/country a good place in which to do business. You may not like it, you may think it's unfair, but that's reality. So instead of higher paying job, you now have no jobs. Instead of commercial development and taxable activity, you have nothing. Duh.

It's not mentioned in this article, but the law applied to retailers with 90,000 square feet of retail space or more. If increasing the minimum wage is good, why is it only good for some?
Two words: Home rule.

It's really sad, isn't it, lionel?

It's really sad, isn't it, lionel?

At least the politicians have saved the poor people from taking jobs that aren't good enough for them. Better that they remain unemployed.

Walmart works on a very small profit margin. They depend on volume for their profits. If they increase wages and benefits they will have to increase prices which will in turn decrease volume thereby decreasing profits. That would probably drive them out of business which would undoubtedly make the Wal-Mart haters very happy. It would also cost all those people their jobs.


horseshit.

almost all retailers buy what you see for a MINIMUM of half the cost you pay for it.

then they always cut deals with local governments for tax incentives to build there. as much of a profit wal-mart makes yearly, they pretty much can build a store for almost free.

horseshit.

almost all retailers buy what you see for a MINIMUM of half the cost you pay for it.

then they always cut deals with local governments for tax incentives to build there. as much of a profit wal-mart makes yearly, they pretty much can build a store for almost free.

Correct they buy in bulk (the more they purchase from the manufacturer) the cheaper they get it. Usually mark up is at least double plus a bit. But having said that'second orders to the manufacturer can result in even BIGGER savings for the retailer because the manufacturer by then will need to dump it.

That is why they were told it was only big box stores of over 90,000 square feet that needed to pay such high minimum wages. It is because they can AFFORD to.

The smaller mum and pop stores can not buy in such vast volume and do not receive the same kind of discount that Wal-Mart does. We are killing our local business person when we do not support them. In the long run the big box stores will have total dominance and guess who will be screwed. Joe Average as usual.

I'm all for a minimum wage increase, but from 5.35 (right?) hourly to 13 hourly is a bit much, eh?


A few weeks ago, I saw an "news" article in a liberal newspaper (The Austin American Statesman) give an excellent example of liberals going to far. The article was about the minimum wage bill going through Congress back then.

In that article, the "reporter" put two statements side-by-side: The amount a full-time minimum wage earner makes monthly and the average cost of a 2-bedroom apartment in the United States. I thought the assertion (that a minimum wage earner should be able to afford to live in an average 2-bedroom apartment) made by the reporter was so ridiculous I almost wrote a letter to the editor.

But this is the problem with liberal politics today: Liberals today are barely-concealed socialists....they support a fantasy-based system which is utterly anti-American and ultimately self-destructive.

P.S. The author of this post is not a Republican.

horseshit.

almost all retailers buy what you see for a MINIMUM of half the cost you pay for it.

then they always cut deals with local governments for tax incentives to build there. as much of a profit wal-mart makes yearly, they pretty much can build a store for almost free.

Ivan, despite your horseshit comment, it is obvious you don't know what you are talking about.

Walmart has a profit margin of about 3.5%. They cut their profit margin very close to the bone in order to keep prices lower.

Yes, their workers don't make all that much but the jobs are attractive enough that ten times the number of applicants usually apply than the number of jobs available.

Walmart's responsibilty is to its customers and its shareholders, not to the liberals who want wages increased. Walmart hires older workers who would otherwise not have jobs. Walmart charges lower prices so that people who cannot afford to go to other stores can still buy what they need.

Try telling a woman shopping at Walmart because the prices are affordable tha those prices will increase rather substantially because the workers want a pay increase of 25%. She will probably hit you with her purse.

Walmart fills a niche. It is an affordable store for people who cannot regularly shop in more expensive stores. In order to keep filling that niche Walmart will do what retail stores have always done, pay lower wages but wages that are still way above the minimum wage.

But this is the problem with liberal politics today: Liberals today are barely-concealed socialists....they support a fantasy-based system which is utterly anti-American and ultimately self-destructive.
Right on.
P.S. The author of this post is not a Republican.
We know. ;)

Walmart's responsibilty is to its customers and its shareholders, not to the liberals who want wages increased..
Yes to it's customers so that can attract business and to it's shareholders who are concerned with nothing but pure profit.


Walmart hires older workers who would otherwise not have jobs. Walmart charges lower prices so that people who cannot afford to go to other stores can still buy what they need.

They hire older workers because it benefits them. And they are not a socialist based company so I highly doubt they give a crap if people can afford to buy what they need or not. They don't give a crap if the people who sew for them over in India work 80 hour weeks. I doubt if they care that Jane American eats or not either, as long as she shops with them.


Try telling a woman shopping at Walmart because the prices are affordable tha those prices will increase rather substantially because the workers want a pay increase of 25%. She will probably hit you with her purse.
Correct. Dateline tried to show her how the people who sew those pants work hard long impossible hours for all most zero pay so that she can save a few cents and her attitude definetly was who the hell cares about them.

Walmart fills a niche.
Yes but what is the cost in the long run?

almost all retailers buy what you see for a MINIMUM of half the cost you pay for it.

It really depends on the item. Electronics have I believe around 50% markup. Jewelry is about 100%. Food is single digits.


as much of a profit wal-mart makes yearly, they pretty much can build a store for almost free.

But if its going to lose money, why would they? Out of the goodness of their heart?

Sal,

Yes, to its customers and shareholders.

The customers are the people who make Walmart possible. Were there no customers there would be no Walmart. Any retail operation that does not pay attention to what brings customers in will cease to exist after a very short time. Low prices are what brings shoppers to Walmart.

Since shareholders are the ones who put up the money of course the company has to see to their welfare. Would you expect people to put money into Walmart if there was no return on their investment?

It doesn't matter why they hire older workers. What matters is the fact that they do. They can hire older workers because management likes the smell of Vick's Vapo Rub for all I care. They hire them and that is the bottom line.

What workers in other countries are paid is the responsibility of those other countries. You can't judge foreign wages by American or Canadian standards. There are countries where the annual wage is unbelievably lower than it is in the U.S. and Canada and lower than in most of the Western world. People make less, things cost less. That's the way it is.

The Walmart jobs ande wages can't be that bad because people in those countries are doing everything possible to get them. Don't judge their salaries by ours.

Walmart will fill its niche as long as it meets the needs and desires of its customers. That long and no longer.

The Walmart jobs ande wages can't be that bad because people in those countries are doing everything possible to get them. Don't judge their salaries by ours.

Walmart will fill its niche as long as it meets the needs and desires of its customers. That long and no longer.

The jobs are bad Frogger, the conditions are horrendous and the hours are almost inhuman. And they will work because the alternative is starvation. At some point we have to say that off shore manufacturing is wrong because our corporations profit from it and the people there are treated pretty much just above slavery. And Walmart is not the only one. Most of the big box stores are doing it. And they want us to be ignorant about it because once we know, we have to do something about it even if it is just to shop locally instead.

It is not only big box stores that purchase goods produced overseas by workers who are paid low wages and work in poor conditions.

I remember watching a program on Mardi Gras beads. Now you would think that is hardly a major world product so why the program about them. The beads are made in Communist China by young girls who leave their families and live in barrack like dormitories. The work twelve hours a day for low wages, are allowed to visit their families for only two weeks a year and have their social lives controlled by the company.

Guess what. They love their jobs and their bosses because the work is so much better than what others in China are able to get.

We shouldn't judge foreign work standards or pay by Western standards. Remember, these are countries where fields are still plowed with oxen, if they have them and by husbands and wives pulling the plow themselves if they don't. These are countries where the average yearly income is measured in hundreds of dollars or less, not tens of thousands of dollars.

Yes, by our standards these are horrid jobs with wretched conditions but by their standards they are the creme de la creme of jobs.

And they will work because the alternative is starvation. .



i always find this thought funny as fuck.

it is impossible to starve to death unless you are in the middle of a snow blown glacier or in the middle of the sahara.

people will work for shit wages BECAUSE they are afraid of starving, or not having a house to live in. the only thing to fear is fear itself.

AND this is why people keep their mouths shut living under a corrupt facist state.

Walmart has a profit margin of about 3.5%. They cut their profit margin very close to the bone in order to keep prices lower.




and just HOW much money did wal-mart make last year?

and just HOW much money did wal-mart make last year?

How much do you think they should be allowed to make?

How much do you think they should be allowed to make?
Slightly less than the workers.