http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=kbEv0T2rwgo

Why would Republicans be offended.

While I am not a fan of Galloway, especially in his support of terrorists, I pretty much agree with what he had to say in this interview. It may not be what we want to hear but Israel has been the aggressor in this war. Israel used the kidnapping of the soldiers as an excuse to invade Lebanon and dismantle Hezbollah. The plan backfired and Hezbollah is, as Galloway said, more popular in the Arab world than ever before. Before the invasion the Sunnis, Druze and Christians in Lebanon despised Hezbollah. Since the invasion this has changed. It has changed even more since the cease fire. Hezbollah has been quick to give money and aid for rebuilding Lebanon while the West has just sat on its collective hands.

Galloway might be a friend to terrorists but in this one interview at least, he was right.

The accusations he has made against Republicans (arming Israel) also apply to Democrats. Republicans won't be offended.

Every side has their buffoons and the ruder and louder they are, the more they will be supported by some. I've heard people shout others down during a debate, but this guy actually shouts down the questions. The left doesn't like Limbaugh and O'Reilly and the right doesn't like Carville and Randi Rhodes. They are total gentlemen (sorry - Gentlepeople) next to this clown.

Hezbollah is not a terrorist organization? Okey doke George.

I don't know what else Israel could have done about the situation.
Every day rockets were sent into Israli cities. The only choice is to stop those who are sending the rockets.


Why would Republicans be offended.

While I am not a fan of Galloway, especially in his support of terrorists, I pretty much agree with what he had to say in this interview. It may not be what we want to hear but Israel has been the aggressor in this war. Israel used the kidnapping of the soldiers as an excuse to invade Lebanon and dismantle Hezbollah. The plan backfired and Hezbollah is, as Galloway said, more popular in the Arab world than ever before. Before the invasion the Sunnis, Druze and Christians in Lebanon despised Hezbollah. Since the invasion this has changed. It has changed even more since the cease fire. Hezbollah has been quick to give money and aid for rebuilding Lebanon while the West has just sat on its collective hands.

Galloway might be a friend to terrorists but in this one interview at least, he was right.

Here's another Galloway video

http://video.google.com/videoplay?docid=-1532509206579317476&q=galloway+milk&hl=en

More of the same....

Sisko,

Whether you like Galloway or not, what he said was the truth.

We arm Israel yet we get pissed when other countries arm people we don't like.

Israel is still occupying part of Lebanon.

Israel did invade Lebanon, not the other way around.

Stating truth does not mean you can't support Israel. It just means you aren't willing to lie or twist facts in order to do so.

Galloway is a moron & what he said was far from the truth.

Galloway is a moron and much of what he says is far from the truth but in this one interview he told the truth as unpalatable as it might be to those of us who support Israel.

Whether you like Galloway or not, what he said was the truth.A lot of what he said is a mixture of facts, opinion and a lot was just wrong.
Hezbollah are not terrorists?
Also a great half truth: When Lebanon got back their cherished sacred land in 2000, what did they do with it? Build hospitals? Orphanages? Schools?
No, they allowed it to become a Hezbollah forward base of operations.

Hezbollah are not terrorists?
Hezbollah are terrorists because of Israels latest terrorism. However the 10 years prior they have been a legitimate resistance organization who didn't ill innocent civilians.
Also a great half truth: When Lebanon got back their cherished sacred land in 2000, what did they do with it? Build hospitals? Orphanages? Schools?
No, they allowed it to become a Hezbollah forward base of operations. Its great when people show off their ignorence...
++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++

Hezbollah also organises an extensive social development programme which runs hospitals, news services, and educational facilities. Its Reconstruction Campaign ('Jihad al-Bina') is responsible for numerous economic and infrastructure development projects in Lebanon

Hezbollah provides many social services in Lebanon.[69][70] According to CNN: "Hezbollah did everything that a government should do, from collecting the garbage to running hospitals and repairing schools."
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Hezbollah#Social_Activities

More cheering from the Hez fan club

Its great when people show off their ignorence...
++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++

Hezbollah also organises an extensive social development programme ....Hezbollah provides many social services in Lebanon.....collecting the garbage to running hospitals and repairing schools."

Guerilla, there's Hezbollah and there's Hezbollah.
When a Hezbollah representative was asked if the militant faction of Hezbollah would disarm, he didn't know.
In other words, there are several different organizations, some with very good, and some with very bad intentions, all calling themselves Hezbollah.
The garbage collectors are probably very nice fellas, but don't be fooled. They have nothing to do with the terrorists.

More cheering from the Hez fan club


I hope you aren't including me in that fan club. I have no use for Hezbollah and would like to see them disappear. That doesn't mean I can deny truth when I see or hear it though.

In this instance Israel's response was out of all proportion to the provocation and I can only believe Israel was looking for an excuse to invade Lebanon. Israel was also far too willing to target civilian sites.

The fact that I support Israel does not mean I will not recognize Israel's errors and shortcomings.

I can only believe Israel was looking for an excuse to invade Lebanon.

On THAT point there is no speculation necessary.

They had been planning to attack Lebanon for over a year.

On THAT point there is no speculation necessary.

They had been planning to attack Lebanon for over a year.

do u have some "hidden email" from Israel saying that, and did u get it from conspiracytheories.com?:lolhit:

The response of Israel to the kidnapping of the two soldiers leads me to believe as Freethinker does. Israel knew that Hezbollah was rearming and getting stronger and building an infrastructure in southern Lebanon. What Israel did not know was just how much rearming Hezbollah had done and just how deeply entrenched they were in the area.

Israel thought this would be another walk in the park where superior Israeli weaponry, combined with the superior training of the IDF would allow them to roll back Hezbollah and perhaps destroy them.

Had there been another Prime Minister this might have happened but Olmert fought the war by half measures. He sent in the IAF to bomb targets, both Hezbollah and civilian. When this tactic didn't work he sent in ground troops but he sent them in tentatively. There was no overwhelming force. Instead there were small groups of soldiers who were ambushed or who were fought to a standstill by a better trained, better armed Hezbollah than expected.

Israel's actions have left Hezbollah more entrenched and more popular than they were before the incursion. If anything good comes of this it will be that Israel realizes that they have been fighting the last war and they now have to change their military and command structure. If they don't Israel is doomed as a nation. The IDF has been revealed as no longer invincible and other nations will no longer be afraid to take them on.

Israel had better do some deep soul searching and revamp its military as quickly as possible.

Perhaps some are relying overmuch on airpower and not doing enough training with mechanized forces. I suspect the command structure in the Israeli military is addressing that presently. It's way to soon to count them out, even if they did stumble a bit in this latest adventure.

The response of Israel to the kidnapping of the two soldiers leads me to believe as Freethinker does. Israel knew that Hezbollah was rearming and getting stronger and building an infrastructure in southern Lebanon. What Israel did not know was just how much rearming Hezbollah had done and just how deeply entrenched they were in the area.

Israel knew fine well, that's why they were waiting for a chance to strike. This is in fact a 1000 times more defendable than say the US attacking Iraq.

Israel thought this would be another walk in the park where superior Israeli weaponry, combined with the superior training of the IDF would allow them to roll back Hezbollah and perhaps destroy them. Wrong again. Israel reiteriterated over and over that it would NOT be a walk in the park.

Israel's actions have left Hezbollah more entrenched and more popular than they were before the incursion. More popular yes, but by any other measure this has been a total failure for Hezbollah. The South is in ruins, they have the Lebanese army + the UN in the south, something they absolutely did not want, and they have used up a great % of their weapons, with their supply routes cut. There are now 2 UN resolutions calling them to disarm. Hez would never have taken those soldiers if they could have known what the outcome would be.

If anything good comes of this it will be that Israel realizes that they have been fighting the last war and they now have to change their military and command structure. If they don't Israel is doomed as a nation. The IDF has been revealed as no longer invincible and other nations will no longer be afraid to take them on. Wrong yet again. Hezbollah was defending their own area from dug in positions using geurilla tactics. Anybody wanting to take on Israel would need a big invading army & Israel would slice them to bits. Other nations will remain afraid to take them on and there is no nation in the ME who could defeat Israel, so your analysis is pure baloney.

Israel had better do some deep soul searching and revamp its military as quickly as possible. What a completely wrong analysis. Israel's military is very capable. The only thing that held them back was a desire not to kill civilians (unlike Uncle Hez) - had Israel wanted to they could have incinerated all of Lebanon without much trouble at all. Beyond having vastly superior weapons, they have about 500,000 troops - they used what maybe 30,000 in this war. I doubt the IDF will make any changes. Politics not the IDF was the issue.

Perhaps you and I were watching different wars, Drew. In the war I saw Israel's IDF didn't do as well as they had expected. In the war I saw Israel had no compunctions about killing civilians. In the war I saw the political bosses lacked the will to really fight. In the war I saw the vaunted Israeli tanks were easily taken out by Hezbollah.

Israel still has the stongest military in the area but it no longer enjoys the overwhelming superiority it once did.

Perhaps you and I were watching different wars, Drew. In the war I saw Israel's IDF didn't do as well as they had expected. In the war I saw Israel had no compunctions about killing civilians. In the war I saw the political bosses lacked the will to really fight. In the war I saw the vaunted Israeli tanks were easily taken out by Hezbollah. Lets be clear - if Israel didn't have 'compuctions' about killing civilians - there would be 10,000 civilians dead, there'd be no Hez rockets left & Hez would be utterly destroyed.

I agree the Political will was not strong enough, but that says nothing about the IDF.

Israel still has the stongest military in the area but it no longer enjoys the overwhelming superiority it once did.Sure it does, tell me one group even close to the IDF. Israel has a massive military supremecy, Hezbollahs loss doesn't change that.

Also a great half truth: When Lebanon got back their cherished sacred land in 2000, what did they do with it? Build hospitals? Orphanages? Schools?
No, they allowed it to become a Hezbollah forward base of operations.
That's EXACTLY right, Brooks!

This asshole also made it a point to bring up the Arab-Israeli war of 1967. Big mistake. Talk about having a decades old conflict. The real war started in 1948 when Egypt, Syria, Lebanon and Iraq attacked Israel because they disagreed with what the British did. Who invaded who there, George? And why was south Lebanon taken after 1967? That's what I thought.

Lets be clear - if Israel didn't have 'compuctions' about killing civilians - there would be 10,000 civilians dead, there'd be no Hez rockets left & Hez would be utterly destroyed.
You can't argue that point, Frogger.

You can't argue that point, Frogger.


Lets be clear - if Israel didn't have 'compuctions' about killing civilians - there would be 10,000 civilians dead, there'd be no Hez rockets left & Hez would be utterly destroyed.

Then I can say Hezbollah doesn't too because the amount of civilians killed by Hezbollah is less than the IDF.

Wow the ignorence on these boards is astounding...

+++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++

Hezbollah also organises extensive social development programs which runs hospitals, news services, and educational facilities. Its Reconstruction Campaign ('Jihad al-Bina') is responsible for numerous economic and infrastructure development projects in Lebanon.[12][70] [71] In March of 2006 an IRIN news report of the UN Office for the Coordination of Humanitarian Affairs noted: "Hezbollah not only has armed and political wings - it also boasts an extensive social development programme. The group currently operates at least four hospitals, 12 clinics, 12 schools and two agricultural centres that provide farmers with technical assistance and training. It also has an environmental department and an extensive social assistance programme. Medical care is also cheaper than in most of the country's private hospitals and free for Hezbollah members."[72]. Also Hezbollah's social service agencies provide health care and schooling for poor farmers. [73]

According to CNN: "Hezbollah did everything that a government should do, from collecting the garbage to running hospitals and repairing schools."[74] In July 2006, during the war with Israel, when there was no running water in Beirut, Hezbollah was arranging supplies around the city. "People here [in South Beirut] see Hezbollah as a political movement and a social service provider as much as it is a militia , in this traditionally poor and dispossessed Shiite community."[74]

Hezbollah also engages in organizing youths in the universities in other activities, such as promoting recycling on campus. [75] The Washington Post reported that Hezbollah had set up a Martyr's Institute, which guarantees to provide for the living and education expenses for the families of fighters who die in battle. [76]

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Hezbollah#Social_services

Then I can say Hezbollah doesn't too because the amount of civilians killed by Hezbollah is less than the IDF.

No you can't - all it means is Hezbollah have crappy weapons. You can be absolutely sure that Hezbollah killed as many civilians as it was physically capable of doing.

Israel did not come even close to killing the amount of civilians it could have - why? because it wasn't trying to kill civilians. Hez was trying to kill as many civilians as possible. That's why Israel is morally right & Hez is morally wrong. It's incredibly simple & it doesn't make any difference what terrorist lovers say or think. ie - people like Googs who are muslim so simply programmed like a robot from birth to hate Israel & defend Hez or people like 500lb / FT who are beatnik wannabees who think wrong thinking is cool & beyond the intellectual capability of morons like us who see it clear as day.

Wow the ignorence on these boards is astounding...

+++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++

Hezbollah also organises extensive social development programs which runs hospitals, news services, and educational facilities. Its Reconstruction Campaign ('Jihad al-Bina') is responsible for numerous economic and infrastructure development projects in Lebanon.[12][70] [71] In March of 2006 an IRIN news report of the UN Office for the Coordination of Humanitarian Affairs noted: "Hezbollah not only has armed and political wings - it also boasts an extensive social development programme. The group currently operates at least four hospitals, 12 clinics, 12 schools and two agricultural centres that provide farmers with technical assistance and training. It also has an environmental department and an extensive social assistance programme. Medical care is also cheaper than in most of the country's private hospitals and free for Hezbollah members."[72]. Also Hezbollah's social service agencies provide health care and schooling for poor farmers. [73]

According to CNN: "Hezbollah did everything that a government should do, from collecting the garbage to running hospitals and repairing schools."[74] In July 2006, during the war with Israel, when there was no running water in Beirut, Hezbollah was arranging supplies around the city. "People here [in South Beirut] see Hezbollah as a political movement and a social service provider as much as it is a militia , in this traditionally poor and dispossessed Shiite community."[74]

Hezbollah also engages in organizing youths in the universities in other activities, such as promoting recycling on campus. [75] The Washington Post reported that Hezbollah had set up a Martyr's Institute, which guarantees to provide for the living and education expenses for the families of fighters who die in battle. [76]

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Hezbollah#Social_services

More defending Hezbollah - it's getting tiresome. So what if they have some social programs, Hitler built great roads - big whoop. If you love Hez so much why don't you go marry Hezbollah. I can guarantee that the Israeli government has done more for it's citizens than Hezbollah has ever done for 'it's citizens' - so I guess that makes Israel far better right?

More defending Hezbollah - it's getting tiresome. So what if they have some social programs, Hitler built great roads - big whoop. If you love Hez so much why don't you go marry Hezbollah. I can guarantee that the Israeli government has done more for it's citizens than Hezbollah has ever done for 'it's citizens' - so I guess that makes Israel far better right?

More like what America has done for Israeli citizens..

More like what America has done for Israeli citizens..
That comment takes balls coming from someone (a Palestinian) who lives in America.

Israel has the only semi-working economy in all of the Middle East. Whether or not you care to realize it, it indicates they actually CARE about their citizens. When it comes to industry and democracy, not only do they PRODUCE goods, they're light years ahead of second place.

That comment takes balls coming from Palestinian who lives in America.

Israel has the only semi-working economy in all of the Middle East. Whether or not you care to realize it, it indicates they actually CARE about their citizens. When it comes to industry and democracy, not only do they PRODUCE goods, they're light years ahead of second place.

It's also a state that has displaced hundreds of thousands of people.

George Gallaway is a typical propagandist for Muslim desire to exterminate Israel.

Israel troops were surprised by modern anti-tank weapons from all over the world including the USA. With these weapons Hezbollah can knock out tanks from a distance with little danger to themselves.

Also Israel was surprised that the missiles being fired at Israel were so well protected that air power could not stop them. So it was left up to Israeli ground troops to fight man to man to stop the missiles but Israel had a problem supplying the man on the ground because of modern anti-helicopter missiles. Hezbollah lived and worked in safe caves with plenty of supplies and didn't need airpower. Also Olmert didn't make an effort to let the ground troops stop the missiles until a day before the peace treaty was to go into effect.

Israel is fighting for its life while Hezbollah is fighting for the destruction of Israel and will always have an excuse to attack.

It's also a state that has displaced hundreds of thousands of people.
I never said they were perfect, but in a large way, that's not their fault.

George Gallaway is a typical propagandist for Muslim desire to exterminate Israel.


Incredible.

That one statement is so chock full of lies it's hard to sort them all out.

George Gallaway is not in any way "typical". If he were a typical politician, he would join Bush and Blair and a thousand other pols of their ilk as they turn a blind eye to the genocide Israel is carrying out against the Lebanese.

George Gallaway is not a propagandist. If you want to maintain that he is, take some statement by him and try to refute it, old-reb. Gallaway has spoken more truth on this matter than possibly any other politician.

The most damnable and demonstrable lie is the suggestion that Gallaway --or ANYONE in the political realm in the US or Britian-- is motivated by some desire to aid Muslim extremists so that they will "exterminate Israel".

I don't think that ANYONE in the West wants to see Israel or its people suffer further harm. Conversely, I think the case CAN be made that there ARE many people in the US and the UK --in political circles-- who are quite content to see Israel continue to be unhindered in terrorizing the Lebanese and Palestinian people.

Wow the ignorence on these boards is astounding...

+++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++

Hezbollah also organises extensive social development programs which runs hospitals, news services, and educational facilities. Its Reconstruction Campaign ('Jihad al-Bina') is responsible for numerous economic and infrastructure development projects in Lebanon.[12][70] [71] In March of 2006 an IRIN news report of the UN Office for the Coordination of Humanitarian Affairs noted: "Hezbollah not only has armed and political wings - it also boasts an extensive social development programme. The group currently operates at least four hospitals, 12 clinics, 12 schools and two agricultural centres that provide farmers with technical assistance and training. It also has an environmental department and an extensive social assistance programme. Medical care is also cheaper than in most of the country's private hospitals and free for Hezbollah members."[72]. Also Hezbollah's social service agencies provide health care and schooling for poor farmers. [73]

According to CNN: "Hezbollah did everything that a government should do, from collecting the garbage to running hospitals and repairing schools."[74] In July 2006, during the war with Israel, when there was no running water in Beirut, Hezbollah was arranging supplies around the city. "People here [in South Beirut] see Hezbollah as a political movement and a social service provider as much as it is a militia , in this traditionally poor and dispossessed Shiite community."[74]

Hezbollah also engages in organizing youths in the universities in other activities, such as promoting recycling on campus. [75] The Washington Post reported that Hezbollah had set up a Martyr's Institute, which guarantees to provide for the living and education expenses for the families of fighters who die in battle. [76]

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Hezbollah#Social_services

Hezbollah has done all of this and more. And they will rebuild Lebanon if they can.
WHY?
To worm their way into the fabric of the system so that they have the control of the media, the control of the politicians, the control of the minds of the people.
WHY?
Power with a mind towards the destruction of Isreal and every one else they label infidel.

Hezbollah has done all of this and more. And they will rebuild Lebanon if they can.
WHY?
To worm their way into the fabric of the system so that they have the control of the media, the control of the politicians, the control of the minds of the people.

IOW, they're doing the same thing the leadership in Israel and America does........right?

(Well, except that Hezbollah is no doubt far more willing and far more dedicated to working hard on things like collecting the garbage, running the hospitals, repairing the schools, organizing youths in the universities to promoting recycling and providing social services than the uber-Conservatives in America are)

WHY?
Power with a mind towards the destruction of Isreal and every one else they label infidel.

Yes, Hezbollah DOES want to destroy Israel. But that is because they realize that Israel is bent on waging war against and attacking and killing many Muslims in the nations surrounding Israel.

I would imagine that Hezbollah sees itself as acting in pure self-defense............wouldn't you?

Hezbollah was CREATED for no other reason than to counteract Israel's aggression. You DO know that, don't you?

Remember, Israel has sent 100 times as many missiles and bombs into Lebanon as vise versa.

Yes....Hezbollah is guilty of murderous aggression.....but it is aggression that is carried out in response to the murdeous aggression that has been and continues to be aimed at them. Please try to grasp that one point.

More defending Hezbollah - it's getting tiresome. So what if they have some social programs, Hitler built great roads - big whoop. If you love Hez so much why don't you go marry Hezbollah. I can guarantee that the Israeli government has done more for it's citizens than Hezbollah has ever done for 'it's citizens' - so I guess that makes Israel far better right?

Don't you mean for its Jewish citizens, Drew. Israel hasn't really done anything for its Christian, Druze and Moslem citizens. The main thing it has done for its Moslem citizens is cut down their olive groves, refuse to give them building permits, not given then adequate electricity and water and insult them in myriad little ways.

I believe Israel has a right to exist but this total whitewashing of Israel is ridiculous. Israel may be better than its neighbors but by western, democratic standards Israel falls far short of what should be expected of her.

I believe Israel has a right to exist but this total whitewashing of Israel is ridiculous. Israel may be better than its neighbors but by western, democratic standards Israel falls far short of what should be expected of her.

When you live in a country the size of NJ surrounded by Islamic nations that want you eradicated, filled with terrorists ready to blow themselves up in your cities - maybe then you wouldn't be so dismissive of Israel's position.

Israel represents democratic, civilized society. Hezbollah represents suicide bombs and Islamic radicalism. Make your choice - I find the choice incredibly easy.

When you live in a country the size of NJ surrounded by Islamic nations that want you eradicated, filled with terrorists ready to blow themselves up in your cities - maybe then you wouldn't be so dismissive of Israel's position.

Israel represents democratic, civilized society. Hezbollah represents suicide bombs and Islamic radicalism. Make your choice - I find the choice incredibly easy.

That sums up Israels situation.

When you live in a bad neighborhood, you get tough or die.

Anything Israel does is the result of being under constant attack in war and in world propaganda.

The Racist Muslims in the UN had Israel labeled as a racist country when their neighbors are so racist that they kill any Jew they can to exterminate them. That is more than racism, it is constant attempted genocide.

The Racist Muslims in the UN had Israel labeled as a racist country when their neighbors are so racist that they kill any Jew they can to exterminate them. That is more than racism, it is constant attempted genocide.

Around tweny thousand Jews live in Iran. I don't see attempted genoicide over there.

Around tweny thousand Jews live in Iran. I don't see attempted genoicide over there.

Wow - you are just chocka full of irrelevant points.

Around tweny thousand Jews live in Iran. I don't see attempted genoicide over there.

A 60-year-old Jewish man was hanged in Iran last week, presumably for his assistance to Jews fleeing Iran, Yediot Aharonot reported on June 8, 1998. The man, from the Kathodzada family, was a member of Teheran's Jewish community and was known for assisting Jews in distress.

The man disappeared last month, and his family was notified of his execution by Iranian government officials last week. The authorities failed to give any explanation for the execution.

At least 13 Jews have been executed in Iran since the Islamic revolution 19 years ago, most of them for either religious reasons or their connection to Israel.

Wow - you are just chocka full of irrelevant points.Why do you say it was irrelevant? It was a direct refutation of old-reb's claim that Israel's "neighbors are so racist that they kill any Jew they can to exterminate them." Obviously Iran has not exterminated their own Jews, so old-reb's claim is false.

Yes, Hezbollah DOES want to destroy Israel. But that is because they realize that Israel is bent on waging war against and attacking and killing many Muslims in the nations surrounding Israel..

Which Muslim nations is Israel bent on killing and in which surrounding countries?

I would imagine that Hezbollah sees itself as acting in pure self-defense............wouldn't you?

It may well wish the world to see that they are acting in pureself defense. I do not believe that it is purely self defense at all. Are they 100% in the wrong. No. But neither are they acting purely.

Hezbollah was CREATED for no other reason than to counteract Israel's aggression. You DO know that, don't you?
Yes I am aware of that...but that was before this is now.

Remember, Israel has sent 100 times as many missiles and bombs into Lebanon as vise versa.
Yes.

Yes....Hezbollah is guilty of murderous aggression.....but it is aggression that is carried out in response to the murdeous aggression that has been and continues to be aimed at them. Please try to grasp that one point.
So where does it end? Who lays down their arms first? I find it hard to side with a group of people that would have me wear a hijab, take away my freedom because of my sex, rape me at will and treat me as chattle. They may well have SOME justification but God help us all if they were running the world. Sorry Freethinker, but they scare the hell out of me. And the thought that they will grow and prosper makes my blood run cold. So I won't be defending them anytime soon.

Incredible.

That one statement is so chock full of lies it's hard to sort them all out.

George Gallaway is not in any way "typical". If he were a typical politician, he would join Bush and Blair and a thousand other pols of their ilk as they turn a blind eye to the genocide Israel is carrying out against the Lebanese.

George Gallaway is not a propagandist. If you want to maintain that he is, take some statement by him and try to refute it, old-reb. Gallaway has spoken more truth on this matter than possibly any other politician.

The most damnable and demonstrable lie is the suggestion that Gallaway --or ANYONE in the political realm in the US or Britian-- is motivated by some desire to aid Muslim extremists so that they will "exterminate Israel".

I don't think that ANYONE in the West wants to see Israel or its people suffer further harm. Conversely, I think the case CAN be made that there ARE many people in the US and the UK --in political circles-- who are quite content to see Israel continue to be unhindered in terrorizing the Lebanese and Palestinian people.

Did you see Galloway screaming at the news anchor woman, the guy is like an out of control Nazi.

He wants Israel to go back to its 1967 borders. That is code for shrink yourself so we can more easily kill you.

He said the conflict didn't start with the kidnapping of the Israeli troops, it began 20 years before that. Well, it started when Mohammand walked the earth and called for the killing of the Jews and Muslims have done a fine job so far.

Which Muslim nations is Israel bent on killing and in which surrounding countries?

Nothing was said about them killing *a nation*........but to answer your question, people the Israelis are bent on killing would be Palestinians and Lebanese.

In the countries of Palestine and Lebanon.

Hezbollah was CREATED for no other reason than to counteract Israel's aggression. You DO know that, don't you?

Yes I am aware of that...but that was before this is now.

Your --"that was then this is now" is meaningless to me.

What has happened before is determining what IS happening now


So where does it end? Who lays down their arms first?

The Muslim people that Israel is targeting will lay down their arms first.

They will 'lay them down' because Israel will kill them all and the arms will fall from their dead fingers.

I find it hard to side with a group of people that would have me wear a hijab, take away my freedom because of my sex, rape me at will and treat me as chattle.

Me too.

But then, no one has suggested that I side with them.

It is not "siding with them" to simply wish that a situation could be brought about in which the Zionist protagonists will stop killing them.

They may well have SOME justification but God help us all if they were running the world.

I agree completely. It is terrifying to contemplate ANY group of religious fanatics being in control of society. Here OR there.

Sorry Freethinker, but they scare the hell out of me. And the thought that they will grow and prosper makes my blood run cold. So I won't be defending them anytime soon.

I do not say what I say to *defend* them or their actions, but to point out where Israel too has been guilty of aggression........far more brutal aggression, many would say.

I find it hard to side with a group of people that would have me wear a hijab, take away my freedom because of my sex, rape me at will and treat me as chattle. They may well have SOME justification but God help us all if they were running the world. Sorry Freethinker, but they scare the hell out of me. And the thought that they will grow and prosper makes my blood run cold. So I won't be defending them anytime soon.

When you don't know anything about a religon it is expected for you to be scared. But everything you have stated is wrong. Plain and simple. Tell me where you get sources. i hope not from Prae and Old-reb. ;)

When you don't know anything about a religon it is expected for you to be scared. But everything you have stated is wrong. Plain and simple. Tell me where you get sources. i hope not from Prae and Old-reb. ;)

Googs - just out of interest do you believe women are 100% equal to men?

The Muslim people that Israel is targeting will lay down their arms first.

They will 'lay them down' because Israel will kill them all and the arms will fall from their dead fingers.


Yes Freethinker that is EXACTLY what may happen. But why is that? I say it is because Hezbollah has wrought it upon their own people.

Israel has an agenda. They want that small space of land all to themselves. Unfortunately they can't have it. But genocide is not on their agenda. And therein lays the difference for me.

Hezbollah have no uniforms. Hide their faces and keep their asses safe behind the civilian population. THAT is why so many Lebanese have died. I don't care what their agenda was 20 years ago. They have a new one now and it is to wipe Israel off the face of the earth. And then they will come for us because Allah says so.

See I would like to see them blown off the face of the earth first. Crass yes but honestly I like my freedom and my life style. And they threaten that. Say it is a play upon my emotions and I would agree with you. But frankly if they want me dead because I am a blue eyed, blonde female Infidel that won't be in a berka anytime soon, well frankly the faster they are gone, the happier I am.

Honestly I feel terrible for the innocents that have died. There are babies with limbs blown off etc. It is terrible beyond belief. But I will never support the terrorist view and any innocent that does not stand against them is standing for them in my mind.


I do not say what I say to *defend* them or their actions, but to point out where Israel too has been guilty of aggression........far more brutal aggression, many would say.

I know you do not support their philosophy or their actions but it does sometime sound that way when you present. Because you are an idealist (and I admire your ideals) and soemtimes you are funnier than hell because of your dry humour but I think you sometimes forget that somethings are "more wrong" than others. If Israel could have their land they would be content. Hezbollah will never be content, they are a restless, faceless violent force.

I do not white-wash Isreal, as you do not white-wash Hezbollah but still we have a different outlook. Perhaps yours is the higher ground since it is not fear based. But I don't see my fear disappearing anytime soon.

When you don't know anything about a religon it is expected for you to be scared. But everything you have stated is wrong. Plain and simple. Tell me where you get sources. i hope not from Prae and Old-reb. ;)

Googs I agree that when you don't know anything about a religion or a people, or an ideal, fear can be a normal reaction. Ignorance can and does lead to fear. But I am not entirely ignorant of Islam or the Koran. And "everything" I have stated is not wrong. One of my girlfriends got off the plane and hit the ground and kissed it when she arrived in Canada. She threw off her hijab and has not looked back. Don't even ask about what her family thinks of that. And damn but her brother being male pulls the purse strings. Unfortunately for her misogynistic brothers she can support herself. For many years they feared for her soul. She just feared for her life.

Show me where I am wrong.

Israel may be better than its neighbors but by western, democratic standards Israel falls far short of what should be expected of her.Israel should only be a little better than its neighbors. If Israel lived by western standards, it would be gone by now.
In 1967, for instance, Israel acted "pre-emptively" when they were about to be attacked. We would have sat back and allowed the Freethinkers, Bidens, Moores and Deans to slow us down until we were overrun.
If Israel doesn't live up to our standards it's because they can't afford to.

One of my girlfriends got off the plane and hit the ground and kissed it when she arrived in Canada. She threw off her hijab and has not looked back. Don't even ask about what her family thinks of that. And damn but her brother being male pulls the purse strings. Unfortunately for her misogynistic brothers she can support herself. For many years they feared for her soul. She just feared for her life.



That was a touching story. Could I ask what country she came from?

I guess she didn't feel freer with a hijab on as is often stated by Muslims.

Yes Freethinker that is EXACTLY what may happen. But why is that? I say it is because Hezbollah has wrought it upon their own people.

When you come to understand that Hezbollah came to exist because of an act of aggression on the part of Israel, THEN you may know why the state of affairs in the Middle East is what it is.

Israel has an agenda. They want that small space of land all to themselves. Unfortunately they can't have it................. If Israel could have their land they would be content.

"Can't have it"...........? What do you mean?!

They do HAVE it.

Israel was GIVEN their **small space of land** nearly 60 years ago.

But Israel has since then incessantly and greedily sought to steal and to occupy OTHER land, land that did not belong to it. Israel has appropriated land that was not theirs to take, and they have --in a cold and brutal manner-- been systematically rooting out the people who live on that land.

And that, ~Sal~, is the absolute bottom line, the first cause, the root and the foundation of ALL the conflict in the Middle East.

....But Israel has since then incessantly and greedily sought to steal and to occupy OTHER land, land that did not belong to it. Israel has appropriated land that was not theirs to take, and they have --in a cold and brutal manner-- been systematically rooting out the people who live on that land.

And that, ~Sal~, is the absolute bottom line, the first cause, the root and the foundation of ALL the conflict in the Middle East.

That's why they gave gaza back to the palestinians isn't it.:thumbs:

That's why barak offered them 95% of the west bank but arafat said uh uh.

Remind us again who started the war in '48, madagascar wasn't it?

It's one thing to have an opinion but an opinion based so completely on a contradiction of the facts is astounding.

When you don't know anything about a religon it is expected for you to be scared. But everything you have stated is wrong. Plain and simple. Tell me where you get sources. i hope not from Prae and Old-reb. ;)

We had one of your co-religionists on here awhile back. He was telling us slavery among other quaint, medieval notions was a-ok. He was full of 'wonderful' ideas about islam. Guys like that and hez and aq and......pimping for you islam is getting all the attention it wants and more. It just isn't positive attention.

That's why they gave gaza back to the palestinians isn't it.:thumbs:

Had they not stolen it in the first place, it would not have been necessary to make them "give it back".

That's why barak offered them 95% of the west bank but arafat said uh uh.

There were other conditions within the proposal that poisoned the well and made certain that Arafat would have no choice but to reject it. It has been written about ad infinitum.

But a person with your limited understanding of the Middle East cannot be expected to grasp something that complex.

In addition to that, Waldo, you can't forget the only land Israel appropriated was after it was attacked in the first place. Golan Heights is a perfect example. It's essential to their water supply (which has been tampered with on several occasions), and it's been a place of constant enemy aggression, which hardly makes it any different than any other territory they've been FORCED to acquire subsequently.

FT, you always seem to point the finger at Israel because of something THEY did first. Well, enlighten me - who attacked who in '48? You know, the very FIRST offensive. If these people were pissed at the British, then why didn't they attack them? Even if attacking the Brits meant going on a suicide mission (which is something they really don't seem to be bothered by anyway), at least they'd be attacking the right people. I MIGHT be able to respect them for that, but as it stands currently, I think they're nothing more than a bunch of barbaric cockroaches.

Had they not stolen it in the first place, it would not have been necessary to make them "give it back".
Bullshit.

But Israel has since then incessantly and greedily sought to steal and to occupy OTHER land, land that did not belong to it. Israel has appropriated land that was not theirs to take, and they have --in a cold and brutal manner-- been systematically rooting out the people who live on that land.

Herein lies the root of your extremely flawed view of the issue.:rolleyes:

Israel aquired additional land because other Arab countries massed up, joined together to try & wipe out Israel. Guess what? - Israel thrashed them and ended up with more land, most of which they have given back, but by rights - Israel won that land in wars, wars where they were NOT the aggressor. They had no obligation to give ANY of it back. You start a war, you take your risks.

Exactly.

Googs I agree that when you don't know anything about a religion or a people, or an ideal, fear can be a normal reaction. Ignorance can and does lead to fear. But I am not entirely ignorant of Islam or the Koran. And "everything" I have stated is not wrong. One of my girlfriends got off the plane and hit the ground and kissed it when she arrived in Canada. She threw off her hijab and has not looked back. Don't even ask about what her family thinks of that. And damn but her brother being male pulls the purse strings. Unfortunately for her misogynistic brothers she can support herself. For many years they feared for her soul. She just feared for her life.

Show me where I am wrong.


Keyword in there is brothers.

We had one of your co-religionists on here awhile back. He was telling us slavery among other quaint, medieval notions was a-ok. He was full of 'wonderful' ideas about islam. Guys like that and hez and aq and......pimping for you islam is getting all the attention it wants and more. It just isn't positive attention.

Slavery is not ok in islam. Islam recognized it as a social system and set restrictions on it, which eventually led to its abolishment. :thumbs:

Googs - just out of interest do you believe women are 100% equal to men?

In some aspects of life Women have more rights than men, and vice versa. When it comes to work, voting, education, and driving they are 100% equal. However, you don't see this kind of stuff in what you guys now call Islam. This is acutally pre-Islamic. I've said this many times, Muslim women had rights before women in the West.

"It is not the tone of Islam that brands woman as the product of the devil or the seed of evil. Nor does the Qur'an place man as the dominant lord of woman who has no choice but to surrender to his dominance. Nor was it Islam that introduced the question of whether or not woman has any soul in her. Never in the history of Islam has any Muslim doubted the human status of woman or her possession of soul and other fine spiritual qualities. Unlike other popular beliefs, Islam does not blame Eve alone for the Original Sin. The Qur'an makes it very clear that both Adam and Eve were tempted; that they both sinned; that Allah's pardon was granted to both after their repentance; and that Allah addressed them jointly. Allah Almighty says:

(And We said: O Adam! Dwell thou and thy wife in the Garden, and eat ye freely (of the fruits) thereof where ye will; but come not nigh this tree lest ye become wrongdoers. But Satan caused them to deflect therefrom and expelled them from the (happy) state in which they were; and We said: Fall down, one of you a foe unto the other! There shall be for you on earth a habitation and provision for a tune. Then Adam received from his Lord words (of revelation), and He relented toward him. Lo! He is the Relenting the Merciful. We said: Go down, all of you, from hence; but verily there cometh unto you from Me a guidance; and whoso followeth My guidance, there shall no fear come upon them neither shall they grieve.) (Al-Baqarah 2: 36-38)

In fact the Qur'an gives the impression that Adam was more to blame for that First Sin from which emerged prejudice against woman and suspicion of her deeds. But Islam does not justify such prejudice or suspicion because both Adam and Eve were equally in error, and if we are to blame Eve we should blame Adam as much or even more."

http://www.islamonline.net/servlet/Satellite?pagename=IslamOnline-English-Ask_Scholar/FatwaE/FatwaE&cid=1119503544308

A woman can be a doctor, teacher, principal of a school, lawyer, scholar, mufti, judge, ambassador, administrator, head of a company etc. She can be an Imam of the prayers also if the congregation is of women only.

That was a touching story. Could I ask what country she came from?

I guess she didn't feel freer with a hijab on as is often stated by Muslims.

Hi old reb. She is from Libya. No she wasn't ever keen on the hijab nor on Kadafi. I am not sure of the status of women there during the monarchy and before the coup but she is well educated so I presume it was more tolerant at one time.

googs you are side stepping Drew's question. He did not ask about the Koran, nor about Adam and Eve he asked if you believe women to be equal to men.

What rights do women have that men do not?

You say women can be an Imam but is it not so that a woman may not "teach" a man and that they are separated for prayer?

googs you are side stepping Drew's question. He did not ask about the Koran, nor about Adam and Eve he asked if you believe women to be equal to men.



Googs life is dictated by the Koran. If he wants to know how to treat women, he doesn't talk the the gang under the tree or think up something in his head, he just looks in the Koran and God has spelled out how to live the good life and what his relationship to women will be.

In some aspects of life Women have more rights than men, and vice versa. When it comes to work, voting, education, and driving they are 100% equal. However, you don't see this kind of stuff in what you guys now call Islam. This is acutally pre-Islamic. I've said this many times, Muslim women had rights before women in the West.

"It is not the tone of Islam that brands woman as the product of the devil or the seed of evil. Nor does the Qur'an place man as the dominant lord of woman who has no choice but to surrender to his dominance. Nor was it Islam that introduced the question of whether or not woman has any soul in her. Never in the history of Islam has any Muslim doubted the human status of woman or her possession of soul and other fine spiritual qualities. Unlike other popular beliefs, Islam does not blame Eve alone for the Original Sin. The Qur'an makes it very clear that both Adam and Eve were tempted; that they both sinned; that Allah's pardon was granted to both after their repentance; and that Allah addressed them jointly. Allah Almighty says:

(And We said: O Adam! Dwell thou and thy wife in the Garden, and eat ye freely (of the fruits) thereof where ye will; but come not nigh this tree lest ye become wrongdoers. But Satan caused them to deflect therefrom and expelled them from the (happy) state in which they were; and We said: Fall down, one of you a foe unto the other! There shall be for you on earth a habitation and provision for a tune. Then Adam received from his Lord words (of revelation), and He relented toward him. Lo! He is the Relenting the Merciful. We said: Go down, all of you, from hence; but verily there cometh unto you from Me a guidance; and whoso followeth My guidance, there shall no fear come upon them neither shall they grieve.) (Al-Baqarah 2: 36-38)

In fact the Qur'an gives the impression that Adam was more to blame for that First Sin from which emerged prejudice against woman and suspicion of her deeds. But Islam does not justify such prejudice or suspicion because both Adam and Eve were equally in error, and if we are to blame Eve we should blame Adam as much or even more."

http://www.islamonline.net/servlet/Satellite?pagename=IslamOnline-English-Ask_Scholar/FatwaE/FatwaE&cid=1119503544308

A woman can be a doctor, teacher, principal of a school, lawyer, scholar, mufti, judge, ambassador, administrator, head of a company etc. She can be an Imam of the prayers also if the congregation is of women only.

Thats a long post that doesn't really address my question. I didn't ask you about rights either - All I am looking for is a one word answer - Yes or No - are women equal to men.

Slavery is not ok in islam. Islam recognized it as a social system and set restrictions on it, which eventually led to its abolishment. :thumbs:
Like they set a "restriction" on the number of dead Americans at 10,000,000, right?

I don't know if you're aware of this, but not too long ago, a top Muslim cleric in Saudi Arabia gave religious permission to use weapons of mass destruction on American cities. He said killing 10,000,000 Americans would be "permissible" under Islam. Any more than that, and I guess the killers would no longer be in good standing with your fucked up god.

The problem with Islam is probably not the religion itself, the problem lies in that of all the main religions - Islam contains a far greater % of uneducated, poor & easily controlled people. This then allows radicals to have a greater voice.

Islam also contains a lot of Arab people & over history Arabs have faced defeat after defeat after defeat, so they have an inbred failure complex & desire to win. This tied with the lack of education makes fertile ground for such statements as kill 10,000,000 americams - but I doubt Islam itself would support such a statement.

The problem with Islam is probably not the religion itself, the problem lies in that of all the main religions - Islam contains a far greater % of uneducated, poor & easily controlled people. This then allows radicals to have a greater voice.

Islam also contains a lot of Arab people & over history Arabs have faced defeat after defeat after defeat, so they have an inbred failure complex & desire to win. This tied with the lack of education makes fertile ground for such statements as kill 10,000,000 americams - but I doubt Islam itself would support such a statement.

I'm happy that someone on this board can actually comprehend the fact that it isn't Islam but some the people that follow it that have hijacked the religon. It would be nice if people on this board would direct that instead on the religon.

I'm happy that someone on this board can actually comprehend the fact that it isn't Islam but some the people that follow it that have hijacked the religon. It would be nice if people on this board would direct that instead on the religon.

Yep, now answer the question about are women equal to men.

Yep, now answer the question about are women equal to men.

Yes...:rolleyes:

Yep, now answer the question about are women equal to men.

Googs says yes.

I say yes.

The Koran says no.

The Pentateuch says --resoundingly-- no.

The Bible says no.

I'm happy that someone on this board can actually comprehend the fact that it isn't Islam but some the people that follow it that have hijacked the religon. It would be nice if people on this board would direct that instead on the religon.

Many of us have acknowledged this in the past. We've seen it plenty of times with knucklehead "preachers" of various bible-toting faiths here.

Yes...:rolleyes:

Ok good. Is that your American head speaking or your Palestinian head speaking? Hopefully, it is both.

Ok good. Is that your American head speaking or your Palestinian head speaking? Hopefully, it is both.

You guys are so funny. Who would of though that calling myself Palestinian American would cause such a debate. Anyhoo, in regards of you question, it's both.

Anyhoo, in regards of you question, it's both.
Unless that dirty baby factory steps out of line, of course, and then it's all about introducing her to the business end of your hand, right?

Just out of curiosity, Googs, does your mother sit in the back of the car when you guys drive to the mosque, or does she have to walk?

Just out of curiosity, Googs, does your mother sit in the back of the car when you guys drive to the mosque, or does she have to walk?

None, my mom doesn't go to the mosque unless it's Eid. Nice try though :thumbs:

The problem with Islam is probably not the religion itself, the problem lies in that of all the main religions - Islam contains a far greater % of uneducated, poor & easily controlled people. This then allows radicals to have a greater voice.

Islam also contains a lot of Arab people & over history Arabs have faced defeat after defeat after defeat, so they have an inbred failure complex & desire to win. This tied with the lack of education makes fertile ground for such statements as kill 10,000,000 americams - but I doubt Islam itself would support such a statement. gee thats funny the Busheviks have been manipulating the uneducated and radical Christians here in the US to unleash wave upon wave of mass murder upon the Middle East.

Oh I forgot, you endorse governmental mass murder, you just don't like those free lancers...

gee thats funny the Busheviks have been manipulating the uneducated and radical Christians here in the US to unleash wave upon wave of mass murder upon the Middle East.

Oh I forgot, you endorse governmental mass murder, you just don't like those free lancers...

Yeah right, wave after wave of mass murder.

You must hate yourself pretty bad then I expect.

You are a joke, plain & simple.

Please do show how Afghanistan, Iraq and Lebanon were not waves of mass murder...

Of course as usual you like to call people names but when pressed for any refutation at all, you remain absolutly silent...

BTW you post is a perfect example of you defending state terrorism. You belittle me for even calling it what it is...mass murder.

The names I've called you are mild in comparison to some of the names you have called people...

By your standards - WW2 was a wave of mass murder also. That's the only answer your post deserves.

gee thats funny the Busheviks have been manipulating the uneducated and radical Christians here in the US...Whenever your fellow travellers on these threads talk about the neocons who really run this country, they generally name Jews.
Maybe you should be having this debate with Dop.