Circumcision may be the answer to Aids, says Clinton

Sarah Boseley in Toronto
Wednesday August 16, 2006
The Guardian

Bill Clinton called for the world to prepare to tackle the cultural taboos surrounding circumcision yesterday if, as many expect, trials show that it protects men and the women they sleep with from Aids.

In a speech to the International Aids conference in Toronto, Canada, Mr Clinton said that if the trials had good results, there would be a major job of persuasion ahead. "Should this be shown to be effective, we will have another means to prevent the spread of the disease and to save lives, and we will have a big job to do," he said. "It is important that as we leave here we all be prepared for a green light that could have a staggering impact on the male population but that will be frankly a lot of trouble to get done."

The problems would be most obvious in India where Muslims are circumcised but Hindus are not, and the difference is associated with religious identity. During sectarian violence, men have been known to pull down each other's trousers as a means of identifying friend from enemy.

In Africa studies have shown that men are willing to be circumcised if it can be shown to be protective against HIV.

There is excitement about the potential for circumcision in preventing Aids. Last year researchers from South Africa and France announced that in a trial of 3,274 men from near Johannesburg randomly chosen either to be circumcised or not, those who underwent the procedure had a 60% lower risk of acquiring HIV afterwards than those who did not.

Three further studies are under way in Kenya and Uganda, according to a report published yesterday at the conference by the Global HIV Prevention Working Group. They are looking at different age groups of men and ways of carrying out the circumcision operation. One of the trials is following 7,000 women in Uganda to see whether they are less likely to get HIV if their partners have been circumcised. The results are expected next year.

The potential for preventing HIV through circumcision was one of the interventions spoken of with most hope in Toronto this week. Mr Clinton also backed opt-out schemes for HIV testing, such as that being introduced in Lesotho. "If it is done right, Lesotho's infection will plummet and more people will live," he said.

He understood the fear of discrimination, which existed when a friend of his died of Aids in the 1980s, "but there is a different equation today".

Some human rights groups are anxious that pressure could be exerted on people to be tested without help and treatment being available. The knowledge to stop the pandemic exists, Mr Clinton said, and must be used.

More than 15 million children in sub-Saharan Africa will have lost one or both parents to Aids by 2010, according to the UN which says the world has failed youngsters. At the launch of a report entitled Children Affected by Aids in Toronto, Michel Sidibe of UNAids said children were "the missing face" of the pandemic.

http://www.guardian.co.uk/aids/story/0,,1851224,00.html

Circumcision may be the answer to Aids, says Clinton
I seriously doubt it, how can it be possible to stop AIDS when having sexual intercourse with someone who has AIDS? Even when using condoms, I still doubt that a condom is in any way any percentage of protection, "porosity". Now, by just being circumcised???? I haven't read anything on this "new" way to prevent being infected, but certainly a have huge doubts about it.

Is this a JOKE?

While male circumcision may not prevent a man from contracting HIV/AIDS there is some evidence that it might lessen the chances. Maybe that is one of the reasons HIV/AIDS is not as prevelant in northern Africa and the Middle East where both Moslems and Jews are circumcised.

While male circumcision may not prevent a man from contracting HIV/AIDS there is some evidence that it might lessen the chances. Maybe that is one of the reasons HIV/AIDS is not as prevalent in northern Africa and the Middle East where both Moslems and Jews are circumcised.
Might lessen, sounds to me like a Russian Roulette ... Nothing against what you say Frogger, but being this a situation of life or death, it is just a matter too serious to leave it to chances. Betting on the chances that I "might come out OK on this one if I am circumcised", just isn't right.
And making it public so those kids (male and female) who just want to find an excuse to go on a wild sex hunt only to find that their lives might be shortened to 7 or 8 more years is crazy.

Cromagnon,

I don't think anyone is saying get circumcized and don't worry about safe sex anymore. At least I hope that's not what they are saying.

While I was Googling circumcision/HIV/AIDS I came across an interesting piece of information. It seems southern African like to dry fu*k. The men prefer that the woman's vaginal area be dry rather than moist. The women either dry it immediately before sex or use certain herbs to make it dry. The men feel this heightens their (the men's) sexual pleasure. This means there is more irritation along with more scraping, cutting and bruising thereby increasing the area subject to HIV transmission.

If there is to be any hope of reducing the incidence of HIV/AIDS in southern Africa there will have to be changes in the sexual practices of the people.

Dry sex. That is like running your car without oil. It ain't gonna work, and if it does then it will cause some serious pain.

My only issue is this - we basically need to put all our money and efforts into promoting one message because we're working with limited resources and limited attention spans. Seems like it would be better to focus on using condoms rather than the circumcision thing. Not to mention trying to avoid the confusion between "reduces the chances" and "prevents."

While I was Googling circumcision/HIV/AIDS I came across an interesting piece of information. It seems southern African like to dry fu*k. The men prefer that the woman's vaginal area be dry rather than moist. The women either dry it immediately before sex or use certain herbs to make it dry. The men feel this heightens their (the men's) sexual pleasure. This means there is more irritation along with more scraping, cutting and bruising thereby increasing the area subject to HIV transmission.


Reading this just gave me one of these "eureka moments". Normally, the chances of a male contracting AIDS from a female are very small due to limited fluid transfer. I have always wondered how AIDS has spread in such a rapid way in Africa. But of course dry sex would make a huge difference since any cuts or scrapes greatly increase the likelihood of transfer.

I am still not certain how circumcision will decrease the likelihood and like Cro-Magnon, thought at first it was a joke. Obviously condoms are not a choice that Africans are willing to contemplate at this time for whatever reason.

Sal, anal sex is also the preferred method of birth control among African couples. That, along with general promiscuity adds to the increase in the incidence of HIV/AIDS.

I seriously doubt it, how can it be possible to stop AIDS when having sexual intercourse with someone who has AIDS? Even when using condoms, I still doubt that a condom is in any way any percentage of protection, "porosity". .........Is this a JOKE?

Is it a JOKE when you say you "doubt" condoms are helpful in preventing AIDS........?!?!?!

Surely any person who has even a passing aquaintance with the subject knows that it is a complete misconception to say --------"I still doubt that a condom is in any way any percentage of protection" .

Latex condoms are in fact HIGHLY effective in preventing it.

Latex condoms are in fact HIGHLY effective in preventing it.

OK, what I know is this: The porosity of latex is the same thing as if with a fishing net to catch sharks (big holes) was use to catch anchovies, anchovies would just find its easy way through that net. The size of the HIV virus is way smaller than the porosity (holes) of latex. So, I still have my doubts that condoms are really effective, anyway I don't go around looking for someone outside home to knock down on any bed, love/sex at home is the best way to avoid it, but just curious how the rest of people play the Russian Roulette with their lives.

Monogamy is the answer.

Thank God I was single before HIV/AIDS.

Monogamy is the answer.

Thank God I was single before HIV/AIDS.
Yeah that's what I think too. Grwoing up my biggest fear was pregnancy...now it would be death. If Kennedy had lived, he would have died of AIDS.

So, I still have my doubts that condoms are really effective

Then you have not read the latest scientific studies.

The scientifically sound results are in. Honest, fact-based safer sex education programs and easy access to condoms help reduce rates of disease and pregnancy among teens who are already sexually active. Consistent and correct condom use reduces the risk of HIV transmission by as much as 10,000 times (the studies that reported the HIV virus leaking through latex were done using particles 100 million times smaller than the HIV found in semen). And while condoms admittedly do not cover all the genital skin through which some infections can be passed they do cover the areas of the penis where the majority of sexually transmitted diseases and infections hang out. In fact, failure to use condoms has been shown to be one of the highest risk factors for contracting the HPV infections that can cause cervical cancer.

Myth #3: HIV can pass through condoms
A commonly held misperception is that latex condoms contain "holes" that allow passage of HIV. Laboratory studies show that intact latex condoms provide a highly effective barrier to sperm and micro-organisms, including HIV and the much smaller hepatitis B virus.

So, I still have my doubts that condoms are really effective....
Unfuckingbelievable.

Does this mean you don't believe in using them? :(

Condoms are not a foolproof AIDS preventive just as they are not a foolproof pregnancy preventive but they are a hell of a lot better than going bareback.

Consistent and correct condom use reduces the risk of HIV transmission by as much as 10,000 times (the studies that reported the HIV virus leaking through latex were done using particles 100 million times smaller than the HIV found in semen).
A commonly held misperception is that latex condoms contain "holes" that allow passage of HIV. Laboratory studies show that intact latex condoms provide a highly effective barrier to sperm and micro-organisms, including HIV and the much smaller hepatitis B virus.

Thanks for the INFO, will check on it. My concerns are always for the other human beings especially kids (a lot younger than me, that is), since they are in the "adventure" cicle of live, I have three kids in their late 20's, though they are very well informed, they were trained at school by CEDRO (an institution financed by private companies to find the leaders among school kids, and train them to address the issues of drugs and AIDS to their classmates, US should have something similar to CEDRO).
Does this mean you don't believe in using them? I would have use them if I needed them anyway, but always thinking that I was running a high risk.
Now after reading last Freethinker's post, I can say I could be wrong, though it was said in the 90's by a group of scientists and doctors on TV about their concerns with porosity. Anyway one can only feel a 100% safe if the things we use have been proven a 100% safe.