Many people believe in reincarnation and many think that there is only one life, and then there is the eternal spiritual one. I do believe that we come back to this world or another to better ourselves, but not to better in the material sense, but to get an upgrade (if the word applies) in the SPIRITUAL realm. Without these expiriences we do not advance on the other side. Would like to know your opinions on this matter, whether against it or in favour, there is a third option of course, the one that many think that there is no other side, or other life, and once you are dead, everything dies with the body.

Reincarnation and the Bible

In many documented near-death experiences involving Jesus, the concept of reincarnation appears. In the NDE testimony of Jeanie Dicus, she was asked by Jesus if she would like to reincarnate or return. Sandra Rogers was asked the same question by Jesus during her NDE. One of the reasons many Christians reject the validity of near-death testimony is because they sometimes appear to conflict with their interpretation of Christian doctrines. But Christians are usually very surprised to learn that reincarnation was a doctrine once held by many early Christians. Not only that, as you will soon see there is overwhelming evidence in the Bible of Jesus himself teaching it. More Biblical evidence can be found in Herbert Puryear's outstanding book entitled Why Jesus Taught Reincarnation and Dr. Quincy Howe, Jr.'s excellent book entitled Reincarnation for the Christian.

Many Christians have misconceptions about reincarnation. One particular misconception is that it means people don't inhabit heavenly realms between earth lives. The misconception is that people reincarnate immediately after death. It ignorantly assumes people will never be permanent residents of heavenly realms. But near-death testimony reveals these misconceptions to be just that - misconceptions. People are free to spend an "eternity of eternities" in afterlife realms before reincarnating to earth again. There is freedom of choice. This is because time, as we know it on Earth, does not exist in the afterlife realms as it does here. The ultimate purpose for reincarnation is for us to learn enough lessons and gain enough experience from earth lives that reincarnation is no longer necessary. Like a graduation. Reincarnation is not the goal. Eternal life means never having to die anymore. That is the goal - overcoming death and rebirth. Reincarnation is the method and means to attain this goal. For more information on this visit my research conclusions on reincarnation.

A good understanding of reincarnation begins by understanding the ancient teachings on the subject and comparing them to what we know about NDEs. The following are teachings of the various ancient religions on reincarnation.

You can find the rest of this page in the following address:

http://www.near-death.com/experiences/origen03.html

Many people believe in reincarnation and many think that there is only one life, and then there is the eternal spiritual one. I do believe that we come back to this world or another to better ourselves, but not to better in the material sense, but to get an upgrade (if the word applies) in the SPIRITUAL realm. Without these expiriences we do not advance on the other side. Would like to know your opinions on this matter, whether against it or in favour, there is a third option of course, the one that many think that there is no other side, or other life, and once you are dead, everything dies with the body.

[FONT="Verdana"]Reincarnation and the Bible

Yes I personally believe in multiple lives, the goal of which is the evolution of the soul. I also believe in the teachings of Christ and personally have no conflict with that belief and that of the Christian faith. My roots are Catholic. I do not attend church but would have no problem or conflict in doing so. My partner is a fundamental Christian and although he does not understand my faith, neither does he judge it or criticize it.

I also believe in spiritual guides and they are a part of my daily life.

I believe we orchestrate our own journey and that each life has certain goals or objectives which we have previously determined we need to reach in order to grow or evolve.

That would be sort of a general overview. A bizarre mix of things I know. But it works for me. :drive:

If there is nothing after and we merely wink out, well it won't matter then what anyone has believed it will only matter that we have made the best of each day while we were here. As for going to hell because I do not embrace another's belief, well, I will take my chances as I can not conceive of the highest power in the universe having an ego that immense or a directive that harsh for I am only human and I could not be that cruel. And we are but a spark from His immense flame, but still we are in His likeness.

I understand that we decide this objectives before we come to this material living, but the problem is to remember them, and that takes some soul advance to be able to fully remember. I also think that we have all the knowledge and that it is inside all of us when we are born, and again it is only a matter of remembering. Also born Catholic and still consider myself one, but like you I don't go to church; my church, my temple is everywhere, I might feel sometimes the need to go and enter a Church (Catholic), and then I do it with no problem. True, I don't see any conflicts with believing in Reincarnation and Christianity, even though many say that there is only one life. But that is their view, and all of us have our own views, and neither one is invalid. Anyway we may find out one day or simply vanish into thin air, which I don't believe.

Ages ago I read a novel that had a minor character in it who believed in a kind of extreme reincarnation. The idea is there is and was only one single human soul ever - experiencing reality by travelling through the life of every individual person who ever lived and ever will live.

I don't personally believe in any form of reincarnation (or life after death for that matter) but this always struck me as the only form of supernatural morality that has any justice to it. Whenever you cause another person to suffer in one life, you will be the one suffering in a future life (or were the one suffering in a past life); and the more people you cause to suffer the more lives of suffering you will/have live/d. It's a terrifying idea but supremely just all the same. If extreme reincarnation were true it sure would make you want to see an end to world poverty!

This always struck me as the only form of supernatural morality that has any justice to it. Whenever you cause another person to suffer in one life, you will be the one suffering in a future life (or were the one suffering in a past life); and the more people you cause to suffer the more lives of suffering you will/have live/d. It's a terrifying idea but supremely just all the same. If extreme reincarnation were true it sure would make you want to see an end to world poverty!
When I started paying some attention to this possibility, like you, I found that finally something made sense when it came to "justice" too. I too believe in Reincarnation and it doesn't oppose to my Christian believes, no matters what others say, after all this is a matter in which no one holds the truth. It is open to all kinds of speculations, but again it makes sense. I think we were given the intellect to figure out the truth out of the multiple believes out there in the world, and I am sure no one believes exactly the same way, even inside the same religion.

I understand that we decide this objectives before we come to this material living, but the problem is to remember them, and that takes some soul advance to be able to fully remember.

Hi Spirit, nice to make your acquaintance. I am not even sure if what I believe is remotely possible in the long run. I only know that as of late, I seem to keep running into other beings who do not think that what I believe is totally off the wall. Some of my Christian friends do of course, and they humour me in a condescending sort of way. But that is okay with me somehow. Maybe because I just turned 50. :)

Funny that your are Catholic... Catholics always were weird. ;)

I do not believe we have to remember anything. This life is for this objective and that is all. I am not into regression because of the whole psychology of it. The brain/mind can play tricks and the power of suggestion is too strong.

In fact, my friend the fundamentalist, I believe to be on a higher plane than I am. He doesn't even believe in evolution and yet I believe his level to be higher than mine. He is kinder, more generous, and in someways more centered than I am. (He would not agree but there it is).

There are also a few atheist friends of mine that are higher than me. Somehow I think it has more to do with a balanced and giving life, that reflects our level. Don't know if that makes sense or not?

Ages ago I read a novel that had a minor character in it who believed in a kind of extreme reincarnation. The idea is there is and was only one single human soul ever - experiencing reality by travelling through the life of every individual person who ever lived and ever will live.

I don't personally believe in any form of reincarnation (or life after death for that matter) but this always struck me as the only form of supernatural morality that has any justice to it. Whenever you cause another person to suffer in one life, you will be the one suffering in a future life (or were the one suffering in a past life); and the more people you cause to suffer the more lives of suffering you will/have live/d. It's a terrifying idea but supremely just all the same. If extreme reincarnation were true it sure would make you want to see an end to world poverty!

First of all, Blob it is so nice to see that you are still here. Thanks for the welcome back in another thread. I meant to respond and then lost my footing and could not find my way back to your post... I know we frequently do not agree and that we have tussled in the past but I respect your mind and the way you present and I always learn from your opinion as it gives me pause. :) I also find you to be kind when you realize someone will never "get" what you mean. You can also be relentless. ;)

I like the idea that you presented in the book that you read and I think it has merit in that everything is energy. Everything we send out comes back in one way or another; positive and negative. I do not think it is terrifying, I think it is just and I do believe the universe to be just in the long run.

Friends of mine that are higher than me. Somehow I think it has more to do with a balanced and giving life, that reflects our level. Don't know if that makes sense or not?
If we come from that source that knows it all, don't you think we too have that knowledge with us, that is why I think that it is all about remembering that knowledge and help others remember.
Your humbleness probably puts you on a higher spiritual level. But that isn't important, I believe we are not in a race with other spirits. Catholics are not weird, but different, some would think that Protestants are weird too, but again, it is just the difference in our views. If one is born into a group of people and behave like most of them, anything different would seem weird. I also believe that while we are advancing we must also work and help those who seem to be staying behind (sort of Jonathan Livingston Seagull). It is hard to open someone else's eyes to knowledge, specially when those others think your are crazy for believing what you believe. I also believe that all the intellect we were given must serve the purpose of figuring out nature and how, both, nature-science and religious believes really go together. I believe in evolution too, for the spirits enter all kinds of life, and the more advance a spirit is it will fall into a more advance form of life, eventually all spirits will evolve to unite once again to the source (call it God), we are on a homeward bound journey. I don't believe in eternal punishment, everything is just a passing by state.
Have you ever read a book called, "The Three Candles of Little Veronica" by Manfred Kyber. If interested, check Alibris.com, for a used copy, since I believe it has been out of print for sometime.

Glad to be talking to you ~Sal~

First of all, Blob it is so nice to see that you are still here. Thanks for the welcome back in another thread. I meant to respond and then lost my footing and could not find my way back to your post... I know we frequently do not agree and that we have tussled in the past but I respect your mind and the way you present and I always learn from your opinion as it gives me pause. :) I also find you to be kind when you realize someone will never "get" what you mean. You can also be relentless. ;)Thanks sal that's far too generous of you. Your calming and diplomatic presence has always had a positive impact on this forum and I'm genuinely glad to see you back. I hope you'll find I'm more relaxed and compromising (in my manner if not my beliefs!) these days - a little more like you perhaps.

Well that's enough of that. People will say we're in love! :D

If you wish to believe in reincarnation, fine, millions around the world do. Do not try to equate it with Christianity or say Christianity is okay with it though. Christians do not believe in reincarnation. That was decided over fifteen hundred years ago when Origen was repudiated for promoting false doctrine.

Christians believe people have one mortal life and one only.

If we come from that source that knows it all, don't you think we too have that knowledge with us, that is why I think that it is all about remembering that knowledge and help others remember.

I don't know if I believe we have ALL of that knowledge with us or not. For me though it is not about remembering so much as it is about growing or evolving.

"I believe we are not in a race with other spirits."
I agree it is not a competition but I believe it is important to recognize those on a higher level because that is what I aspire to. In order to climb higher I have to identify what is "higher".

Catholics are not weird,
Yeah they are! I am only kidding Spirit. I said it tongue-in-cheek. It is something I would only say to another Catholic in jest. It was not a put down. On the contrary, most "Christians" that I meet who are Catholic tend to be a little more open-minded about my belief system even if they mock it a bit, they don't get all bent out of shape and try to save me. Catholic means "more liberal" and for the most part I think they likely are (in my experience anyway).

I also believe that while we are advancing we must also work and help those who seem to be staying behind
Somewhat would agree. In general, I would say the journey is personal. I will meet along the way those who I need in order to grow and change. I will either embrace their positions and learn from them or I will pass them by because I am not yet ready to hear their message or see their enlightenment. Same with people who encounter me. Most times I find the people I bond with have something they need from me and I have something I need from them. (Even if that something which I need from them is only the need "to give".

I don't believe in eternal punishment, everything is just a passing by state.

Me either, yet I do believe the more ignorant and unenlightened are further from The Light and remain there till they choose to move forward. We create our own hell. Even here on earth, we pretty much steer the ship.

I have never read the book The Three Candles but do feel since you have put it out there, that there may be something in there that I need to read so I will look it up...and thank you Spirit.

Blob:Well that's enough of that. People will say we're in love!
Alas (sob) I am too old for ya young'un. ;)

If you wish to believe in reincarnation, fine, millions around the world do. Do not try to equate it with Christianity or say Christianity is okay with it though. Christians do not believe in reincarnation. That was decided over fifteen hundred years ago when Origen was repudiated for promoting false doctrine.

Christians believe people have one mortal life and one only.

And could all of those millions be wrong?

Juuuuust kidding Frogger. Reading further in here I see you are indeed a teacher...gave me a chuckle Frogger. :) I hope you have read enough of my posts since then to understand I was not trying to be rude on the "test" post. I was just being playful.

I don't believe I was equating Christianity with reincarnation. I was saying that for me personally there is not a conflict with my personal belief system and with the Christian belief system. I think all religions hold many, many truths. I do not believe any one stream of thought/belief/religion has the whole answer.

The thought that Spirit put forward for discussion is not a new one regarding the bible and things that have been removed from it, the notion of reincarnation merely being one.

I didn't think your initial post was rude, Sal.

My disagreement isn't necessarily with you. It is with people who say you can be a Christian and believe in reincarnation. The core of Christianity is a belief in the divinity of Jesus. Jesus said to the theif on the cross, "This day you will be with me in heaven." He didn't say, "Your faith has made you a better person and in your next life you will come back as a rich merchant rather than a theif."

The Bible does not talk about people dying and coming back as someone else. That was a doctrine espoused by Origen and it was repudiated over fifteen hundred years ago.

i believe reincarnation was OUTLAWED by the church in the 800's. as well as suicide.

If you wish to believe in reincarnation, fine, millions around the world do. Do not try to equate it with Christianity or say Christianity is okay with it though. Christians do not believe in reincarnation. That was decided over fifteen hundred years ago when Origen was repudiated for promoting false doctrine. Christians believe people have one mortal life and one only.

So, whats your point, are telling me that others decide/decided what you have to believe (you must be a fundamentalist and protestant - no offense). Anything religion/metaphysical is always open to changes in thought, not that our thoughts will in anyway change that truth that is still hidden, and we can't be sure if what we believe is the truth, that is why we just "believe", anyway we don't have to agree. If you are a Christian that does not believe in reincarnation, fine, but I do, and I don't care what others say or believe, we are all individuals at this point, with our own thinking, sometimes some of us share the same thoughts. And I don't have any problems with being Catholic and believing in reincarnation, (and I've had chats with Catholic priests, and they say that all knowledge is available when you are ready for it, even when it comes to reincarnation; not that anything that they say will influence my thoughts anyway).

That was a doctrine espoused by Origen and it was repudiated over fifteen hundred years ago.

I have never heard of Origen before. I have started reading about his philosophy and theology. It is interesting reading. Thanks Frogger.

Talking about afterlives, heaven and reincarnation always confronts me with a major problem. I cannot conceive of what eternity means. Whether we go to heaven now, or are reincarnated an almost infinite number of times, that still leaves me with the same problem.

Yes, I believe we have a soul. Something makes our mind run, even if scientists cannot find out what it is. What happens to this soul after death. I don't know, but it must go somewhere where time does not exist. Or at least I hope it does, because I can think of nothing worse than being condemned to repeating events for ever. Even the happiest of events would eventually become hell.

The latest advances in string theory show that there possibly many more than the 3 dimensions+time than we know of. Indeed time may not exist in some of these dimensions, at least not in the way we think of it. Perhaps our soul eventually finds its way through these other dimensions until we reach a place where time truly ceases to exist.

Do I believe in the bible? Only in the same way that I believe in the primers for grade school. How on earth could God teach man about eternity etc., back 2000 years ago? How could he teach us about it now?

I've rambled a bit, but as another post put it (on an entirely different thread), emotions and words are quite different. On this subject my emotions and words may well be jumbled.