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Deepest Red
08-11-2006, 03:51 AM
World Socialist Web Site (http://www.wsws.org/articles/2006/aug2006/lond-a11.shtml)

Britain's airline terror plot: Questions that need to be answered
By the Editorial Board
11 August 2006


The claim that American and British security forces have thwarted a
terrorist plot to blow up commercial flights between Britain and the United
States should not be accepted uncritically. It is impossible to determine at
this point whether or not such an attack was in the offing, although the
mass media have, as usual, reported the assertions of the British and
American governments as indisputable fact, without bothering to ask for any
specific information that would substantiate the official story.

The British police statement that the alleged plotters aimed to "create mass
murder on an unimaginable scale" by blowing up mid-flight an unspecified
number of aircraft is chilling. The far-reaching security measures that have
been implemented-including the shutdown of London's Heathrow Airport and an
indefinite ban on carry-on luggage-add to the climate of fear and
apprehension.

At a time such as this-in the midst of spectacular claims from London and
Washington, a media barrage supporting them, and a massive disruption of
commercial flights resulting from extreme security measures-it is all the
more imperative that people not suspend their capacity for critical thought
and political judgement.

Raids in the early hours of Thursday morning on homes and business premises
in London and the West Midlands resulted in 21 arrests. Spokesmen for the US
and British governments asserted that those arrested were involved in the
most significant terrorist plot since 9/11.

Later reports said that 24 people had been arrested in Britain and more had
been detained in Pakistan. Among those arrested were a Muslim charity worker
and a Heathrow Airport employee with an all-area access pass, according to
Britain's Channel 4 News. Five suspects in the plot are still at large,
according to ABC News, which cited US sources.

BBC News reported Thursday evening that the arrests were the result of a
long-standing investigation coordinated between the US, British and
Pakistani governments. British Home Secretary John Reid in a press
conference earlier on Thursday said Prime Minister Tony Blair had briefed
President George Bush on the impending arrests and security measures over
the weekend.

Subsequent reports claimed the plotters had planned to target simultaneously
up to ten aircraft from three US carriers by smuggling onboard liquid
chemical explosives disguised as beverages or electronic devices.

US intelligence officials said the plotters hoped to stage a "dry run" today
(Friday) and the actual attack would have followed days later. A senior
congressional source claimed the plotters planned to mix a sports drink with
a peroxide-based paste to make an "explosive cocktail" that could be
triggered by an MP3 player or cell phone.

President George Bush made a brief statement mid-day Thursday that was
calculated to heighten public anxieties and exploit the alleged terror plot
to justify the panoply of reactionary policies his administration has
pursued since 9/11 in the name of the "war on terror."

Speaking on an airport runway in Green Bay, Wisconsin, he said that the
thwarted plot was a "stark reminder that this nation is at war with Islamic
fascists who will use any means to destroy those of us who love freedom." He
suggested that the plot vindicated the measures-massive domestic spying,
military tribunals, detentions without trial-taken by his administration to
"protect the American people," and went on to warn that "it is a mistake to
believe there is no threat to the United States of America."

The World Socialist Web Site has no information that allows us to make a
definitive judgement on the existence or non-existence of a terrorist plot
on the scale claimed. However, it is the responsibility of the US and
British governments to produce the facts that would substantiate their
allegations and justify the extreme security measures they have taken, and
to present these facts to the public in a clear and concise manner.

They have produced no such factual account or substantiation.

Neither the White House nor Downing Street has any right to expect people to
accept their claims at face value, or place confidence in any of their
statements. The war against Iraq was legitimised on the basis of false
claims of Iraqi weapons of mass destruction and ties between Saddam Hussein
and Al Qaeda. These lies have destroyed forever the credibility of Bush and
Blair.

If it is true that such a heinous crime was being planned, the
responsibility for this ultimately rests with the policies pursued by
Washington and London. Ever since 9/11, both Bush and Blair have employed
the mantra of the "war on terror" as a cover for their predatory war aims in
the Middle East, immensely intensifying anti-American and anti-British
sentiment within the Muslim world. At the same time, the "war on terror" has
been used domestically as the pretext for an unprecedented assault on
democratic rights.

Faced with a worsening debacle in Afghanistan and Iraq, and massive
international opposition to their support for Israel's devastation of
Lebanon, both governments have an interest in perpetuating an atmosphere of
hysteria. Such a climate serves to intimidate their opponents and justify
ever more draconian measures at home and abroad.

In point of fact, the official accounts in Britain of the alleged terror
plot lack any specific or verifiable facts and are remarkably short on
detail. The statements by American officials are no better when it comes to
serious substantiation. They are, however, more detailed in their claims.

US Homeland Security Secretary Michael Chertoff told a televised news
conference that the plot was "a very sophisticated plan and operation" and
was close to fruition. "It was not a circle with a handful of people sitting
around and dreaming,'' he said. "They had accumulated the capability
necessary and they were well on their way.''

The plot appeared to have been aimed at US carriers flying out of Heathrow,
he continued. It was "international in scope" and suggestive of Al Qaeda.

He did not give a specific date for the timing of the plan, but said it may
have been before the anniversary of the 9/11 attacks. "I can't tell you they
had a particular date in mind," he said. "Nor can I tell you that they would
have waited that long. This was quite close to the execution date."

Chertoff offered no explanation of how security services knew that a terror
attack was imminent when they didn't know the target date for its execution.

This is by no means the only question mark hanging over official accounts.

Britain's Home Secretary Reid gave the impression in his press conference
that the evidence prompting the arrests came from the UK, and CNN reported
that information gathered after recent arrests in Pakistan convinced British
investigators they had to act urgently to stop the plot. However, Britain's
Channel 4 reported that UK authorities had acted based on intelligence
provided by the CIA.

Moreover, if Blair was in discussions with Bush over the weekend about an
"imminent" terrorist attack, why did he still leave for his holiday in
Barbados on Tuesday? And given that the plot is said to have targeted
planes, why did the security services allow him to do so?

And if the threat posed by the plot was considered dangerous enough to
warrant raising the terror alert in the UK from "severe" to "critical" and
to code red in the US, why were no arrests made for five days? And why was
the terror alert only raised after the arrests were made and not before?

No such questions have been asked by the media. And yet recent months have
seen a number of alleged terrorist plots-in the US, Canada and
Australia-that were supposedly thwarted by the security services. In each
case, mass arrests were made of people who, according to the indictments,
had merely discussed terrorist acts. No concrete plans were discovered, no
weapons or explosives seized. And in most of these cases, the supposed plots
were initiated and encouraged by government informers who acted as agent
provocateurs and entrapped the alleged conspirators.

In the case of July's so-called "tunnel bomb" plot in New York, the
purported conspirators were foreign nationals who had never set foot in the
US.

As for the political utility of the current terror scare, it should be noted
that only hours before Thursday's raids, British Home Secretary Reid gave a
major speech in London in which he accused opponents of the government's
anti-democratic legislation of undermining the "war on terror."

In the face of what he called "probably the most sustained period of severe
threat since the end of the second world war," Reid decried those who "don't
get it," blaming them for the fact that "we remain unable to adapt our
institutions and legal orthodoxy as fast as we need to."

Making it clear that the required "adaptation" meant the gutting of
traditional democratic rights, he added: "Sometimes we may have to modify
some of our own freedoms in the short term in order to prevent their misuse
and abuse by those who oppose our fundamental values and would destroy all
of our freedoms in the modern world."

Brooks
08-11-2006, 04:39 AM
Red, Yeah, I can look that article up.
What do you think?

Frogger
08-11-2006, 10:30 AM
And if the threat posed by the plot was considered dangerous enough to
warrant raising the terror alert in the UK from "severe" to "critical" and
to code red in the US, why were no arrests made for five days? And why was
the terror alert only raised after the arrests were made and not before?


Hey, Chief, why don't we alert the terrorists to the fact that we are on to them by precipitously arresting a few of them. No sense waiting until we can bag almost all of them and thwart their efforts. While we're at it let's raise the alert status from severe to critical. Of course that won't alert them that we just might be on to them. After all, they're only a bunch of dumb terrorists.

Lungdop Philing
08-11-2006, 10:34 AM
The whole thing is a friggin' joke. Even the stock market laughed at it and went up. What's the chances of that happening if the terror threat was real?

Frogger
08-11-2006, 10:55 AM
Oh yes, it is all a big joke. There are no terrorists. We should dismantle the Office of Homeland Security, open our borders and get our troops out of Iraq and Afghanistan.

Maybe you should change your name from, Lungdop to Lungdupe.

LionelHutz
08-11-2006, 11:16 AM
The whole thing is a friggin' joke. Even the stock market laughed at it and went up. What's the chances of that happening if the terror threat was real?

So apparently everyone who owns stock in this country has total awareness of what's going on?

DrewM
08-11-2006, 11:17 AM
The whole thing is a friggin' joke. Even the stock market laughed at it and went up. What's the chances of that happening if the terror threat was real?

You think it wasn't real & somehow every trader in the stockmarket knew that too. You're way out there on some outer planet in the solar system thats for sure. I think the official term is wacko. Perhaps you should consider staying off the Ketamine for a few days...

Brooks
08-11-2006, 11:49 AM
Oh yes, it is all a big joke. There are no terrorists. We should dismantle the Office of Homeland Security, open our borders and get our troops out of Iraq and Afghanistan.

Maybe you should change your name from, Lungdop to Lungdupe.Frogger, don't waste your breath. He has already predicted Israel will use nukes and cluster bombs.
You can't embarass him.

The Praetorian
08-11-2006, 11:58 AM
You're way out there on some outer planet in the solar system thats for sure...
I think he believes he is, too. Spoooooooooky.

DrewM
08-11-2006, 12:51 PM
http://craphound.com/images/liquids-on-a-plane.jpg

Lungdop Philing
08-11-2006, 01:13 PM
You guys all belong on FOX news ... they too said terra 'lerts are good for the stock market ... WTF? I'm the one on another planet?

DrewM
08-11-2006, 03:34 PM
You are on another planet if you truly believe that the stockmarket (an entity made up by hundreds of millions of people) collectively knows something about if a plot is a fake or not.

I don't see how a foiled plot should have much impact on the stockmarket at all either way. It doesn't have any impact on the earnings of companies one way or another, perhaps airline stocks could fall a bit & security company stocks could rise, but beyond that - a foiled plot has no impact on the economy & stock markets have no reason to do do much at all.

I'm pretty sure if 3000 people had died - the markets would have dropped sharply.

Lungdop Philing
08-11-2006, 04:41 PM
You are on another planet if you truly believe that the stockmarket (an entity made up by hundreds of millions of people) collectively knows something about if a plot is a fake or not.

I don't see how a foiled plot should have much impact on the stockmarket at all either way. It doesn't have any impact on the earnings of companies one way or another, perhaps airline stocks could fall a bit & security company stocks could rise, but beyond that - a foiled plot has no impact on the economy & stock markets have no reason to do do much at all.

I'm pretty sure if 3000 people had died - the markets would have dropped sharply.

We have a president that's one trigger-finger away from nuking Syria and Iran and one terra attack (real or not) away from declaring martial law and you can't see how a possible terra attack would effect the markets?

Does oil prices ring a bell? How about the word China?

DrewM
08-11-2006, 04:44 PM
Obviously the consensus of the markets doesn't agree with your extreme assessment.

Brooks
08-11-2006, 06:18 PM
We have a president that's one trigger-finger away from nuking Syria and Iran and one terra attack (real or not) away from declaring martial law and you can't see how a possible terra attack would effect the markets?
Dop, Just so I know how to invest properly, please put these future events in chronological order for me:
Israel will nuke Lebanon.
Israel will clusterbomb Lebanon
We will find the 100,000 bodies in Louisiana.
US nukes Syria
US nukes Iran
Fitzgerald get Karl Rove

The Praetorian
08-11-2006, 06:53 PM
Lmao!

500lbguerilla
08-11-2006, 08:52 PM
That pic is hilarious..I knew someone had to do it sooner or later. I expected it from Fark.

LionelHutz
08-11-2006, 09:47 PM
Dop, Just so I know how to invest properly, please put these future events in chronological order for me:
Israel will nuke Lebanon.
Israel will clusterbomb Lebanon
We will find the 100,000 bodies in Louisiana.
US nukes Syria
US nukes Iran
Fitzgerald get Karl Rove

You forgot:

Diebold uses depleted uranium in voting machines.
The Presidency is outsourced to India.

Lungdop Philing
08-12-2006, 08:50 AM
Something that just doesn't seem right ...

These guys were going to have a dry run in 2 days, so the story goes, and then the real deal in 3 more days. So that means 20 something arabs would have to book seats on 10 or more planes with a 2-3 day notice, during peak summer travel on what is probably the busiest trans-atlantic flight (London -> NY).

Has anyone (besides me) ever tried to book that flight this time of year? Do you know what the chances are they would be able to get on all 10 planes? Do you realize what it would cost ($3000? $4000? $5000? each). Did they have the money to support this deal?

Wouldn't the airlines be at least curious why 20 arabs would suddenly be willing to pay top dollar all at the same time with the same destination?

DrewM
08-12-2006, 08:57 AM
They apparently were wired a considerable sum of money to buy tickets. You are right though, a last moment ticket in Aug would certainly cost at least $3000.

Vilepagan
08-12-2006, 09:00 AM
You forgot:

Diebold uses depleted uranium in voting machines.
The Presidency is outsourced to India.

:D

I love your sense of humor Lionel.

Frogger
08-12-2006, 09:02 AM
Lungdop,

You are assuming that a dry run means every single person would have to take a plane ride with a bottle of explosive liquid. That is not what a dry run means. Only one person would have to attempt it in order to see if it was feasible.

LionelHutz
08-12-2006, 09:03 AM
Who's to say (at this point) that they didn't make reservations a long time ago?

Frogger
08-12-2006, 09:05 AM
Lungdop Philing, of course.

Lungdop Philing
08-12-2006, 09:05 AM
Lungdop,

You are assuming that a dry run means every single person would have to take a plane ride with a bottle of explosive liquid. That is not what a dry run means. Only one person would have to attempt it in order to see if it was feasible.

I'm talking about the real run and pointing out the plan called for only 3 days between the dry and real runs which puts them in the position I outlined.

Lungdop Philing
08-12-2006, 09:09 AM
Who's to say (at this point) that they didn't make reservations a long time ago?

Everything I've read implies they hadn't booked flights. Do you have some information contrary to that?

500lbguerilla
08-12-2006, 05:22 PM
He's got an excellant point.

Why wouldn't they already have tickets. Ignore the top dollar thing. What would they have done if the plane was booked? Oh well try again next week? Seems unlikely to me that this was serious/imminant if they didn't even have tickets yet...

And no Frogger a 'dry run' would at least include 4 or more of them. Were talking 2 part explosive here and a test run seems useless unless you have at least 2 sttempts.

LionelHutz
08-12-2006, 10:01 PM
Everything I've read implies they hadn't booked flights. Do you have some information contrary to that?

No offense, Dop, but you frequently see things implied that others don't. But no, I don't have any information either way.

Lungdop Philing
08-13-2006, 12:44 PM
These muslims call BS on the airplane plot ... LOL

http://tinyurl.com/kfqmg

No offense taken Lionel.

DrewM
08-13-2006, 01:28 PM
And these muslims are basing their opinion on what?

They have an opinion & somehow that is news?

Frogger
08-13-2006, 02:27 PM
According to what I have read in the papers there were arrests in Pakistan and a call went out to the British terrorists to move the plan up and carry it out now. That might explain why they had not purchased airline tickets. The timetable was moved up.

500lbguerilla
08-13-2006, 03:34 PM
Source: U.S., U.K. at odds over timing of arrests
British wanted to continue surveillance on terror suspects, official says
Updated: 8:13 p.m. ET Aug. 12, 2006

LONDON - NBC News has learned that U.S. and British authorities had a significant disagreement over when to move in on the suspects in the alleged plot to bring down trans-Atlantic airliners bound for the United States.

A senior British official knowledgeable about the case said British police were planning to continue to run surveillance for at least another week to try to obtain more evidence, while American officials pressured them to arrest the suspects sooner. The official spoke on condition of anonymity due to the sensitivity of the case.

In contrast to previous reports, the official suggested an attack was not imminent, saying the suspects had not yet purchased any airline tickets. In fact, some did not even have passports.
http://www.msnbc.msn.com:80/id/14320452/