Schools juggle holidays for Muslims, other faiths

ALBANY, New York (AP) -- Sikh, Muslim, Buddhist, Jewish, Hindu, and Christian -- each faith has its holy days. Schools across the country are asking how to respect them all.

Consider the University at Albany, which canceled classes on major Muslim holidays. Faculty wanted the move out of concern for Muslim students after the September 11 attacks. But then came the questions: What about Hindus? Buddhists?

President Kermit Hall last fall decided to return to the original calendar.

"Can you operate a university and give each religious group an accommodation? I think the answer is, 'No,"' he said.

Make that "maybe." School administrators across the country are rethinking their calendars as their student bodies become more diverse.

In May, Muslim parents asked New York City's education department for days off on two major Muslim holidays, which some districts in Michigan and New Jersey already have granted. In January, a Long Island mosque petitioned New York Gov. George Pataki to consider the holidays when scheduling mandatory statewide testing. Last month, the state Legislature passed a bill that would take all religious holidays into account when scheduling the mandatory tests. The Council on American-Islamic Relations called it the first step toward recognizing Muslim holidays in public schools.

But also last month, despite a Muslim group's lobbying at every board meeting, the Baltimore County district in Maryland approved a calendar with a day off for the Jewish holiday Rosh Hashana, but none for Muslim holidays. The group had hoped the district's growing diversity -- 47.8 percent of students last year were minorities -- would be persuasive.

"Either I go against my faith, or I miss my schoolwork and have imperfect attendance," said 15-year-old Kanwal Rehman, who will enter 10th grade in Baltimore this fall. In January, her midterm exams fell during Eid al-Adha, one of the two most important holidays in Islam.

It can get complicated. When Muslims in the Tampa Bay region of Florida asked for a day off to celebrate the end of Ramadan, another local religious group perked up.

"There was discussion in the Hindu community if we should also push for a holiday," said Nikhil Joshi, a board member of the national Hindu American Foundation.

The Hillsborough County school board responded by ending days off for all religious holidays. The move inspired more than 3,500 e-mails. Christian leaders pleaded for the Muslim holiday. Finally, the district restored this fall's original calendar, with days off for Good Friday, Easter Monday and the Jewish holiday Yom Kippur.

The Muslim community was relieved it hadn't hurt other faiths. The Hindu community decided not to ask for days off.

"You would hope in a country of religious freedom all would be recognized, but we know that's not practical," Joshi said.

School districts say they can't take days off for purely religious reasons, but they can act if they think operations are affected by students or staff taking the day off.

That practice gives school holidays a certain regional flair. Some schools close for the beginning of hunting season. San Francisco schools have Cesar Chavez Day on March 30 to celebrate farmworkers, and Chicago schools have March 5 to honor Casimir Pulaski, a Polish count who helped the American side in the Revolutionary War.

Religion is more sensitive. Some districts mark "special observance days" when no test or exam can be scheduled. Other districts find inspiration in the business world -- each student gets a number of "floating" days to celebrate his or her own holidays with an excused absence.

"'Choose your own holiday' has become more popular," said Kathryn Lohre, assistant director of Harvard University's Pluralism Project, which studies diversity in religion. "It takes pressure off the school boards."

New Jersey's board of education now lists 76 excused religious holidays, from Russian Orthodox to Sikh. New York City schools are even more flexible. Students with a letter from parents get an excused absence for a holiday in any religion.

Some have tried the traditional route of schoolwide holidays, and failed. In Ohio, the Sycamore Community School District once canceled classes on the Jewish High Holy Days after some parents asked why schools closed on Good Friday. Muslim and Hindu parents then asked why they didn't get days off. The American Civil Liberties Union sued the district.

The case was settled in 2000, and the High Holy Days became school days again.
__________________________________________________ _______________

http://www.cnn.com/2006/EDUCATION/07/21/school.holidays.ap/index.html?section=cnn_latest

Make all publicly funded schools year-round and require that each student attend a set number of days in order to satisfy minimum attendance requirements.

Since they are publicly funded, they should be religion-blind and not recognize any holidays - but that's not going to happen. There's an abundance of litigious minded parents out there just waiting for their 15 minutes of fame any way they can get it. (first one that comes to mind is the knucklehead wasting the courts' time with the lawsuits over the Pledge of Allegiance - not trying to start yet another argument here, just citing one example).

Make all publicly funded schools year-round and require that each student attend a set number of days in order to satisfy minimum attendance requirements.Absolutely. Not only do we need to do this anyway, it would give students and parents their choice of which days to designate as holidays.

That's retarded. We already have a shortage of teachers, in order to do that we would logically need about one teacher for every single student. There is absolutely NO way a teacher could juggle 20 times their number of classes or even 5 times their number of classes of lesson plans every year. Teaching quality would fall through the basement, directly into hell. What needs to be done about holidays is nothing. It's really easy to get an excused absence and just not go to school when you have a religious day. The fact of the matter is that winter break is more than just christmas time in modern days and spring break has absolutely nothing to do with easter anymore, in fact around here it doesn't even fall within a week of easter. School districts just need to be not stupid, we don't have good friday off around here, but if I had a note, I'd be excused. ALL religious days around here are also no testing days so nothing that couldn't be easily made up wont be missed.

It's a good idea giving students a set number of days to use as vacation days or holidays per their specific faith, or even if they HAVE no faith.

But, year -round school is not a good idea. Kids need a break--they're overloaded as it is.

Parents need a break too.

Long live summer!

Make all publicly funded schools year-round and require that each student attend a set number of days in order to satisfy minimum attendance requirements.

While making sense at first reading this is a poor idea.

Classroom work follows a set progression. The teacher brings the class from point A to point B by following a particular path and schedule. When a holiday is declared all students and the teacher are out at the same time. The progression stops for that interval of time and then picks up again when the students and teacher return.

If students can opt to take vacations whenever they wish this orderly progression is disrupted. Different students will miss different portions of the path. It is bad enough when a student misses educational days because of illness or unforeseen events but if different students were attending school using different schedules there would be no way to systemize education. The teacher cannont halt the educational process because Jimmy and Betty have taken a week off and cannot catch them up to the rest of the class once they return.

That's correct, Frogger, and I didn't think of that---even with 5 kids in school.

Maybe if kids/parents of a different faith than the mainstream could be allowed time off but given a special assignment to make up for lost time.

IMO, we should only make major holidays as day offs. What I do now, is call the school and tell them that it is a religous holiday and they will excuse it. At this moment, different faiths excluding the Christianity branch, get the better end of the deal because they get the weeks off for the Christianity holiday and their own days off for their own holiday.

IMO, we should not take religion into account at all. There should simply be a majority-rules basis. If the majority is Christian or Jewish, then they would likely vote for their respective holidays to be days off from school.
The school would not be giving days off for holidays, but simply giving days off for when the most people would be unable to attend.

ya, religion should just be avoided. its only the most important and most misunderstodd thing in the world. almost every single person in the world believes in a god of some sort. wars are fought over it. ya, lets just pretend it doesnt exist :rolleyes:

Travh, I think you must just enjoy our little arguements

ya, religion should just be avoided. its only the most important and most misunderstodd thing in the world.
I obviously don't agree on it being the most important, since I'm an atheist. I do believe that it is the most misunderstood, which is why we should not use it for scheduling our lives.

almost every single person in the world believes in a god of some sort. wars are fought over it. ya, lets just pretend it doesnt exist :rolleyes:
Personally I would prefer that it didn't exist, mainly because of all those wars, but I didn't say to pretend it didn't exist. I just said that it shouldn't be a part of scheduling our school holidays

ya, religion should just be avoided. its only the most important and most misunderstodd thing in the world. almost every single person in the world believes in a god of some sort. wars are fought over it. ya, lets just pretend it doesnt exist :rolleyes:
A) It should be avoided in a public school that caters to all peoples, if you want religious or cultural school, send your child to a private school or academy. If you can't afford it, deal with what you have.
B) If it wasn't avoided, then the different beliefs in a God or gods (or disbelief) would clash and be difficult to appeal to everyone.
C) Roughly 15% of the world is non-religious, atheist, etc. That is a rather large chunk to say that "almost every single person in the world believes in a god of some sort"

we dont have to promote a certain faith, but going over them and their beliefs is a good idea. it its just plain stupid to pretend it isnt important b ecause 15% of the world thinks it isnt. everyone should know about the major religions and what their beliefs are. telling a kid religion isnt important isnt any worse then denying them science. botha re just as important in a persons life whether you vbelieve in them or not. Religious people should learn science, non religious people should learn religion.

we dont have to promote a certain faith, but going over them and their beliefs is a good idea. it its just plain stupid to pretend it isnt important b ecause 15% of the world thinks it isnt.
We're talking about the celebration and acknowledgement of religious holidays in public schools, not the discussion of religion in the classroom. As evidenced in the very title of this thread.

They still have the gift exchange tho, and sing songs, which, tho they're nonreligious, everyone knows what they mean. There's also Christmas trees galore--they just call them "holiday" trees nowadays.

There's ways around these things.

We're talking about the celebration and acknowledgement of religious holidays in public schools, not the discussion of religion in the classroom. As evidenced in the very title of this thread.

so no more "muslim for a day?"

so no more "muslim for a day?"


Never heard of such thing. Wanna clarify? Or are you just being sarcastic?

He's being trav.

He's being trav.


Lol..gotchya :thumbs:

How about taking es347fan's initial suggestion:

Make all publicly funded schools year-round and require that each student attend a set number of days in order to satisfy minimum attendance requirements.

except for the part about making schools year-round, and making teachers make a program for students who wish to not attend for a certain number of days for a religious excuse such as holding all the study material discussed during the week of the said students' absence?
It would mean that teachers would have to work more, but I think that solves it.

Innocent Sweety, Fan's plan is unworkable. I explained why in a previous post. I spent almost four decades in education and I can assure you Fan's idea, while seeming great at first reading cannot work. It is not because teacher's would have to work harder. Allowing students to decide which days they attend school would break up any continuity in education and the students would miss huge areas of the curriculum.

Let's step a little further into this. How about making a computer available to each student and let them communicate with the teacher through IM or email? The student would be responsible for meeting the requirements of a set curriculum through classroom hours attended and timely submission of assigned work in a given subject. We have to think differently about education, IMO.

I have worked with students who could not attend class for one reason or another in the past, Fan. It sounds good on paper but in reality it just doesn't work as well as actually sitting in class. Part of learning is the interaction with the rest of the class.

I would have no problem with extending the school year by cutting out many of the days off students presentlyl have, especially summer vacation. I also see nothing wrong with students taking the occassional religious holiday off, or even occassional personal days. The lose in educational momentum that would accompany such days off would be minimum. Allowing students and or parents to determine which large chunks of days away from school a student would have is not a good idea though.

I didn't leave out classroom attendance. "...through classroom hours attended ...".

Frogger, would you believe that making general holidays to be carried out by all students for each religious occasion would be the solution? I think that large chunks of studying for the rest of the students would be missed.

My opinion is that school is for education, period.
If people want their kids educated in this world they must put religion on the back burner during its hours.
They have the rest of their lives to practice a religion. Education is the secret to a successful life.
Schools should proceed without religious holidays. Heck, when I was in law enforcement it was not unusual to work on Christmas, Easter, Sunday or any holiday. The same with the medical field.
If you must observe religious holidays go to a religious school. There are plenty of them.

There are hundreds of religions. If you start accommodating each one there will be no time left for studies. Where would it end?

Frogger, would you believe that making general holidays to be carried out by all students for each religious occasion would be the solution? I think that large chunks of studying for the rest of the students would be missed.


No. I don't believe there should be days off for religious reasons. If a student wants to take Christmas Day off, fine, but why ten or more days?

So is it just Christmas then? Or would you say the same about all the other religions?

Get more computers into the hands of students at an early age. Provide a classroom live feed on the net and available for d/l by students. For those not attending that day, be it a "mental health" day, religious holiday, illness, death in family, paid vacation or whatever reason the child is not in school, the day's lesson would be available. Students would have to both attend class or when not attending, at least keep up with the progression of that class. For a child out with say .. a broken leg .. requiring weeks of bedrest but not much more, the child could even be included in the classroom through the wonders of video feed.
Internet based courses have become acceptable at the the higher levels of education, why not expand on that?

So is it just Christmas then? Or would you say the same about all the other religions?


No, it is not just Christmas. I used Christmas as an example because that is the holiday session most people in the U.S. and Canada are familiar with.

New York has a large Jewish population so schools are closed right at the beginning of the new term for Jewish holidays. It has gotten so bad that Channukah, a minor Jewish holiday has been increased in importance in order to compete with Christmas and schools in New York now close for that holiday as well as Christmas.

Closing for religious holidays was fine when the country was pretty much monolithic when it came to religion. Almost everyone was Christian so there was very little problem with closing the schools at that time. Now we have Christians, Jews, Muslims, Hindus, and members of other religions with fewer adherents attending public schools. Either we disrespect some religions by keeping schools open on their celebrations, close the schools on those days or simply accept the fact that a large portion of the student body will be out on days when school is officially in session.

The easiest solution is to stop closing the schools for religious holidays. While they are at it they should end or severly curtail summer vacations. So much is forgotten over the summer that the first month back in school after vacation is spent reviewing what was taught at the end of the previous year.

I don't know about that Frogger, your suggestion sounds too extreme. I think that es347fan's suggestion would work. Whenever I miss a lecture in university I can simply log onto blackboard to see what I've missed, or if my proffessor was too lazy to post that day I could just go to his or her office. I think that would solve it as long as students don't miss too many days, just one or two.

Innocent Sweetie, the original suggestion to which I objected was not about simply missing a class but deciding one's own vacation schedule. Something like that is unworkable for reasons I have already stated.

If you miss one or two days you can make it up, or if you don't at least the class is not held back. If individuals start making up their own vacation schedules learning cannot take place in any organized way.

Maybe you're just rigid.

E-learning (http://www.cnn.com/2006/EDUCATION/08/27/e.learning.dispute.ap/index.html). Discovered this article late today. I know it's not completely on topic, but it is related.

How many kids could really benefit from having a "think pad" issued to them, say .. in 5th grade ..? Would they learn faster? Better? Would you support a school system deciding to make that change?

Maybe you're just rigid.

I don't think I am simply being rigid, Fan. I am basing my opinion on almost four decades as an educator, as a teacher who taught students from grade three to college level, as an administrator and as a director of a special education program.

When students are out of the classroom for any length of time they tend to forget a certain percentge of what they learned. What they forget has to be retaught or at least reviewed when they come back to school. Ask any teacher about the first month after summer vacation and you will hear the same thing.

At least in the cases where all the students are off at the same time the entire class has some sort of base point from which to begin. They have all been out of school for the same amount of time and while they were on vacation there was no formal learning that was taught by the teacher going on.

If students are allowed to take their vacations whenever they wish different students will take vacations at different times of the year. Unlike when every student is out of school, formal education will continue while they are gone. When our imaginary student, lets call him Joey, comes back to school the class will have progressed beyond where it was when he began his vacation The rest of the class will be at a point different from him. The teacher cannot be expected to halt his/her teaching in order to allow Little Joey to catch up. Little Joey will just have to carry on with a gap in his education. Now Little Joey can, if he is ambitious enough, and very few students are, commit himself to a regimen of extra studying on his own at night in an attempt to fill in the gap in his education, but even then, he will have missed the interaction that took place in the classroom.

It is educationally unwise to allow for individual students to take vacations when they decide. While not perfect, the better course of action is to have all the students take vacation at the same time.

The only real question is, will these vacation periods be set up to coincide with religious holidays or will they be based on some other consideration. Will schools continue to shut down for Yom Kippor, Rosh Hoshanna, Channukah, Christmas and Easter or will they shut down for an Autumn, Winter, Spring and Summer break spaced more evenly thoughout the year.

As I read your response, I wonder if you're really accepting the possibilities of what I have proposed? Think of it more as flex-time applied to schools. If a smart tablet of some sort was needed to be kid proof (G.I. proof?) and preform certain functions and such, don't you think somebody'd build the thing & get the hardware into the students' hands? Get the education to the child in a manner they're familiar with. Interacting with a screen is what they know. IMHO, the possibility exists that we'd have more folks running around with more tools to take society to the next age ... you know, whatever comes next - if we can keep from killing ourselves, that is.

The problem I would see arising here would be an even wider gap between the rich and the poor, leading to greater and greater disparity.

Kids who are smart can do the whole year's curriculum in less than 3 months when home schooled. Some of my friends home schooled until high school and they excel in the higher grades and especially in university. But they have home support. Many kids do not.

Essentially, kids would be on their own, who could track each kid. I think it would turn into a system for the rich and academically advanced.

There are so many if's in a discussion in this direction, it's impossible to address them all. Should these "school aimed" think-pads become readily available, then virtually everyone has access to all classes within that program level. When the student achieves the goals set in one grade, they move onto the next. There'd not be much incentive to have other than what the school system offered. School records downloadable to DVD or some other media and available upon demand. Classroom interactions recorded in 1's and 0's for posterity. A child living in the barrio has the same access to learning and research centers as the senator's son.

I don't think this will be a serious problem at this time. There are a lot of religions out there where the practitioners don't take their holiday (or holy day, what have you) so seriously. I would say the easiest thing to do is on any religious holy days to allow those who claim to be serious practitioners of the religion to have the day off. Anyone trying blatantly to take advantage will most likley reveal themselves quickly enough (either by asking for a day off on some wacky cult holy day, or by asking for days off on multiple religions). Traditional long holidays like Christmas can stay the way it is.

Dio Seijuro,

You have brought the topic back to its original purpose. I agree with you totally.

Most students take religious holidays off not for religious purposes but for social purposes. They and their families don't spend the time in church, or synagogue or temple. They spend it shopping, going to parties, relaxing at home.

The inevitable topic drift has moved this from simply religious holidays to theories of education.

Lots of good and valid points have been made. one of the most valid concerns the use of computers. Computers should be a more used tool in education. Today's students are much more comfortable with electronic and cyber media than most of us adults are. They have grown up with computers as part of their lives where we have come to them only as adults.

Computers should be used both in the classroom and at home. They should be used in the classroom for researching topics, keeping notes, writing papers, doing computations, and a host of other tasks. They should be used at home for the same things and also for keeping in touch with the school. With computers the school will no longer be bound by its walls. It can expand into the entire community, or even to the entire world.

For the present though traditional education will have to continue. It might morph into something else but that can only occur slowly not overnight. In the traditional education format the students MUST be together as a group for a specified amount of time. Traditional education follows an orderly progression from point A to point Z, passing points B through Y on the way. If students are allowed to opt out by taking their own vacations while this orderly progression is taking place they will miss certain points. If they miss points D though F the class cannot be expected to go back three points for their benefit. These points are lost.

When all students are out of class at the same time the progression stops for that period and they all pick up at the same point when they return to school.

While allowing students to plan their own vacation schedules sounds like a nice, democratic idea it is an idea that will not work given the present state of education.

The problem I would see arising here would be an even wider gap between the rich and the poor, leading to greater and greater disparity.

Kids who are smart can do the whole year's curriculum in less than 3 months when home schooled. Some of my friends home schooled until high school and they excel in the higher grades and especially in university. But they have home support. Many kids do not.

Essentially, kids would be on their own, who could track each kid. I think it would turn into a system for the rich and academically advanced.

And those that have better genes. We should smack them on the back of the head until they're as stupid as the rest of the population.

And those that have better genes. We should smack them on the back of the head until they're as stupid as the rest of the population.
Someone must have smacked me on the head because I don't know what you mean... sorry.

Most students take religious holidays off not for religious purposes but for social purposes. They and their families don't spend the time in church, or synagogue or temple. They spend it shopping, going to parties, relaxing at home.


You are on the right track frogger, and i commend you for it..

But while some people might spent time shopping and such.. the MAIN THEME behind "holiday days off" is spending time with family.. something most religious people deem as an important thing to do. THATS why the days off are given. We cant give EVERY religion their days off... it would be too hectic and kids would be missing school everyday... do you see speed limit signs in every measurment system? no.. do you see the McDonalds menu in EVERY language? no... so don't expect school systems to appease EVERY religion's holidays.. because its just not possible... you have to go with the major religions and the major languages of the region...