Israel has gone too far.
They claim they on a mission to save two soldiers who were allegedly kidnapped.
The reality is that Israel has clearly gone to war and has done so without notice and without regard for the sanctity of civilian life.
It is a shame to hear Lebanese leaders calling Israel a war-machine and having to consider, after all this time of believing them a valuable and civilized ally, that characterization may be correct.
Without warning Israel invaded Lebanon.
They stated at first that they did not do it and then later, when admitting the incursion, stated that they were only there for a little while – as if that makes a difference.
The level of violence they have visited on Lebanon is startling.
The impact of their aggression has sent waves of uncertainty through financial markets around the world. Business in Europe, the United States, Japan, China and as far away as Australia has been impacted negatively.
The Israeli Air Force attacked the civilian airport in Beirut and rendered it useless.
Peaceful business people from around the world are being forced to evacuate Lebanon.
Lebanese that had begun to return home to their war ravaged nation are being driven out by their neighbors, the Israelis.
It is a heroic effort to seek out the two soldiers who were heroically kidnapped. It is a cowardly act to destroy schools, hospitals, businesses and disrupt the lives of millions of people in order to get attention.

Looks like the jews have another week to baby-kill in Lebanon ...

http://www.guardian.co.uk/israel/Story/0,,1823817,00.html

and even the children of Israel enjoy the festivities of killing innocent Lebanese ...

http://wakeupfromyourslumber.blogspot.com/2006/07/israeli-children-sign-their-missiles_18.html

Questions :
What are the names of the soldiers alleged to have been kidnapped?
Where are their pictures?
Who is accused of kidnapping them?
What is the name of the group?
Who belongs to it?
What do they want?
Which rockets were allegedly imported from Iran?
Which rockets were allegedly imported from Syria?
If the rockets came from Iran or Syria who actually made them?
In what country were they made?
If the rockets came from Iran or Syria who sold them?

I don't think Isreal have gone too far. They chose a path & one can argue if that path was the right choice, but once on that path - now is certainly not too far.

They must continue the pressure until it becomes unbearable for Hezbollah and a negotated solution changes the situation on the ground for the benefitial future in the region. Hizbollah may have some popular support but only amongst the uneducated masses, beyond that - Hizbollah has no support.

This also serves as a lesson to all countries in the ME who hate Isreal that any attack no matter how small will result in a very strong response.

Questions :
What are the names of the soldiers alleged to have been kidnapped?
Where are their pictures?
Who is accused of kidnapping them?
What is the name of the group?
Who belongs to it?
What do they want?
Which rockets were allegedly imported from Iran?
Which rockets were allegedly imported from Syria?
If the rockets came from Iran or Syria who actually made them?
In what country were they made?
If the rockets came from Iran or Syria who sold them?

Good questions but don't look for any answers until Rush and Ann get their talking points from the white house.

BTW: FWIW: Soldiers are never kidnapped ... they're captured. But what do you expect from a government full of chickenhawks that never served trying to run a war? They can't even get the terminology right.

Questions :
What are the names of the soldiers alleged to have been kidnapped?


The IDF released the names of the two soldiers on Thursday. According to the IDF Spokesperson, the two reserve are Ehud Goldwasser, 31, from Nahariya, and Eldad Regev, 26, from Kiryat Motzkin.

http://www.kptm.com/news/national/3344661.html

That was hard. :rolleyes:

I don't think Israel has gone too far.

Going by your logic, I could say that Hitler and the Nazis didn't go to far either.

Going by your logic, I could say that Hitler and the Nazis didn't go to far either.
Have the Israelis invaded all their neighbors, and had a systematic wiping out of people based on their race, religion, or lifestyle?

Israel's crimes pale in comparison to those of Nazi Germany.

Going by your logic, I could say that Hitler and the Nazis didn't go to far either.

And by your logic even getting out of bed in the morning would be going too far.

As to your analogy - I don't need to explain why it is incorrect, it's so damn obvious it would be a waste of typing.

Israel's crimes pale in comparison to those of Nazi Germany.

Still Israel's crimes are crimes, and they are mass crimes ... And by the way you just stated that they are crimes ...

Funny how people talk about Israels crimes (which are solely in the interest of self defence) yet they never even talk about the crimes of terrorist organizations like Hizbollah that have killed thousands of innocent civilians, plus they drove a truck bomb in 83 that killed 240 ish marines in Beruit (the explosion was the largest non nuclear explosion since WW2)

Funny how people talk about Israels crimes (which are solely in the interest of self defence)

This is in means of Palestinians too?

What about crimes against Israel? From what I see written here, most of these terrorist organizations get a free pass as long as they're acting against an ally or the interests of the United States.

What about crimes against Israel? From what I see written here, most of these terrorist organizations get a free pass as long as they're acting against an ally or the interests of the United States.

Are these, "interests" of the US people?, or just the "interests" of the "dominant class" living in the US, which includes Jews...

Dominant class? Lay off them weird drugs boy, they're about to make you null & void.

This is in means of Palestinians too?

Absolutely. They strap bombs on their own kids don't they?

Incidentally - that makes them worse than savages.

If the Israelis and Hezbollah wanna slug it out thats one thing,but with the weapons technology at the Israelis disposal,theres absolutly no excuse for the destruction of Lebanon and the killing of hundreds of civilians.
I dontgive a shit if Hezbollah have bunkers under schools,hospitals whatever,these people have to come out sometime,then they can get them.

Absolutely. They strap bombs on their own kids don't they?

Incidentally - that makes them worse than savages.

And what about Israel....their discriminatory policies which include killing and innocent Palestinians and taking innocent Palestnians as prisoners....This happened to my uncle recently, who was going to fly to America for his son's wedding. Israel gave him two choices: He can go to America, and never come back. Or he can be put into jail? My uncle chose the jail...:confused: Tell me what he did?

Why don't you tell us what he was accused of?

Nothing....which is my point. They just thought he would choose to go to America instead of going to jail.

????????????????????????????????

OK, Pinocchio, it's your story. Tell it any way you want to.

OK, Pinocchio, it's your story. Tell it any way you want to.

You can call me a liar all you want, It's just sad that you don't face the reality of what is really going on in Israel and Palestine.

If the shoe fits ...

If the shoe fits ...

So you call me a liar instead of telling me why he was arrested and thrown into jail...To add on, he was also arrested with a Newark police officer. So far, they have spent a week in an Israli prison.

"So you call me a liar instead of telling me why he was arrested and thrown into jail..."

My crystal ball is cloudy

Nice quips but nothing I've seen inside a fortune cookie.

And what about Israel....their discriminatory policies which include killing and innocent Palestinians and taking innocent Palestnians as prisoners....This happened to my uncle recently, who was going to fly to America for his son's wedding. Israel gave him two choices: He can go to America, and never come back. Or he can be put into jail? My uncle chose the jail...:confused: Tell me what he did?

There is a difference, a huge one, between the accidental. killing of civilians and strapping on bombs to purposely kill civilians, or firing rockets at cities to kill civilians. If you can't see the difference you are blind.

And as for your uncle, don't ask me what he did, ask your uncle. I am sure he did something.

Killing hundreds of civilians in Lebanon isnt accidental.

Killing hundreds of civilians in Lebanon isnt accidental.

Yes it is. They were not targetted. If Israel were targetting civilians the death toll would be over 50,000 not 350

What isn't accidental is when a terrorist group like Hizbollah straps bombs onto a kid and sends them into a market, or drives a truck filled with TNT into a building filled with 300 people.

There is a huge difference and it is sad that people like yourself give terrorists a "pass" and focus their attention only on the group actually not trying to kill civilians.

Israel is trying to destroy a terrorist group - Hizbollah, that is their mission, not the death of civilians. The mission of Hizbollah is the death of civilians.

No it isnt.Im not suggesting Israel is targeting civilians,as you quite rightly say,the deathtoll would run into thousands.What I am claiming,is that the Israeli simply dont give a shit if civilians get in the way or not,as long as their objectives are met,fuck everybody else.
As for Hezbollah sending out kids on suicide missions,Ive always been under the impression these bombers were volunteers.
Ive no love for Hezbollah,what they do to Israeli civilians is disgraceful.
You claimed earlier that Israel is a modern western country,that being the case,they shoud act like one,and not draw themselves down to their enemys level.

No it isnt.Im not suggesting Israel is targeting civilians,as you quite rightly say,the deathtoll would run into thousands.What I am claiming,is that the Israeli simply dont give a shit if civilians get in the way or not,as long as their objectives are met,fuck everybody else.
As for Hezbollah sending out kids on suicide missions,Ive always been under the impression these bombers were volunteers.
Ive no love for Hezbollah,what they do to Israeli civilians is disgraceful.
You claimed earlier that Israel is a modern western country,that being the case,they shoud act like one,and not draw themselves down to their enemys level.

If Isreal didn't give a shit about civilians they wouldn't use precision munitions and they wouldn't be dropping leaflets to tell civilians where they are going to bomb.

Your point is kind of meaningless - the only logical conclusion to your point is that Israel should do nothing, in fact they should disband their military because whatever they do with it can't be justified if civilians get killed.

"I will take a bomb and put it on me ... and explode it if I could find any Israeli. I would explode it and kill myself and them." He gestured as if stuffing a bomb inside his sweat-stained shirt. "I am not a terrorist, but today if I could, I would blow myself up. It is enough. I want to be a bomb. Israel comes with airplanes and tons of explosives. I want to say to (U.N. Secretary-General) Kofi Annan. Enough!"

http://news.yahoo.com/s/ap/20060722/ap_on_re_mi_ea/mideast_fighting_flight_to_syria

FOX news just straightened things out for it's viewers ...

When Lebanon kills Israelis, it's a war crime.

When Israel kills Lebanese, it's not a war crime.

"I will take a bomb and put it on me ... and explode it if I could find any Israeli. I would explode it and kill myself and them." He gestured as if stuffing a bomb inside his sweat-stained shirt. "I am not a terrorist, but today if I could, I would blow myself up. It is enough. I want to be a bomb. Israel comes with airplanes and tons of explosives. I want to say to (U.N. Secretary-General) Kofi Annan. Enough!"

http://news.yahoo.com/s/ap/20060722/ap_on_re_mi_ea/mideast_fighting_flight_to_syria

Hezbollah bombs Israel and everybody is happy but when Israel bombs Hezbollah it is crying time. How stupid can a Hebollah be to bomb a stronger country and keep bombing them. Dumb!!

Rice pudding for brains.

If Isreal didn't give a shit about civilians they wouldn't use precision munitions and they wouldn't be dropping leaflets to tell civilians where they are going to bomb.

Your point is kind of meaningless - the only logical conclusion to your point is that Israel should do nothing, in fact they should disband their military because whatever they do with it can't be justified if civilians get killed.
Obviously their 'precision' munitions are working perfectly,I said they didnt care if civilians get in the way,as for the leaflets,propaganda exercise,nothing more,you are right on one score,military operations of this nature are meaningless.

When Lebanon kills Israelis, it's a war crime.
It is Hezbolllah versus Israel, Lebanon is the battlefield, but not a combatant.

When Israel kills Lebanese, it's not a war crime.
If you've got any evidence that Israel is indiscriminately and purposefully dropping some of their bombs on Lebanese civilians, do share it.

It is Hezbolllah versus Israel, Lebanon is the battlefield, but not a combatant.


If you've got any evidence that Israel is indiscriminately and purposefully dropping some of their bombs on Lebanese civilians, do share it.

300+ Lebanese civilians dead ... is that enough proof?

http://www.cnn.com/2006/WORLD/meast/07/22/mideast/index.html

300+ Lebanese civilians dead ... is that enough proof?

No it isn't.

Newsflash - in a war civilians get killed. In ww2 millions got killed - now with precision munitions the death toll is small. Of course any civilian death is a tradgedy.

What I don't comprehend though is why you people automatically come down on Israel. You don't offer any solutions, any alternatives. The only solution you seem to have is let terrorists do whatever they want.

Perhaps Dop, FT, 500lb etc - you should go join Hezbollah if you love them so much

No it isn't.

Newsflash - in a war civilians get killed. In ww2 millions got killed - now with precision munitions the death toll is small. Of course any civilian death is a tradgedy.

What I don't comprehend though is why you people automatically come down on Israel. You don't offer any solutions, any alternatives. The only solution you seem to have is let terrorists do whatever they want.

Perhaps Dop, FT, 500lb etc - you should go join Hezbollah if you love them so much

I'm glad you didn't add me to that list...It's not about letting the terrorists do whatever they want...It's about stopping Israel from killing innocent civilians in Lebanon and Palestine. Israeli's aggression towards the Lebanese was completly out of hand...they should have negotiated the release if they had really cared for the two Israeli soldiers that were kidnapped...You don't see America bombing Haiti after an American was kidnapped. They negotiate unlike Israel who destroys a whole country when they could have easily negotiated the release of the two soldiers who were kidnapped. It's that way Israel approached the situation that bothered us most. Also their discriminatory policies towards Palestinians...

If Haiti entered the US and kidnapped an american and started to fire rockets at the US you wouldn't see much negotiating. All you would see was F16's dropping bombs.

Why should Israel negotiate with terrorists? No country in the world would negotiate with terrorists. Why should Israel?

If Haiti entered the US and kidnapped an american and started to fire rockets at the US you wouldn't see much negotiating. All you would see was F16's dropping bombs.

Why should Israel negotiate with terrorists? No country in the world would negotiate with terrorists. Why should Israel?


They have done it before. And it ended it quickly. Plus the prisoners Hezbollah want are innocent or at least most of them...

Plus the prisoners Hezbollah want are innocent or at least most of them...

Says you & who are you exactly?

The fact that many of the prisoners they want to free have yet to have a trial. The idea that innocent until proven guilty comes to mind. But when it comes to Israel their idea is somewhat different. It's more like you're guilty because I say you're guilty.

Well I don't know anything about those prisoners, but if you are right I agree with you.

That doesn't change anything though regarding what is happening right now in Lebanon.

I don't agree with what Israeli is doing but what else can they do? Hezbollah is deeply rooted throughout Lebannon. They're firing rockets and kidnapping troops they had to do something and the only real way is to take out Lebannon.

I don't agree with what Israeli is doing but what else can they do? Hezbollah is deeply rooted throughout Lebannon. They're firing rockets and kidnapping troops they had to do something and the only real way is to take out Lebannon.

Is it really Lebanon, when it is occupied by Hezbollah? It seems like two seperate states to me. France is in the early stages of occupation by Islamics as there are Islamic parts of France where the French police don't go.

Cmon 'reb',for a start,I dont think theres any street in France,the cops wouldnt venture into,as for Lebanon,it is a sovernign state,which cannot control all its territory,parts of it have been taken over by extremeists,all of whom are Lebanonese.
If the warmongers in Jerusalem had targeted individuals in Lebanon on a very select basis,most of the world wouldnt have taken much notice.The fact they have destroyed an entire nations infastructure and killed hundreds of civilians,makes this operation bound to failure.
All they achieved is to isolate themselves further,not only in the region,but globally,and has been the best recruiting incident for Hezbollah in twenty years,its easy seen that the new Israeli PM wasnt a military man.

How to Create a "Terrorist"

-Take a happily married man with a couple of kids, a comfortable house, and a reasonable job.
-Drop a bomb on his house while he is at work.
-Tell this man his wife and kids are dead.
-Let him see what remains of his house and family.
-Bomb his workplace.
-Destroy the infrastructure around him.
-Give him some time to contemplate the circumstances of his life.
-"Terrorist" created.

The "War on Terror", by its design, will exponentially create "terrorists".
Think about it.
http://www.whatreallyhappened.com/terrorist2.html

If Isreal didn't give a shit about civilians they wouldn't use precision munitions and they wouldn't be dropping leaflets to tell civilians where they are going to bomb.
http://img95.imageshack.us/img95/7849/smartbombsaq0.jpg
"Dear civilians leave the city or we will kill you. PS. we already bombs the roads out of town..."

How to Create a "Terrorist"

-Take a happily married man with a couple of kids, a comfortable house, and a reasonable job.
-Drop a bomb on his house while he is at work.
-Tell this man his wife and kids are dead.
-Let him see what remains of his house and family.
-Bomb his workplace.
-Destroy the infrastructure around him.
-Give him some time to contemplate the circumstances of his life.
-"Terrorist" created.

So what? None of that changes the fact that Israel have a right to defend themselves & destroy Hezbollah.

Unlike the US in Iraq which is a "terrorist factory" without any good reason, this action in Lebanon has very good reason.

Your points 500lb are all aimed at the heartstrings - they aren't worth a shit when it comes to actually reality. Your pussy views are pretty much worthless because they have no logical conclusion beyond letting terrorists do whatever they want.

Hezbollah killed 241 Marines in Lebanon in 83', they've hijacked planes, killed Americans at the Khobar Towers in Saudi Arabia and the U.S. Embassy in Lebanon, bombed major Jewish centers in Argentina, tortured and killed the CIA chief in Lebanon, just to mention a few of their activities. Up until 9-11 they had killed more Americans than any other terrorist group. Israel is going full bore at taking out this group. They must succeed otherwise the winners will be Iran & Syria.

DrewM seems pretty content with the deaths of civilians - death in general it seems.

All I want to know is where the rockets and their components came from. They didn't build them on kitchen tables with spoons and forks.

DrewM seems pretty content with the deaths of civilians - death in general it seems.

All I want to know is where the rockets and their components came from. They didn't build them on kitchen tables with spoons and forks.

I'm not content with it, but I have the common sense to know that if you start a military campaign you can't run back crying after the 1st death.

They get the rockets from Iran - they are all Iranian made, shipped through syria

No it isn't.
Perhaps Dop, FT, 500lb etc - you should go join Hezbollah if you love them so much

I would expect that remark from Rush, Ann, Sean and FOX news but not from you.

So, in your opinion, anyone with a dissenting view against Israel's behaviour is a terrorist?

No, but people who focus 99.99% on Isreal and never critize actual terrorists have their views all mixed up.

How to Create a "Terrorist"





Swedish Radio News (SRN) reported today that a Stockholm mosque is selling cassettes calling for a genocidal holy war against the Jews. According to SRN, the cover of one of the cassettes shows a picture of the Statue of Liberty draped in a burning American flag.

Sales of cassettes promoting genocide are illegal in Sweden. A spokesman for the mosque blamed volunteers for stocking the mosque bookstore with the cassettes.

Of course, we knew nothing, we never saw it before, etc. etc. etc.

http://jihadwatch.org/archives/009207.php

You can buy this sort of thing in London any day,from street stalls,it happens in every big city in Europe.

You can buy this sort of thing in London any day,from street stalls,it happens in every big city in Europe.


It is so common that it is accepted but What would happen if a Synagogue was giving out tapes on genocide of Muslims?

There is a double standard here.

Synagogues never give anything out [joke].
Reb anywhere ive ever been in Europe Jews dont have issues,so I cant see that happening,whereas Muslims are becoming more radical,watching their 'brothers' at war with sometimes their countrymen,ie Britain,in particular.

Your pussy views are pretty much worthless because they have no logical conclusion beyond letting terrorists do whatever they want. That right you heard it here first...If you don't kill innocent people, destroy hospitals and use chemical weapons, the terrorists win. Thats for that inciteful comment drew..

Your points 500lb are all aimed at the heartstrings - they aren't worth a shit when it comes to actually reality. right because murdering people or their families won't drive a whole bunch of new recruits to terrrorists at all...another astounding point there...
Hezbollah killed 241 Marines in Lebanon in 83', they've hijacked planes, killed Americans at the Khobar Towers in Saudi Arabia and the U.S. Embassy in Lebanon, bombed major Jewish centers in Argentina, tortured and killed the CIA chief in Lebanon, just to mention a few of their activities. Up until 9-11 they had killed more Americans than any other terrorist group. Israel is going full bore at taking out this group. They must succeed otherwise the winners will be Iran & Syria. Wow sounds like they ar trying to give their zionist couter-parts a run for the money...

Damn all these terrorist-loving, anti-semitic Israeli jews....
http://gush-shalom.org/pics/telaviv-22-7-06/

You do realize that Israel had a direct hand in creating both Hamas and Hizbbolla as a result of diporportionate use of forse and the murder of innocent civilians, yes?

Hezbollah bombs Israel and everybody is happy but when Israel bombs Hezbollah it is crying time. How stupid can a Hebollah be .....

They are not as stupid as people claiming that there is an attitude of -- ""Hezbollah bombs Israel and everybody is happy "".

Not one person has suggested ANYTHING of the kind, and you are knowingly LYING when you make such a claim.

Also, I would direct your attention to the fact that Hezbollah --in reprisal for the inhuman way that Palestinians have been treated-- kills tens, while Israel is killing hundreds.

The death toll is unbelievably lopsided --- yet we continually have to hear people here whining like Israel is somehow "the victim" and that those who oppose them are the murderous "evil" ones.

The ignorance is appalling.

They are not as stupid as people claiming that there is an attitude of -- ""Hezbollah bombs Israel and everybody is happy "".

Not one person has suggested ANYTHING of the kind, and you are knowingly LYING when you make such a claim.

Also, I would direct your attention to the fact that Hezbollah --in reprisal for the inhuman way that Palestinians have been treated-- kills tens, while Israel is killing hundreds.

The death toll is unbelievably lopsided --- yet we continually have to hear people here whining like Israel is somehow "the victim" and that those who oppose them are the murderous "evil" ones.

The ignorance is appalling.


Israel didn't ask for war, it was forced on them by racist Islamics who refuse to accept a non-muslim state in the middle east. The Jews were there when Mohammand came along and then the Jews were all driven out and now Iran and most other Muslim countries are trying to put the Jews back in the coffin.

Hezbollah starts the war and expects the world to step in when things go badly for them.

Cmon 'reb',for a start,I dont think theres any street in France,the cops wouldnt venture into,as for Lebanon,it is a sovernign state,which cannot control all its territory,parts of it have been taken over by extremeists,all of whom are Lebanonese.
If the warmongers in Jerusalem had targeted individuals in Lebanon on a very select basis,most of the world wouldnt have taken much notice.The fact they have destroyed an entire nations infastructure and killed hundreds of civilians,makes this operation bound to failure.
All they achieved is to isolate themselves further,not only in the region,but globally,and has been the best recruiting incident for Hezbollah in twenty years,its easy seen that the new Israeli PM wasnt a military man.

In France, Muslims already have many smaller states within the state. Criminologist Lucienne Bui Trong wrote that: “From 106 hot points in 1991, we went to 818 sensitive areas in 1999.” The term she used, “sensitive areas,” was used to describe Muslim no-go zones where anything representing a Western institution (post office truck, firemen, even mail order delivery firms) was routinely ambushed with Molotov cocktails. The number was 818 in 2002, when the French government decided to stop collecting the statistics.

In some of these areas, the phenomenon of gang rape “has become banal.” Violence against and pressure on women is part of daily life in the suburbs, where boys can dictate how girls should dress. Pressure is mounting for Muslim women to wear veils. In 2002, a 17-year-old girl was set alight by an 18-year-old boy as his friends stood by. The support group “Ni Putes, Ni Soumises” (”Neither Whores nor Submissives”) says the number of forced marriages has risen in recent years, with roughly 70,000 girls pressured into unwanted relationships each year in France. A leaked study conducted between October 2003 and May 2004 under the auspices of France’s inspector-general of education, Jean Pierre Obin, described an educational system where Muslim students regularly boycotted classes that concerned Voltaire, Rousseau and Moliere, whom the students accused of being anti-Islamic. Orbin’s report cited Muslim students’ refusal to use the “plus” sign in mathematics because it looks like a crucifix; Muslims boycotting class trips to churches, cathedrals and monasteries; and forcing wholesale changes in school lunch fare to accommodate their religious practices.
..
[After the French riots] some of the rioters left boasting messages on various Internet forums. “We aren’t going to let up. The French won’t do anything and soon, we will be in the majority here” One observer stated: “In France, the majority of young Muslims believe that French society is dying, committing suicide. More like 10 percent to 20 percent of them believe that they are in the process of replacing European civilization with an Islamic one.”

http://www.taoofdefiance.com/2006/07/13/fjordman-an-essay-on-the-islamization-of-europes-cities/

Who made the rockets?
Who sold them?

Five children and the cost of war


http://www.cnn.com/2006/WORLD/meast/07/23/perry.tyre/index.html

Israel didn't ask for war, it was forced on them by racist Islamics who refuse to accept a non-muslim state in the middle east. The Jews were there when Mohammand came along and then the Jews were all driven out and now Iran and most other Muslim countries are trying to put the Jews back in the coffin.

Hezbollah starts the war and expects the world to step in when things go badly for them.
Bad point reb.Thats like me saying,the Irish were in Ireland when the English were still running round Saxoney talking German,as it dosent come down to first come first served.

Why is Israel a warmonger?

To be a warmonger you have to want war

To want war you have to want to gain something

Hussain was a warmonger when he invaded Kuwait - he wanted their riches and their port

Israel wants nothing except peace & security for it's citizens. If wanting peace and security makes you a warmonger then Israel is the first such warmonger in the history of this planet.

I think its Israeli aggression thats the problem,they wanna DO Hezbollah,fine,but their armaments are so powerful,and being used indiscriminatly now,a large number of cars full of refugees were targeted yesterday,'this is the problem when you read thos propaganda leaflets,to get out',the Israeli air force have run out of targets.

Their weapons are not being used indiscriminatly - where are you getting this from? They are not targetting civilians - they are going after specific targets, pre planned & targets as they come up.

Yes, mistakes will be made - mistakes are always made, even in a precision bombing campaign. This doesn't fundamentally change the fact that Israel is doing this to protect the future of their citizens and doing whatever is within it's capability to not kill innocent civilians in Lebanon.

1 million people in N.Israel cannot work, the N of Israel is basically shut down with the people living in bomb shelters, while hundreds of rockets each with a 200lb bomb rain down indiscriminately every day. Of course Israel is going to whatever it needs to do to safe guard it's citizens. It has has primary responsibility to it's own citizens, not lebanese.

The only party indiscriminately trying kill civilians is Hezbollah. Maybe if they get lucky & kill a few hundred more Israeli's you would finally be able to view this correctly? Is that what it would take?

Well actually they are being used indiscriminatly,Im getting this from European new channels.The Israelis are now targeting civilians in Southern Lebanon.,and NO these attacks were not a mistake.3 cars trying to escape the conflict were attacked 2 times,your case had some meat if these people were hit once,but twice,is targeting,in anybodys book,apart from yours ofcourse.
By the way,as a soverign state,Israels primary responsibility when attacking its neighbours,is its neighbours civilian population.
http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/world/middle_east/5208110.stm

Well actually they are being used indiscriminatly,Im getting this from European new channels.The Israelis are now targeting civilians in Southern Lebanon.,and NO these attacks were not a mistake.3 cars trying to escape the conflict were attacked 2 times,your case had some meat if these people were hit once,but twice,is targeting,in anybodys book,apart from yours ofcourse.
By the way,as a soverign state,Israels primary responsibility when attacking its neighbours,is its neighbours civilian population.
http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/world/middle_east/5208110.stm

Many of the European newspapers are Middle East owned. When a French editor stood up for the Danish cartoons, he was fired by the Egyptian who owned the newspaper. BBC is well known for it's anti-Israel bias.

Hezbollah uses human shields so, sure civilians will be killed and attacking 3 cars doesn't constute a general policy. Israel often attacks cars with militants in them.

Well actually they are being used indiscriminatly,Im getting this from European new channels.The Israelis are now targeting civilians in Southern Lebanon.,and NO these attacks were not a mistake.3 cars trying to escape the conflict were attacked 2 times,your case had some meat if these people were hit once,but twice,is targeting,in anybodys book,apart from yours ofcourse.
By the way,as a soverign state,Israels primary responsibility when attacking its neighbours,is its neighbours civilian population.
http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/world/middle_east/5208110.stm

You base your entire view on this incident?

Just proves that you have a bias toward Hezbollah.

Of course your response will be I have a bias toward Israel - I do, because they are not terrorists & Hezbollah are.

War is always a human tradgey & I am sure if one knew the individual stories then it would be hard to deal with it would be so terrible.

How does it prove I have a bias towards Hezbollah [which I dont],
You base your entire view on IDF statements.

Many of the European newspapers are Middle East owned. When a French editor stood up for the Danish cartoons, he was fired by the Egyptian who owned the newspaper. BBC is well known for it's anti-Israel bias.

Hezbollah uses human shields so, sure civilians will be killed and attacking 3 cars doesn't constute a general policy. Israel often attacks cars with militants in them.
I wasnt aware the BBC was anti Israeli,I would have assumed it was quite the reverse.Are you suggesting all the Middle Eastern owners of European Media outlets are pro Hezbollah,now that would be news.
I dont think a 13 year old girl and her family would constitute a 'threat' to the Israeli air force.

How does it prove I have a bias towards Hezbollah [which I dont],
You base your entire view on IDF statements.

I don't base my view on ANY statements.

I presume would you acceot the BBC as 'impartial reporting'

I presume would you acceot the BBC as 'impartial reporting'

One typical example was when suicide bombers killed 26 Israeli civilians in Jerusalem and Haifa in December 2001. The BBC only used the word "terror" when describing Israel's retaliatory attacks on Palestinian targets. In another, Palestinians attacked a bus in Emmanuel, killing 10 civilians and wounding dozens. Thereupon Israel attacked a Palestinian police station without serious casualties, which the BBC reported very dramatically. The Palestinian attack was mentioned with minimal detail of its brutality.

When Asserson sent the BBC his report with the comprehensive examples of its guideline breaches, its news director denied them without providing a detailed response. Asserson conducted a second study in May-July 2002. He gave many new examples of how the BBC "only reports the Palestinian side, suppresses news stories, fails to explain Israel's mistrust of the Palestinians and uses pictures out of context."

The Iraqi war enabled Asserson to compare, in his third study, the BBC's reporting on British soldiers in Iraq and Israeli troops in the conflict with the Palestinians. He wrote: "Coalition troops are described in warm and glowing terms, with sympathy being evoked both for them as individuals and also for their military predicament. By contrast Israeli troops are painted as faceless, ruthless and brutal killers with no or little understanding shown for their actions."

Asserson illustrated how the BBC goes to considerable lengths to "explain, excuse and lessen civilian deaths at the hands of coalition troops while mitigating arguments are brushed aside or scorned if voiced at all where Israelis are concerned."

Asserson also explains how the BBC is turning from a reporting body into a news manufacturer. US President George W. Bush's speech of June 24, 2002, for example, was entitled on the White House Web site, "President Bush calls for new Palestinian leadership." Nineteen of the 28 paragraphs addressed Palestinian leadership and institutional reform. Bush said that Palestinian authorities are encouraging terrorism; Israeli policy was criticized in two or three paragraphs. The BBC was the only news body which presented the speech as criticizing Israelis and Palestinians equally.

In passing, Asserson also illustrates the anti-Israel atmosphere among BBC journalists. One, Ian Haddow, signed in his private capacity an anti-Israel e-mail petition. He added the words "save us from Israel" after his name.

http://home.comcast.net/~jat.action/BBC_bias.htm

http://www.cnn.com/2006/WORLD/meast/07/23/mideast/index.html

They continue their repugnant activity.

Are you suggesting all the Middle Eastern owners of European Media outlets are pro Hezbollah,now that would be news.
I dont think a 13 year old girl and her family would constitute a 'threat' to the Israeli air force.

You make it sound like Israel beast targeted and killed a 13 year old girl because they are devils.

Here is a French editor who was fired because the Muslims didn't like his freedom of speech.


The editor of a French newspaper that printed cartoons of the Prophet Muhammad has been sacked.

Jacques Lefranc was dismissed by the owner of France Soir

However France Soir owner Raymond Lakah, a French Egyptian, said in a statement to AFP news agency that he "decided to remove Jacques Lefranc as managing director of the publication as a powerful sign of respect for the intimate beliefs and convictions of every individual".

http://news.bbc.co.uk/2/hi/europe/4672642.stm

Reb:I would suggest to you that the BBC are only 'balanceing' things up.The media,especially your own networks do nothing but describle how bad things are for the Israelis,how they suffer 'terrorism' daily,bla bla bla.
Very rarely do they report from the other side,why,US Gov policy is the order of the day ,in Foreign Corresponding,Americans enjoy being told their side is winning,or how tough things are,but we're fighting back.

http://www.cnn.com/2006/WORLD/meast/07/23/mideast/index.html

They continue their repugnant activity.

Yes, here is the repugnant part

"More than 60 Hezbollah rockets hit northern Israel on Sunday"

As compared to the 100+ Israeli air strikes on Lebanon.

As compared to the 100+ Israeli air strikes on Lebanon.

And Israel is not supposed to fight back, just lie down and die.

Fight back,I would suggest this is an offensive operation against the state of Lebanon,I havnt heard the two kidnapped Israeli soldiers mentioned more than twice this week.

Israel is bombing the fleeing Lebanese ... war crimes.

http://www.theaustralian.news.com.au/story/0,20867,19902835-2703,00.html

Here is a French editor who was fired because the Muslims didn't like his freedom of speech.



Unfortunately for your brilliant demonstration, Raymond Lakah, the egyptian owner of France Soir, is not muslim but christian, as are many people in Middle east, including Lebanon.

About civilian casualties : I read today a very interesting interview of a french doctor working in Gaza for the NGO "Medecins du monde".
(http://www.liberation.fr/actualite/monde/195046.FR.php)

Not only he says that the israeli army does not let red cross ambulances resecue injured people, but that injuries on civilians are much worse than the usual bombing injuries and look like the consequences of high tech and deadly device such as multi-ammo fragmentation bombs that should in no case be used in civilian areas. So the question of knowing if Israel intentionally targets civilians is quite pointless.

White house asks Israel to hit Syria ...

http://www.alternet.org/blogs/video/39374

Are the Israeli-backers OK with this one too?

Israel using artillery-fired cluster munitions in populated areas

http://www.alertnet.org/thenews/newsdesk/HRW/64192d2d2372a544edcf7533fd5a16af.htm

more war crimes ...

Israel firing on ambulances ...

http://www.smh.com.au/news/world/ambulances-fired-on-by-israel-says-red-cross/2006/07/24/1153593272695.html

Still think they haven't gone too far?

I can't take anything you say seriously Dop because you never say anything negative about the actual terrorists. Hezbollah is a terrorist group, period.

Unfortunately for your brilliant demonstration, Raymond Lakah, the egyptian owner of France Soir, is not muslim but christian,


I stand corrected on that point but still the newspaper was denied freedom of speech when it offended Muslims and they are very easily offended.

I can't take anything you say seriously Dop because you never say anything negative about the actual terrorists. Hezbollah is a terrorist group, period.

I didn't say anything Drew ... my last 3 posts were all links to things other people said.

You make it sound like Israel beast targeted and killed a 13 year old girl because they are devils.

I do not know if the reason is "they are devils", but YES, Israel over the years has targeted (note; when you point your rifle and fire it into a person's back, may we agree to call that *targeting* someone?) many children. Shot them in the back. And the front. And every other conceivable angle.

As to the media coverage this conflict is receiving, as was mentioned above, it is so overwhelmingly pro-Israel that anyone who does not realize that is blinding themself to reality.

Question: How many editorials or op-ed columns have appeared in American newspapers defending the rights of Palestinian civilians to live in peace without the constant threat of being invaded or shelled by the world’s forth largest military?

None.

How many editorials or op-ed columnists have defended the Geneva Conventions or international laws against collective punishment, the willful destruction of critical infrastructure, or military maneuvers that deliberately put civilians in imminent danger?

None.

Then how many editorials or op-ed columnists have presented the recent flurry of events (including the capture of Israeli soldier Galid Shalit) in the broader context of Israel’s ongoing boycott of food and medical supplies, as well as the 50 or so Palestinian civilians who have been killed in Israel’s regular incitements in the occupied territories?

None.

The account of Palestinian suffering and victim-hood rarely finds its way into the mainstream press, but in the present case, it has been completely ignored. In fact, none of the media provide any context for the current invasion at all. Israel’s blockade of food and lethal provocations have been going on for months, and yet, the accounts from Gaza would have the reader believe that history began on the day that the Israeli soldier was captured.

Sure, if the reader wants a balanced perspective, he can go to the internet and choose from the many articles which provide the Israeli or Palestinian perspective of events, but the mainstream media? Ha, ha, ha, ha, ha.

The bias has grown into such an impenetrable cloud of pro-Israeli rubbish that it’s laughable.........The only thing in dispute is the way those facts are skewed in the American media. Pick up the New York Times and you would swear it was edited by Ariel Sharon. There’s not even an attempt at evenhandedness; just the foolish ruminations of scribes who think they can spin war crimes into hard-hitting journalism.

It’s pretty clear that Israel would never get away with its crimes against humanity if it didn’t have a trustworthy friend in the American media. The streetwalking western press gave Bush a free pass on his Iraqi bloodbath; now they’re abetting Israel in its terror-crusade in Gaza.

It’s shameful. _______Mike Whitney

Over 90% of Israeli's support this action - are they all warmongering devils too?

Over 90% of Israeli's support this action - are they all warmongering devils too?

I have not called them "devils", and as far as I know no one else has.

But the 90% --if that figure is accurate-- who are supporting the actions that the state of Israel is taking are --de facto-- supporting the murder of innocent Lebanese civilians, are they not?

I think that BOTH sides have been indoctrinated, to an incredible degree, to fear and hate the "other" side.

Unfortunately for the people of Lebanon, Israel has immensely powerful weapons of war at their disposal. Thanks to you and I, the American taxpayer.


________________________________________________

In Israeli discourse, Israel ended the occupation in Gaza when it evacuated its settlers from the Strip, and the Palestinian's behavior therefore constitutes ingratitude. But there is nothing further from reality than this description. In fact, as was already stipulated in the Disengagement Plan, Gaza remained under complete Israeli military control, operating from outside. Israel prevented any possibility of economic independence for the Strip and from the very beginning, Israel did not implement a single one of the clauses of the agreement on border-crossings of November 2005. Israel simply substituted the expensive occupation of Gaza with a cheap occupation, one which in Israel's view exempts it from the occupier's responsibility to maintain the Strip, and from concern for the welfare and the lives of its million and a half residents, as determined in the fourth Geneva convention.___Tanya Reinbart

Israel will have gone too far when their enemies cry "uncle" & they keep attacking.

I have not called them "devils", and as far as I know no one else has.

But the 90% --if that figure is accurate-- who are supporting the actions that the state of Israel is taking are --de facto-- supporting the murder of innocent Lebanese civilians, are they not?

I think that BOTH sides have been indoctrinated, to an incredible degree, to fear and hate the "other" side.

Unfortunately for the people of Lebanon, Israel has immensely powerful weapons of war at their disposal. Thanks to you and I, the American taxpayer.



Did you support the war in Afghanistan?

Israel will have gone too far when their enemies cry "uncle" & they keep attacking.

Well said. However if Israel cries uncle it will be genocide time.

Did you support the war in Afghanistan?

No. Like so many other military misadventures the gullible populace of this country has been dragged into, the Afghani war was born out of a *Reichstag fire* type of subterfuge.

Had the Bush cabal not purposely allowed the 9/11 attacks (which they had voluminous advance warning of) to go off as planned, there would have been no reason for that conflict.

As was made abundantly clear by the PNAC --whose members include virtually every Bush Administration operative--- the neo-Cons desperatly WANTED some pretext for which to start a "war" ........they wanted their "new Pearl Harbor" and they made sure they got it.

There MIGHT be a more despicable, underhanded thing that a government can perpetrate against its own ignorant populace.......but I can't think offhand of what it would be.

No. Like so many other military misadventures the gullible populace of this country has been dragged into, the Afghani war was born out of a *Reichstag fire* type of subterfuge.

Had the Bush cabal not purposely allowed the 9/11 attacks (which they had voluminous advance warning of) to go off as planned, there would have been no reason for that conflict.

As was made abundantly clear by the PNAC --whose members include virtually every Bush Administration operative--- the neo-Cons desperatly WANTED some pretext for which to start a "war" ........they wanted their "new Pearl Harbor" and they made sure they got it.

There MIGHT be a more despicable, underhanded thing that a government can perpetrate against its own ignorant populace.......but I can't think offhand of what it would be.

Well at least your cynicism is consistent & I can have some respect for that.

For those that did support the Afghanistan war & now do not support Israel, it's worth pointing out that over 10x more civilians died in Afghanistan than have so far in Lebanon. Israel is fighting a direct terrorist group on their border that is firing rockets at their cities. The US in contrast was fighting a country that allowed terrorists to stay.

I support both, but it's illogical to support one and not the other as some people I am sure do.