7 civilians dead from Israeli missile strike

http://news.yahoo.com/s/ap/20060725/ap_on_re_mi_ea/lebanon_israel

The real enemy is Saudi Arabia but the cowardly Israelis are not allowed to attack them lest your price for gasoline goes up.

Now who built, sold and paid for the rockets?

Well said. However if Israel cries uncle it will be genocide time.
If Israel cries uncle,it will be their uncle sam their calling,andhe'll come running.

An Israeli spy network arrested in Lebanon
Saturday, July 22, 2006 - 02:50 PM
BEIRUT, July 22 (SANA)

Lebanese intelligence services have arrested a spy network working for Israel since long years ago, Lebanese A-Safir daily newspaper reported Saturday.

" The confession of suspects could lead to the exposure of a number of unactive spy cells working for Israel on Lebanese soil," the paper added in an article.

The paper quoted a well-informed source as saying that activities of this spy network exceeded what Mahmoud Rafa network which already uncovered has done.

" Members of the network, using developed technologies and communication apparatuses, facilitated selection of certain goals in Beirut's southern suburb through putting signs guiding the Israeli aircrafts to those targets," the papers indicated.

" One of the prominent figures in the network confessed that Israel has put itself on the alert 4 days before arrest of the two Israeli soldiers and provided its inactive spy cells with directives and technologies regarding targeting centers and headquarters of Hizbullah party in all Lebanese territories particularly in the Beirut's southern suburb.

http://www.sana.org/eng/22/2006/07/22/50010.htm

4 days before...you hear that?!?

http://www.time.com/time/world/article/0,8599,1219325,00.html

According to this article ...

http://news.bbc.co.uk/2/hi/middle_east/5219360.stm

Israel is just warming up ... looks like genocide for southern Lebanon.

snippet ...

He said that in order to prevent casualties among Israeli soldiers battling Hezbollah militants in southern Lebanon, villages should be flattened by the Israeli air force before ground troops moved in.

He added that Israel had given the civilians of southern Lebanon ample time to quit the area and therefore anyone still remaining there could be considered a Hezbollah supporter.

"All those now in south Lebanon are terrorists who are related in some way to Hezbollah," Mr Ramon said.

Yeah genocide - bring it on.

Yeah genocide - bring it on.

Lol.... I hope that's sarcasm.

It was.

To accuse Israel of genocide is too stupid for words.

Israel claims the world has given them the green light to bomb the smithereens outta Lebanon and of course, the U.S. denies we did even though Condi Rice refuses to agree to a ceasefire.

http://news.bbc.co.uk/2/hi/middle_east/5223940.stm

Did I mention the U.S. is speeding up the delivery of the bunker busters to Israel?

The faster the bunker busters get there the better.

Seeing Hezbollah are not a threat to the US,what has you so keen on the Israelis defeating Hezbollah.

Israel is a modern democracy.

Hezbollah is a proven terrorist group that has killed hundreds of American citizens.

You use the same tone when commenting on the Palestinians,
Im not so sure Hamas has killed hundreds of Americans,
and dont forget,since day one my primary concern is 'civilians'.
If someone could suggest to me how to get rid of Hezbollah without the apalling death and destruction,Id say your onto something.
Until then Israel is a disgrace.

Hammas is a terrorist organization too - but not on the scale of Hezbollah. Hammas is limited to it's particular struggle. What struggle does Hezbollah have? Israel left lebanon 6 years ago.

There is no way to get rid of Hezbollah except to kill them. Just like there was no way to get rid of the Taliban without killing them (plus 6500 civilians too unfortuanately).

I don't like seeing civilians get killed just as much as you, but what other solution is there except to try everything you can to minimize them. If your tolerance for civilian deaths is zero then the terrorists win because they don't care a thing about civilian deaths, in fact their whole aim is to cause civilian deaths.

You use the same tone when commenting on the Palestinians,
Im not so sure Hamas has killed hundreds of Americans,
and dont forget,since day one my primary concern is 'civilians'.
If someone could suggest to me how to get rid of Hezbollah without the apalling death and destruction,Id say your onto something.
Until then Israel is a disgrace.

Why do you only mention hez attacks on israeli citizens as an afterthought, when challenged on your bias. One would have thot that such a humanitarian would object equally to such acts by both sides. Yet your primary concern seems to be about one set of civilians not both.

And you want us to beleive that you have no bias on the issue?:rolleyes:

Israel is a modern democracy.

Hezbollah is a proven terrorist group that has killed hundreds of American citizens.

There are still many american citizens trapped in Lebanon so apparently you don't care if they are killed too? And now that the UN has taken their observers out of south lebanon, there are no more witnesses. Mission accomplished.

There are still many american citizens trapped in Lebanon so apparently you don't care if they are killed too? And now that the UN has taken their observers out of south lebanon, there are no more witnesses. Mission accomplished.

Whatever Dop - you are so off the wall its a joke.

The mission will be accomplished when Hezbollah are disarmed.

Whatever Dop - you are so off the wall its a joke.

The mission will be accomplished when Hezbollah are disarmed.

I understand your frustration -- it's not easy defending what's going on.

Yeah what defense has Hezbollah got? What reason do they have to even exist? Israel pulled out lebanon 6 years ago.

Lebanon has been very badly let down,the US,Israel and their allies should have been talking[secretly] to the Lebanonese Gov long ago,so that they forced Hezbollah out,unfortunatly the US has been preoccupied in Iraq,thus we end up with the scenario were its hard nit to come to the conclusion that Israel will remove Hezbollah,whatever the cost.
The effects of their actions is to weaken and destabilise Leb even further,the amount of destruction and death in Leb only plays into the hands of Hez and its allies.
If,as suggested moments ago in the Bush/Blair speech,a UN force is sent in,whats to say they wont be attacked by Hez,escalating things further,I will agree,Leb should be Governe by the Leb Gov.but they need Israels support,which becomes ever more difficult and further away with every air strike and shell.

Should've would've - the fact is Israel left lebanon 6 years ago. Hezbollah has no reason to even exist, yet still they built up weapons and arms and rockets. Their reason to exist is to kill Israeli citizens whenever Iran gives the green light. They have no other credible reason for existance.

Clearly they have never had a single intention to disarm as per the UN resolution calling for it after Israel left Lebanon.

Isreal pulls out & what do they get?

And why is every issue in the world the problem of the US to fix. Truth is when the US gets involved people complain either way.

Why do you only mention hez attacks on israeli citizens as an afterthought, when challenged on your bias. One would have thot that such a humanitarian would object equally to such acts by both sides. Yet your primary concern seems to be about one set of civilians not both.

And you want us to beleive that you have no bias on the issue?:rolleyes:
Why,because due to the efficency of the IDF,they have become pale in comparision,Lebanon is being reduced to ribble,the deaths are counted in the hundreds,thats why.
As for Hez,no amount of military action will defeat them,they need to be removed,their attacks on Israeli civilians,is intolerable.

Th only way to get rid of Hezbollah is via force. There is no other way.

The only way to get rid of Hezbollah is via force. There is no other way.

I am sure that the feeling is mutual between Arabs and Jews... Both think that to get rid of each other there is only one way, via force. There is no other way, so you think, but I think that the only way to finally come to the discussion table is by forcing the situation from the Arab side, with a total stop of oil production. Lets see then if the two countries that support the Jews and the very Jews still think in waging war. Only then the Jews will go back to the borders of 1967. Saudi Arabia has the ball on their side of this match at this moment, and they are the ones to force them to the negociations table.

Th only way to get rid of Hezbollah is via force. There is no other way.
Tell me how you would achieve this,Israel has tried before.

I am sure that the feeling is mutual between Arabs and Jews... Both think that to get rid of each other there is only one way, via force. There is no other way, so you think, but I think that the only way to finally come to the discussion table is by forcing the situation from the Arab side, with a total stop of oil production. Lets see then if the two countries that support the Jews and the very Jews still think in waging war. Only then the Jews will go back to the borders of 1967. Saudi Arabia has the ball on their side of this match at this moment, and they are the ones to force them to the negociations table.

Don't confuse the arabs with Hezbollah. Hezbollah is a terrorist organization. You don't negotiate with terrorists. What does Hezbollah want? Why do they even exist? They have no cause beyond the destuction of Israel.

Most of the Arab world is already at peace with Israel.

There will never be peace in the mid east until Israel and the Palestinians can come to some satisfactory agreement between them.Plain and Simple.

There will never be peace in the mid east until Israel and the Palestinians can come to some satisfactory agreement between them.Plain and Simple.

I agree with that.

The real issue in the ME is Palestine. Hammas have a choice to renounce terrorism, accept Israel and negotiate a solution.

Lebanon was a resolved issue. Hezbollah have no reason to exist as an armed terrorist organization. This conflict alone just shows how negative a factor in the ME a group like Hezbollah is. They created this conflict.

I agree with that. The real issue in the ME is Palestine. Hammas have a choice to renounce terrorism, accept Israel and negotiate a solution. Lebanon was a resolved issue. Hezbollah have no reason to exist as an armed terrorist organization. This conflict alone just shows how negative a factor in the ME a group like Hezbollah is. They created this conflict.

But Israel does not want any negociation, they just want to keep the territories, so I don't think there will be a solution.
Besides Israel doesn't see any Palestinian or any Arab for that matter as an equal human being, just as the Germans didn't see them (Jews) as humans either. So the story hasn't changed except for the players... Hezbollah or any other guerrilla group exist because either the Empire or the Israelites gave birth to them with their actions. Any guerrilla movement anywhere starts because of some abuse by some oppresor.

Cause and effect....

The rockets rained down on the city,people huddled in doorways,not knowing were the next one would land.
There was fighting in the North,and South of the country.
The military were pounding enemy positions,along with air force bombing.
The Government had been armed by its superpower friend and allie,to defend itself from terrorist attacks.Meanwhile the terrorists themselves were armed by foreign powers.
Those who suffered the most were the civilians,while both sides increased their arms shipments,both sides were pawns in a bigger picture,
and still it goes on and on and on.
BBC Correspondant:







Kabul 1982.

BTW you cannot deny that the Israeli military is enagaging in terrorism, regardless of the excuses.

Their goal of getting people to reject Hezbollah by bombing them non-stop in fact is the very definition of terrorism. (see signature)

BTW you cannot deny that the Israeli military is enagaging in terrorism, regardless of the excuses.

Their goal of getting people to reject Hezbollah by bombing them non-stop in fact is the very definition of terrorism. (see signature)

I disagree with you completely. If your idea made sense I would agree with it.

Hez will accept the EU peace plan.

http://news.yahoo.com/s/ap/20060729/ap_on_re_mi_ea/mideast_fighting_peace_package_4

What will Israel do?

Holy cow -- didn't know I was in such good company ... Mel Gibson is anti-semitic ...

http://www.tmz.com/

Ya gotta love the part where he called the woman police officer "sugar tits"

BWAhahahahahahaha .....

Being reported on BBC and CNN ...

IDF kills 6 women and children in southern Lebanon.

As a side note ... IDF kills 29 in Gaza

They're good at killing ... that's for sure.

On edit: Correction -- 14 civilians were killed.

Being reported on BBC and CNN ...

IDF kills 6 women and children in southern Lebanon.

As a side note ... IDF kills 29 in Gaza

They're good at killing ... that's for sure.

On edit: Correction -- 14 civilians were killed.

Yea and so are the bums in hamas and all the other organizations. The problem is they are much better at killing civilians. Oh they are good at brainwashing youth into thinking suicide bombing actually makes them someboday. Lets not let facts get in the way of the liberal agenda here now.

Lets not let facts get in the way of the liberal agenda here now.You must not have noticed that what you were responding to were facts. Or did they just get in your way?

Welcome to allforums, btw.

You must not have noticed that what you were responding to were facts. Or did they just get in your way?

Welcome to allforums, btw.

yes those were facts too however people far too easily forget that hamas, hezbollah, etc are right up there. If your going to place blame make sure you blame both sides not just one. All sides have gone too far not just one side or the other. I am neither pro isreal or pro middle east. Simply tired of finger pointing and waiting for both to admit they are wrong. Thanks for the welcome

yes those were facts too however people far too easily forget that hamas, hezbollah, etc are right up there. If your going to place blame make sure you blame both sides not just one. All sides have gone too far not just one side or the other. I am neither pro isreal or pro middle east. Simply tired of finger pointing and waiting for both to admit they are wrong. Thanks for the welcome

I think you mean pro palestinian not pro middle east.

I think you mean pro palestinian not pro middle east.


Sort of but not other countries are being drug in. No longer just an israeli-palestine conflict at this time. That is the heart of the matter however now its more or less the middle east.

Yea and so are the bums in hamas and all the other organizations. The problem is they are much better at killing civilians. Oh they are good at brainwashing youth into thinking suicide bombing actually makes them someboday. Lets not let facts get in the way of the liberal agenda here now.

You are correct that hamas, hezbolla, et al are pretty good at killing, probably the scum of the earth and need to be dealt with -- but that doesn't erase the dozens of civilians that were killed today and you could have left off the appendage about liberal agenda and made your point with the same impact.

I thought we got rid of all the bums when the dodgers moved to LA :D

Welcome to allforums.

Sort of but not other countries are being drug in. No longer just an israeli-palestine conflict at this time. That is the heart of the matter however now its more or less the middle east. Perhaps you mean anti-religious fundamentalism and pro-human. Lets not forget that Hezbollah is made of radical islamists and Israel of radical zionist jews. Both exploit religion for their own ends.

The known Lebanese death count is now 828 with many to still be identified so this number will grow.

http://www.news24.com/News24/World/Middle_East/0,,2-10-2075_1976651,00.html

War crimes.

It now appears that the military had no information on rockets launched from the site of the building, or the presence of Hezbollah men at the time.

The Israel Defense Forces had said after the deadly air-strike that many rockets had been launched from Qana. However, it changed its version on Monday.

The site was included in an IAF plan to strike at several buildings in proximity to a previous launching site. Similar strikes were carried out in the past. However, there were no rocket launches from Qana on the day of the strike.

http://www.haaretz.com/hasen/spages/745185.html

However, it changed its version on Monday.

Of course.

They murdered people, and now they're trying to escape being held responsible.

They needn't worry. They'll simply play the good old ""Anti-Semitism!!"" card on anyone who complains or criticizes them and go on their merry fucking way, to kill a few hundred more.

They have the Corporate-owned rightwing US media firmly on their side,.....and as an added bonus to the incredible Media bias (but then, perhaps I should say "as a result of the incredible Media bias"........but I digress) there are multitudes of useful idiots in this country who will make endless excuses for their acts.

Israel will occupy southern Lebanon.

http://www.jpost.com/servlet/Satellite?cid=1153292054929&pagename=JPost%2FJPArticle%2FShowFull

Never a doubt why Israel invaded Lebanon -- to grab the land and the Litani river resourses. Settlements are next, count on it.

Israel continues on the right track.

The more they destroy Hezbollah the better.

The IDF killed 19 civilians while trying to take that hospital -- 4 of them were children.

how come NO criticism of hezbollah from the left? they target civilians almost exclusivly and then hide their weapons and themselves anmong civilians. Should hezbollah be immunized form Israeli attacked based on their coward tactics of hinding behind women and children? The problem is you cant have a war with two sets of rules. one set for the israelis, one set for hezbollah. When israel accientally kills civilians ther is outrage, but no one seems to care that hezbollah actually targets random cities in israel with dumb rocket attacks. somehow the islamists have masterfully gotten themselves a pass form criticism in whom they choose to target while israle is held to the highest standards of warfare.

when everyone on your side is technically a civilian, as is the case with hezbollah, its easy to say that israel killed lots of civilians. becasue if they kill ten Hez fighters, all you have to do is remove the weapons and snap a photo, and bingo, you got ten dead civilians killed by the evil jews.

it is sad that the hezbollah use civilians the way they do. the way I see it, israel has no choice. they cant sacafice thier own civilians to save those being used to shield the terorrists. its a sad state of affairs.

It doesn't have to do with Lebanon per se, but it does make one reconsider his/her stance regarding Isreal:
http://wakeupfromyourslumber.blogspot.com/2006/08/some-context-to-counter-israeli.html

It doesn't make me change my stance.

When the Palestinians stop sending their kids into Israel with bombs strapped to them, and renounce violence & accept Israel, they will have peace. Nothing will ever make me change my opinion on that - until that point I don't care how repressed the Palestinians are - their leaders bring it on their people. They have a democratic process, they should choose leaders that want peace (like Abbas) instead of terrorist groups like Hamas. There is no solution other than to renounce violence & suicide bombers & to accept Israel. Truth is the Palestinians need Israel - they are poor beyond poor & without handouts or employment from Israel they have nothing.

No news is balanced, for that go to google news and read news from across the world. Fox is biased, CNN is pretty fair at presenting it from both sides to a degree. News in the ME is far more biased because it reports far more lies without expert questioning of them and puts them on endless recycle.

When the Palestinians stop sending their kids into Israel with bombs strapped to them, and renounce violence & accept Israel, they will have peace. Nothing will ever make me change my opinion on that - until that point I don't care how repressed the Palestinians are - their leaders bring it on their people. They have a democratic process, they should choose leaders that want peace (like Abbas) instead of terrorist groups like Hamas. There is no solution other than to renounce violence & suicide bombers & to accept Israel. Truth is the Palestinians need Israel - they are poor beyond poor & without handouts or employment from Israel they have nothing. But of course you don't demand that Israel stop bombing and terrorizing Palestinians...I'm sure that will go over real well....

Fox is biased, CNN is pretty fair at presenting it from both sides to a degree. News in the ME is far more biased because it reports far more lies without expert questioning of them and puts them on endless recycle. Fox news presented an 'apocolytical preacher' as a 'middles east expert' the other day..

to you anyone who believes in the sky fairy is an apocolyptic preacher so whaterver

But of course you don't demand that Israel stop bombing and terrorizing Palestinians

The fate of the Palestinians is in their own hands. They can have a state or they can have nothing but oppression. Their choice.

So long as the Palestinians use suicide bombers - they have no rights & whatever treatment they get from Israel is just reward. Truth be told Israel is far too nice to the Palestinians in response to suicide bombings.

Drew - "all palestinians are guilty for the crimes of a few"
Truth be told Israel is far too nice to the Palestinians in response to suicide bombings. Yeah and hitler was far too nice to the Jews in response to their bombings right Drew?...

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Jewish_resistance_movement

Israel is using human sheilds (but its ok when they do it right drew...):

http://news.bbc.co.uk/2/hi/middle_east/5212870.stm

Israel is using human sheilds (but its ok when they do it right drew...):

http://news.bbc.co.uk/2/hi/middle_east/5212870.stm

Don't you mean they've been accused of doing it?

Drew - "all palestinians are guilty for the crimes of a few"

I didn't say any such thing, but their leaders are guilty of selling the Palestinians down the river. How many times have they been offered a state now? I think it's at least 5 times & at each stage they haven't taken the deal. The last offer was the best chance they have ever had to have a state.

As for Human shields - how could Israel be using human shields? what do they have civilians strapped to their tanks?

And on the subject of civilians - remember, when Lebanese civilians get killed people in Israel mourn for them, when Israeli's get killed - Hezbollah rejoices.

Looks like Israel wanted out ...

http://www.ynetnews.com/articles/0,7340,L-3286070,00.html

Israel kills 25 farm workers in Lebanon ...

http://www.alertnet.org/thenews/newsdesk/L04814952.htm

To read this thread one wonders what the loony left, as exhibited in this forum, have come to. It's kafkaesque.

You have a group of people, hez, who call for the extermination of a people and state. Whose primary supporters, iran, call for the same. Whose kindred spirits in the ME call for the same. This group of people run theocratic tyrannies that suppress different religions, that won't acknowledge the notion of human rights except insofar as it furthers their own position, that suppress women's rights, that support the use and abuse of women, that oppress homosexuals..... and the list goes on and on and on and......basically the complete antithesis of everything for which you supposedly stand.:confused:

And the loony left think these people are worth rooting for? That's sad. You guys are pretty fucked up. I think that at heart you're full of shit. You don't stand for any of those principles. The only thing consistent in all your rants whether on this subject or any other is that the US/West is always wrong.

To read this thread one wonders what the loony left, as exhibited in this forum, have come to. It's kafkaesque.

You have a group of people, hez, who call for the extermination of a people and state. Whose primary supporters, iran, call for the same. Whose kindred spirits in the ME call for the same. This group of people run theocratic tyrannies that suppress different religions, that won't acknowledge the notion of human rights except insofar as it furthers their own position, that suppress women's rights, that support the use and abuse of women, that oppress homosexuals..... and the list goes on and on and on and......basically the complete antithesis of everything for which you supposedly stand.:confused:

And the loony left think these people are worth rooting for? That's sad. You guys are pretty fucked up. I think that at heart you're full of shit. You don't stand for any of those principles. The only thing consistent in all your rants whether on this subject or any other is that the US/West is always wrong.


2 things waldo ... where are these posts that show the left rooting for Hez and where is the evidence that Iran called for the extermination of a people and a state?

2 things waldo ... where are these posts that show the left rooting for Hez and where is the evidence that Iran called for the extermination of a people and a state?

Come on. 500lb & FT and yourself to a lesser degree are all pro-Hezbollah. The hatred of Israel posted on this board is shocking.

Come on. 500lb & FT and yourself to a lesser degree are all pro-Hezbollah. The hatred of Israel posted on this board is shocking.

I don't recall seeing a single post, from any poster, that could stand by itself as support for Hezbollah. Ditto that which would show an outright hatred for Israel, notwithstanding it is becoming easier and easier to dislike the Israelis given the body count from just today ...

25 farmers
33 in a warehouse
50+ in a building

If these numbers are true, Israel is out of control -- even you have to admit that.

On edit: Let me toss in a bit of good news ... looks like they nailed the serial shooters in Phoenix. One down -- one to go.

Oh Hell, Let Isreal turn Lebanon into a parking lot for Jews.

This group of people run theocratic tyrannies that suppress different religions, that won't acknowledge the notion of human rights except insofar as it furthers their own position, that suppress women's rights, that support the use and abuse of women, that oppress homosexuals..... and the list goes on and on and on and......basically the complete antithesis of everything for which you supposedly stand. Not pro-Hez but anti-Israel. BTW Israel is a Theocratic tyranny that oppresses homosexuals and has no notion of human rights as well...but then again we know you have no problem with those things so I can't try to shame you with them.

Israels "precision" carpet bombing of beruit...
http://news.yahoo.com/photo/060803/481/0d4bf4975624426492174d021ada116f&g=events/wl/080601mideast;_ylt=AnFfcQZNXNyvOPMSkWlBs5EUewgF;_y lu=X3oDMTA3bGk2OHYzBHNlYwN0bXA

Israels real motive:
It's about annexation, stupid!
By Kaveh L Afrasiabi

Officially, Israel's ground invasion of Lebanon is an act of self-defense against Hezbollah's threat, aimed at creating a security buffer zone until the arrival of a "multinational force with an enforcement capability". But increasingly, as the initial goal of a narrow strip of only a few kilometers has now been extended up to the Litani River deep in Lebanon, the real motives behind Israel's invasion are becoming crystal-clear.
http://www.atimes.com/atimes/Middle_East/HH05Ak01.html

Just when Israel needs another destraction/motive for their mass murder:
Police brace for clashes in Jerusalem over shrine visit
http://news.yahoo.com/s/afp/20060802/wl_mideast_afp/mideastisraeljerusalem

Imagine Israel with B-52's.

Come on. 500lb & FT and yourself to a lesser degree are all pro-Hezbollah. The hatred of Israel posted on this board is shocking.
Hatred of Israel does not equal being "pro-Hezbollah." FT has stated the "terrorism on both sides is despicable", 500 and Dop have stated they are against Israel due to the oppression and/or killing of innocent people. Painting them as pro-terrorist (when you, using reason, can see that is false) gets you nowhere in this argument.

If the opposition is still firing, Israel hasn't gone far enough. They need to have a decisive victory over their opponents to negate the possibility of this occuring again in the near future. Don't leave the opposition enough to even think about starting up again. Ugly as it may sound, that's the idea of war. Hit the other enough to make them know they need not come back for another ass-whuppin.

Hatred of Israel does not equal being "pro-Hezbollah." FT has stated the "terrorism on both sides is despicable", 500 and Dop have stated they are against Israel due to the oppression and/or killing of innocent people. Painting them as pro-terrorist (when you, using reason, can see that is false) gets you nowhere in this argument.

Yeah he says that just to cover his bases, but anybody would have to be a dumbass to not see the reality of where his allegance lies. 500lb even went so far as to say 9-11 was justified.

You are either for the elimination of terrorists or you are not.

You are either for the elimination of terrorists or you are not.
You are either with us or against us!

Don't make me laugh, Drew.

You are either with us or against us!

Don't make me laugh, Drew.

Why laugh - it happens to be basically a truism.

2 things waldo ... where are these posts that show the left rooting for Hez and where is the evidence that Iran called for the extermination of a people and a state?

NO you're too sly for that.

But riddle me this. If you were truly opposed to hez then one would expect to see at least an equal number of posts wouldn't we. But we don't, do we! In fact if we were to count the number of posts condemning israel vs. the number of posts condemning hez it would be a landslide wouldn't it. Why dont' we see an equal number (or even some) condenming hez.

The proof lies in what isn't said. That you can only condemn israel speaks volumes. That you can't bring yourself to admit or even discuss what hez stands for shouts from the mountaintops.

In your morally addled world people who attack civilians with the intent to kill, wound, maim them while hiding behind other civilians are somehow morally superior or worthy of support over those who would defend themselves. That one group of people would would exploit, endanger, and sacrifice their own fellow citizens (even those who don't support them) is more worthy of support than those who would defend themselves against such depravity says more about your own morality than anything i or anyone else could say. Your intellectual and moral postions are exposed like an actor in a darkend theatre under the glare of the spotlight and it isn't pretty. Very simply, you're full of shit arent' you.

Quite frankly you and non and 1/4 lber and paul and the rest of your pernicious ilk are intellectual frauds. You'll jump at the chance to join any cause that appears to give support to your anti-colonial, anti-imperialist view of the world. Even if it means jettisoning your principles. Your principles (or should we call them your shadow principles because they disappear when the sun comes out) are mere handbags to your actual beliefs (or are they mutable too?). Is there anything you wouldn't sell your soul for?


Iran and ahdminejada and destruction. Have you perchance been on a bender for the last six months? Living under a rock?

Not pro-Hez but anti-Israel. BTW Israel is a Theocratic tyranny that oppresses homosexuals and has no notion of human rights as well...but then again we know you have no problem with those things so I can't try to shame you with them.

The old moral equivalence argument rears its ugly head again. Spare us your hypocrisy.
Are you really going to tell us that there is no diffence between the two? That you would be happier to live in world ruled by hez than a world ruled by israel.
Tell us, which of the two societies more closely comports with your own alledged beleifs.

That you can't/won't distinguish between the two indicates your suffering from intellectual sclerosis.

Why laugh - it happens to be basically a truism.

Only if you believe that the two sides in any conflict are 100% right and 100% wrong. Reality doesn't work that way.

NO you're too sly for that.

But riddle me this. If you were truly opposed to hez then one would expect to see at least an equal number of posts wouldn't we. But we don't, do we! In fact if we were to count the number of posts condemning israel vs. the number of posts condemning hez it would be a landslide wouldn't it. Why dont' we see an equal number (or even some) condenming hez.

The proof lies in what isn't said. That you can only condemn israel speaks volumes. That you can't bring yourself to admit or even discuss what hez stands for shouts from the mountaintops.

Why do you feel it's neccessary to state the obvious? You'd have to be a complete moron not to believe that what Hezbollah is doing is wrong. Unless you have some sort of long-term memory problem it shouldn't be neccessary for this to be repeated, or even stated. It's obvious, and your contention that because there aren't an equal number of posts denouncing Hezbollah's atrocities, that this somehow is a point in itself, is an incredibly pathetic argument.


In your morally addled world people who attack civilians with the intent to kill, wound, maim them while hiding behind other civilians are somehow morally superior or worthy of support over those who would defend themselves. That one group of people would would exploit, endanger, and sacrifice their own fellow citizens (even those who don't support them) is more worthy of support than those who would defend themselves against such depravity says more about your own morality than anything i or anyone else could say. Your intellectual and moral postions are exposed like an actor in a darkend theatre under the glare of the spotlight and it isn't pretty. Very simply, you're full of shit arent' you.

You're just as full of shit for suggesting that anyone here has said anything of the kind.


Quite frankly you and non and 1/4 lber and paul and the rest of your pernicious ilk are intellectual frauds.

At least we don't have to construct strawmen to beat up to convince ourselves of our intellectual superiority. Try debating the topic instead of manufacturing ridiculous arguments to attack.

NO you're too sly for that.

But riddle me this. If you were truly opposed to hez then one would expect to see at least an equal number of posts wouldn't we. But we don't, do we! In fact if we were to count the number of posts condemning israel vs. the number of posts condemning hez it would be a landslide wouldn't it. Why dont' we see an equal number (or even some) condenming hez.

The proof lies in what isn't said. That you can only condemn israel speaks volumes. That you can't bring yourself to admit or even discuss what hez stands for shouts from the mountaintops.

In your morally addled world people who attack civilians with the intent to kill, wound, maim them while hiding behind other civilians are somehow morally superior or worthy of support over those who would defend themselves. That one group of people would would exploit, endanger, and sacrifice their own fellow citizens (even those who don't support them) is more worthy of support than those who would defend themselves against such depravity says more about your own morality than anything i or anyone else could say. Your intellectual and moral postions are exposed like an actor in a darkend theatre under the glare of the spotlight and it isn't pretty. Very simply, you're full of shit arent' you.

Quite frankly you and non and 1/4 lber and paul and the rest of your pernicious ilk are intellectual frauds. You'll jump at the chance to join any cause that appears to give support to your anti-colonial, anti-imperialist view of the world. Even if it means jettisoning your principles. Your principles (or should we call them your shadow principles because they disappear when the sun comes out) are mere handbags to your actual beliefs (or are they mutable too?). Is there anything you wouldn't sell your soul for?


Iran and ahdminejada and destruction. Have you perchance been on a bender for the last six months? Living under a rock?

I've stated many times Waldo that I am against all killing. In this case, I pick on the IDF more than Hez just because of the lopsided death totals, the special treatment that Israel gets from the U.S. and the fact I hate most ... my taxes are paying for the bombs to kill the innocent Lebanese and I have no say in the matter. Plus my taxes will be used to rebuild both Lebanon and Israel. Not in my name.

And NO, I haven't been on a bender although I did enjoy your choice or words on that one ... and I haven't been living in a cave ... but I did stay at a Holiday Inn Express last night. :)

Actually I've been surfing at Salmon Creek and in my spare time I'm collecting and packing up books and magazines for the vets at the veterans hospitals in Phoenix, LA and Long Beach.

BTW: Your writing is getting better all the time and it's enjoyable to read ... even if it is a knock on me. Oh, and watch that ending sentences with a preposition. Not considered grammatically correct unless you play real games with the object of the preposition. :D

Have a good one dude.

Why laugh - it happens to be basically a truism. Its spelled f-a-l-l-a-c-y ... not t-r-u-i-s-m

Why do you feel it's neccessary to state the obvious? You'd have to be a complete moron not to believe that what Hezbollah is doing is wrong. Unless you have some sort of long-term memory problem it shouldn't be neccessary for this to be repeated, or even stated. It's obvious, and your contention that because there aren't an equal number of posts denouncing Hezbollah's atrocities, that this somehow is a point in itself, is an incredibly pathetic argument.

It's necessary to state the obvious because apparently there are some complete morons present. While you and i would agree would agree on hez i'd bet even money that we could run a poll in here on who is responsible for 'civilian' casualties and the result would be split.
Furthermore if it is so obvious then your comments would better apply to those bemoaning the 'civilian' casualties. The fact that they continue to highlight the casualties speaks to what they truly think.



You're just as full of shit for suggesting that anyone here has said anything of the kind.

Better read it again. I never said that anyone had said it. i highlighted what is really going on. People seem to have forgotten what hez are about.

This is really very simple, elemental. There is a good and a bad at work here. Anyone who thinks hez are a benign force in the ME need to give their head a shake. The supposed reason for hez' existence passed more than six years ago. The fact that they are still around and the source of the current conflict reminds us as to what they are really about.

I've stated many times Waldo that I am against all killing. In this case, I pick on the IDF more than Hez just because of the lopsided death totals, the special treatment that Israel gets from the U.S. and the fact I hate most ... my taxes are paying for the bombs to kill the innocent Lebanese and I have no say in the matter. Plus my taxes will be used to rebuild both Lebanon and Israel. Not in my name.

And NO, I haven't been on a bender although I did enjoy your choice or words on that one ... and I haven't been living in a cave ... but I did stay at a Holiday Inn Express last night. :)

Actually I've been surfing at Salmon Creek and in my spare time I'm collecting and packing up books and magazines for the vets at the veterans hospitals in Phoenix, LA and Long Beach.

BTW: Your writing is getting better all the time and it's enjoyable to read ... even if it is a knock on me. Oh, and watch that ending sentences with a preposition. Not considered grammatically correct unless you play real games with the object of the preposition. :D

Have a good one dude.

The lop-sided totals have more to do with hez' tactics than lack of israeli discrimination. If israel truly didn't care about the civilian casualties the numbers could easily be 100x tmes what they are. If you really cared about the civilian casualites you'd be condemning hez' for launching rockets, loaded with ball bearings, indiscrimantely into israeli cities, at civilian targets. That you only care about one sides civilians seems very telling.

glad you enjoy the writing, we do try to entertain.

Israeli pilots miss on purpose to protect civilians ... my kinda guys (and gals) ... good job.

http://observer.guardian.co.uk/world/story/0,,1838437,00.html

The type of link that 500lb or FT would never post because it directly contradicts their notion that Israel purposely kills civilians.

This is very different than Hez's rockets aimed at civilian areas - filled with shrapnel & ball bearings.

Israeli pilots miss on purpose to protect civilians ... my kinda guys (and gals) ... good job.
http://observer.guardian.co.uk/world/story/0,,1838437,00.html

Seems that some of them have some conscious and concerns, this is a good sign that there is after all some humanity left within some Jews, unlike some of our extremists fascist friends here at AllForums.

Between Arabs (Palestinians) and Isralites, if this notion gets known by the first, then there could be some understanding in the near future.

DrewM, Hezbolah does not have planes, does not have a military machine to fight on equal terms, and so they have to fire almost blinded.

Seems that some of them have some conscious and concerns after, this is a good sign that there is after all some humanity left within some Jews.
You are a moron.

DrewM, Hezbolah does not have planes, does not have a military machine to fight on equal terms, and so they have to fire almost blinded. Way to go asshole - defend terrorists.

moron, asshole.

And a myriad of other insults that you write to everyone that does not have your views (or should I say fascist views) on your posts, did you ever go to school?, did you ever try to learn a better English?.
You know that there are better and more altruist ways of addressing in public, since your posts are not only read by those you intend the message to, besides there are ladies around here, you know.

Way to go asshole - defend terrorists.

So if I state factually that the rockets Hezbollah is using are highly innaccurate, I'll be "defending terrorists"?

You're really reaching Drew.

So if I state factually that the rockets Hezbollah is using are highly innaccurate, I'll be "defending terrorists"?


Yes you would be if you posted it as your response to "Hez's rockets are aimed at civilian areas - filled with shrapnel & ball bearings." Their inability to fight on equal terms is irrelevant. They are a terrorist organization.

You know that there are better and more altruist ways of addressing in public, since your posts are not only read by those you intend the message to, besides there are ladies around here, you know.
I don't give a shit what you think, sorry.

Yes you would be if you posted it as your response to "Hez's rockets are aimed at civilian areas - filled with shrapnel & ball bearings." Their inability to fight on equal terms is irrelevant. They are a terrorist organization.


You definitely have a one-sided view of the situation.

You definitely have a one-sided view of the situation.

Yes, the side that views it as Hezbollah as a terrorist organization & Israel as a state defending it's people from terrorists. I don't see the Lebanon - Israel situation on any other terms than those & there isn't any part of me that has any doubts about that view being correct.

What I see here are a bunch of terrorist apologists, who are then shocked to be called on it.

Yes, the side that views it as Hezbollah as a terrorist organization & Israel as a state defending it's people from terrorists. I don't see the Lebanon - Israel situation on any other terms than those & there isn't any part of me that has any doubts about that view being correct.


There isn't any conflict in human history where one side was 100% right and the other side 100% wrong, and you're kidding yourself if you believe otherwise.

There isn't any conflict in human history where one side was 100% right and the other side 100% wrong, and you're kidding yourself if you believe otherwise.

Ok, what was positive about the Third Reich?

There isn't any conflict in human history where one side was 100% right and the other side 100% wrong, and you're kidding yourself if you believe otherwise.

Ok, what was positive about the Third Reich?

They built really nice highways. ;-)

There isn't any conflict in human history where one side was 100% right and the other side 100% wrong, and you're kidding yourself if you believe otherwise.

Ok, what was positive about the Third Reich?

Seriously es, I can't think of any nice things to say about the Nazi regime, but on the other hand, the treatment of Germany after WWI by the victorious allies did have something to do with the rise of National Socialism in Germany in the 1930's.

There isn't any conflict in human history where one side was 100% right and the other side 100% wrong, and you're kidding yourself if you believe otherwise.

I couldn't disagree more, especially when you include terrorists in the equation.

What % of right do you think Japan was when it attacked Peral Harbor just out of interest? What % right was Hitler when he invaded Poland or France? What % right was AQ when they flew planes into the twin towers?

I couldn't disagree more.

No doubt. Perhaps you could give an example?

I gave you several examples

I gave you several examples

Err...where?

What % of right do you think Japan was when it attacked Peral Harbor just out of interest? What % right was Hitler when he invaded Poland or France? What % right was AQ when they flew planes into the twin towers?

What % of right do you think Japan was when it attacked Peral Harbor just out of interest? What % right was Hitler when he invaded Poland or France? What % right was AQ when they flew planes into the twin towers?


It might help if you would make a new post rather than editing an old post so it looks like I missed something. :-P

I think Japan was wrong for attacking the US, but it didn't happen in a vacuum either. We had put an economic stranglehold on Japan embargoing steel and oil shipments to that country.

I'll give you Hitler.

As to AQ, their's was an act of religious fanaticism, something I find difficult to comprehend. To be frank, I don't feel qualified to judge the morality of their actions.

It might help if you would make a new post rather than editing an old post so it looks like I missed something. :-P

Sorry, I added that immediately after creating the post, I didn't intend for it to look like you missed something.

As to AQ, their's was an act of religious fanaticism, something I find difficult to comprehend. To be frank, I don't feel qualified to judge the morality of their actions.

I have no problem saying that their actions were wrong.