attack
Lebanese Gov't Asks for Cease- Fire
By John Waage



The Lebanese government asked the U.N. Security Council to demand a cease-fire in cross-border fighting between Lebanon and Israel.

Two rockets fired by Lebanese guerrillas hit the northern port city of Haifa on Thursday. No injuries have been reported. According to police, the attack was the farthest south that rockets fired from Lebanon had hit.

Police say Israeli warplanes have attacked a major Lebanese army air base near the Syrian border. It's the first strike on the Lebanese army in Israel's fight with Hezbollah guerrillas.

Earlier, Lebanese Guerillas struck the northern Israeli town of Safed. Seven people are wounded after rockets hit a college and an immigration center.

And Israeli jets are pounding positions in Lebanon after Israel’s cabinet approved “severe” measures against the terrorist group Hezbollah.

Wednesday’s kidnapping of two more Israeli soldiers has led to the most widespread fighting in at least six years.

With two soldiers captured and at least eight killed, Israel’s two front war in Lebanon and Gaza is almost certain to expand.

Hezbollah’s brazen attack Wednesday inside Israel prompted the Israelis to blast the Beirut airport and other strategic targets in Lebanon.

“We will take forceful measures for a long time. This is going to be a long drawn out process,” Israeli Cabinet Minister Isaac Herzog said.
Hezbollah rockets rained death in Israel as well as a woman was killed and several wounded when Katyusha rockets hit the coastal town of Nahariya.

Other towns in the Galilee were hit as well, and thousands of residents in northern Israel have been ordered to shelters, as Hezbollah expands its Katyusha attacks to cities that haven’t felt them before.

Israel has made clear it holds the government of Lebanon responsible for Hezbollah’s actions. Prime Minister Olmert’s cabinet may enforce a naval blockade against Lebanese ports.

But Israel and the Bush administration both hold Syria and Iran ultimately accountable for Hezabollah’s act of war.

Meanwhile in Gaza, an Israeli airstrike destroyed the foreign ministry office run by Hamas, another sign that the leaders of terrorist groups will pay a heavy price as long as three Israeli soldiers remain captive.

Compiled with several Associated Press reports in addition to John Waage's report.


http://littlegreenfootballs.com/weblog/?entry=21523_Missile_Attack_on_Haifa#comments


http://www.cbn.com/vod/index.aspx?s=/vod/LebanonNews_071306

http://littlegreenfootballs.com/weblog/?entry=21523_Missile_Attack_on_Haifa#comments

Israel and the Bush administration both hold Syria and Iran ultimately accountable for Hezabollah’s act of war.

IF Hezbollah committed an *act of war* in its recent shellings, then WHAT did Israel commit when it murdered 102 Lebanese civilains in 1996, if not an overt act of war?

Are you saing that Israel attacked Lebanese civilians for no reason at all? They just woke up one day and said, I think I will kill some innocent civilins.

Your sidinng with the terrorists is mind boggling.


IF Hezbollah committed an *act of war* in its recent shellings, then WHAT did Israel commit when it murdered 102 Lebanese civilains in 1996, if not an overt act of war?

Are you saing that Israel attacked Lebanese civilians for no reason at all? They just woke up one day and said, I think I will kill some innocent civilins.

No.

I am saying that they were NOT justified --no matter what the supposed *reason* was at the time-- in slaughtering 102 innocent civilians.


Your sidinng with the terrorists is mind boggling.

I am not "siding with" any terrorists, you binary, black-and-white-thinking-obsessed twit.

(I deplore the terrorism that BOTH sides are committing.)

I am saying that is is a tragedy what the Palestinian people are being subjected to......and contrary to what you seem to be implying, not every Palestinian is a terrorist.

And on top of that, in my view Israel has been and continues to be FAR more guilty of perpetrating terrorism against the Pals than vise versa.

BTW, gmsisko;

I didn't catch your answer to this -------

IF Hezbollah committed an *act of war* in its recent shellings, then what did Israel commit when it murdered 102 Lebanese civilains in 1996, if not an act of war?

IF Hezbollah committed an *act of war* in its recent shellings, then what did Ariel Sharon commit when he invaded Lebanon in 1982 and killed 17,500 Lebanese and Palestinians?

~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~

You want some *history*..........I'll GIVE you the REAL "history".......

""Through early 1982 Israel carried out a series of provocative actions in southern Lebanon, including the sinking of Lebanese fishing boats in Lebanese territorial waters...military maneuvers in southern Lebanon that were described by the UN as "intensive, excessive, and provocative," ... and -- from August 1981 to May 1982 -- 2125 violations of Lebanese airspace and 652 violations of Lebanese territorial waters. None of these actions succeeded in eliciting a PLO "provocation" that could serve as a pretext for the planned invasion. In February, Time reported, an Israeli "assault was narrowly averted...though perhaps not for long."...The Israeli and international media carried many other reports of the impending invasion, but the PLO was uncooperative and supplied no suitable pretext.

On April 21 Israel broke the nine-month truce with a still more provocative action, bombing alleged PLO centers in coastal areas south of Beirut. This time there had been a PLO "terrorist act": an Israeli soldier had been killed when his military jeep struck a land mine -- in southern Lebanon!

There was still no PLO response. Israel's position that its bombing was retaliatory was accepted in the US by the "pro-PLO" and "anti-Israel" press. The Washington Post, for example, responded to these events as follows:

So this is not the moment for sermons to Israel. It is a moment for respect for Israel's anguish--and for mourning the latest victims of Israeli-Palestinian hostility.

Typically, it is Israel's anguish that we must respect when still more Palestinians are killed in an unprovoked Israeli terrorist attack -- again one imagines that the reaction might have been somewhat different if the PLO had bombed coastal roads north of Tel Aviv, killing many people, in retaliation for the death of a Palestinian guerrilla in northern Israel, an Israeli "provocation."

The reference in the Post to "Israel's anguish" has to do with the difficulty of "suppressing" Palestinian nationalism in the occupied territories, and the "great pain" caused by the evacuation of the Yamit settlers in what the Israeli press called "Operation National Trauma '82". Note that "the latest victims" were not victims of Israeli air raids, but of the more abstract "Israeli-Palestinian hostility." __________Noam Chomsky http://www.commondreams.org/views02/0713-07.htm

IF Hezbollah committed an *act of war* in its recent shellings, then WHAT did Israel commit when it murdered 102 Lebanese civilains in 1996, if not an overt act of war?

1996 was 10 years ago. Lets not harp back to 10 years ago & keep the focus on this issue.

The lebanese are 100% to blame for the attacks they have received. No attacks would have occured if they hadn't have crossed into Israel killed 6 soldiers & captured 2 more. The lebanese claim that they have no control over Hizbolla - too bad, they are operating out of Lebanon, so the Lebanese have responsibility no matter if the choose to take it or not.

With Israel being surrounded by countries wanting their destruction, and with Israel being a small country the size of NJ - it's critical that they strike fast & hard. This is the only message their foes understand.

Just because they're operating out of Lebanon the Lebanese government is responsible? I have no doubt that the Lebanese government is in someway involved, however that cut and dry logic is asinine. Just because a, say, serial killer is "operating" out of a neighborhood, the FBI has the authority to just wontonly break down doors and shoot whoever's in their way? Just to cut it close to home. The logic involved in that is exactly the same. Attack an area because a few bad people might be there? Retarded. Let's not try and find out who did it, let's just eliminate every possible suspect. Colonel Mustard may not have actually been the one to do it with the wrench in the study, but hell, he was somewhere around when it happened, convict him anyways.

I don't agree with that logic. Hezbollah is IN the lebanese government!

No country in the world is going to sit around and allow itself to be attacked across its own borders on its own soil. This is what Hezbollah have done to Israel without ANY provocation. Israel has to act firmly, especially when Hezbollah start shelling urban centers. The Lebanese leaders may not have a lot of control over Hezbollah, but Hezbollah is part of the lebanse government - it's not an outlaw organization.

This is what Hezbollah have done to Israel without ANY provocation.

That is where you're wrong. There are still people living in Lebanon who well remember when Israel murdered 102 civilians ten years ago. The Jews remember an affront for a thousand years....do you think the Muslims do not remember when their people are slaughtered?

This conflict, with all the back-and-forth attacks, does not go back 2 weeks, or ten years. It goes back 60 years. And more. Both sides are always retaliating and responding to some violence the other side has previously committed.

And Israel inflicts exponentially more violence on the Palestinian people and other assorted Muslims than vise versa.

That is where you're wrong. There are still people living in Lebanon who well remember when Israel murdered 102 civilians ten years ago. The Jews remember an affront for a thousand years....do you think the Muslims do not remember when their people are slaughtered?

This conflict, with all the back-and-forth attacks, does not go back 2 weeks, or ten years. It goes back 60 years. And more. Both sides are always retaliating and responding to some violence the other side has previously committed.

And Israel inflicts exponentially more violence on the Palestinian people and other assorted Muslims than vise versa.

Oh come one, that's retarded. Israel pulled out 6 years ago, the border was quiet for years. By your logic there could never be peace EVER because there would always be some justification going back XYZ years.

With all the state-of-art killing technology that Isreal has been handed,why didnt it simply target some Hezbollah camps,or invade Syria,who control them,just another sign of weak Isreali leadership,nothing new to contribute to peace in the region,as usual.

Bush Rejects Lebanon's Calls for Cease-Fire

Friday , July 14, 2006




ST. PETERSBURG, Russia — President Bush rejected Lebanon's calls for a cease-fire in escalating Mideast violence on Friday, saying only that Israel should try to limit civilian casualties as it steps up attacks on its neighbor.

"The president is not going to make military decisions for Israel," White House spokesman Tony Snow said.

Lebanon's prime minister asked Bush, during a phone call Friday, to pressure Israel for a cease-fire. But Bush told Prime Minister Fuad Saniora that Israelis have a right to protect themselves.

"We think it's important that, in doing that, they try to limit as much as possible the so-called collateral damage, not only on civilians but also on human lives," Snow said.

Israeli war planes have been bombing sites around Lebanon, including the main airport, bridges and power stations, to punish Hezbollah for the capture of two Israeli soldiers. At least 61 people in Lebanon have been killed.

On the other side, Hezbollah militants have fired hundreds of rockets at northern Israel. At least 10 Israelis have been killed.

Saniora's office issued a statement saying Bush "affirmed his readiness to put pressure on Israel to limit the damage to Lebanon as a result of the current military action, and to spare civilians and innocent people from harm."

Snow said that wasn't so. Bush merely "reiterated his position" that Israel should limit the impact on civilians, he said.

"It is unlikely that either or both parties are going to agree to" a cease-fire at this point, Snow said.

Bush's conversation with Saniora as he flew from Germany to Russia was part of a round of telephone diplomacy aimed at quelling the flare-up in violence. The president also spoke with allies Egyptian President Hosni Mubarak and Jordan's King Abdullah II and thanked them for helping to try to ease the violence in their neighborhood, Snow said.

Bush was pleased that a number of major Muslim nations such as Egypt, Jordan and Saudi Arabia "do not look on Hezbollah as being a legitimate government entity," Snow said.

Hezbollah is an Iranian-backed militant Shiite faction which has a free hand in southern Lebanon and holds seats in parliament. The Lebanese government has no control over Hezbollah but has long resisted international pressure to forcibly disarm the group for fears of igniting sectarian conflict.

Bush has not spoken with Israeli leaders, but Secretary of State Condoleezza Rice called Israeli Prime Minister Ehud Olmert, Snow said. Snow did not provide details of the conversation.

The president flew to Russia for discussions with President Vladimir Putin and a weekend summit of industrial powers being held here. Israel's attacks on Lebanon and the counterattacks on Israel were sure to be heavy discussion topics — on an issue where Bush is at odds with some of his allies.

Russia, the host of the Group of Eight summit, and France, another summit nation, have criticized the Israeli attacks. But Bush's strong defense for Israel's right to defend itself has been tempered only by concern that the offensive could weaken or topple the fragile democratic government in Beirut.

The crisis threatened to dash Bush's hopes to see the G8 summit produce a united stand against Iran's nuclear ambitions and North Korea's long-range missile test.

Snow said it seemed inevitable that the G8 members would issue some kind of a statement on the Mideast situation, but it was unclear what it would say. Rice said a three-person team sent by the United Nations to the region should get a chance to try to defuse the crisis.

Several drafts concerning violence in the Middle East were already on the table. "With the pace of events, they're going to have to redraft them," Snow said.

"It is important that everybody talk with one voice," Snow said.

In St. Petersburg, Bush's first stop was a monument honoring those who defended Leningrad — the Soviet name for the city — during the 900-day World War II siege. More than half a million people died, most of hunger. Bush and his wife paused there for a long moment of silence.

In what amounted to a gentle statement about democratic backsliding under Putin's leadership, Bush went from there to sit down with 17 representatives from civil society groups whom he called "young, vibrant Russian activists who loved their country" but who also are concerned about human conditions there. The president said he planned to convey some of their worries directly to Putin.

"I assured them the United States of America cares about the form of government in Russia," Bush told reporters afterward. "I hope I was encouraging for them. It was instructive to me."

The highlight of the president's first day here was a social dinner with Putin at the opulent 18th century Konstantin Palace, the luxurious venue Putin chose for the Group of Eight meetings.

Beforehand, the president spent part of the afternoon on a bike ride in a wooded area near the site of the summit.

Bush and Putin meet as U.S. and Russian negotiators try to conclude a deal to let Russia join the World Trade Organization. Russia hoped to have the presidents announce it as early as Saturday.

But while officials reached a breakthrough in banking, officials said U.S. Trade Representative Susan Schwab and Russian Economics Minister German Gref continued working Friday on a number of other sticking points.

"There is no resolution at this point," said Sean Spicer, Schwab's spokesman.

''The President is not going to make military decisions for Israel''.
No hes going to arm them,and let them make their own decisions.

''Limit collateral damage,not only on civilians,but on human lives''
Who writes this stuff.

''Israelis have a right to protect themselves''
Absolutly.

As we slide even closer to WW3 we can thank our great leader for all he has done to keep the world safe. Stirring up the hornets nest in the middle east was such a peacable and diplomatic move on his part. Adding fuel to the fire of the Arabs hatred of all things American and Jewish was a brilliant diplomatic move. All hail king george.

By your logic there could never be peace EVER because there would always be some justification going back XYZ years.

Absolutely correct.

And I am convinced that there never WILL be peace in that region.

Until........

.....there will never be peace in the Middle East until either the Zionists or the Muslims completely wipe out the other side.

Ha Ha Ha,

We have given Israel weapons under countless presidents, including Clintax.

Who are we to tell Isreael what to do. It is Israel who must defend itself, and that it will do.


As we slide even closer to WW3 we can thank our great leader for all he has done to keep the world safe. Stirring up the hornets nest in the middle east was such a peacable and diplomatic move on his part. Adding fuel to the fire of the Arabs hatred of all things American and Jewish was a brilliant diplomatic move. All hail king george.

sisko,you worry me.

Absolutely correct.

And I am convinced that there never WILL be peace in that region.

Until........

.....there will never be peace in the Middle East until either the Zionists or the Muslims completely wipe out the other side.

Believing there will never be peace is one thing, but taking a view which would absolutely ensure there would never be peace is another thing all together. Your view if shared by the parties involved in the ME would ensure the latter.

You know FT - you and Trav are like 2 peas from the same pod. You may have opposing viewpoints, but you both are totally blind to the opposing view & always bring up something silly when faced with having to admit there may be some merit to the opposing view.

Who are we to tell Isreael what to do.

Well, we give them lots of money, so as far as I'm concerned they can do what we ask. Or better yet, we cut them off. I'd rather keep our money here.

As we slide even closer to WW3 we can thank our great leader for all he has done to keep the world safe. Stirring up the hornets nest in the middle east was such a peacable and diplomatic move on his part. Adding fuel to the fire of the Arabs hatred of all things American and Jewish was a brilliant diplomatic move. All hail king george.

That's right, you narrow minded old broad. Blame it on somebody you dislike because you're told to, and expect all to hail your sanctmonious blatherings. When considering your last 100 posts, how many have contained your original thoughts?

We need to go to pre 1947 boundries, where was Israel then? The arabs have been upset with the artifically created state of Israel since the begining.How bout we create A new Israel in California, think anybody would be upset in the US.
Hows your yiddish Trav?

We need to go to pre 1947 boundries, You mean give the land back to the British?

How bout we create A new Israel in California, think anybody would be upset in the US.I really hope you're not serious.

Well, we give them lots of money, so as far as I'm concerned they can do what we ask. Or better yet, we cut them off. I'd rather keep our money here.

I agree. I think the last I heard we give Israel something like 13% of our entire foreign aid budget annually.

That's right, you narrow minded old broad. Blame it on somebody you dislike because you're told to, and expect all to hail your sanctmonious blatherings.

""That's right, you narrow minded old broad. Blame it on somebody you dislike because you're told to, and expect all to hail your sanctmonious blatherings""______es347fan

Translated into non-bullshit:---

---- "I'm sorry Echo2, but I simply cannot address the points you've made and still remain loyal to the GOP-supported mantra of --"G. W. Bush is always and forever right, no matter what he does". Instead, I will simply insert my head deep into the sand and pretend everything is perfectly fine, thus maintaining face while avoiding the embarrassment of having to defend the murderous, illegal, unethical actions of the political regime in question."

You're so full of shit, FT ... she makes no points of her own volition, only parroting those that sound right at the moment. She presents with all the depth of fresh paint on a wall.

""That's right, you narrow minded old broad. Blame it on somebody you dislike because you're told to, and expect all to hail your sanctmonious blatherings""______es347fan

Translated into non-bullshit:---

---- "I'm sorry Echo2, but I simply cannot address the points you've made and still remain loyal to the GOP-supported mantra of --"G. W. Bush is always and forever right, no matter what he does". Instead, I will simply insert my head deep into the sand and pretend everything is perfectly fine, thus maintaining face while avoiding the embarrassment of having to defend the murderous, illegal, unethical actions of the political regime in question."

Translated into non-bullshit:---

---- "I'm sorry es347fan, but I simply cannot address the points you've made and still remain loyal to the FT-supported mantra of --"G. W. Bush is always and forever wrong, no matter what he does". Instead, I will simply insert my head deep into my ass and observe that everything is perfectly foul, thus maintaining face while avoiding the embarrassment of having to come up with something new to say about the actions of the political regime in question."

FT is in dire need of a recent surgical procedure in which a lexan plate is inserted into the lower abdominal wall ensuring that all observing may indeed view when his head is firmly inserted into his rectal cavity.:woohoo:

FT is in dire need of a recent surgical procedure in which a lexan plate is inserted into the lower abdominal wall ensuring that all observing may indeed view when his head is firmly inserted into his rectal cavity.


I would say that those who make statements such as ---"Blame it on somebody you dislike because you're told to"--- are the people with their head firmly inserted up their goddamned ass.

Like you, for example.

We need to go to pre 1947 boundries, where was Israel then? The arabs have been upset with the artifically created state of Israel since the begining.How bout we create A new Israel in California, think anybody would be upset in the US.
Hows your yiddish Trav?

Boundaries are forever changing. Should we give the US back to the British, or maybe give the US back to the plains indians?

The whole notion that Isreal is stolen land is such baloney.

Children, Children. Can't we all just get along!!

Ha Ha Ha Ha Ha Ha



I would say that those who make statements such as ---"Blame it on somebody you dislike because you're told to"--- are the people with their head firmly inserted up their goddamned ass.

Boundaries are forever changing.

Yes...and groups of people are forever going into countries that they want to appropriate and committing genocide (as was done against the Amerian Indians) against the people living there so they can "change" the "ownership" of that piece of the earth.

But that does not make it right, and it does not make the people committing the atrocities "godly" or ethical. Quite the opposite.

The Arabs were bitching long before Israel became a reality. After they get their collective asses handed to them yet again- by Israel- & tire of that type of beating they'll find something else to bellyache about.

The Arabs were bitching long before Israel became a reality.

Uhhhhhhh......ok.

After they get their collective asses handed to them yet again- by Israel- & tire of that type of beating.......

LOL.

Absent their Big Bad uncle, Uncle Sam, giving them 80 billion dollars every year in aid, they couldn't "hand" the Boy Scouts their asses.

Absent the US providing them massive military aid, they would last about as long as a snowball in a blast furnace.


....they (the Muslims) will find something else to bellyache about.

Yeah. Maybe.

Who are we to tell Isreael what to do.Who are we? We're their guardian angels, their daddies, and pretty much the reason they still exist as a country. If we have something to say they'd better listen.

Who are we to tell Isreael what to do.

America can tell every other country in world what to do but when it comes to Israel we have our hands tied behind our backs. Israel gots America in check.

Yes they have bad ass tech. They also have bad ass people in their millitary.

It takes both. I WW2, the US and the British beat the Germans with less than par planes. Please explain this?

(We had bad ass people, just like Israel)


Uhhhhhhh......ok.



LOL.

Absent their Big Bad uncle, Uncle Sam, giving them 80 billion dollars every year in aid, they couldn't "hand" the Boy Scouts their asses.

Absent the US providing them massive military aid, they would last about as long as a snowball in a blast furnace.




Yeah. Maybe.

It takes both. I WW2, the US and the British beat the Germans with less than par planes. Please explain this?

(We had bad ass people, just like Israel)

Yeah, we had bad ass people, but by 1944 our planes were definitely superior.

1. Absent their Big Bad uncle, Uncle Sam, giving them 80 billion dollars every year in aid, they couldn't "hand" the Boy Scouts their asses.
2. Absent the US providing them massive military aid, they would last about as long as a snowball in a blast furnace.1. There's more to Israel's survival than just getting support from the US. If money were all it took, the Arabs would have wiped Israel off the map long ago. They certainly have a lot more money available than Israel.

2. Yeah, okay.

Yeah, we had bad ass people, but by 1944 our planes were definitely superior.

Not to mention we had a few more than they did.

Yes...and groups of people are forever going into countries that they want to appropriate and committing genocide (as was done against the Amerian Indians) against the people living there so they can "change" the "ownership" of that piece of the earth.

But that does not make it right, and it does not make the people committing the atrocities "godly" or ethical. Quite the opposite.

Living in the US, in a country stolen from the Indians affords you the luxury of being the dreamer that you are.

I get the distinct impression that the only time you would accept the world is if it was perfect.

I made no claim that my examples were Godly or Ethical - only that they were realistic.

Im sure someone will correct me on this,but dont you have to be Jewish,to emigrate to Israel,cant think of anywhere else that dictates religion as a requirement.

LOL, how about any muslim country. how many jews are serving in the governments of saudi arabia or iran? in fact, try to worship anyting but islam in Saudi arabia and see how far that gets you. In israel there are palestinians serving in the isaraeli government. there are muslims all over israel living peacefully. you need to get out of ireland more.

Thanks Trav,I do get out of Ireland regulary,lets see.
I think youll find these Arabs dont pledge themselves to Palestine,but to Israel.
PS I dont think Iran is an Arab country.

LOL, how about any muslim country. how many jews are serving in the governments of saudi arabia or iran? in fact, try to worship anyting but islam in Saudi arabia and see how far that gets you. In israel there are palestinians serving in the isaraeli government. there are muslims all over israel living peacefully. you need to get out of ireland more.


There not considered Palestinians but Israeli Arabs.

Racism by Any Other Name
By Yitzhak Laor
Haaretz
April 7, 2005

It was announced this week that the government plans to stiffen the rules for granting citizenship to non-Jews, through amendments to the law that make it difficult to grant legal status to Palestinians and other foreigners married to Israeli citizens. The prime minister held a special discussion of the issue and decided to establish a committee headed by the interior minister. The Interior Ministry claims that some 55,000 applications for Palestinian family reunification through marriages to Israeli Arabs have been submitted since 1968, and that natural growth increased the “naturalized” population to some 137,000 Arabs – about one-tenth of the Arab minority in Israel.

http://www.ifamericansknew.org/cur_sit/racism.html

Although there situation is far better than those of Palestinians, they still face prejudice and discrimination.

PS I dont think Iran is an Arab country.
Correct, they are Persian (and speak Farsi, not Arabic).

Im sure someone will correct me on this,but dont you have to be Jewish,to emigrate to Israel
I may be wrong, but I met with a Israeli consulate general here in the states a few months ago...she helps organize Jewish families to move to Israel. There are "incentives" to move to Zion :D if you're Jewish, not so much if you were to move from say, Turkey, or Saudi. But no, being Jewish is not a requisite to move there (to my knowledge). However, due to the Israeli government, thousands of Jews move to Israel from around the world year after year.

Thanks Trav,I do get out of Ireland regulary,lets see.
I think youll find these Arabs dont pledge themselves to Palestine,but to Israel.
PS I dont think Iran is an Arab country.

I never said arab, I said muslim, learn how to read

In israel there are palestinians



There not considered Palestinians but Israeli Arabs.



Palestinians aren't considered Palestinians but Israelies.

really there is no such thing as a palestinian then. It would like me calling myself a north american. palestine is the name of an area, not a country.

really there is no such thing as a palestinian then. It would like me calling myself a north american. palestine is the name of an area, not a country.


We can always call Palestinians Military Occupied Persons. Or Oppressed Individuals of a Military Occupied Zone.

didnt the palestinians used to be jordanians until the jordanians kicked themout?

didnt the palestinians used to be jordanians until the jordanians kicked themout?

Palestinians always considered themselves as Palestinians. And its not just Jordan that "kicked them out. " Almost every Arab country showed no sympathy to Palestine.

Palestinians always considered themselves as Palestinians. And its not just Jordan that "kicked them out. " Almost every Arab country showed no sympathy to Palestine.

thats right, but the world didnt get outraged until the jews mistreated them. palestinians in Lebanon get treated like shit, worse then they do in israel

Almost every Arab country showed no sympathy to Palestine.
Oh, boo-hoo. The whole region's fucked anyway. If these people didn't have any oil, we would gladly sit back and watch them kill each other as we ate popcorn infront of our big screen TVs.

It's all one sided against Israel.



thats right, but the world didnt get outraged until the jews mistreated them. palestinians in Lebanon get treated like shit, worse then they do in israel

Oh, boo-hoo. The whole region's fucked anyway. If these people didn't have any oil, we could gladly sit back and watch them kill each other as we ate popcorn infront of our big screen TVs.
Yes I think your probably right,we could have a series like 'lost',just go on and on and on.

Yes Trav,you did say Muslim,I can read,a bit.

Yes I think your probably right,we could have a series like 'lost',just go on and on and on.
Talk about "real" TV...

Yes,with special guest appearance by Mr S Huessin,think your on to something there Prae,need a title now.

How about "Palemination"???

"Palestinians always considered themselves as Palestinians. And its not just Jordan that "kicked them out. " Almost every Arab country showed no sympathy to Palestine."

That is until they decided the Jews were more wothy of their ire. Now it seems the Palestinians are under the Arab umbrella.

"Palestinians always considered themselves as Palestinians. And its not just Jordan that "kicked them out. " Almost every Arab country showed no sympathy to Palestine."

That is until they decided the Jews were more wothy of their ire. Now it seems the Palestinians are under the Arab umbrella.

only because it appears to give their hatred of jews some validity. look at all the idiots jumping to defend blatent anti semitism as protection of palestinians. if there were no palestinian problem what would their excuse be? it is a lot easier to hate jews openly when you make them into the bad guys, ask Adolf

How about "Palemination"???
I was thinking more on the lines of 'Hebrewstan'.

Oh, boo-hoo. The whole region's fucked anyway. If these people didn't have any oil, we would gladly sit back and watch them kill each other as we ate popcorn infront of our big screen TVs.Yeah screw them, they're not really human anyway. :rolleyes:

it is a lot easier to hate jews openly when you make them into the bad guys,

They make themsleves the *bad guys*

The Bush administration has now --despicably, abominably, and in the most anti-human way imaginable-- given Israel free reign to decimate the nation of Lebanon because of the actions of one group of extremeists operating from there.


American diplomacy in the crisis precipitated by Israeli aggression first against Gaza and then against its neighbor to the north is concentrated on blocking any move for a ceasefire and concocting a pretext for future military action against Syria and Iran. It is transparently clear that for President Bush it is of no consequence that tens of thousands of American citizens, not to mention other foreign nationals, are in harm’s way, as Israel continues to blast away at civilian populations in every part of the country, including the capital, Beirut. Already, eight Canadians have died as a result of an Israeli bomb attack on a house in southern Lebanon. Far from issuing a warning to Israel to desist until the Americans can be evacuated, Bush and Secretary of State Condoleezza Rice have been using every available forum to justify Israel’s savage assault and scotch all efforts to halt the lopsided fighting, in which Israel has an overwhelming military advantage. ----- Barry Grey

_________________________________________

Oh, BTW, all you RightWing cheerleaders for Israeli aggression;

Here's a fact for you to chew on ---

Number of Israeli prisoners being held by Palestine -- 1

Number of Palestinian prisoners being held by Israel -- 9,599

~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~

“Since the beginning of the Israeli occupation of Palestinian territories in 1967, over 650,000 Palestinians have been detained by Israel. This forms approximately 20% of the total Palestinian population in the Occupied Palestinian Territories.”

....given Israel free reign to decimate the nation of Lebanon .....Scorpio Killer: You tried to kill me!
Dirty Harry: If I was trying to kill you you'd be dead.

If Israel were trying to decimate .......

Scorpio Killer: You tried to kill me!
Dirty Harry: If I was trying to kill you you'd be dead.

If Israel were trying to decimate .......

That's a reasonable objection.

I stand corrected.

I will withdraw the word *decimate* and replace it with *indiscriminately bomb*.

"Indiscriminately bomb" is Kyatushas hitting population centers with no strategic importance.

Can you hear Katyusha gunners reciting The Arrow and The Song as they send their little rockets off? Perhaps Longfellow isn't taught there - he was an infidel.

"Indiscriminately bomb" is Kyatushas hitting population centers with no strategic importance.


If you're anxious to do a numbers comparison of how many people each respective side has killed of the others, i am all for it.

It will be very illustrative.

Here's one for thought;

------------ Israelis and Palestinians Killed in the Current Violence --------

4,064 Palestinians and 1,084 Israelis have been killed since September 29, 2000.

If you're anxious to do a numbers comparison of how many people each respective side has killed of the others, i am all for it.
It will be very illustrative.
Here's one for thought;
------------ Israelis and Palestinians Killed in the Current Violence --------
4,064 Palestinians and 1,084 Israelis have been killed since September 29, 2000.That's very nice, but this is what I said:
"Indiscriminately bomb" is Kyatushas hitting population centers with no strategic importance.

But bring up whatever you like.

That's very nice, but this is what I said:
"Indiscriminately bomb" is Kyatushas hitting population centers with no strategic importance.


I was trying to make the point that Israel too is guilty --many times over-- of *indiscriminate bombing*.

But obfuscate to your heart's content.

I see what you meant now.

But write back if you like.

thats right, but the world didnt get outraged until the jews mistreated them. palestinians in Lebanon get treated like shit, worse then they do in israel


So you admit that Palestinians are mistreated by Israelies?

So you admit that Palestinians are mistreated by Israelies?

Hah!

If he does, he'll be the first Reichwing cheerleader I have ever known to do so.

One Giant Gaza Strip
---------Mike Whitney


http://www.thepeoplesvoice.org/cgi-bin/blogs/news.php


The last few days have provided a troubling view of the new world order. The Israeli assault on Lebanon’s infrastructure has battered bridges, roads, power-plants, grain depots, apartment buildings, mosques, community centers, civilian homes, gas stations, ports and many of the country’s critical life-support systems. Additionally, Israel has killed 155 civilians including 15 children who were instantly vaporized by a missile that destroyed their van while they were fleeing southern Lebanon. Israel has justified the carnage by pointing to the 2 soldiers who were captured by members of the Lebanese resistance organization, Hezbollah. But Israel’s defense is hopelessly flawed.

What if relatives or friends of the many US detainees who’ve been illegally imprisoned at Guantanamo, decided to use F-16s and laser-guided missiles to attack the Golden Gate Bridge, the Sears Tower, New York City’s electrical grid, and vast swathes of the highway system? Would that be equally justifiable? Or, more to the point, what if Hezbollah decided to blow up major parts of Israel’s infrastructure in retaliation for the hundreds of Lebanese prisoners languishing in Israeli prisons without any legal recourse? Would that be okay?

Israel’s rationale is merely an apology for state terrorism and it’s utterly meaningless in respect to the enormous damage they’ve caused.

<snip>

Free, Hezbollah wouldn't operate on Lebanon's behalf. It's funny that this author wouldn't realize that.

Yeah screw them, they're not really human anyway.
Exactly.

All joking aside, if they really wanted to be treated like human beings, then maybe they should start acting like human beings. I mean, just once in this next millennia, I'd like to see them break their 2000-year-old battle precedent. Seriously, it's a total shit hole, and they're dying over who gets what part. If they really want to kill each other over "religious territory" (and it appears they do), then I say let's televise it so we can hear the bombs blow in stereo 5.1 on our 50" TheaterWide flat screen TVs while we eat buttered popcorn and laugh at how stupid people get blown to bits for their invisible friend in the sky.

People like FT cry and say that Israel is killing more than the terrorists.

Maybe if the terrorists (cowards) would stop putting their weapons and missles with innocent people, (in schools, hospitles exc.) the death toll would be less.


Free, Hezbollah wouldn't operate on Lebanon's behalf. It's funny that this author wouldn't realize that.

People like FT cry and say that Israel is killing more than the terrorists.

Maybe if the terrorists (cowards) would stop putting their weapons and missles with innocent people, (in schools, hospitles exc.) the death toll would be less.
I dont think that would explain away the Israeli Airforce bombing a highway bridge while civilians were on it,once again,Israel has no regards for the lives of the Lebonese civilian population,the IDF arent short of having 'smart bombs' theres no excuse for the wholesale slaughter of innocents and the destruction of Beirut.

Israel has no regards for the lives of the Lebonese civilian population...

True.

Which is precisely the point that callous ignoramuses like gmsisko are desperately trying to gloss over.

Maybe if the terrorists (cowards) would stop putting their weapons and missles with innocent people, (in schools, hospitles exc.) the death toll would be less.

Please provide whatever proof you have that the terrorists are storing their weapons and missiles in schools and hospitals.

I dont think that would explain away the Israeli Airforce bombing a highway bridge while civilians were on it,
There was a video that got a lot of play in the US of a civilian passenger train in Kosovo going off a bridge immediately after our Air Force took out the bridge. The bomb was dropped 40 seconds to a minute before it hit the bridge so it was not on purpose.

Israel's strategy in Lebanon is to isolate certain areas to contain Hezbollah. Are you suggesting that Israel dropped a million dollar bomb to kill 10 civilians?

Weren't the Lebonese warned with fliers before any attacks?

It kinda sucks, but in war innocent people will die.

Israel will look out for it's own citizens before they regard the citizens of other countries. It's that simple, the US would do the same.

But yes, we should try to protect innocent life, but we must defend our own life aswell.

The US goes to great streches to protect innocent life. It could have ended the insurgency already, (with massive air strikes) But we are using more ground troops in order to save innocent life.



I dont think that would explain away the Israeli Airforce bombing a highway bridge while civilians were on it,once again,Israel has no regards for the lives of the Lebonese civilian population,the IDF arent short of having 'smart bombs' theres no excuse for the wholesale slaughter of innocents and the destruction of Beirut.

Do you watch the news, look it up, I won't baby sit you.





Please provide whatever proof you have that the terrorists are storing their weapons and missiles in schools and hospitals.

There was a video that got a lot of play in the US of a civilian passenger train in Kosovo going off a bridge immediately after our Air Force took out the bridge. The bomb was dropped 40 seconds to a minute before it hit the bridge so it was not on purpose.

Israel's strategy in Lebanon is to isolate certain areas to contain Hezbollah. Are you suggesting that Israel dropped a million dollar bomb to kill 10 civilians?
No,Im saying,the bridge was getting bombed,whether there were civilians on it or not.

One Giant Gaza Strip
---------Mike Whitney


http://www.thepeoplesvoice.org/cgi-bin/blogs/news.php


The last few days have provided a troubling view of the new world order. The Israeli assault on Lebanon’s infrastructure has battered bridges, roads, power-plants, grain depots, apartment buildings, mosques, community centers, civilian homes, gas stations, ports and many of the country’s critical life-support systems. Additionally, Israel has killed 155 civilians including 15 children who were instantly vaporized by a missile that destroyed their van while they were fleeing southern Lebanon. Israel has justified the carnage by pointing to the 2 soldiers who were captured by members of the Lebanese resistance organization, Hezbollah. But Israel’s defense is hopelessly flawed.

What if relatives or friends of the many US detainees who’ve been illegally imprisoned at Guantanamo, decided to use F-16s and laser-guided missiles to attack the Golden Gate Bridge, the Sears Tower, New York City’s electrical grid, and vast swathes of the highway system? Would that be equally justifiable? Or, more to the point, what if Hezbollah decided to blow up major parts of Israel’s infrastructure in retaliation for the hundreds of Lebanese prisoners languishing in Israeli prisons without any legal recourse? Would that be okay?

Israel’s rationale is merely an apology for state terrorism and it’s utterly meaningless in respect to the enormous damage they’ve caused.

<snip>

More utter garbage.

If the relatives & friends of Gitmo inmates could attack New Yorks electricity Grid, the golden gate bridge etc etc then they would regardless of Gitmo. The comparison is patently STUPID.

The people in Isreali prisions are prisoners, not Hostages as Hezbollah likes to call them. They were captured, they had a trial & they were sentanced. They are terrorists & criminals.

Isreal wants one thing - security for it's citizens. Destroying a state supported terrorist group who crossed their borders & attacked them is perfectly legitimate.

Give it a rest with the useless whining, crying & pathetically missinformed points.

At present anyone can be detained if suspected of 'security' offences,for 96 hours,before being brought before a judge,without legal representation.A judge will then allow a suspect to be held a further 30 days.
During this 30 day period,detainees are most at risk of torture and ill treatment.
Looks like the Israelis studied British Methods in Ireland.

More utter garbage.

The people in Isreali prisions are prisoners, not Hostages as Hezbollah likes to call them. They were captured, they had a trial & they were sentanced. They are terrorists & criminals.

Isreal wants one thing - security for it's citizens. Destroying a state supported terrorist group who crossed their borders & attacked them is perfectly legitimate.

Give it a rest with the useless whining, crying & pathetically missinformed points.


Many people in Israeli prisons are in their for no reason at all. Many of them didn't have trials. If you think the treatment of Mordechai Vanunu was bad, you should see the punishment many innocent Palestinians go through. And if Palestinians are able to take the torture recieved, they go after their families...

"They handcuffed and beat me during the journey to Fara'a [Israel prison in Nablus]. Once we arrived, they took me to a 'doctor' for a 'check-up.' I found out later that this 'check-up' is to locate any physical weakness to concentrate on during torture. They paid particular attention to my leg, which was once injured and was still sensitive. Before they began interrogation, they asked me if I was ready to confess. They then hanged me by my wrists, naked, outside in the cold, and gave me hot and cold showers alternatively. A hood covered in manure was put over my head". -15 years old Palestinian boy [1]

Most victims of Israeli occupation were innocent Palestinian teen-agers arrested randomly. Children are arrested "at checkpoints, on the street, or at their homes by heavily armed Israeli soldiers in the middle of the night. The soldiers take them to detention centres in Israeli settlements or military camps… the children are interrogated. This almost always involves some form of torture or abuse, including sleep and food deprivation, threatening language, beatings with heavy batons, being punched and kicked, as well as being tied in painful and contorted positions for long periods of time"

http://www.informationclearinghouse.info/article6186.htm

how can someone be so stupid as to ask for proof the terrorists store their weapons and bases among civilians? its one of the most blatent truths around. they do it because they know we are reluctant to hit civilians. They obviously dont care about civilians or they wouldn hide themselves among them. when we eventually ahve to hit thier bases and weapons stockpiles in the civilian areas they can use the useful idiots in the west like freethinker to spread around free propaganda about how evil we are, when it was them who stored a military target in a civilian area in the first plac! seriously, how stupid are you freethinker? you always over look the most obvious fucking things

how can someone be so stupid as to ask for proof the terrorists store their weapons and bases among civilians? its one of the most blatent truths around. they do it because they know we are reluctant to hit civilians. They obviously dont care about civilians or they wouldn hide themselves among them. when we eventually ahve to hit thier bases and weapons stockpiles in the civilian areas they can use the useful idiots in the west like freethinker to spread around free propaganda about how evil we are, when it was them who stored a military target in a civilian area in the first plac! seriously, how stupid are you freethinker? you always over look the most obvious fucking things

With respect Trav, the entire Gaza strip is loaded with civilians, it's impossible to be in Gaza and not be in a civilian area.

Trav,when you say 'we',are you refering to the Israelis or the USAF.You being in California and all.

how can someone be so stupid as to ask for proof the terrorists store their weapons and bases among civilians? its one of the most blatent truths around.

Ok.

Then said proof should be extremely easy to provide.

The claim was specifically that terrorists are storing their weapons and missiles in schools and hospitals.

I'm not saying that they are NOT doing that. I don't know whether they are or not.

It just seems unlikely to me, and I wanted to hear what proof there was of it.

Please provide your "blatent" (sic) proof that the terrorists are storing their weapons and missiles in those places.

you always over look the most obvious fucking things

Ok.

Please help me to see the obvious, then.

Provide the proof that the terrorists are storing weapons and missiles in schools and hospitals.

Ok.

Please help me to see the obvious, then.

Provide the proof that the terrorists are storing weapons and missiles in schools and hospitals.
FT, it's common sense.

Do you think they rent buildings or storage facilities to hide their weapons? They, themselves, continue to hide amongst the general populace, and when surrounded by our troops, would always motion a surrender only to open fire on us when our backs are turned. They know we'll avoid killing innocents at all costs, and they use that to their advantage. If I were running things, I'd resort to their tactics. I'd start indiscriminately killing people until the general population started turning over bad guys in large numbers.

If I were running things, I'd resort to their tactics. I'd start indiscriminately killing people until the general population started turning over bad guys in large numbers.
And breed a new generation of Lebanese with a even greater hate of their southern neighbor. Most of these civilians are in support of Hezbollah, with the violence intensifying they are fleeing. Putting innocent blood on our hands in such a great amount has a large possibility to backfire in your plan.

And breed a new generation of Lebanese with a even greater hate of their southern neighbor. Most of these civilians are in support of Hezbollah, with the violence intensifying they are fleeing. Putting innocent blood on our hands in such a great amount has a large possibility to backfire in your plan.
I have little doubt that you're wrong - I'm just pissed off that we have to play by rules they don't.

I have little doubt that you're wrong - I'm just pissed off that we have to play by rules they don't.


There are rules to killing innocent people? Can you list them?

Aim and fire

Ok.

Please help me to see the obvious, then.

Provide the proof that the terrorists are storing weapons and missiles in schools and hospitals.

FT, it's common sense.

No, it isn't.

To me, it is the height of idiocy to suggest that people running hospitals would allow terrorists to store missiles there.

But again, I don't know. Maybe that is the case that they are doing such things.

Just show me the evidence that it is occuring, because it makes no sense to me that the terrorists would do that.

Do you think they rent buildings or storage facilities to hide their weapons?

One rightwing cheerleader here boasted --"Why, its SO FUCKING OBVIOUS that they're doing it!!

(the "it" in the above statement being the storing of weapons and missiles in schools and hospitals, per the original assertion)

Yet when I invited him to provide the proof of it, he had nothing more to say.


They, themselves, continue to hide amongst the general populace

Ok.

I can see where they --personally--- might do that.

I can NOT see where they would store their weapons and missiles in schools and hospitals.

Just show me the evidence that it is occuring.