Before Palestinian children can even make up their minds about Israel, they are being taught to hate and die. They will hate Israel no matter what does or doesn't happen to them in their lives.

These are some films shown to kids on Palestinian TV. Notice all these bastards telling the kids to die seem to have reached a pretty nice middle age themselves.

You won't believe these.


http://www.pmw.org.il/tv%20part1.html

And your point is.

If you watched the films, and you don't see the point, you're not credible anymore.

Yea watched the videos,were did you get these,from your own library.Trying to brainwash kids into attacking the IDF,totally disgraceful,theyd be gunned down like rabbits in the headlights,kids throwing rocks at American made battle tanks,futile,but understandable,you take a very partisan view here Brooks,yet I just read your 'wall' post elsewhere,still trying to figure you out.

Before Palestinian children can even make up their minds about Israel, they are being taught to hate and die.

Pretty sad.


They will hate Israel no matter what does or doesn't happen to them in their lives.

So what do you think Israel should do, knowing this?


You won't believe these.


I believed them. :)

you take a very partisan view here Brooks,yet I just read your 'wall' post elsewhere,still trying to figure you out.Ya' know Paulie, people read into things whatever they want. I never even took a side in my original post.
This is a story about people who hate so deeply that they encourage their own children to die. It's so unnatural to want your own kids to die, isn't it. No religion can make you feel that way (see, I'm defending Islam). Only hate can make you that insane.

So what do you think Israel should do, knowing this?
There is absolutely nothing they can do.

These films don't mention what Jordan did to them, King Fahd's famous remark or anything about their total lack of support in the Arab world.
Only Israel.

Before Palestinian children can even make up their minds about Israel, they are being taught to hate and die.

Yes. Some of them are.

Is it possible though that the reason they are taught that is because Israeli children are being taught to hate and (when they grow up to be soldiers) kill Palestinians.........

........??

________________________________________

A person who probably knows far more firsthand about this situation than anyone else here put it in the clearest, most cogent statement imaginable ---

""There are many people in Palestine and Israel that want peace. But its hard to achieve that peace when the Israeli government acts unjustly. Its hard to achieve that peace when the Israeli goverment is practicing a system of apartheid. Its hard to achieve peace when the Israeli government is building a massive wall that steals the Palestinian land, bars Palestinians from schools, jobs, hospitals, etc.""

It's sad but the world over is being "taught" something. In the US we are not devoid of being "taught" - it's just far more clever & subtle.

1. Is it possible though that the reason they are taught that is because Israeli children are being taught to hate and (when they grow up to be soldiers) kill Palestinians.........

2. There are many people in Palestine and Israel that want peace. But its hard to achieve that peace when the Israeli government acts unjustly.....1. I really don't think so. I think Israel's actions against the Palestinians are government driven as opposed to grassroots child sacrificers.

2. I think googs's post should be read by everyone. There were lessons in there for both of us.

People who brainwash kids like this are just part of the continuous circle of hate and violence,which keeps going round and round,any initiative to bring an end to this cycle of violence must come from the Isreali side,why,because as the stronger aggresser,they can,because there is no organised and disciplined military or Gov. on the Palestinian side,and its just impossable for them to speak as one at present,unfortunatly theres never been an Isreali politician,brave enough or capable enough,to take the first step,at the end of the day,Isreal are content in containing the Palestinians in the shitholes of Gaza and West Bank,and as long as they have armed forces way beyond anything any other country of its size and economy could afford,their happy enough throwing the Palestinians the crumbs from the Isreali table.

1. ...any initiative to bring an end to this cycle of violence must come from the Isreali side,.....there is no organised and disciplined military or Gov. [in Palestine]
2. Isreal are content in containing the Palestinians in the shitholes of Gaza and West Bank,1. Then it is up to the Palestinian government and citizens to reign these terrorists in (if they really want to).

2. Read the history of how the Palestinians have been treated by the Arab nations (worse in some cases).

"Next To Jews, We Hate Palestinians The Most" - King Fahd

Brooksie,on [1] Im not sure the Pal Authority would be capable of that,look at the Fatah,Hamas situation a few weeks ago.
[2] Yes I would agree with most of that.
PS The Saudis hate anything that would spoil their oil company.

Im not sure the Pal Authority would be capable of that,look at the Fatah,Hamas situation a few weeks ago.I agree they can't.
Look at these videos of these children getting indoctrinated. What do you think Israel can do to change those kids' minds? The answer is nothing.
Unfortunately, the Palestinian Authority is the only one in a position to start that change, and we agree that they probably can't.

Yes the videos are appalling,Ive seen young people growing up in similar situations,tho not as extreme,thus continues the circle,todays kids on video,susicide bombers ten years from now.Tho I have to say,the kids would be a hell of a lot harder to indoctrine if the IDF didnt keep rolling in with guns blazing,achieveing nothing,apart from proving the parents point has some justification to it.

I agree they can't.
Look at these videos of these children getting indoctrinated. What do you think Israel can do to change those kids' minds? The answer is nothing.
Unfortunately, the Palestinian Authority is the only one in a position to start that change, and we agree that they probably can't.

It's the treatment of Palestinians at checkpoints, the deaths of innocent civilians, the Wall, nights without water and electricity that persuade Palestinians to make these videos. These videos exist because of the treatment towards Palestinians. And when these videos do come out, I'm sure it just heightens that animosity some Palestinians have for Israeli policies and Israeli's. The PA shouldn't be the lone problem solver. Israel and the Pa need to work together with the help of an IMPARTIAL country most likely the U.S to end escalating violence.

Yes I have already said all of this,in different threads,agree.

To solve the jewish problem in the middle east we should go back to square one. When the jewish state location was picked, they should have been give California.
Americans are much more tolerant to invaders

They would have,but the Mexicans complained.

It's sad but the world over is being "taught" something. In the US we are not devoid of being "taught" - it's just far more clever & subtle.

"Subtle", that is the key word ... Taught no matter what, that the US is always right, and every body else is wrong, even their allies when they don't submissively agree. "War films", another big reason why so many love wars. Wars for kids through cartoons. And the everyday hammering of "we must defend our way of life". Well, just keep your way of life within your borders, and nobody would give a shit about it, and you wouldn't have to defend it from anybody.

Cro, good theory, but if Americans are so subtly indoctrinated then why do we have such diversity of opinion and internal disagreement (probably more than any other country)?

Tho I have to say,the kids would be a hell of a lot harder to indoctrine if the IDF didnt keep rolling in with guns blazing,achieveing nothing,....There was a particular video in that collection of very little girls sitting behind a woman talking about martyrdom (although she herself was very much alive...hmmmm).

If these little girls constantly hear this, even if they never have any contact with the IDF, they will learn hate anyway.

The PA shouldn't be the lone problem solver. Israel and the Pa need to work together with the help of an IMPARTIAL country most likely the U.S to end escalating violence.The Palestinian Authority has to do something, though. What have they themselves done in good faith to help this situation?
Also, the US is not, and is not recognized as, impartial. Someone else in the world has to step up occasionally.

Googs, you said in another post that your parents didn't expose you to these videos. What percentage of the kids are exposed to these, do you think?

And your point is.


The point, paul, is that there are people in "Palestine" who simply aren't going to accept any peace in the Middle East until Israel is wiped off the face of the map, and they make God-damned sure that the Palestinian population is going to be eternally hostile to Israel no matter what Israel does by showing all kinds of propaganda videos, movies, books, teachings and examples to children right out of the cradle.

Geez.

funny a thread on 'palistinians hate' when Isreal is currently escalating its genocidal war through collective punishment, bombing civilian infrastructure and using chemical weapons - all banned by the geneva conventions...not to emntion that they have started attcking lebanon.

Cro, good theory, but if Americans are so subtly indoctrinated then why do we have such diversity of opinion and internal disagreement (probably more than any other country)?

People in all countries always have different views on everything, we are creatures of diverse thoughts. But going to my point, not everybody falls for indoctrination, but there are those who do fall, and those are the ones who will act before thinking, just because there is a leader who gives this or that speech and they simply believe without a doubt. These are the dangerous people who get everyone else in trouble.

"If fools had wings we wouldn't be able to see the sun".

As a rule I live by: "screw you all politicians and whatever you have to say".

The point, paul, is that there are people in "Palestine" who simply aren't going to accept any peace in the Middle East until Israel is wiped off the face of the map, and they make God-damned sure that the Palestinian population is going to be eternally hostile to Israel no matter what Israel does by showing all kinds of propaganda videos, movies, books, teachings and examples to children right out of the cradle.

Geez.
Darth,everywhere youve wrote the words 'Isreal,Palestine',swape them around.

Darth,everywhere youve wrote the words 'Isreal,Palestine',swape them around.

To what point, paul? Israel has demonstrated over and over and over and over that they wish to live in peace. They've given up land and they've offered deals to the Palestinians. Hamas on the other hand, went and took advantage of the land Israel did give up and used that territory to lob rockets into Israel. Then they went and started kidnapping soldiers, so now it's war.

If the "Palestinians" truly wanted peace, it would happen, they don't. Those videos brooks went and dug up prove that, dammit.

funny a thread on 'palistinians hate' when Isreal is currently escalating its genocidal war through collective punishment, bombing civilian infrastructure and using chemical weapons - not to emntion that they have started attcking lebanon.Start a new thread on this and you might learn something.

People in all countries always have different views on everything, we are creatures of diverse thoughts. But going to my point, not everybody falls for indoctrination,Americans who disagree with Cromagnon are indoctrinated.
Americans who agree with Cromagnon didn't fall for the indoctrination.
The only American teachings that are "indoctrination" are the ones Cromagnon disagrees with.

Is that about it?

Israel has demonstrated over and over and over and over that they wish to live in peace.

I hereby nominate the above statement for the most-diametrically-opposed-to-the-truth statement EVER posted on AllForums.

Googs, you said in another post that your parents didn't expose you to these videos. What percentage of the kids are exposed to these, do you think?

I can't really give an estimate. I'm sure there are lots. But I can tell you one thing Brooks, 100% of Palestinian children are exposed to Israel's dreadful policies.

funny a thread on 'palistinians hate' when Isreal is currently escalating its genocidal war through collective punishment, bombing civilian infrastructure and using chemical weapons - all banned by the geneva conventions...not to mention that they have started attacking lebanon.

Excellent point.

It is hard to imagine how Israel could demonstrate more fully their hatred for Palestinians and for Muslims in general.


~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~



In strikes on south Lebanon, Israeli aircraft attacked Beirut airport and killed 22 civilians and wounded dozens, security sources said. Ten members of one family were killed in Dweir village and seven family members died in Baflay ----------- http://today.reuters.com/news/newsArticle.aspx?type=topNews&storyID=2006-07-13T050603Z_01_L11538533_RTRUKOC_0_US-MIDEAST.xml

To what point, paul? Israel has demonstrated over and over and over and over that they wish to live in peace. They've given up land and they've offered deals to the Palestinians. Hamas on the other hand, went and took advantage of the land Israel did give up and used that territory to lob rockets into Israel. Then they went and started kidnapping soldiers, so now it's war.

If the "Palestinians" truly wanted peace, it would happen, they don't. Those videos brooks went and dug up prove that, dammit.
One of the main stumbling blocks for negotiation to even begin,is Jerusalem,both sides claim all or part of it,Isreal dosent want to know.As for giving up land to the Palestinians,what land are you talking about Darth,some bit of sand with no water.Hamas militants being killed while attacking Isreal I have no problem with,what pisses me off is an Isreali gunship,or F16 dropping a bomb on them,and Palestinian civilians being killed,like I said,one side is as bad as the other,check your News Channel.

You are so one sided!

It is part of the religion of the CHILD MOLESTER (Muhammad) to kill all Infidels.

Israel does want to live in peace, but the missles hitting their cities, and the suicide bombers won't allow that.



Excellent point.

It is hard to imagine how Israel could demonstrate more fully their hatred for Palestinians and for Muslims in general.


~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~



In strikes on south Lebanon, Israeli aircraft attacked Beirut airport and killed 22 civilians and wounded dozens, security sources said. Ten members of one family were killed in Dweir village and seven family members died in Baflay ----------- http://today.reuters.com/news/newsArticle.aspx?type=topNews&storyID=2006-07-13T050603Z_01_L11538533_RTRUKOC_0_US-MIDEAST.xml

Israel does want to live in peace, but the missles hitting their cities, and the suicide bombers won't allow that.
If Israel wanted peace they wouldn't have blown up the power station for the Gaza, stranding thousands without electricity and water, over the kidnapping of one soldier.

If Israel wanted peace, they wouldn't have launched missles and sent troops into Lebanon over the kidnapping of two soldiers.

If Israel wanted peace, they wouldn't be taking steps that lead to war.

It is part of the religion of the CHILD MOLESTER (Muhammad) to kill all Infidels.

ROFL...Child molester?

You are forgetting to tell about the missles that were sent into Israli cities.
(They also responded to that)




If Israel wanted peace they wouldn't have blown up the power station for the Gaza, stranding thousands without electricity and water, over the kidnapping of one soldier.

If Israel wanted peace, they wouldn't have launched missles and sent troops into Lebanon over the kidnapping of two soldiers.

If Israel wanted peace, they wouldn't be taking steps that lead to war.

He was a child molester. Look it up.


ROFL...Child molester?

He was a child molester. Look it up.

No thanks sisko, I'm not about to waste my time on some fundamentalist wacko site.

Thanx for playin!
It won't even require a fundamentalst wacko site.



No thanks sisko, I'm not about to waste my time on some fundamentalist wacko site.

You are forgetting to tell about the missles that were sent into Israli cities.
Those are a reaction to the actions of the Israeli military.
No thanks sisko, I'm not about to waste my time on some fundamentalist wacko site.
Actually, I believe some historians have built a case with evidence that shows that he had a young bride, say...under 10, if I recall she was around 7.

Thanx for playin!

Please don't say that again, or your cyber-limbs will convieniently be a few hundred yards away from you in the morning. :D

Those are a reaction to the actions of the Israeli military.

The military actions by Israel were in response to the suicide bombings.

Didn't Israel give Gaza to the Palestinians, didn't the Palestinians spit in Israels face? Didn't the Palestinians elect Hammas?
Is it not written in the religion of Islam to kill all Infidels?
Is it not written in the Palestinian Charter to drive Israel into the sea?

You are forgetting to tell about the missles that were sent into Israli cities.
(They also responded to that)

You are ignoring the long history of violence --on BOTH sides-- that has gone before in the land the Israelis are illegally occupying.

Virtually every attack is a reprisal for a PRIOR attack by one side or the other. The HUGE difference being that when Israel is attacked, the losses are usually counted on the fingers of one hand, but when Israel attacks the Palestinians or the Lebanese (with their massive military might provided by MY and your taxdollars), they kill tens or hundreds.

~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~

Massacre in Lebanon: Israelis knew, and U.S. knew they knew
By Hillel Cohen -------16 May 1996

An Israeli artillery barrage on April 18 killed 102 Lebanese civilians who had taken refuge in a United Nations peacekeeping encampment.

At the time, Israeli government officials, including Prime Minister Shimon Peres, claimed that the attack on the civilian camp in Lebanon was a mistake.

But a UN investigation has confirmed that the attack on the UN-sponsored camp and the hundreds of civilians inside it was a deliberate move by the Israeli army.

~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~

Then what happened, gmissko?

We know what happened.

Some enraged Palestinian or Lebanese --with absolutely no other means to strike back-- strapped a bomb to himself and killed 3 or 5 Israelis.

Then Israel launches another reprisal, and kills a couple dozen in return.

And THEN, we get fools like you, who would NEVER look at it from the Palestianians standpoint, ceaselessly whining ---

---"Just LOOK at what those evil Palestinians are DOING to the poor, peace loving Israelis!!"

It's sickening.

The military actions by Israel were in response to the suicide bombings.
No they aren't, they are in direct coorelation to the kidnappings of a few of their soldiers.

Didn't Israel give Gaza tot eh Palistinians
Didn't Britain take it away from them and give it to the Jews?

didn't the Palistinians spit in Israels face? Didn't the Palistinians elect Hammas?
Do you think these military actions are justified because of the election of Hamas?

Having a pre-teen bride doesn't qualify as child molestation in your book? I would submit that for a significant majority of the remainder of society it does.

Having a pre-teen bride doesn't qualify as child molestation in your book? I would submit that for a significant majority of the remainder of society it does.
I amended my statement, that came out wrong. Now, let us stay on topic.

illegally occupying ha ha ha ..............

Correct me if I m worng, but I believe that all
of the Israli land was either given to them by the UN, or won by Israel in war.
(Like the little 7 day war where many Islamic Nations ganged up on Israel, and Israel handed their asses to them by some miracle)

So what you are saying is that because the terrorists are limited to small attacks, Israel is not allowed to use over-whelming force.

What would the US do if missles were sent into our cities from Mexico? Or if suicide bombers came into US cities from Mexico.

You are ignoring the long history of violence --on BOTH sides-- that has gone before in the land the Israelis are illegally occupying.
Last time I checked a history book the Israelis were granted that country by the owners of that land, the British.

"Just LOOK at what those evil Palestinians are DOING to the poor, peace loving Israelis!!"

It's sickening.
I agree.

Hamas is a terrorists orginazation, and it is bent on the destruction of Israel.
Didn't Brtitan get the land from a war with the Turkish? (maybe I'm wrong)


No they aren't, they are in direct coorelation to the kidnappings of a few of their soldiers.


Didn't Britain take it away from them and give it to the Jews?


Do you think these military actions are justified because of the election of Hamas?

Hamas is a terrorists orginazation, and it is bent on the destruction of Israel.
That is apparent.
Didn't Brtitan get the land from a war with the Turkish? (maybe I'm wrong)
The British ate up the leftovers from the Ottoman Empire after it was defeated in WW1.

Having a pre-teen bride doesn't qualify as child molestation in your book? I would submit that for a significant majority of the remainder of society it does.

No doubt, but if Mohammed had a pre-teen bride it was up to the society he lived in to judge his actions, not us, hundreds of years later. Sisko has offered no evidence to back up his claim and I'm not about to hunt for it. Even if it is true, it's hardly relevant to the situation in the Middle East.

The military actions by Israel were in response to the suicide bombings.

It might be more accurate to say their actions were an out of proportion response.


Is it not written in the religion of Islam to kill all Infidels?


Maybe, but I would assume that's taken about as literally as most Christians take the following passage:

Leviticus 20:9 For every one that curseth his father or his mother shall be surely put to death: he hath cursed his father or his mother; his blood shall be upon him.

Do you think people who curse their parents should be killed?

Last time I checked a history book the Israelis were granted that country by the owners of that land, the British.

Last time I checked a history book the British were simply granted control of Palestine by the Versailles Peace Conference.

Hamas is a terrorists orginazation, and it is bent on the destruction of Israel.

Ok.

But you will never have a grasp of this situation until you recognize that Israel is practicing terrorism against the Palestinians, and it is bent on their destruction.

The Pals have rocks. The Israelis have rocket launchers.

I believe we can see which group of terrorists will wipe out the other group.

You are so one sided!

It is part of the religion of the CHILD MOLESTER (Muhammad) to kill all Infidels.

Israel does want to live in peace, but the missles hitting their cities, and the suicide bombers won't allow that.

What about Palestinian Christians? You seem to generalize all Palestnians as Muslims. I don't know why your so infatuated with the Palestinian/Israeli conflict, but you should check your facts before you state something incorrect. What you see in the media, especially Israeli propaganda, is not what it seems. Personal experience is key when it comes to understanding the Israeli and the Palestinian conflict. Before you decide that all Palestinians want every Jew dead, you should either do one of these three things: visit Israel and the Palestinian territories, look for neutral sources or sources from both Israeli and Palestinian media, or lastly shut up. I recommend the latter.

Is that about it?

NO!

[QUOTE=Vilepagan]It might be more accurate to say their actions were an out of proportion response.



QUOTE]

In t he old testiment God revealed his laws to Moses. Moses also wrote some laws concerning the Jewish People, which kept them united in their idenity as one people, sojourning in the desert and being exiled to other lands where other cultures and gods were everywhere. Jesus did not come to abolish the law, he fufilled it. And his Salvation promised by the prophets was not only for the Jews, but also for the Gentiles. And Gentiles do not have to follow all the customs of the Chosen People of God, because even to this day their customs keep them tied together as a people in foreign lands where people many times despise them.




Lets fight this war the liberal way. When the terrorists target and kill three innocent people, we will only kill three terrorists. LETS SEE IF THAT WINS US THE WAR!

Before you decide that all Palestinians want every Jew dead, you should either do one of these three things: visit Israel and the Palestinian territories, look for neutral sources or sources from both Israeli and Palestinian media........

gmsisko only knows one thing about the conflict; ""Yahweh (my god is) good, Mohammed (their god is) evil.""

But on the topic of neutral sources.........looking for news that in not overtly pro-Israeli would mean looking for a media source outside the U.S.

The Corporate mass Media in the U.S. is incredibly biased in favor of Israel.

I see we're now quoting the Bible,remember,Isreali aggression is done,soley with free armaments with the USA,its time these munitions were banned from export to agressive countrys.

illegally occupying ha ha ha ..............

Correct me if I m worng, but I believe that all
of the Israli land was either given to them by the UN, or won by Israel in war.
(Like the little 7 day war where many Islamic Nations ganged up on Israel, and Israel handed their asses to them by some miracle)The UN divided the land, more or less evenly, between the Israelis and Palestinians. And yes, Israel gained territory during the subsequent wars. However, just because they won the land in war does not make the occupation of those lands legal. Nor does it make it morally right.

Last time I checked a history book the British were simply granted control of Palestine by the Versailles Peace Conference.
That doesn't detract from the fact that Britain owned the land and could do whatever they pleased with it.

I see we're now quoting the Bible,remember,Isreali aggression is done,soley with free armaments with the USA,

Don't be silly, we never give away weapons for free.

That doesn't detract from the fact that Britain owned the land and could do whatever they pleased with it.

Sure it does. I may control my apartment, but that doesn't mean that I can do whatever I want with it.

Sure it does. I may control my apartment, but that doesn't mean that I can do whatever I want with it.
From my understanding it was under their ownership, not some sort of "lease on the land." The apartment analogy doesn't hold up, as they could indeed do whatever they wanted with it.

That doesn't detract from the fact that Britain owned the land....

Nothing I have ever read gave me to understand that Britain **owned** that nation.

Nothing I have ever read gave me to understand that Britain **owned** that nation.
Which is where the confusion stems, as of now I retract all my statements regarding Palestine and Britain. I did a check of me ol' library for a bit.
::leaves allforums, lost in a book::

Maybe you haven't noticed, but please open your eyes long enough to see
that Israel is surrounded by hostile nations. These HOSTILE NATIONS are bent on the destruction of Israel.

In light of this fact, Israel must have damn sharp teeth. The US has provided these teeth for Israel.

I see we're now quoting the Bible,remember,Isreali aggression is done,soley with free armaments with the USA,its time these munitions were banned from export to agressive countrys.

Yes, the God of Israel sent his Son to live a sinless life, and die for all sinners.

Allah requires that his people kill all no believers. Who is good, and who is bad?


gmsisko only knows one thing about the conflict; ""Yahweh (my god is) good, Mohammed (their god is) evil.""

But on the topic of neutral sources.........looking for news that in not overtly pro-Israeli would mean looking for a media source outside the U.S.

The Corporate mass Media in the U.S. is incredibly biased in favor of Israel.

Maybe you haven't noticed, but please open your eyes long enough to see
that Israel is surrounded by hostile nations. These HOSTILE NATIONS are bent on the destruction of Israel.

In light of this fact, Israel must have damn sharp teeth. The US has provided these teeth for Israel.


As far as I'm concerned, Egypt and Jordan have made peace with Israel. Saudia Arabia has already said Lebanon should solve the crisis by themselves. Iran is one country away from Israel. The only country they need to worry about is Syria.

It's tough to come away from any of these disputes with a belief other than one that "allah" is an evil presence in these situations. What good has been granted to that august presence? None recently, from what I can tell. It is not a loving presence, nor one given to peaceful solutions to problems faced by its' worshippers, only violence. What good comes from that?

Israel was created by and for the followers of Judaism, it has no historical or other reason to exist. The land was stolen from its rightful inhabitants and given to the Jews,to me the invaders are the ones who should be removed. I side with the Arabs on this one, I would not be happy if some cult was given the state next to me as their new homeland... Would You?

Maybe you haven't noticed, but please open your eyes long enough to see
that Israel is surrounded by hostile nations.

I fully recognize that fact.

Unlike you, however, I see that the hostility directed toward them is directed toward them for a very good reason.

Israel is illegally occupying (and carrying out genocide against) a nation.

These HOSTILE NATIONS are bent on the destruction of Israel.

Uhhh......yes, I would agree with that statement.

Similarly, the authorities in most nations are bent on halting child molestation.

The point being that when people (or large groups of people) do something truly reprehensible, other people will object.



The US has provided these teeth for Israel.

Yes. Despicably, it has.

Yes, the God of Israel sent his Son to live a sinless life, and die for all sinners.

Allah requires that his people kill all no believers. Who is good, and who is bad?Well here's something you have in common with Islamic fundamentalists - you both have the same screwed up interpretation of the Koran.

Allah requires that his people kill all no believers. Who is good, and who is bad?

I'll go with the answer that the deity (you know, Yahweh, your so-called "loving" deity) who ordered infants to be hacked to death with swords wins the ultimate prize for **being bad*.

But hey gmsisko!!....

....I'm perfectly willing to discuus the matter of --when it comes to imaginary supernatural beings-- what would constitute the most evil thing possible!! Let's get it out in the open, mon frere!!

Here's the deal; if you can think of or conceive of something, anything---in your wildest, most sadistic nightmares-- more despicable and inhuman that an all-powerful deity could do than ordering defenseless infants to be hacked to death with swords, PLEASE fucking enlighten me as to what it would be.

OK???????????

You are forgetting that Iran's leader said he intends to blow Israel off the map. (or should we just ignore that?)

You are also forgetting that it is in the religion of Islam to destroy all Jews, and Christians.


As far as I'm concerned, Egypt and Jordan have made peace with Israel. Saudia Arabia has already said Lebanon should solve the crisis by themselves. Iran is one country away from Israel. The only country they need to worry about is Syria.

Get off your illegally occupying crap. As I pointed out in another post it just isn't true.
As far as geonicide, Israel has Nukes and Tatcital Nukes. If they wanted to commit geonicide, they would have already done it. You are way way over the top.

I fully recognize that fact.

Unlike you, however, I see that the hostility directed toward them is directed toward them for a very good reason.

Israel is illegally occupying (and carrying out genocide against) a nation.



Uhhh......yes, I would agree with that statement.

Similarly, the authorities in most nations are bent on halting child molestation.

The point being that when people (or large groups of people) do something truly reprehensible, other people will object.





Yes. Despicably, it has.

have already pointed out the diffenences between the old and new testiments.

Becides, it takes more faith to believe that the Earth and human life, and brain matter, and the complex eye came from a big blob in the sky.




I'll go with the answer that the deity (you know, Yahweh, your so-called "loving" deity) who ordered infants to be hacked to death with swords wins the ultimate prize for **being bad*.

But hey gmsisko!!....

....I'm perfectly willing to discuus the matter of --when it comes to imaginary supernatural beings-- what would constitute the most evil thing possible!! Let's get it out in the open, mon frere!!

Here's the deal; if you can think of or conceive of something, anything---in your wildest, most sadistic nightmares-- more despicable and inhuman that an all-powerful deity could do than ordering defenseless infants to be hacked to death with swords, PLEASE fucking enlighten me as to what it would be.

OK???????????

You are forgetting that Iran's leader said he intends to blow Israel off the map. (or should we just ignore that?)

You are also forgetting that it is in the religion of Islam to destroy all Jews, and Christians.
The Israel statement by Iran was a terrible mistake in my opinion,any support Iran had in the non Muslim World went out the window after that.

have already pointed out the diffenences between the old and new testiments.

That is no answer.

The fact of whether He ordered it in the Old Testament or the New is irrelevant to the question.

Now....if you can think of or conceive of anything more despicable and inhuman than an all-powerful deity ordering defenseless infants to be hacked to death with swords, PLEASE tell me what it might be.

THEN you tell me about how some other deity is "bad" or "evil".

You are forgetting that Iran's leader said he intends to blow Israel off the map. (or should we just ignore that?)

The Israel statement by Iran was a terrible mistake in my opinion...

Don't get too excited, paul.

1) Ahmadinejad's remark was no more hate-filled or inflammatory than what many rightwingers in the US are saying about nuking several countries in the Middle East...

and

2) gmsisko's allegation that Ahmadinejad stated --""he intends to blow Israel off the map""-- is an outright fabrication.

He did not say that.

You are forgetting that Iran's leader said he intends to blow Israel off the map. (or should we just ignore that?)

You are also forgetting that it is in the religion of Islam to destroy all Jews, and Christians.


O...really? Please elaborate since you know so much about the Muslim religon.

And while you're at it, sisko, perhaps you could explain why Israel's occupation of Palestinian territory is not illegal.

He did say he intends to destroy Israel.

Who cares what some right wingers are saying.

The President of this great nation is not talking about nuking several countries.

Ahmadiejad is the leader of Iran. Those right wingers do not control a country.

Please be fair and compair apples to apples.


Don't get too excited, paul.

1) Ahmadinejad's remark was no more hate-filled or inflammatory than what many rightwingers in the US are saying about nuking several countries in the Middle East...

and

2) gmsisko's allegation that Ahmadinejad stated --""he intends to blow Israel off the map""-- is an outright fabrication.

He did not say that.

Didn't they win it in a war? Please explain why it is illegal.


And while you're at it, sisko, perhaps you could explain why Israel's occupation of Palestinian territory is not illegal.

Israel occupied areas of Palestine after war.
Russia occupied parts of Europe after war.
The difference is....................................

He did say he intends to destroy Israel.

Your allegation that Ahmadinejad stated --""he intends to blow Israel off the map""-- is an outright fabrication.

Didn't they win it in a war? Please explain why it is illegal.

It's illegal because it's apratheid. They destroy homes for Palestinians and build new homes for Israeli settlers.They place roadblocks at almost every corner. Pregnant women and the elderly die while they wait for the long lines of traffic to pass through these roadblocks. Palestinian children die from dialysis because their need for medical attention is absent. They build a massive wall that is meant keep sucide bombers out of Israel but in reality it's a landgrab and it keeps many Palestinians from going to school or work. They bulldoze olive trees, an important economic and agricultural good to Palestinians. And under this military occupied area, most palestinians live in poverty and innocent civilians are killed.

He did say he intends to destroy Israel.
Quote his words and cite the source.

Please be fair and compair apples to apples.
Compare*

Didn't they win it in a war? Please explain why it is illegal.
No, Israelis did not win their country in a war. Now explain how it is not illegal.

Didn't they win it in a war? Please explain why it is illegal.It's illegal because of UN Security Council Resolution 242 (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Resolution_242) and UN Security Council Resolution 338 (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/UN_Security_Council_Resolution_338).

Didn't they win it in a war? Please explain why it is illegal.

Sisko, we have told you why its illegal. You still haven't explained why it isnt. And I still wanna know more about Muslims wanting to kill off Christians and Jews since you're an expert in the Muslim religon.

Ahmadinejad: Wipe Israel off map

Wednesday 26 October 2005, 19:03 Makka Time, 16:03 GMT

Iranian President Mahmoud Ahmadinejad has openly called for Israel to be wiped off the map.

"The establishment of the Zionist regime was a move by the world oppressor against the Islamic world," the president told a conference in Tehran on Wednesday, entitled The World without Zionism.

"The skirmishes in the occupied land are part of a war of destiny. The outcome of hundreds of years of war will be defined in Palestinian land," he said.
"As the Imam said, Israel must be wiped off the map," said Ahmadinejad, referring to Iran's revolutionary leader Ayat Allah Khomeini.


Here's your source (http://english.aljazeera.net/NR/exeres/15E6BF77-6F91-46EE-A4B5-A3CE0E9957EA.htm)

right...what he is saying is that Israel should never have existed in the first place. Its should be 'undone' as a country' because other people were living there before its creation. Its creation has created nothing but bloodshed and strife for jews, christians and muslims alike. No where in there does he say that it should be blown up with military force. In fact his preface to the 'wipe off the map' clearly infers he doesn't think Israel should exist, not that it should be bombed int oblivion.

You need to learn to infer meaning instead of being a knee-jerk reationary accepting any statement the media labels 'outragous'...

I've posted the explainatio of this along with less inflamatory interpretations many times before. You obviously have an agenda regardless of facts...maybe your can kill 2600 americans too...

Did you read the article? From the tone of your post, I would guess not.

The current prez of Iran spoke with much vehemence.

You need to learn to infer meaning instead of being a knee-jerk reationary accepting any statement the media labels 'outragous'...
How do you know your inference is correct? He alluded to a speech by Ayat, and the phrase "wiped off the map" evokes violent imagery.

But, this statement does not mean, to me, that he "intends to destroy Israel."(gmsisko) It is simply a little crowd-pleaser for his speech, a general call for the dissolution of Israel, not a war cry for Iran.

"Comments attributed to Mahmoud Ahmadinejad, the Iranian President, saying he wanted to see Israel "wiped off the map" were taken out of context, according to his foreign minister."

http://english.aljazeera.net/NR/exeres/F497A302-79E2-46D7-9416-DBC764F69F9B.htm

Dispute over Iranian President Mahmoud Ahmadinejad's comments on Israel
On October 26, 2005, Iranian President Ahmadinehad gave a speech at the "World without Zionism" conference in Tehran. In the speech, Ahmadinehad addressed the history of relations between the Islamic and non-Islamic worlds, Israel as the current focus of this relationship, the recognition of Israel by Islamic countries, and visions of the future of Zionism. In the speech, he referred to a statement that had been made by Imam (Ayatollah) Khomeini, calling it "very wise" and saying,"the issue of Palestine is not an issue on which we can compromise": "een rezhim-e ishghalgar-e Qods bayad az safheh-ye ruzgar mahv shavad."

The phrase was translated by the New York Times as Israel,"must be wiped off the map". A similar translation was provided by the Associated Press and Al-Jazeera[38]. Iran's official IRNA news agency [39] and all official translations of Mr. Ahmadinejad's statement, including a description of it on his Web site (www.president.ir/eng/), refer to wiping Israel away[40]. MEMRI translated the phrase as, 'This regime that is occupying Qods [Jerusalem] must be eliminated from the pages of history"[41]. Many interpreted the speech as the expression of an Iranian threat against the state of Israel.

Cole objected to the use of the idiom, "wiped off the map", commenting that "no such idiom exists in Persian". He translated the phrase literally to mean the occupation of Jerusalem ( "Qods"), "must [vanish from] from the page of time." He interpreted the object of the statement to be the territories occupied by Israel in the 1967 War rather than the whole state of Israel. He interpreted Ahmadinejad's use of the phrase quoted not as a threat, but as a metaphor describing an inevitable and grand historical process culiminating in the end of the Zionist state. Sohrab Mahdavi, described by New York Times reporter Ethan Bronner as "one of Iran's most prominent translators," and Siamak Namazi, managing director of a Tehran consulting firm, who is bilingual, both say "wipe off" or "wipe away" is more accurate than "vanish" because the Persian verb is active and transitive. [40] Cole states that this is incorrect, however: "mahv shodan is in fact an intransitive verb construction. Shodan is to become. An mard khoshhal shodeh is 'that man became happy.' It is not a transitive verb. That is why mahv shodan is better translated 'vanish,' also an intransitive verb. The transitive is mahv kardan, to 'wipe out' or 'eliminate.'" Cole comments on the implications of the translation in the New York Times article: "The New York Times was told by supposed Persian language experts in Iran, and appears to believe, that mahv shodan is a transitive verb construct. It makes me a little worried about the state of grammar in Iran, and in the Persian speaking staff of the NYT, and also about its newsgathering prowess. If they cannot find out that shodan is intransitive, something well known in Persian grammar for thousands of years, you wonder what other assertions they are swallowing."[42] Cole indicates that he informed the New York Times of his claim before they printed the story, and continued: "I guess we academic Persianists are not trusted to know an intransitive verb when we see one."

The Guardian's Johnathan Steele commented on the controversy: "Starting with Juan Cole, and going via the New York Times' experts through MEMRI to the BBC's monitors, the consensus is that Ahmadinejad did not talk about any maps. He was, as I insisted in my original piece, offering a vague wish for the future.... The fact that he compared his desired option - the elimination of "the regime occupying Jerusalem" - with the fall of the Shah's regime in Iran makes it crystal clear that he is talking about regime change, not the end of Israel. As a schoolboy opponent of the Shah in the 1970's he surely did not favour Iran's removal from the page of time. He just wanted the Shah out. The same with regard to Israel."[43]

Prior to the publication of much of this analysis, Christopher Hitchens had attacked Cole's translation and interpretation, considering it to be a whitewash of Iranian threats to destroy Israel, especially in light of Iran's nuclear ambitions. [44]

Cole countered, "Ahmadinejad...has condemned mass killing of any sort and was not threatening military action (he is in any case not in command of the Iranian military). He compares his hope for an end to any Zionist regime in geographical Palestine to Ayatollah Khomeini's prediction that the Soviet Union would one day vanish. It wasn't a hope to kill Soviet citizens, but a desire for regime change." [45] Cole told the New York Times, "I am entirely aware that Ahmadinejad is hostile to Israel. The question is whether his intentions and capabilities would lead to a military attack, and whether therefore pre-emptive warfare is prescribed. I am saying no, and the boring philology is part of the reason for the no."

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Views_and_controversies_concerning_Juan_Cole#Dispu te_over_Iranian_President_Mahmoud_Ahmadinejad.27s_ comments_on_Israel

Israel occupied areas of Palestine after war.
Russia occupied parts of Europe after war.
The difference is....................................Russia was not attacked by, for example, Poland.
In 1967 Israel was attacked by 4 of its neighbors. Somehow Israel beat them back beyond their own borders.
What should they do after that? Give the land back? What's that, a "do-over"?
If you attack, you should understand that you risk losing, not just breaking even.




Here's a statement from the 1967 War:
"May 31: Iraqi President Rahman Aref announces: "This is our opportunity to wipe out the ignominy which has been with us since 1948. Our goal is clear--to wipe Israel off the map."

Sounds like Ahmadinejad. Oh that's right, he would never say such a thing.

Yes Brooks,understand that,'to the winner the spoils',but IMO the long game for peace and stability in the region would be a negotiated solution,this military exercise we see at present is going nowhere in regards to the Palestinian/Israeli situation.Its being directed more towards Hezbollah,but the civilian death toll is appaling.

right...what he is saying is that Israel should never have existed in the first place. Its should be 'undone' as a country' because other people were living there before its creation. Its creation has created nothing but bloodshed and strife for jews, christians and muslims alike. No where in there does he say that it should be blown up with military force. In fact his preface to the 'wipe off the map' clearly infers he doesn't think Israel should exist, not that it should be bombed int oblivion.

You need to learn to infer meaning instead of being a knee-jerk reationary accepting any statement the media labels 'outragous'...

I've posted the explainatio of this along with less inflamatory interpretations many times before. You obviously have an agenda regardless of facts...maybe your can kill 2600 americans too...

Typical 500lb response.....find anything you can to support those who want to destroy Isreal.

What Iran said about Isreal is extremely provactive. It's irrelevant who was there before Israel - Israel exists & isn't going away. American Indians were here in the US before us - does that mean we should give back the US to American Indians? What Iran should do, like the moderate states have done is accept Isreal & find ways to live in peace. There would be no more deaths if that was to occur.

1. this military exercise we see at present is going nowhere in regards to the Palestinian/Israeli situation.
2. Its being directed more towards Hezbollah,but the civilian death toll is appaling.1. This military exercise we see at present has nothing to do with the Palestinian/Israeli situation.

2. Israel specifically targets Hezbollah facilities, and has even dropped leaflets before some of these attacks. Hezbollah, on the other hand, launches their Kyatushas directly into Israeli cities with no specific targets, beyond population centers, in mind.
The problem is that Lebanon has been allowing terrorists safe haven within their borders after they attack Israel. They brought this upon themselves.