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500lbguerilla
07-07-2006, 03:58 PM
American Dream, American Nightmare
The greatness of the United States is unique—and not a model to be exported by narrow-minded nationalists.
http://www.msnbc.msn.com:80/id/13721928/site/newsweek/

July 5, 2006 - I spent the early morning yesterday in my Paris apartment re-reading George Orwell’s long essay, “Notes on Nationalism.” It was written in 1945, but seemed the right thing for this year’s Fourth of July when so many expressions of nationalism are in the air: the relatively benign World Cup competition, the blood-soaked tension between the Palestinians and Israelis and the ferocious violence of the war in Iraq.

Orwell wrote that nationalism is partly “the habit of assuming that human beings can be classified like insects.” He said it’s not to be confused with patriotism, which Orwell defined as “devotion to a particular place and a particular way of life, which one believes to be the best in the world but has no wish to force upon other people.”

July 4, I would argue, is a patriotic holiday in just that sense-a true celebration of so much that makes the United States of America unique. It’s the party thrown by a nation of immigrants to mark the creation of something new on the face of the earth, a society devoted not to the past but to the future-the incredibly elegant vision of “certain inalienable rights” to “life, liberty and the pursuit of happiness.”

That’s what the flags and the fireworks, the anthems, the civilians with hands on hearts, the soldiers at attention and saluting, the embassy receptions, and, yeah, not a few mind-bending beer-drinking binges, are most often about. I think most of us know in our hearts that the more we live up to our particular way of life, the more attractive it will be to others and the more they are likely to use its ideals to better their own lives. That’s worth saluting, for sure, and raising a glass, too.

But American nationalism, unlike American patriotism, is different-and dangerous.

The second part of Orwell’s definition tells you why. Nationalism is the habit of identifying oneself with a single nation or an idea, “placing it beyond good and evil and recognizing no other duty than that of advancing its interests.” Patriotism is essentially about ideas and pride. Nationalism is about emotion and blood. The nationalist’s thoughts “always turn on victories, defeats, triumphs and humiliations. … Nationalism is power-hunger tempered by self-deception.”

One inevitable result, wrote Orwell, is vast and dangerous miscalculation based on the assumption that nationalism makes not only right but might-and invincibility: “Political and military commentators, like astrologers, can survive almost any mistake, because their more devoted followers do not look to them for an appraisal of the facts but for the stimulation of nationalistic loyalties.” When Orwell derides “a silly and vulgar glorification of the actual process of war,” well, one wishes Fox News and Al Jazeera would take note.

For Orwell, the evils of nationalism were not unique to nations, but shared by a panoply of “isms” common among the elites of his day: “Communism, political Catholicism, Zionism, anti-Semitism, Trotskyism and Pacifism.” Today we could drop the communists and Trotskyites, perhaps, while adding Islamism and neo-conservatism. The same tendencies would apply, especially “indifference to reality.”

“All nationalists have the power of not seeing resemblances between similar sets of facts,” said Orwell. “Actions are held to be good or bad, not on their own merits but according to who does them, and there is almost no kind of outrage-torture, the use of hostages, forced labor, mass deportations, imprisonment without trial, forgery, assassination, the bombing of civilians-which does not change its moral color when committed by ‘our’ side.… The nationalist not only does not disapprove of atrocities committed by his own side, but has a remarkable capacity for not even hearing about them.”

It’s this aspect of nationalism that peacemakers in the Middle East find so utterly confounding. The Israelis and the Palestinians, Iraq’s Sunnis and Kurds and Shiites, Iranians and Americans have developed nationalist narratives that have almost nothing in common except a general chronology. “In nationalist thought there are facts which are both true and untrue, known and unknown,” Orwell wrote, in a spooky foreshadowing of Defense Secretary Donald Rumsfeld’s nationalist musings. “A known fact may be so unbearable that it is habitually pushed aside and not allowed to enter into logical processes, or on the other hand it may enter into every calculation and yet never be admitted as a fact, even in one’s own mind.”

Is Israel’s current strategy of crippling the rudimentary infrastructure of Gaza, forcing one million people to suffer for the kidnapping of one Israeli soldier, in any way proportional? No, nor humane, nor very relevant to winning his release. But it fits into a nationalist narrative that says the only way to deal with Palestinians is to hand them one humiliating collective defeat after another. Is a Muslim fanatic’s slaughter of innocent Israelis at a night club an act of heroic martyrdom? What about the denial of the Holocaust by Iran’s president? The only way to justify such talk is with the particularly cruel know-nothingism of our times.

There are certainly patriotic Israelis and Palestinians who do realize that they have to allow for each other’s fears and each other’s pride. But patriotism is in short supply on both sides, and nationalism is rampant. Orwell would have understood.

One vital aspect of the debate about patriotism and nationalism in the modern world, however, slipped by this great British apostle of humane logic when he was writing more than 60 years ago, and that’s the critical peculiarity of the way Americans see themselves and their national identity.

Precisely because American society is built on an idea of the future, created by people who came to America for no other purpose than moving forward, American interest in the past-even its own past-is limited. You are what you can create in the U.S.A., what you have now, and what you are going to have.

We are, yes, very materialistic. You could see that in the long list of corporate sponsors for yesterday’s July 4 reception at the American ambassador’s residence in Paris. But much more importantly, you can hear materialism in the way we talk about almost everything, from the family we have, to the faith we have, the house we have, the cars and diplomas and the jobs we have. We pushed westward because we wanted to have land, which was almost free, and we wanted to have the freedom to forget whatever histories bound us to the past. Ours has become a society based on “having” in a way that’s almost indistinguishable from “the American dream,” or indeed, “the pursuit of happiness.” There’s no need to apologize. That’s what makes us who we are.

But in much of the old world, people do not “have” families; they belong to families, which belong sometimes to clans and tribes (the extended families we inevitably describe in pejorative terms). Those families belong to a land and a faith-and a history of that land and faith-that may go back thousands of years. Their patriotism is in their blood, not just their hopes, and so is their nationalism.

As we saw in the Balkans in the 1990s, this history-driven, blood-driven nationalism can become brutally racist and explosively xenophobic: we belong, you do not. In Africa, the forces of tribally based nationalism constantly threaten the future of a continent where most national borders were drawn by foreigners. In Iraq, well, we Americans have helped tear apart a state that now shudders at the brink of utter failure in the face of ever-strengthening sectarian and racial nationalisms.

What does not help in the process of encouraging peace (because no one is going to “bring” peace), is the notion that we Americans can apply our nationalist vision to people who never chose to participate in our immigrant aspirations to begin with: people who feel safer, stronger and saner in their worlds of belonging than in our world of having. When we make that mistake, threatening to the core their sense of who they are, all we do is invite hatred.

“The pursuit of happiness” is, indeed, what the Fourth of July is all about, and I’d like to see that wonderfully vague and evocative principle accepted universally as an inalienable right. But let’s never imagine that the pursuit of happiness is, everywhere, the same as the pursuit of the American dream. That’s something we can share, but never impose.
© 2006 Newsweek, Inc.

http://www.msnbc.msn.com:80/id/13721928/site/newsweek/

Jester
07-09-2006, 01:00 AM
Unfortunately, there are too many people who are unable to distinguish between the two conecpts, or are simply unaware of any differences between them. Some view a lack of nationalism as a lack of patriotism, while others see any show of patriotism as a sign of nationalism.

Vilepagan
07-09-2006, 08:57 AM
Nice article 500.

Freethinker
07-09-2006, 11:22 AM
“All nationalists have the power of not seeing resemblances between similar sets of facts,” said Orwell. “Actions are held to be good or bad, not on their own merits but according to who does them, and there is almost no kind of outrage --torture, the use of hostages, forced labor, mass deportations, imprisonment without trial, forgery, assassination, the bombing of civilians-- which does not change its moral color when committed by ‘our’ side. .…The nationalist not only does not disapprove of atrocities committed by his own side, but has a remarkable capacity for not even hearing about them.”

This exactly describes people like Darth, slim, gmsisko and Travh20.

And sadly--to this nation's detriment-- it also describes millions of other rightwing personalities who think in exactly the same ""My country right or wrong!"" way.

DanF
07-09-2006, 02:01 PM
Ask yourself what you are doing to make the changes you think are necessary.

Freethinker
07-09-2006, 06:25 PM
Ask yourself what you are doing to make the changes you think are necessary.

I asked.

The answer was "nothing".

If the car your're a passenger in runs off a cliff, you might WISH that the driver had changed course, you might REGRET that the driver was so supidly negligent, you might WANT to change the ultimate outcome of what is occuring, but you will not be able to.

And all the well-meant intentions of making "changes" are at that point useless.

America has --like Germany did several decades ago-- now succumbed to extreme nationalism, warmongering and fascism.........and the demise is well under way.

The economy ---and the very survival of the nation itself--- is in serious trouble, because the vast wealth of the nation has for the past 50 years been turned to the business of creating a massive, invunerable war machine.

DanF
07-09-2006, 09:07 PM
I asked.

The answer was "nothing"....
...And all the well-meant intentions of making "changes" are at that point useless.
================================================== =====

Why? The Democratic and Republican politicians got us into this mess. Get rid of them, starting on the local and state level. Vote this way and encourage others to.

Darth Be'lal
07-09-2006, 09:29 PM
Freethinker's lifted quote......

torture, the use of hostages, forced labor, mass deportations, imprisonment without trial, forgery, assassination, the bombing of civilians-- which does not change its moral color when committed by ‘our’ side. .…The nationalist not only does not disapprove of atrocities committed by his own side, but has a remarkable capacity for not even hearing about them.”

I don't recall ever supporting any of these acts by our armed forces or by our Nation.

You take the occassional nitwit who does engage in torture at Abu Ghraib and try to pass it off par for the course interogation of the U.S.

Captured terrorists aren't protected by the Geneva Convention nor are they U.S. citizens, they can't be released during time of war, nor do they have a right to an American style trial there is a difference. But then, this whole argument is just another Get Bush thing and you guys on the Left are more than happy to overlook real torture and execution by terrorists when they capture soldiers, aid workers, reporters and anyone else they can make an example of. If you ever showed outrage over what the "insurgents" to those they capture, I could give your argument more weight, dammit.

The bombing of civilians. The U.S. does NOT intentionally kill civilians, period. You take unintentional casualties that happen in ANY war and stretch into a terror campaign against Iraqi and Afghani civilians, which is not only wrong and inaccurate, but disgusting to boot, dammit.

“The pursuit of happiness” is, indeed, what the Fourth of July is all about, and I’d like to see that wonderfully vague and evocative principle accepted universally as an inalienable right. But let’s never imagine that the pursuit of happiness is, everywhere, the same as the pursuit of the American dream. That’s something we can share, but never impose.

I can agree with the idea of having the rights, freedoms and dignities we enjoy here in the States to become universal.

I can't believe the utter silliness of that we're somehow "imposing" freedom on others. Name me one times in history when a conquering nation EVER "imposed" freedom on other people. Rarer still would be people who would stand up and say, "no, no, we don't want freedom, we just love our tyrant(s) who takes our money, wealth, freedom and security away from us. This is like living in the twilight zone. First, it was Germany being mad at us for pulling troops OUT of their country, NOW it's the idea we're "imposing" the very thing every single human on the planet would want for themselves. The only question is whether or not they're willing to share the freedom they have with others, dammit.

The U.S has NOT "imposed" freedom on anybody. We've merely removed impediment to freedom in Afghanistan and Iraq. Saddam and Al Qeada were impediments to freedom that weren't going to go away by themselves, dammit.

Cromagnon
07-10-2006, 03:23 AM
The Soviet Union fell because they (The Party) used all the wealth of the whole country to have the military might that they had and to support leftist governments around the world, money that never came back to that nation. Now, this could well happen to the USA too. Some will say no. But what are you going to do with all that crap, submarines, aircraft carriers, airplanes, missiles, besides paying high wages to their military personnel. All that is not productive... Well maybe I am wrong, they could well be used to conquer and steal natural resources from far places.

Mr. Shaman
07-10-2006, 04:28 AM
America has --like Germany did several decades ago-- now succumbed to extreme nationalism, warmongering and fascism.........
<....just a few of the "perks" of being lazy-as-Hell.....>

http://www.terranova.net/content/images/goering.jpg

*

......and the demise is well under way.

The economy ---and the very survival of the nation itself--- is in serious trouble, because the vast wealth of the nation has for the past 50 years been turned to the business of creating a massive, invunerable war machine.
Everything is temporary.

Freethinker
07-10-2006, 02:03 PM
“All nationalists have the power of not seeing resemblances between similar sets of facts,” said Orwell. “Actions are held to be good or bad, not on their own merits but according to who does them, and there is almost no kind of outrage --torture, the use of hostages, forced labor, mass deportations, imprisonment without trial, forgery, assassination, the bombing of civilians-- which does not change its moral color when committed by ‘our’ side. .…The nationalist not only does not disapprove of atrocities committed by his own side, but has a remarkable capacity for not even hearing about them.”


I don't recall ever supporting any of these acts by our armed forces or by our Nation.

Yeah....that is the perennial excuse of you and the rest of your rightwing ilk; --"Well hey...I didn't personally support any of that stuff!"

The point is --and try as you might you can NOT deny this-- that collectively, that oh-so "patriotic" band of folk on the Right in America-- by their ceaseless support for and excuse making for anything and everything that the rightwing political leadership does-- ARE in de facto support of the actions in question.

If the Rightwingers in America were not so willing --even eager-- to turn a blind eye to all the instances of torture, imprisonment without trial, assassination and the bombing of civilians that have been taking place, America's political leaders would be FORCED to take responsibility for those actions.......and possibly be brought to trial to be made to answer for them.



You take the occassional nitwit who does engage in torture at Abu Ghraib and try to pass it off par for the course interogation of the U.S.

Nice try at misdirection.....again.

This is NOT about the military personel at Abu Ghraib who committed the torture. This criticism is about the political LEADERS ---scumbags like Donald Rumsfeld-- who explicitly SANCTIONED and APPROVED OF the torture being done. And there is evidence too that not only did Rumsfeld approve it and sanction it, but that the corruption runs all the way to the top.

But then, this whole argument is just another Get Bush thing and you guys on the Left are more than happy to overlook real torture and execution by terrorists when they capture soldiers, aid workers, reporters

NO ONE is "ignoring" the torture done by the oither side.

But this constant refrain of your that -- "Well, <sniff sniff>, the other guys are doing it too!!!" --- is very illustrative of where your sense of justice lies.

Your implication here seems to be that --"Well, they will torture our people that they capture, so there's nothing wrong with our torturing them!"

The problem with that way of rationalizing things is that it reveals the USA as being no better than the terrorists that you and your ilk look upon as such **evil** people.

The bombing of civilians. The U.S. does NOT intentionally kill civilians, period.

Wrong.

The US carries out action in which there is a near 100% propability that if the "bad guy" targets are hurt or killed, innocent people near them will be also.......which equates to the US intentionally doing it.

You take unintentional casualties that happen in ANY war and stretch into a terror campaign against Iraqi and Afghani civilians, which is not only wrong and inaccurate, but disgusting to boot

a) they know going in that when they drop bombs from thousands of feet up, that there in no way to surgically kill only the "bad guys" that they are after.... so, the US is knowingly killing innocent civilians.

Meaning the argument is correct and accurate. Dammit.

I can't believe the utter silliness of that we're somehow "imposing" freedom on others. Name me one times in history when a conquering nation EVER "imposed" freedom on other people.

The real argument here is much more about the fact that your ConservaFascist heroes in the Bush Administration CLAIM to be in Iraq to install "freedom".....when in fact what they are actually doing is spreading an obscene and unbelievable amount of death and destruction (which they could give a fuck less about doing) so that they can have control of the oil resources over there.


The U.S has NOT "imposed" freedom on anybody.

On that, we agree entirely.

What they incessantly *impose* on other nations is FAR more akin to slavery than to 'freedom'....i.e., what is actually being *imposed* is the ConservaFascist agenda; that they will kill ANY human being --man, woman or child; yellow, red, black, white or brown-- at any time for any reason, if that human being is unfortunate to get between the American Corporate State and their oil profits.

Saddam and Al Qeada were impediments to freedom that weren't going to go away by themselves

All that has happened to the unfortunate victims of American imperialism in Afghanistan and Iraq is that they've been forced to trade the Devil that they knew for the one they do not know.

Jester
07-10-2006, 05:58 PM
“All nationalists have the power of not seeing resemblances between similar sets of facts,” said Orwell. “Actions are held to be good or bad, not on their own merits but according to who does them, and there is almost no kind of outrage-torture, the use of hostages, forced labor, mass deportations, imprisonment without trial, forgery, assassination, the bombing of civilians-which does not change its moral color when committed by ‘our’ side.… The nationalist not only does not disapprove of atrocities committed by his own side, but has a remarkable capacity for not even hearing about them.”
I think he hit the nail right on the head here. A nationalist will be willing to stoop to the level of those he condemns and still claim to be morally superior to them. In their minds, this moral superiority comes not from their actions, but simply from their belonging to a certain nation, race or religion. Furthermore, any wrong-doing by a nationalist's own side is inevitably justified, or at least played down, by saying that the other side is guilty of doing the same.

You will find examples of this on this forum itself.