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googs
07-05-2006, 11:07 PM
Push for simpler spelling persists
By DARLENE SUPERVILLE, Associated Press Writer
Wed Jul 5, 5:23 PM ET

WASHINGTON - When "say," "they" and "weigh" rhyme, but "bomb," "comb" and "tomb" don't, wuudn't it maek mor sens to spel wurdz the wae thae sound?

Those in favor of simplified spelling say children would learn faster and illiteracy rates would drop. Opponents say a new system would make spelling even more confusing.

Eether wae, the consept has yet to capcher th publix imajinaeshun.

It's been 100 years since Andrew Carnegie helped create the Simplified Spelling Board to promote a retooling of written English and President Theodore Roosevelt tried to force the government to use simplified spelling in its publications. But advocates aren't giving up.

They even picket the national spelling bee finals, held every year in Washington, costumed as bumble bees and hoisting signs that say "Enuf is enuf but enough is too much" or "I'm thru with through."

Thae sae th bee selebraets th ability of a fue stoodents to master a dificult sistem that stumps meny utherz hoo cuud do just as wel if speling were simpler.

"It's a very difficult thing to get something accepted like this," says Alan Mole, president of the American Literacy Council, which favors an end to "illogical spelling." The group says English has 42 sounds spelled in a bewildering 400 ways.

Americans doen't aulwaez go for whut's eezy — witnes th faeluer of th metric sistem to cach on. But propoenents of simpler speling noet that a smatering of aulterd spelingz hav maed th leep into evrydae ues.

Doughnut also is donut; colour, honour and labour long ago lost the British "u" and the similarly derived theatre and centre have been replaced by the easier-to-sound-out theater and center.

"The kinds of progress that we're seeing are that someone will spell night 'nite' and someone will spell through 'thru,'" Mole said. "We try to show where these spellings are used and to show dictionary makers that they are used so they will include them as alternate spellings."

"Great changes have been made in the past. Systems can change," a hopeful Mole said.

Lurning English reqierz roet memory rather than lojic, he sed.

In languages with phonetically spelled words, like German or Spanish, children learn to spell in weeks instead of months or years as is sometimes the case with English, Mole said.

But education professor Donald Bear said to simplify spelling would probably make it more difficult because words get meaning from their prefixes, suffixes and roots.

"Students come to understand how meaning is preserved in the way words are spelled," said Bear, director of the E.L. Cord Foundation Center for Learning and Literacy at the University of Nevada, Reno.

Th cuntry's larjest teecherz uennyon, wuns a suporter, aulso objects.

Michael Marks, a member of the National Education Association's executive committee, said learning would be disrupted if children had to switch to a different spelling system. "It may be more trouble than it's worth," said Marks, a debate and theater teacher at Hattiesburg High School in Mississippi.

E-mail and text messages are exerting a similar tug on the language, sharing some elements with the simplified spelling movement while differing in other ways. Electronic communications stress shortcuts like "u" more than phonetics. Simplified spelling is not always shorter than regular spelling — sistem instead of system, hoep instead of hope.

Carnegie tried to moov thingz along in 1906 when he helpt establish and fund th speling bord. He aulso uezd simplified speling in his correspondens, and askt enywun hoo reported to him to do the saem.

A filanthropist, he becaem pashunet about th ishoo after speeking with Melvil Dewey, a speling reform activist and Dewey Desimal sistem inventor hoo simplified his furst naem bi droping "le" frum Melville.

Roosevelt tried to get the government to adopt simpler spellings for 300 words but Congress blocked him. He used simple spellings in all White House memos, pressing forward his effort to "make our spelling a little less foolish and fantastic."

The Chicago Tribune aulso got into th act, uezing simpler spelingz in th nuezpaeper for about 40 years, ending in 1975. Plae-riet George Bernard Shaw, hoo roet moest of his mateerial in shorthand, left muny in his wil for th development of a nue English alfabet.

Carnegie, Dewey, Roosevelt and Shaw's work followed attempts by Benjamin Franklin, Daniel Webster and Mark Twain to advance simpler spelling. Twain lobbied The Associated Press at its 1906 annual meeting to "adopt and use our simplified forms and spread them to the ends of the earth." AP declined.

But for aul th hi-proefiel and skolarly eforts, the iedeea of funy-luuking but simpler spelingz didn't captivaet the masez then — or now.

"I think that the average person simply did not see this as a needed change or a necessary change or something that was ... going to change their lives for the better," said Marilyn Cocchiola Holt, manager of the Pennsylvania department of the Carnegie Library of Pittsburgh.

Carnegie, hoo embraest teknolojy, died in 1919, wel befor sel foenz. Had he livd, he probably wuud hav bin pleezd to no that milyonz of peepl send text and instant mesejez evry dae uezing thair oen formz of simplified speling: "Hav a gr8 day!"

___

http://news.yahoo.com/s/ap/20060705/ap_on_re_us/simpl_wurdz;_ylt=AvUD.WHXmqxADZdVvsR6Rw4DW7oF;_ylu =X3oDMTBhZDhxNDFzBHNlYwNtZW5ld3M-

Cromagnon
07-06-2006, 12:04 AM
The History Channel had, not long ago, a special about the English language, and why this happened, having more than one sound especially with the vowels, the root of this took place centuries ago when the scholars got together to give a common pronunciation and spelling to the English words, at that time the "liberals" wanted a simple English, but the conservatives wanted to keep old sounds that came from several languages that invasion after invasion left their words from Nordic and Germanic, Latin, and the early French in the English of those days. The conservatives kept the old spelling and pronunciation, but so did the "liberals" with their idea, so since then English has words where the vowels have one sound for some and another sound for the others.
I always argue with my wife about these sounds, and explain that it is easier in my language where a, e, i, o and u, has always the same a, e i, o, u sound.

Changing the spelling of the English words won't happen, at least not in the USA, it would be like making people accept Celsius and the Metric system, this Fahrenheit system doesn't make any sense to me, but people have gotten used to it and they won't change it, the Metric is also better to figure out since all measures are multiples of 10 going up or down the scales.

es347fan
07-06-2006, 04:49 AM
The Metric system makes a lot of sense, and should have been put into use here long ago. I could live with the Celsius scale. I'd have a much more difficult time living with, let alone using, that gibberish touted in the article as simpler spelling.

paulc
07-06-2006, 07:30 AM
Oddly enough,they use the Celsius scale here,tho I prefer Fahrenheit,I think if someone tells you its 22c,it dosent mean much to most of us,were 71f does,which is what it is here at present.

Frogger
07-06-2006, 07:52 AM
Spelling is constantly changing. We no longer spell it colour, or kerb. We use color and curb. Lots of words have changed informally and over time will change formally. We now ride on Thruways rather than throughways. We are careful to not step in dog feces when we are out walking rather than not stepping in dog faeces.

Language is a dynamic thing, constantly changing. There is no need for a formal simplification of spelling. It will happen and has happened naturally over time.

rendova
07-06-2006, 07:58 AM
It's not that much trouble to learn how to spell kerrectley.

And you might get a gold star on your paper too.

Selah
07-06-2006, 08:11 AM
Those in favor of simplified spelling say children would learn faster and illiteracy rates would drop. Opponents say a new system would make spelling even more confusing.

Our tax dollars at work! The Oakland School District is taking the lead in simplifying spelling and speech. It seems to me that these kids are doomed to 2nd Class citizen status upon graduation:

Ah done pledges allegiance
to da Flag
o' da United States
o' America
an' ta da Republic
fo' which it stands,
one Nation, Beneaf God,
indimuhvisible,
wiff liberty an'
justice fo' all.

Frogger
07-06-2006, 08:22 AM
Aoccdrnig to a rscheearch at Cmabrigde Uinervtisy, it deosn't mttaer in waht oredr the ltteers in a wrod are, the olny iprmoetnt tihng is taht the frist and lsat ltteer be at the rghit pclae. The rset can be a toatl mses and you can sitll raed it wouthit porbelm. Tihs is bcuseae the huamn mnid deos not raed ervey lteter by istlef, but the wrod as a wlohe.

es347fan
07-06-2006, 09:25 AM
Frogger - you better lay off that crap you're snorting/smoking/dropping or drinking. It's going to make you null & void. Already your IQ appears to have dropped by 30% ...

paulc
07-06-2006, 09:47 AM
When I was a kid and left school I had to go and register for work,which is the norm here,I remember this elderly woman facing me at the desk,looking at me over her glasses,she said,''If you refuse to speak the Queens English,I will terminate this interview'',never have been able to work it out,but I always remembered it.

Selah
07-06-2006, 10:10 AM
Is the Queen's English the 'Ebonics' of Europe?

paulc
07-06-2006, 10:31 AM
Oh who knows,just some old woman with illusions of Empire probably

LionelHutz
07-06-2006, 11:11 AM
The spelling of a lot of words will probably change gradually over time and I don't have a problem with that. I just don't like the spellings changing so that kids that don't care about spelling can feel good about themselves.

Cromagnon
07-06-2006, 03:03 PM
Oddly enough,they use the Celsius scale here,tho I prefer Fahrenheit, I think if someone tells you its 22c, it doesn't mean much to most of us, were 71f does, which is what it is here at present.

A while ago, I was wondering how was it that Mr. Fahrenheit decided that 32 °F was the freezing point for water. So "Ask Jeeves" game the answer, Mr. Fahrenheit used water and mixed it with salt at the rate of 50% salt and 50% water (where in nature one finds that combination?), and when this salted water friezed that was his 0°F, so normal water friezed at around 32°F. Now Mr. Celsius used normal available fresh water (actually distiled water) and established 0°C for freezing and 100°C when it (normal water) boils, I think this makes more sense, but it is all about how one gets used to or raised with. Most countries use °C, and I believe that only US still uses °F.

rendova
07-06-2006, 03:31 PM
When I was a kid and left school I had to go and register for work,which is the norm here,I remember this elderly woman facing me at the desk,looking at me over her glasses,she said,''If you refuse to speak the Queens English,I will terminate this interview'',never have been able to work it out,but I always remembered it.

I say, old chap, what was wrong with how you talked?
Sounds good to me.

DanF
07-06-2006, 03:32 PM
New words are constantly being invented. One that caught my attention on the news was HIMBO a male version of BIMBO.
This word along with others are being added to the dictionary. A couple more that I remember are google and drama queen.

paulc
07-06-2006, 03:39 PM
I think it was the religion question followed by the nationality question that beat me.

googs
07-06-2006, 06:28 PM
The english language is more of a problem for foreigners learning how to speak english than children.

paulc
07-06-2006, 06:30 PM
Oh I dont know,here they got a 'crash course' 200 years ago,caught speaking Irish and youll hang,pretty good incentive.

Cromagnon
07-06-2006, 06:46 PM
New words are constantly being invented. One that caught my attention on the news was HIMBO a male version of BIMBO.
This word along with others are being added to the dictionary. A couple more that I remember are google and drama queen.

I've heard several kids, and some not so young saying, "I'm going to google it", for "I'm going to search for it"...
Somehow English is the language which, I think, gets more new words than other languages, with most of them coming from the Internet.

Cromagnon
07-06-2006, 06:54 PM
The English language is more of a problem for foreigners learning how to speak English than children.

It is because the articulation of words (the sounds) are made by how one uses its tongue teeth, and even your nose to emit these sounds, so every language with it's different sounds finds their people having trouble pronouncing foreign languages, not just English. Those who speak Spanish, like me, find it hard to get all these vowel sounds from English. And the same is for those who speak English to give the right sound to the Spanish vowels, and also some of the consonants, like the 'r', you just can't roll the 'r' like we do. Now, there are some people in my country (Perú), who's mother tongue is the language of the Incas (Quechua), and they find it easy to learn English almost without an accent, but find it hard to pronounce Spanish properly.

Darth Be'lal
07-07-2006, 12:26 PM
For most of our history, American schoolchildren learned our somewhat complicated way of spelling very well, thank you very much.

This article states more on just how badly our schools are doing in teaching our kids than how complicated our way of spelling really is.

es347fan
07-07-2006, 08:30 PM
Laziness abounds!

LionelHutz
07-07-2006, 09:58 PM
This article states more on just how badly our schools are doing in teaching our kids than how complicated our way of spelling really is.

Not only that, but also how schools tend to dumb down things until they get the results they want.