Economic Freedom Coalition Members,



On Thursday, June 8 the U.S. Senate will vote for permanent repeal of the estate tax - one of the most unfair taxes burdens in the entire income tax code.



The estate tax is currently scheduled to expire in 2010, but only for that one year. Unless the Senate votes to permanently eliminate the estate tax, it will go back to the same high rates that existed prior to 2001. In April 2005 the House voted to permanently repeal the estate tax. It is now up to the Senate to vote for permanent repeal so President Bush can end the estate tax once and for all.



As you know, the estate tax punishes savings and investment by unfairly targeting those who wish to pass a nest egg or small business on to their heirs. According to the Heritage Foundation, the estate tax also robs our economy of jobs. Heritage economists estimate that each year between 170,000 and 250,000 jobs are never created, because the investments that would have made them have to instead pay estate tax bills.



And, the estate tax is an immoral form of double taxation. The dollars and assets accumulated by the deceased were already taxed when they were earned, but the estate tax takes another big bite when the owner of the estate dies.



We will need at least 60 senators to support permanent repeal of the estate tax and fight the filibuster the liberals are sure to attempt. Time is running out - Please phone, email or fax both your senators TODAY and send them this short and effective message:



" Please vote for permanent repeal of the estate tax."



Also, be sure to ask your family members and friends to also send this short and effective message to their senators. If you do not know your senator's contact information, you can find it on the Economic Freedom Coalition website: http://www.economicfreedomcoalition.org/congress.asp



Thank you for taking time to make your voice heard on this critical issue.



Herman Cain


"When They Feel The Heat, They Will See The Light"

I can't help but notice that you didn't post any details about the tax, such as the amount the estate has to be worth in order for any tax to be owed.

From the IRS website.

Estate Tax Questions


Reminder: Most relatively simple estates (cash, publicly-traded securities, small amounts of other easily-valued assets, and no special deductions or elections, or jointly-held property) with a total value under $1,000,000 do not require the filing of an estate tax return. The amount was $1,500,000 in 2004 and 2005. For 2006 through 2008, the amount is raised to $2,000,000.

Q: What is the Estate Tax?

The Estate Tax is a tax on your right to transfer property at your death. It consists of an accounting of everything you own or have certain interests in at the date of death (Refer to Form 706). The fair market value of these items is used, not necessarily what you paid for them or what their values were when you acquired them. The total of all of these items is your "Gross Estate." The includible property may consist of Cash and Securities, Real Estate, Insurance, Trusts, Annuities, Business interests and other assets.

Once you have accounted for the Gross Estate, certain deductions (and in special circumstances, reductions to value) are allowed in arriving at your "Taxable Estate." These deductions may include Mortgages and other Debts, Estate Administration expenses, property that passes to Surviving Spouses and Qualified Charities. The value of some operating business interests or farms may be reduced for estates that qualify.

After the net amount is computed, the value of lifetime taxable gifts (beginning with gifts made in 1977) is added to this number and the tax is computed. The tax is then reduced by the available unified credit. Presently, the amount of this credit reduces the computed tax so that only total taxable estates and lifetime gifts that exceed $1,000,000 will actually have to pay tax. In its current form, the estate tax only affects the wealthiest 2% of all Americans.

I think Bush has given ample tax breaks to the wealthiest Americans already. They don't need another one.

Taxes are usually levied when money is exchanged in commerce because that's one of the few time money can be monitored (another being salary). Taxing inheritance between family members has no logical justification other than the government saying "because we can".

Taxes are usually levied when money is exchanged in commerce because that's one of the few time money can be monitored (another being salary).

Another is when someone dies and the value of their assets is calculated for distribution to their heirs.


Taxing inheritance between family members has no logical justification other than the government saying "because we can".

Taxes are always levied for the same purpose. To raise money. That is the justification for any tax.

Get rid of the "death tax" but what should we do about the estate tax???

I think Bush has given ample tax breaks to the wealthiest Americans already. They don't need another one.

True, but they also didn't need to have the money taken from them in the first place. That's like claiming that the return of stolen property to the victim is a gift.

Another is when someone dies and the value of their assets is calculated for distribution to their heirs.
Yes, those are the mechanics of how it's done, but exchanges between family members aren't taxed (birthday gifts, a car at graduation, etc...) Why tax upon inheritance? The person will eventually use the money in a taxable situation anyway.

True, but they also didn't need to have the money taken from them in the first place. That's like claiming that the return of stolen property to the victim is a gift.

I'm not sure your analogy is sound. I don't like taxes any more than you do, but I don't equate paying taxes with being robbed.

Yes, those are the mechanics of how it's done, but exchanges between family members aren't taxed (birthday gifts, a car at graduation, etc...) Why tax upon inheritance? The person will eventually use the money in a taxable situation anyway.

Why tax ever? I guess all I'm saying is that I don't see this form of taxation as any more or less odious than the government saying "You have a job? Give me some of your earnings". I also think it's unlikely to make a big dent in the bank accounts of the wealthiest 2% of the population.

If taxes went up tomorrow, I wouldn't complain as long as it was done fairly. I'm not anti-tax (as a civil servant, I'd be a hypocrite to be anti-taxation - and poor)

But inheritance will be spent soon enough after it changes hands. The exchange itself shouldn't be taxed.

I have seen far too many people get rich by being born and simply inheriting. After they inherit, they really don't add much to our economy (yes they spend money, but percentagewise they don't spend much). They didn't work for it.

What does society gain from eliminating that tax?

So what you are saying is that you dislike the wealthiest people enough
to DOUBLE TAX THEM. Or you dislike them enough to TAX THEM TWICE.

Thats all the death tax does. These people have already paid their fair share.

These people pay more taxes than you and I in dollar amount and in percentage.

yep yep take from the rich and give to the poor (by force).



I can't help but notice that you didn't post any details about the tax, such as the amount the estate has to be worth in order for any tax to be owed.

From the IRS website.


I think Bush has given ample tax breaks to the wealthiest Americans already. They don't need another one.

Alot of them start companies, and provide jobs.

Once again, the money has already been taxed. Do you think it is right to tax it twice??

I have seen far too many people get rich by being born and simply inheriting. After they inherit, they really don't add much to our economy (yes they spend money, but percentagewise they don't spend much). They didn't work for it.

What does society gain from eliminating that tax?

Same thing!

Get rid of the "death tax" but what should we do about the estate tax???

So what you are saying is that you dislike the wealthiest people enough
to DOUBLE TAX THEM. Or you dislike them enough to TAX THEM TWICE.

Try reading what I post instead of what you wish to see.


Thats all the death tax does.

There is no such thing as a "death tax".


These people have already paid their fair share.

That's a matter of opinion. You and I may have a different view of what their "fair share" is.


These people pay more taxes than you and I in dollar amount and in percentage.

The primary reason for this is the fact that they have a great deal more money than you or I do.


yep yep take from the rich and give to the poor (by force).

Sisko, you would come off as a lot more credible if you wouldn't put words in people's mouths. Who the hell said anything about force, or giving money to the poor?

As far as your weak "double taxation" argument, we often pay taxes on money when we earn it, and then again when we spend it. Bitch about that.

Yep they have more than you or I. Alot of them earned it too.

You think that because they have more, they should pay alot more.

.....Spoken like a true communist!

The estate tax is often called the death tax, so there is a such thing as a

"death tax"

I agree that if someone makes more, they should pay more. But to tax them

twice or DOUBLE TAX THEM is wrong. It is also wrong to dislike someone

or hold a grudge because someone made more money.

The people who I do some work for are rich. They also pay more taxes than I

do. People who have money usually provide more jobs than people

without money. Don't hate..... congragulate!



Try reading what I post instead of what you wish to see.



There is no such thing as a "death tax".



That's a matter of opinion. You and I may have a different view of what their "fair share" is.



The primary reason for this is the fact that they have a great deal more money than you or I do.



Sisko, you would come off as a lot more credible if you wouldn't put words in people's mouths. Who the hell said anything about force, or giving money to the poor?

As far as your weak "double taxation" argument, we often pay taxes on money when we earn it, and then again when we spend it. Bitch about that.

I'm not sure your analogy is sound. I don't like taxes any more than you do, but I don't equate paying taxes with being robbed.

Perhaps not, but inasmuch as I don't think the money should've been taken from the rich upon passing money to their heirs in the first place, I don't see it as some sort of benefit to them when it's returned.

I also think it's unlikely to make a big dent in the bank accounts of the wealthiest 2% of the population.

See, but I don't think that's relevant. I hate to use the theft analogy again, but shoplifting doesn't become more acceptable when it's done to Wal-Mart, just because it doesn't affect them as much. The smaller the population of the people targeted by the tax is, the more it strikes me as theft of a sort. Using the government to take from people that can't, because they're very much outnumbered, defend themselves.

If I put words in your mouth, I appoligize.

Where do our taxes go.......... they go to build roads, schooling, WELFARE and other social programs.

My double taxation argument holds more water than your argument.

Yes people pay income taxes and them sales taxes, so what. Sales tax is

usually alot lower than income tax.

THE ESTATE TAX IS TAXED AT THE SAME PERCENTAGE AS INCOME TAX. IT IS ALOT HIGHER THAN SALES TAX.

Once again, the person paid more taxes in dollar amount and in percentage than I do...... (probably you too)

The person paid their fair share all of their life. The Estate tax is just a way to double tax them....(and a great way to tell the persons spouse sorry about the death)

Any other line of thinking on this matter is communistic.

THANX FOR PLAYIN!!!





Sisko, you would come off as a lot more credible if you wouldn't put words in people's mouths. Who the hell said anything about force, or giving money to the poor?

As far as your weak "double taxation" argument, we often pay taxes on money when we earn it, and then again when we spend it. Bitch about that.

The estate tax is not a double tax. Why? Because when that money is taxed for the second time, the person who earned it is ALREADY DEAD. He has therefore paid taxes on that money only once. Now, without the estate tax, the person receiving that money will get a huge amount of income without paying a single penny in taxes. For him, it's not something he earned throughout his lifetime; it's just a crapload of new income.

But inheritance will be spent soon enough after it changes hands. The exchange itself shouldn't be taxed.
Fully agreed.

That's a matter of opinion. You and I may have a different view of what their "fair share" is.
Of course, you do. Forgive my bluntness Vile, but you make 45 K a year at 45 years old. Taxing the rich means NOTHING to you. If you had to run a business, pay HUGE taxes for contributing to the economy in a way in which most people NEVER will, create jobs, provide health and retirement benefits for 30 American citizens for 30 years, then maybe you'd have a better understanding of what "fair" actually is. I mean, let's be honest here - the government should be kissing wealthy people's hairy bean sacks. If they want to give their money to ANYONE after already paying a higher tax rate on it than 98% of the populace, then who the fuck is Uncle Sam to come in and squeeze that person's nuts until they turn purple? Sisco is exactly right; it's a cheap form of double taxation on the same money AGAINST the wishes of the person who ALREADY PAID TAXES ON IT. I guess that's why we have trust funds.

As far as your weak "double taxation" argument, we often pay taxes on money when we earn it, and then again when we spend it. Bitch about that.
We should.

What I'm most concerend about are the ethics behind the death tax.

The government really is, when you get right down to it, simply the largest gun-owner in a given geographical region. Now we can talk all we want about "democracy" and "federalism", but we can't change the true nature of government, which is a tyrannical monster hell bent on controlling its subjects.

All that a tax is, is the assertion by this largely corrupt and highly immoral body that it has a better use for your money then you do. Therfore, you should surrender your money, or get your face kicked in by the jack boot of tyranny. No matter what the justification is: the poor, the children, the elderly. Any non-voluntary surrender of money to anyone else is theft. The death tax is simply another one of those moments that the government flexes its political muscle in order to opress a certain segment of society.

Of course, you do. Forgive my bluntness Vile, but you make 45 K a year at 45 years old.

Not that it's relevant, or any of your business, but I make about 22k/year.


Taxing the rich means NOTHING to you.

Of course it does. The more they pay, the less I have to pay.


If you had to run a business, pay HUGE taxes for contributing to the economy in a way in which most people NEVER will, create jobs, provide health and retirement benefits for 30 American citizens for 30 years, then maybe you'd have a better understanding of what "fair" actually is.

Why do you think people do this? Maybe because after all the crap you just mentioned they're still making money hand-over-fist. Cry me a river.


I mean, let's be honest here - the government should be kissing wealthy people's hairy bean sacks.

You don't think they do already?

Sisco is exactly right; it's a cheap form of double taxation on the same money AGAINST the wishes of the person who ALREADY PAID TAXES ON IT.

Jester put it very well when he pointed out the error of looking at this as a double tax. People pay taxes on money they earn, and it should be no different if you earn the money or have it dropped in your lap.


I guess that's why we have trust funds.

I'm glad you brought up trust funds. Just out of curiosity Prae, who benefits the most in this country from "tax shelters"...the wealthy, or the poor? This is another reason I have little sympathy for people who have to pay inheritance tax. Any competent person should have the brains to put their estate in trust, or set up a living will or similar entity, and there will be no inheritance to tax.

Why do you think people do this? Maybe because after all the crap you just mentioned they're still making money hand-over-fist. Cry me a river.
First off, no they're not, and secondly, whatever money they make, they deserve. Why should the people with drive and ambition...scratch that, for simplification purposes, we'll just call them the BIGGEST contributors to the economy...be penalized to a greater degree than someone who doesn't contribute nearly as much? What about that spells fairness to you???

First off, no they're not, and secondly, whatever money they make, they deserve.

That's a very simplistic outlook.


Why should the people with drive and ambition...scratch that, for simplification purposes, we'll just call them the BIGGEST contributors to the economy...be penalized to a greater degree than someone who doesn't contribute nearly as much? What about that spells fairness to you???

I think you give too much credit to business owners and too little to the people who actually do the labor. These people that you see as contributing the BIGGEST amount, could do none of it without the common worker.

What about that spells fairness to you???

I think taxing inheritance as income is very fair, since it's income. Let's also not forget that we're not talking about taxing all inheritances, just very large ones. Perhaps to make it more fair, we should tax all inheritances.

In a perfect world, the less the rich pay, the smaller the government gets, and the less everyone has to pay as a whole...

Hey, a guy can dream can't he?

Any competent person should have the brains to put their estate in trust, or set up a living will or similar entity, and there will be no inheritance to tax.
That's a little disingenuous. An argument defending the death tax shouldn't be that a smart person can avoid it. Are you for it or against it.

Are you for it or against it.

I'm for it. It's income, and should be taxed appropriately. I see no reason not to tax it as income. The "double-tax" argument does not apply IMO, for the reasons stated so well by Jester. Lastly, and this should satisfy Prae's darwinian sense of economic survival, in its present form it only punishes stupid rich people, and whether it's morally or ethically justifiable, I feel little sympathy for stupid rich people.

Is lottery money taxed?

...in its present form it only punishes stupid rich people.....That's funny.
What about those parents who buy their High School graduate a car? Taxed?

That's funny.
What about those parents who buy their High School graduate a car? Taxed?

Come now Brooks, what's that got to do with inheritance?

There is however, the Gift Tax, which does apply if you give away more than a certain amount, even to a family member.

You are a very unfair person. It is not income it is an inheritance. (there is a dirrerence)

The person who EARNED the money did it (usually) with a lot of RISK and HARD WORK. Then the person dies. The spouse should get the money with no tax burden.

The death tax is a double tax. It's that simple break the wrist and walk away!

I'm for it. It's income, and should be taxed appropriately. I see no reason not to tax it as income. The "double-tax" argument does not apply IMO, for the reasons stated so well by Jester. Lastly, and this should satisfy Prae's darwinian sense of economic survival, in its present form it only punishes stupid rich people, and whether it's morally or ethically justifiable, I feel little sympathy for stupid rich people.

The spouse should get the money with no tax burden.There is no estate tax on spousal inheritance:

TITLE 26 > Subtitle B > CHAPTER 11 > Subchapter A > PART IV > § 2056

§ 2056. Bequests, etc., to surviving spouse

(a) Allowance of marital deduction
For purposes of the tax imposed by section 2001, the value of the taxable estate shall, except as limited by subsection (b), be determined by deducting from the value of the gross estate an amount equal to the value of any interest in property which passes or has passed from the decedent to his surviving spouse, but only to the extent that such interest is included in determining the value of the gross estate.

http://www.law.cornell.edu/uscode/html/uscode26/usc_sec_26_00002056----000-.html

My mistake..... anyway it should not be taxed at all, because it was already taxed, the children and spouse should get it all with no tax burden.

There is no estate tax on spousal inheritance:

TITLE 26 > Subtitle B > CHAPTER 11 > Subchapter A > PART IV > § 2056

§ 2056. Bequests, etc., to surviving spouse

(a) Allowance of marital deduction
For purposes of the tax imposed by section 2001, the value of the taxable estate shall, except as limited by subsection (b), be determined by deducting from the value of the gross estate an amount equal to the value of any interest in property which passes or has passed from the decedent to his surviving spouse, but only to the extent that such interest is included in determining the value of the gross estate.

http://www.law.cornell.edu/uscode/html/uscode26/usc_sec_26_00002056----000-.html

You are a very unfair person. It is not income it is an inheritance. (there is a dirrerence)

You're right, there is a difference between income and inheritance. Income is earned.


The person who EARNED the money did it (usually) with a lot of RISK and HARD WORK.

If you say so.


Then the person dies. The spouse should get the money with no tax burden.

As sedan pointed out, they will.


The death tax is a double tax.

No, the person inheriting didn't pay a dime of taxes on the money they are inheriting.


It's that simple break the wrist and walk away!

I'm sure this is meaningful in some way, but I have no idea what you're trying to say here.

sisko, there's any number of tax shelters available to protect these assets from Uncle Sam's grasping fingers. These were established by politicians who were eager to help the wealthy protect their assets. I think the wealthy are protected enough.

I completely agree pagan. This is not double taxation - A person or company is taxed, money is not. When the money passes hands, the inheritor is taxed once on his 'earning' the money (I use the word earn since he or she may have had to work (suck up) to be bequeathed anything).

Of course it's double taxation.
The government has a stake in, and is involved with, all forms of commerce in the country. Purchases are a naturally regulated way to tax fairly. For example, I'll purchase a Timex and Bill Gates will purchase a Rolex.
When someone leaves an inheritance to his heirs, it is for them to decide what forms of commerce or investments they would like to get involved with. And when they do, the government will monitor and tax that money. The only tax dodge is to never spend the money.
What interest does the government have in how someone distributes his estate? They'll get their share soon enough.

Another reason why we need the Fair Tax Law!


Of course it's double taxation.
The government has a stake in, and is involved with, all forms of commerce in the country. Purchases are a naturally regulated way to tax fairly. For example, I'll purchase a Timex and Bill Gates will purchase a Rolex.
When someone leaves an inheritance to his heirs, it is for them to decide what forms of commerce or investments they would like to get involved with. And when they do, the government will monitor and tax that money. The only tax dodge is to never spend the money.
What interest does the government have in how someone distributes his estate? They'll get their share soon enough.

Same old un fair boring liberal circle.

The liberal says Tax Tax Tax the crap out of the rich.

The liberal doesn't understand that rich people provide jobs, and stimulate

the economy far more than I (and probably most liberals) ever could.


You're right, there is a difference between income and inheritance. Income is earned.



If you say so.



As sedan pointed out, they will.



No, the person inheriting didn't pay a dime of taxes on the money they are inheriting.



I'm sure this is meaningful in some way, but I have no idea what you're trying to say here.

sisko, there's any number of tax shelters available to protect these assets from Uncle Sam's grasping fingers. These were established by politicians who were eager to help the wealthy protect their assets. I think the wealthy are protected enough.

Of course it's double taxation.

How? Money isn't taxed, people are taxed on the money or assets they own, spend, and make.


The government has a stake in, and is involved with, all forms of commerce in the country. Purchases are a naturally regulated way to tax fairly. For example, I'll purchase a Timex and Bill Gates will purchase a Rolex.

Good example, but we aren't taxed only on the things we purchase.


When someone leaves an inheritance to his heirs, it is for them to decide what forms of commerce or investments they would like to get involved with. And when they do, the government will monitor and tax that money.

Yes, they will. What's your point?


The only tax dodge is to never spend the money.

Or set up a trust fund, or write a living will, or put it in a bank in the Cayman Islands, or...you get the idea. To suggest that not spending the money is the only way to avoid paying tax on an inheritance is just wrong Brooks.


What interest does the government have in how someone distributes his estate?

Many and various interests. I'm sure you know what happens to the money when someone dies intestate.

They'll get their share soon enough.

No doubt. They always do. :)

I think if we really wanted to get Al-Quaida, we should take the CIA off the case and send the IRS after them. :D

Same old un fair boring liberal circle.

The liberal says Tax Tax Tax the crap out of the rich.

The liberal doesn't understand that rich people provide jobs, and stimulate

the economy far more than I (and probably most liberals) ever could.

I can always tell when you get desperate sisko, you start chanting about "the liberals".

I'm not desperate, I'm on the right sid of the issue. I'm also correct.
Thanx for playin!

Silly Liberal, Taxes are supposed to be fair!


I can always tell when you get desperate sisko, you start chanting about "the liberals".

Just a few posts I wish to comment on:

Of course it does. The more they pay, the less I have to pay.

That would be true if the government set a tax revenue ceiling, however, until that glorious day, your taxes to not depend on the taxes paid by the rich.

Is lottery money taxed?

Yes

And I don't think that I staked my opinion well in my last post. I am against taxes, I am however for, for as long as taxes still exist, counting money earned through inhertance as income, to be paid along with normal income taxes. But NOT taxing it when it is inherited.

That's a very simplistic outlook.
It's a very simple issue.
I think you give too much credit to business owners and too little to the people who actually do the labor. These people that you see as contributing the BIGGEST amount, could do none of it without the common worker.
Ya know, I think you're right...when business owners pay for the services of common workers, perhaps it isn't enough....

Maybe we should have state run businesses where EVERYONE gets the same income, and then complicated issues like this one can be thrown aside to favor an egalitarian system where the "common worker" is truly compensated for their shear brilliance on sheet metal machines, or cash registers, or, well, whatever....

Now I don’t know about you, but I certainly wouldn’t mind splitting my paycheck with the 16-year-old kid who sweeps up in our computer room, or perhaps I could be lucky enough to actually share my income with the beer-swelling teamster who painstakingly unclogged one of our toilets last week. I mean, hey, after all.....fair is fair, right???
I think taxing inheritance as income is very fair, since it's income. Let's also not forget that we're not talking about taxing all inheritances, just very large ones. Perhaps to make it more fair, we should tax all inheritances.
Yeah, and maybe in a few years we can go guns for socialized medicine, too. Perhaps, with a little elbow grease and hard work, we can have an economy like France's or Germany's in no time. Wow, wouldn't that be the shit!!!

Is lottery money taxed?
Isn't everything?