IF anyone hasn't been following this... its quite disgusting.

3 Duke Lacross players were hauled off to jail in cuffs a few months ago... because they supposedly raped some black hooker. Their faces were shown ALL OVER tv: ESPN, CNN, NBC... you name it. There wasn't any evidence that they raped her, she just said so.. so the guys were arrested.

Now we are finding out that none of these players were proven to have ANY sort of intercourse with the woman, and some of them WEREN'T EVEN THERE. So what happens? Instead of clearing these innocent people's names.. they scroll a small bar across ESPN at the bottom of the screen saying that it's a farce. No big story, no headlines... no mention of how the ENTIRE DUKE LACROSS team had their ENTIRE SEASON CANCELLED because some black hooker LIED to try to EXTORT MONEY.

This is bullshit. If the roles were reversed, and a black basketball team had THEIR season cancelled.. the ACLU would step in, along with all the other racist organizations, and they would have not shut up until every white person hated themselves for being white. You know it, and i know it.. its a fact, you can't fuck with black people. That's what these organizations want you to know. But white people? Go ahead and ruin their lives. These 3 players had their names forever branded across the country to being rapists... and now that they ARENT... nothing is happening.

But things SHOULD be happening:

-The black whore should be cuffed and tried for extortion

-The president and athletic director at Duke should be instantly fired, and perhaps sued heavily for allowing their students and their school to be so blatantly slandered with no proof.

-Jesse Jackson should realize he's a racist asshole... he gave the girl a full ride to college BEFORE he found out she was full of shit. Gee, nice unbiased view there.

-All of the Duke Lacross players should sue the school, the president, the athletic director, and the whore for ruining their season and lives. They should charge for libel, slander, and get tons of money from this. They should USE THE ACLU.. but you know the ACLU wouldnt give a shit.. these are white folk.




I dont see any headlines though.... nobody cares. Remember, these are WHITE people who got screwed.. and noone gives a flying shit about if white people get the shaft. Its the BLACK people who get the sympathy, its the BLACK people who cry wolf over, and over, and over. I guess it's true that its better to sit around and bitch about EVERYTHING, because eventually you start changing things. Obviously alot has changed here.

What ever happened to "innocent until proven guilty"??? These guys were branded GUILTY by the media before they were even in the jail cell. People were outside while the 3 innocents were being brought in saying "How can you do this?? You rapists!!!".. and yet for what? I hope everyone learns a good lesson from this-- how the different races are treated so differently in certain situations. I think with years and years of proof, groups like the ACLU should be deleted and disbanded-- unable to stick their racist heads into anything anymore.

How right you are. All it takes is one screaming "victim" & instantly the accused is guilty until proven otherwise.

If a female knows a guy is innocent, and points the finger, and crys rape, and there was no rape, the female should go to prision for the same time frame as the (so called) rapest would.

If a female knows a guy is innocent, and points the finger, and crys rape, and there was no rape, the female should go to prision for the same time frame as the (so called) rapest would.

Lying is wrong, and branding them was wrong, but one should not get the same punishment for lying under oath as for raping someone.

Now we are finding out that none of these players were proven to have ANY sort of intercourse with the woman, and some of them WEREN'T EVEN THERE. So what happens? Instead of clearing these innocent people's names.. they scroll a small bar across ESPN at the bottom of the screen saying that it's a farce. No big story, no headlines... no mention of how the ENTIRE DUKE LACROSS team had their ENTIRE SEASON CANCELLED because some black hooker LIED to try to EXTORT MONEY.

I mostly agree with you on this one, Decka......and believe it or not, i have thought from the FIRST time I heard about this ---"Hmmmm, i'm not so sure I believe this stripper's story". And also, from the continuing details I have heard, it seems extremely likely to me that this woman was after a payoff.

The one aspect of it that i disagree with you on, somewhat, is that this incident is grounded in racism.

I believe it is FAR more about sexism; about any woman, black OR white, being able to say she was raped, and the authorites go into panic mode and arrest everyone who is implicated.

It is deeply rooted in this society's having placed women on a pedestal, like a saintly and precious princess...which stems from religious attitudes toward women, and about their having suffered a "defilement" if they have some form of unapproved sex.

Remember, these are WHITE people who got screwed.. and noone gives a flying shit about if white people get the shaft.

I had not read down that far when i posted in agreement with you.

I am in 100% DISagreement with the particular statement above.

White people --by and large-- fucking OWN and RUN this country.......they make virtually ALL of the rules........for any human being to claim --"Aw, the white people are the ones always getting shafted in America!!"-- is, to me, simply ridiculous.

I mostly agree with you on this one, Decka......and believe it or not, i have thought from the FIRST time I heard about this ---"Hmmmm, i'm not so sure I believe this stripper's story". And also, from the continuing details I have heard, it seems extremely likely to me that this woman was after a payoff.

Its happened many times.. Kobe Bryant, he took a BIG hit in endorsements because of his scandal... and even Mike Tyson(gasps) might have been innocent. Women take advantage of this loophole big time i agree

I believe it is FAR more about sexism; about any woman, black OR white, being able to say she was raped, and the authorites go into panic mode and arrest everyone who is implicated.

agreed, but nothing is being DONE about it because the people who were affected were white... i think.

It is deeply rooted in this society's having placed women on a pedestal, like a saintly and precious princess...which stems from religious attitudes toward women, and about their having suffered a "defilement" if they have some form of unapproved sex.

Not religious IMO... its rooted in that women are not the dominant sex physically.. men are. FOR THE MOST PART its men who commit rape... because they can physically dominate a woman.

I notice your unbiased "innocent until proven guilty" doesn't apply to the woman in this case, since you repeatedly call her a "hooker" and a "whore".

While I agree with Freethinker that the original accusation had little or anything to do with racism I think the subsequent actions of the district attorney had everything to do with race and racism.

Duke is a university attended almost entirely by rich, white kids. The surrounding area is majority black. The district attorney was in a hotly contested race to extend his interim job to a permenant one in an upcoming election. He was after the black vote and what better way to get it than to play both the race card and the town vs gown card.

The two women involved have very dubious characters and have had run-ins with the law prior to the accusation of rape. Had the alleged incident not occured at Duke the case would have first been quietly investigated rather than having the media hoopla that surrounds this one.

The district attorney was wrong for using this case to further his political career. The university was wrong for canceling the lacrosse season. The students were, if not wrong, dumb for inviting the strippers to their party.

The D.A. was basically elected on the backs of these lacrosse players and I sadly think he is going to try to sacrifice them to his political ambitions. He promised the local blacks blood and now he is going to do his best to give it to them.

Tho it appears from the newspapers that the prosecution's case is weak, there might be more to this story than meets the eye.

DAs are human and don't want to go into a courtroom knowing they're going to be made to look a fool---I say, let the woman have her day in court and let's hear the evidence presented before we pass judgement.

Speaking personally, I believe the fact that she has claimed she was assaulted several years ago by 3 men will be the single most damning thing against the prosecution. No charges were ever brought against those particular men.

I think they should, because if the lie is believed, the accused (though innocent) would go to prision for a long time.

People (though innocent) getaccused of these things fairly often.


Lying is wrong, and branding them was wrong, but one should not get the same punishment for lying under oath as for raping someone.

I had not read down that far when i posted in agreement with you.

I am in 100% DISagreement with the particular statement above.

White people --by and large-- fucking OWN and RUN this country.......they make virtually ALL of the rules........for any human being to claim --"Aw, the white people are the ones always getting shafted in America!!"-- is, to me, simply ridiculous.

Im not saying that white people are the ones getting shafted in america.. all i'm saying is that when white people DO get shafted, noone gives a shit.

I notice your unbiased "innocent until proven guilty" doesn't apply to the woman in this case, since you repeatedly call her a "hooker" and a "whore".

Well hey, she IS the one that lied, and she IS the one who works illegally.. so her credibility is a bit tainted..wouldnt you say?

I mean... she ADMITTED on the stand that she had sex with 3 DIFFERENT MEN in the past 20 hours...concentually... and then came to this party and was RAPED at Duke?? Who in their RIGHT MIND is going to beleive that? And yet because she was a black woman, everyone at duke hid under their desks while the media had a field day ruining people's lives.

I notice your unbiased "innocent until proven guilty" doesn't apply to the woman in this case, since you repeatedly call her a "hooker" and a "whore".
What do you call someone who sells their body to the highest bidder? I mean, other than "Mr. President". :cool:

The mere fact that the three young men have been accused of rape has effectively ruined their lives. It has ruined them even if they are found innocent. Certain accusations, once officially made have done their damage no matter what the future findings.

Well hey, she IS the one that lied, and she IS the one who works illegally.. so her credibility is a bit tainted..wouldnt you say?

Let me say that I don't follow such cases as this usually, and I know none of the details as reported by the press. That being said, I doubt the newspapers are calling her a "hooker", so how do you know she is one? I have seen her referred to as a "stripper" but as far as I know that isn't illegal. BTW, what did she lie about?


I mean... she ADMITTED on the stand that she had sex with 3 DIFFERENT MEN in the past 20 hours...concentually... and then came to this party and was RAPED at Duke?? Who in their RIGHT MIND is going to beleive that?

She doesn't have to convince me, she has to convince twelve of her peers, but all you've done is engage in speculation. I'm going to side with rendova here and say it's likely that you and I don't have all the facts. If this case was completely meritless I suspect the DA wouldn't have filed charges in the first place, black votes notwithstanding.


And yet because she was a black woman, everyone at duke hid under their desks while the media had a field day ruining people's lives.

I think maybe it was the accusation of rape that had everyone's undies in a bundle, not one black woman.

The district attorney was in a hotly contested race to extend his interim job to a permenant one in an upcoming election. He was after the black vote and what better way to get it than to play both the race card and the town vs gown card.........The district attorney was wrong for using this case to further his political career.

I believe you're absolutely correct.

As the DA's case weakened, he pushed the case off until the Spring of 1997 hoping something else would come up, or he could dispose of it quietly. He seems to realize he screwed up.

Well hey, she IS the one that lied, and she IS the one who works illegally.. so her credibility is a bit tainted..wouldnt you say?

They said she was a stripper....I haven't heard anything about her working illegally.

I mean... she ADMITTED on the stand that she had sex with 3 DIFFERENT MEN in the past 20 hours...concentually... and then came to this party and was RAPED at Duke?? Who in their RIGHT MIND is going to beleive that?

Well, its not against the law (yet) to have sex with different people (unless you're the President, evidently), but i see what you're saying about the credibility of the rape charge.

And yet because she was a black woman, everyone at duke hid under their desks while the media had a field day ruining people's lives.

I think it had little to nothing to do with her being black, and more to do with the fact that the accused were wealthy college kids; it's nothing less than a bonanza for people selling lurid tales [i.e., "news stories"] to an American Public that is prurient in the extreme....

.....even if it had been a white stripper, the fact that she was yelling **RAPE** against three rich preppies would, i think, dictate that the news coverage would have been virtually the same.

Race, not class, affected coverage. Tawana Brawley blamed a cop and an ADA.
And the media took sides when the stripper was euphamised into an exotic dancer, and then just a dancer.

Race, not class, affected coverage.

Seems the opposite to me.

Had the three who were accused been poor nobodies who were high school dropouts, the story would not have been granted much significance.

I have not followed the story for a couple of days, so i have not heard any of the news media calling her simply "a dancer".

Seems the opposite to me.
I'm sure it does.

And the media took sides when the stripper was euphamised into an exotic dancer, and then just a dancer.

Sort of like caling a stripper a "hooker" or a "whore" so you can attack their credibilty more easily. Unless she's a criminal, her credibility shouldn't be questioned based on her choice of profession, nor should she be expected to accept a certain level of sexual misconduct on the part of her clients.

We will find out who's guilty of what when the evidence comes out at trial. Until then it's rather pointless to make arguments about it, especially misleading ones.

[QUOTE=Vilepagan]Sort of like caling a stripper a "hooker" or a "whore" so you can attack their credibilty more easily. Unless she's a criminal, her credibility shouldn't be questioned based on her choice of profession, nor should she be expected to accept a certain level of sexual misconduct on the part of her clients.

QUOTE]

Because of her profession, people do question her credibility.
Some would say that this kind of thing goes with the job description.
If she were a nun or schoolteacher, she would seem much more believable.
Just the way things are, I'm afraid.

We will find out who's guilty of what when the evidence comes out at trial. Until then it's rather pointless to make arguments about it, especially misleading ones.I hope you're patient. As I said, the DA is putting this off until Spring of 2007 as he desperately tries to create a case. That should tell you something.

I expect that any day now the ACLU will burst onto the scene to defend their rights under the Sixth Amendment.

Had the three who were accused been poor nobodies who were high school dropouts, the story would not have been granted much significance.
True, but if the kids who raped the black prostit....::ahem::...."dancer" were wealthy and black, then there wouldn't have been a story either, and you know it. As a matter of fact, one might think that if something like that actually did happen (however unlikely, especially under those circumstances), it would be worthy of a page 17 blurb in the Detroit Times (barring the wealthy college part, of course, which might bump it to page 7). I mean, let's be honest here; even if their wealth did play a role (and I'm sure it did to a minimal degree), it was certainly ancillary to the "poor little colored working girl who was brutally gang raped by the man" bullshit the media portrayed it as initially.

Duke is a university attended almost entirely by rich, white kids. The surrounding area is majority black. The district attorney was in a hotly contested race to extend his interim job to a permenant one in an upcoming election. He was after the black vote and what better way to get it than to play both the race card and the town vs gown card.
Exactly right, Frogger.

I mean, let's be honest here; even if their wealth did play a role (and I'm sure it did to a minimal degree), it was certainly ancillary to the "poor little colored working girl who was brutally gang raped by the man" bullshit the media portrayed it as initially.

Ok....being honest about it, it seems to me that even if their race did play a role (although I doubt that it did), it was certainly ancillary to the "unfortunate woman who was brutally raped by the rich preppies" story that the media put out.

For fucks sake, you guys with your --"Aw, it's all about her being a black person!" -- fixation act as if you're unaware that the media ALWAYS makes a big deal out of a rape allegation when well-to-do people are implicated, regardless of the color of the people involved.

the media ALWAYS makes a big deal out of a rape allegation when well-to-do people are implicated, regardless of the color of the people involved.

That's true--I recall the Kennedy rape case from several years back.
The press had a field day with that one.

That also had a lot to do with a live televised trial (and the fact that it was the Kennedys. When John Jr. failed the bar, it was front page on every NYC paper).

That's true too--the day the Kennedys don't make the news, it'll be front page news.

That doesn't add up... you can't say these Duke kids are CELEBS like a kennedy is... of course ANY celebrity who gets a scandal is going to be front page news.. but these aren't well known, or AT ALL known people... just some duke students... so that argument falls flat on its ass.

The 2 cases are not at all similar.

But, this case has all the ingredients of a sensational, media-driven event---college boy athletes ( read that, spoiled pampered drunks, according to the media) poor black woman , scandal, scandal.

What bothers me is how people decide these things from "information" given by the media without having heard a single shred of testimony given in a courtroom where there's rules and regulations concerning the introduction of proper evidence.

The media does not recognize this and never will.

That doesn't add up... you can't say these Duke kids are CELEBS like a kennedy is... of course ANY celebrity who gets a scandal is going to be front page news.. but these aren't well known, or AT ALL known people... just some duke students... so that argument falls flat on its ass.
I'm inclined to agree with you somewhat, but I do understand where FT is coming from. What made this story so "juicy" was the fact that wealthy WHITE kids were being accused of raping a BLACK "dancer" who was simply trying to make an "honest" living. That aside, why those kids chose hire a black stripper is beyond me. Personally, and I don't think I'm alone here, I'm under the impression that (for the most part) white men don't think black women are all that attractive. Don't get me wrong - you have your anomalies like Halle Berry and (I guess, to a degree) Tyra Banks, but in all honesty, they're VERY rare. I live in Chicago where there's no shortage of black people, and during the last 15 years or so, I think I can count the number of hot black women I've seen on three fingers. JMO.

I'm inclined to agree with you somewhat, but I do understand where FT is coming from. What made this story so "juicy" was the fact that wealthy WHITE kids were being accused of raping a BLACK "dancer" who was simply trying to make an "honest" living.

Well, I certainly agree with the emphasis on the ***wealthy*** aspect.

That aside, why those kids chose hire a black stripper is beyond me.

No offense Prae, but the only men i've seen who see a huge difference in the basic attractiveness of black women verus white women are all prime candidates for joining a white supremacist organization.

Personally, and I don't think I'm alone here,....

Uhhhh....I think you might be closer to being alone on this one than you think.

I'm under the impression that (for the most part) white men don't think black women are all that attractive.

Weird.

As for me, I see virtually no diffference in the attractiveness of black females versus white; aesthetically, the body shape is the determining factor for me.....and black women seem to have a definite edge in the booty department.

The absolute LEAST attractive archetype of woman --for me-- is the Paris Hilton/Kate Moss type whose anorexic, skeletal, hipless, shapeless bodies look (sickeningly) like a 15 year old boy with tiny, tiny boobies.

No wonder college boys might want to see a black dancer in action.....to perhaps get a glimpse of a body that evokes voluptuousness and feminity.

JMO.

Did FT just say "booty department"?

It seems the police and the D.A.'s office have been witholding statements from the defense team.

The other dancer said she was away from the alleged victime for only five minutes and the story of her being raped was, "a crock".

The police also royally screwed up the photo lineup. They included only pictures of members of the Duke Lacrosse team so that no matter who the alleged victim identified they could be considered guilty. There we no pictures of people who were definitely innocent of the crime. In most lineups, including photo lineups police officers are added to the people being viewed.

The defense is trying to get the photo identification thrown out. If they succeed, the alleged victim may not identify the young men while in court. The DA's entire case will be blown out of the water.

This entire case stinks to high heaven.

....the only men i've seen who see a huge difference in the basic attractiveness of black women verus white women are all prime candidates for joining a white supremacist organization.
Men may see huge differences in the basic attractiveness in tall vs. short, fair skinned vs. dark skinned, blonde vs. brunette, athletic vs. zaftig, etc... Why do you see prejudice in the black vs. white preference?

Men may see huge differences in the basic attractiveness in tall vs. short, fair skinned vs. dark skinned, blonde vs. brunette, athletic vs. zaftig, etc... Why do you see prejudice in the black vs. white preference?

You have a point......maybe I was overstating it....

...but it just seems to me that some form of inate prejudice must be at work when in 15 years of living in a large city, you see only 3 humans (of a certain skin color) who you find to be 'very attractive'.

...but it just seems to me that some form of inate prejudice must be at work when in 15 years of living in a large city, you see only 3 humans (of a certain skin color) who you find to be 'very attractive'.
Or then again, it might just be a personal preference, but who knows...:rolleyes:

Are you denying that traits or physical characteristics don't exist when you look at a black woman vs. a white one?

In all honesty (and this statement isn't absolute), most black women have real high hips, long arms, wide noses, sloping foreheads, ugly feet, bubble asses, and they communicate with an almost reckless abandon for the English language. Now, personally, I don't find those characteristics very appealing. Just to back up my position, how many white men do you see dating black women? Case in point.

BTW, I agree with you about Kate Moss. I, however, think we differ on Paris Hilton. Come to think of it, I wouldn't mind staying in the Paris Hilton at all. I might even think about an extended stay, especially if I were allowed to gain entrance in back.

I, however, think we differ on Paris Hilton. Come to think of it, I wouldn't mind staying in the Paris Hilton at all. I might even think about an extended stay, especially if I were allowed to gain entrance in back.My esteem for you just fell a notch. She's a skank.

And near-brainless. Not to mention lacking in the "booty department."

::winkwinknudgenudgesaynomore::

Come to think of it, I wouldn't mind staying in the Paris Hilton at all. I might even think about an extended stay, especially if I were allowed to gain entrance in back.

HAWWWWWWWahhhhhhahahahahahahahaha!!!!!

Good one.

Originally Posted by The Praetorian
That aside, why those kids chose hire a black stripper is beyond me.

They didn't. They specified white or Hispanic and were surprised when two black women showed up.

You say white men don't think Black women are all that attractive.

Haven't you seen Napoleon Dynamite?

Anyway, you will see people of all races male and female together.



I'm inclined to agree with you somewhat, but I do understand where FT is coming from. What made this story so "juicy" was the fact that wealthy WHITE kids were being accused of raping a BLACK "dancer" who was simply trying to make an "honest" living. That aside, why those kids chose hire a black stripper is beyond me. Personally, and I don't think I'm alone here, I'm under the impression that (for the most part) white men don't think black women are all that attractive. Don't get me wrong - you have your anomalies like Halle Berry and (I guess, to a degree) Tyra Banks, but in all honesty, they're VERY rare. I live in Chicago where there's no shortage of black people, and during the last 15 years or so, I think I can count the number of hot black women I've seen on three fingers. JMO.

I have had this discussion before.. and i agree. On the street i see almost NO black women i would want to nail LOL.. and thats just my preference. Even the celeb black girls who are supposedly "hot" i am iffy about... i mean, i'd MUCH rather hit up an Amy Smart, Amanda Peet, or the girl who played Jean Grey in Xmen(dont know her name).......

The media storm that has surrounded this case is predictable. It is certainly partly about race, and partly about athletes, and partly about wealth and poverty. The real attraction of the media is sex and ratings. People are endlessly fascinated by the sexual misconduct of others. The ratings prove it.

Ratings driven news leads to massive coverage of stories like this. The coverage would have been just as intense if a group of black athletes were accused of renting a room a a local motel and raping a sorority girl (Minnesota basketball team a few years ago, no convictions). Sex sells, and sexual misconduct by privleged athletes or other celebrities sells even better. Selling is what corporate media is all about. Athletes, celebrities, or politicians are fair game.

The media storm that has surrounded this case is predictable. It is certainly partly about race, and partly about athletes, and partly about wealth and poverty. The real attraction of the media is sex and ratings. People are endlessly fascinated by the sexual misconduct of others. The ratings prove it.

I think we can all agree that being "fascinated by the sexual misconduct of others" is a bad trait. So while the media continues to shove it down our throats.. how long will it be before it becomes acceptable behavior? is it ALREADY acceptable behavior?? We all know that the media prays off of our need to know negative information.. which FOR THE MOST PART is a bad thing. How much influence does years and years of this stuff have on our society?

...i'd MUCH rather hit up an Amy Smart, Amanda Peet, or the girl who played Jean Grey in Xmen(dont know her name).......Wow, you read my mind with some obscure choices. Now just throw in Portia DiRossi...... (it's Famke Janssen, by the way - and if you like her, rent Goldeneye).