Sources in DC are saying that 'Homeland Security'are evesdropping,and tapping the fone conservations of millions of Americans,the White House has denied this,is this a civil liberty you wish to give up in the name of 'Security'.The technology is there to do this,two years ago it was discovered that British Secret Service monitered all calls on the island of Ireland,and recorded conservations when key words were spoken,ie 'Bomb,shoot,kidnap,IRA,explosives,so it is possible,on a larder scale..

Well when you fuck with the world,your bound to be paranoid!! (As bush has done)

Just write more letters.
People talk on the phone too dang much anyway.

Hell, if the government was interested, most of us on allforums would be in jail anyway. We cut those government bastards very little slack.

Sources in DC are saying that 'Homeland Security'are evesdropping,and tapping the fone conservations of millions of Americans,the White House has denied this,is this a civil liberty you wish to give up in the name of 'Security'.The technology is there to do this,two years ago it was discovered that British Secret Service monitered all calls on the island of Ireland,and recorded conservations when key words were spoken,ie 'Bomb,shoot,kidnap,IRA,explosives,so it is possible,on a larder scale..Our President swears they are not trolling or data-mining.

Nice one Dan,u think this is a conspiracy by US Mail..

Where was all this outrage when Clinton was in Office and the Echelon phone tapping thing was going full bore? Echelon was far more intrusive then Bush's domestic "spying" program, dammit.

Well when you fuck with the world,your bound to be paranoid!! (As bush has done)

Yes, Dude, and we'll just forget about 9/11 and terrorist groups "fucking" with the U.S. first.

Where was all this outrage when Clinton was in Office and the Echelon phone tapping thing was going full bore? Echelon was far more intrusive then Bush's domestic "spying" program, dammit.
How does Clinton "doing it too" make it any more justified for Bush?

Yes, Dude, and we'll just forget about 9/11 and terrorist groups "fucking" with the U.S. first.
If you think we haven't done things to the Arab community before 9/11 to piss them off you are insane. I'd say we fucked with them when we put in Israel. Also when we supported the Shah of Iran when he surpressed his people. There are tons of things we've done that have helped killed more of them then the amount who died on 9/11.

Overdose's replies,

How does Clinton "doing it too" make it any more justified for Bush?

I don't raise that point to try and justify Bush's actions, what I'm pointing out is that while Clinton's eavesdropping program wasn't greeted with outrage, anger and sensationalism that has now plagued the Bush Administration. I'm questioning what's the difference. Particularly given the fact that America did get attacked on 9/11 and Bush has far more justification. Particularly given the fact that there are people in America communicating with the Al-Qeada types, dammit.


If you think we haven't done things to the Arab community before 9/11 to piss them off you are insane. I'd say we fucked with them when we put in Israel. Also when we supported the Shah of Iran when he surpressed his people. There are tons of things we've done that have helped killed more of them then the amount who died on 9/11.

Israel is an annoyance to the Arabs and a distraction from the poverty, misery and oppression that infest many Middle Eastern nations. Having watched a documentary on the history of Iran, it wasn't a good idea for America to support a pro-U.S. dictator and I can understand Iran wishing to be a world power once again. However, this Ahmandinejad has flat out stated that Democracy doesn't not belong in the Middle East, or the world for that matter, he has hinted at nuking Israel the first chance he gets, has talked about a grand Clash of Civilizations where the West is defeated by Islam and becomes a "sunset power" while Iran and China rise to prominence. NOW, do you really want a man like that to acquire nuclear weapons I ask?

I don't raise that point to try and justify Bush's actions, what I'm pointing out is that while Clinton's eavesdropping program wasn't greeted with outrage, anger and sensationalism that has now plagued the Bush Administration. I'm questioning what's the difference. Particularly given the fact that America did get attacked on 9/11 and Bush has far more justification. Particularly given the fact that there are people in America communicating with the Al-Qeada types, dammit.
I'm not educated on the what exactly Clinton did. However the reason people are upset with the Bush Administration is because they bypassed Congress to eavesdrop on American citizens. Did Clinton also bypass Congress? Do you have proof?

Israel is an annoyance to the Arabs and a distraction from the poverty, misery and oppression that infest many Middle Eastern nations.
You are very much incorrect. Israel has attacked and harmed many Arabs. Not to mention it was not fair for us to kick out people who had been living there for years and to put in place another country (Israel) in the center of the Middle East. That was not fair to the Arabs and I don't blame them for being resentful.

Having watched a documentary on the history of Iran, it wasn't a good idea for America to support a pro-U.S. dictator and I can understand Iran wishing to be a world power once again. However, this Ahmandinejad has flat out stated that Democracy doesn't not belong in the Middle East, or the world for that matter, he has hinted at nuking Israel the first chance he gets, has talked about a grand Clash of Civilizations where the West is defeated by Islam and becomes a "sunset power" while Iran and China rise to prominence. NOW, do you really want a man like that to acquire nuclear weapons I ask?
This entire response has nothing to do with what I stated. All I said was that we have made mistakes too. Such as supporting the Shah of Iran who murdered and killed his people using the Savak Police. Don't say "they fucked with us first" because that is not true. You avoided the point I was trying to make (which was that we have done things prior to 9/11 that have harmed and hurt arabs) and went on a rant about the current leader of Iran. That has nothing to do with the point I was trying to make.

I'm not educated on the what exactly Clinton did. However the reason people are upset with the Bush Administration is because they bypassed Congress to eavesdrop on American citizens. Did Clinton also bypass Congress? Do you have proof?

I did a post on this one before and I might add that I truly hate to repeat myself. First off, Bush DID inform the Minority and Majority Leaders of Congress, the Senate Intelligence Commitee and the Justice Department of the so-called Domestic Spying program not to mention the fact that the Justice Department did review the NSA program every 45 days to insure that citizen's rights were protected.

Clinton did much the same thing under his echelon program Congressmen Kennedy, Reid, Boxer and Pelosi ALL knew what Clinton was up to yet there was no outrage from them, or the press for that matter when that domestic spying program surfaced. The main point is that Clinton's spying program got revealed and no outrage, Bush runs a program to monitor suspect phone calls to terrorists and then the same idiots who said nothing about Clinton's activities are now screaming blue murder about Bush's "domestic spying" program. The biggest difference I can see is the man in Office, dammit.

This entire response has nothing to do with what I stated. All I said was that we have made mistakes too. Such as supporting the Shah of Iran who murdered and killed his people using the Savak Police. Don't say "they fucked with us first" because that is not true. You avoided the point I was trying to make (which was that we have done things prior to 9/11 that have harmed and hurt arabs) and went on a rant about the current leader of Iran. That has nothing to do with the point I was trying to make.

Yes, and I did was acknowledge that, yes, our foreign policy decisions did sometimes lead to disasterous results and then point out that it still isn't a good idea to allow a man like Ahmandinejad to acquire nuclear weapons, dammit.


http://www.allforums.net/showthread.php?t=16395

I did a post on this one before and I might add that I truly hate to repeat myself. First off, Bush DID inform the Minority and Majority Leaders of Congress, the Senate Intelligence Commitee and the Justice Department of the so-called Domestic Spying program not to mention the fact that the Justice Department did review the NSA program every 45 days to insure that citizen's rights were protected.
Wait, but did Congress vote on this? Or did he just "tell" them?

PS: Where are all your sources? And your thread on this issue seemed to be attacked by many posters and you've yet to reply to them. I think this is all bullshit after reading that thread.

Yes, and I did was acknowledge that, yes, our foreign policy decisions did sometimes lead to disasterous results and then point out that it still isn't a good idea to allow a man like Ahmandinejad to acquire nuclear weapons, dammit.
Good, I'm glad you admit that you were wrong in saying that they attacked us first. Also, there was no need to "point" that out.

Wait, but did Congress vote on this? Or did he just "tell" them?

PS: Where are all your sources? And your thread on this issue seemed to be attacked by many posters and you've yet to reply to them. I think this is all bullshit after reading that thread.

VOTE on a spying program designed to eavesdrop on terrorists? You are not so dumb as to believe that would be a good idea to so publicly announce we're going to spy on terrorists THEN try and find out what they are up to. I sincerely hope I don't have to explain that one to you, dammit.


If you had read my thread and the article accompanying it, you would've found the precedents for a President to do what needs to be done to protect the U.S. from attack including circumventing FISA in order to find out what the terrorists are doing. I could come up with sources till I'm blue in the face, but if you aren't going to read them, then why bother digging them up?

Good, I'm glad you admit that you were wrong in saying that they attacked us first. Also, there was no need to "point" that out.

I never stated that the Iranians attacked us first. Where do you get that idea at?

VOTE on a spying program designed to eavesdrop on terrorists? You are not so dumb as to believe that would be a good idea to so publicly announce we're going to spy on terrorists THEN try and find out what they are up to. I sincerely hope I don't have to explain that one to you, dammit.
I think you are far too ignorant on what the terrorists know. Do you honestly believe they don’t already know the United State’s government isn’t taking aggressive action to stop terrorism (which would include spying)? Furthering my point that asking for a vote in congress or at least getting warrants from judges would be the appropriate and legal way to deal with this issue.

If you had read my thread and the article accompanying it, you would've found the precedents for a President to do what needs to be done to protect the U.S. from attack including circumventing FISA in order to find out what the terrorists are doing. I could come up with sources till I'm blue in the face, but if you aren't going to read them, then why bother digging them up?
I read your thread. We are talking about this issue in two different threads. I replied to this issue/debate in another thread, please go there. Also, if these sources are bias and from a right-wing source don’t bother digging them up…because I won’t read them. Can you find un-bias reporting?

I never stated that the Iranians attacked us first. Where do you get that idea at?
These terrorists (the ones on 9/11) came from the Middle East. Anything we’ve done in the Middle East (including Iran and the support of the Shah) that has cast a negative result on its people will produce terrorists and people who hate us. Can you not understand that?

VOTE on a spying program designed to eavesdrop on terrorists? You are not so dumb as to believe that would be a good idea to so publicly announce we're going to spy on terrorists THEN try and find out what they are up to.You're not so dumb as to think that terrorist don't already assumed they are being spied on do you?

BTW I remember and hate Echelon (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/ECHELON). and Fuck Clinton.

The biggest difference I can see is the man in Office, dammit. wrong. The biggestdifference is that Echelon was created and used with the "intention" of spying on the other four countries countries citizens instead of our own. Of course that was all bullshit and it was completely about the countries spying on their own citizens. BushCo on the other hand claims to only be spying on 'terrorist transnational calls' while all the evidence points to spying on demostic calls.
Bush DID inform the Minority and Majority Leaders of Congress, the Senate Intelligence CommiteeUnder threat of imprisonment for telling anyone about it...
not to mention the fact that the Justice Department did review the NSA program every 45 days to insure that citizen's rights were protected.yeah because having a spy court that rejects 3 out of 20,000 requests is obviously hampering investigations...

i just have one question... how does one go about tapping into "millions" of phone calls... does a gov't employ "millions of people" to tap the "millions of phone calls"???

The "domestic spying" which is being shouted from the mountaintops by most liberals is hardly that from what i've seen. Talk about scare tactics... "Holy Shit! George Bush is listening to my phone conversations!!!" LOL Dont be so vain. I highly doubt the government cares to listen to your conversation about who won american idol, if Brittany Spears is pregnant again, and who your next big crush is....

It would probably be safe to say that someone would have to have certain traits to have their phone tapped. They would have to be suspicously associated with certain groups. I live west of cleveland, and there is a suburb called "Westlake" which has TONS of arabs. You want to talk about no respect? Arabs HATE white people, especially white women. I have no idea why. I have a friend who DOES have alot of arab friends, and she tells me about meetings the arabian community has. They meet up in basements, with guns, and talk about plans and secret shit. Now one could say "Oh, they are just talking about the NBA Playoffs".. but i think most of us know better. They don't keep their feelings silent, they curse the president and America whenever they can. Now THOSE are the people i want to be tapped... i want the gov't to KNOW about these meetings.. im half tempted to find out where they live and find out when the next one is.

Now, im guessing here comes most of the liberals to say i have no right to impede their "right to congregate"... LOL... yea, and with the extra slack you give them they wouldn't hesitate to kill you...

Talk about scare tactics...

Yeah, like this post.


It would probably be safe to say that someone would have to have certain traits to have their phone tapped.

Like what?


They would have to be suspicously associated with certain groups. I live west of cleveland, and there is a suburb called "Westlake" which has TONS of arabs. You want to talk about no respect? Arabs HATE white people, especially white women. I have no idea why.

::blinks:: Unbelieveable...


I have a friend who DOES have alot of arab friends, and she tells me about meetings the arabian community has. They meet up in basements, with guns, and talk about plans and secret shit. Now one could say "Oh, they are just talking about the NBA Playoffs".. but i think most of us know better. They don't keep their feelings silent, they curse the president and America whenever they can. Now THOSE are the people i want to be tapped... i want the gov't to KNOW about these meetings.. im half tempted to find out where they live and find out when the next one is.

And I thought this couldn't get more bizarre...


Now, im guessing here comes most of the liberals to say i have no right to impede their "right to congregate"... LOL... yea, and with the extra slack you give them they wouldn't hesitate to kill you...

I won't say that Decka...I will say that you have some seriously racist ideas.

The "domestic spying" which is being shouted from the mountaintops by most liberals is hardly that from what i've seen. Talk about scare tactics... "Holy Shit! George Bush is listening to my phone conversations!!!" LOL Dont be so vain. I highly doubt the government cares to listen to your conversation about who won american idol, if Brittany Spears is pregnant again, and who your next big crush is....Even if the conversation IS worth listening to, it doesn't change the fact that the legal process for tapping into that conversation has to be adhered to. It's the legality of the program that's at issue here, not it's merits.

Now, im guessing here comes most of the liberals to say i have no right to impede their "right to congregate"... LOL... yea, and with the extra slack you give them they wouldn't hesitate to kill you...I guess I'll be the first one to come out and say it. You can't impede their "right to congregate." Not without demonstrating probable cause, which is something only a court can judge. And that's according to the Constitution, a document that you seem to take a little too lightly.

I agree that tapping phones should be done the correct way, and by law.

As for Pagan's labeling me a racist? How am i a racist? The word is wayyyy overused these days. Racism is hate for no reason, just because they are a certain nationality. However, since i like to talk in stereotypes sometimes, i could see how my choice of words MIGHT be confused with the idea of racism. Sorry if it came off that way, but i can't say i "hate" anyone for what color they are. i CAN say i "dislike" certain cultural characteristcs... which isn't racism.

And pagan.. please tell me exactly HOW my post was a "scare tactic".. im interested to hear this one.

And while you ***blink**** and call things bizarre... sorry to inform you but i get the stereotype from personal experience... i get it from seeing arabs pulling guns out of their car if you talk back to them after they call you something. I notice a trend... i dont deny the trend. If i get stung by a bee, the next time a bee comes around im more cautious. Well the only types of people i have EVER been in physical conflicts with are arabs, and EVERY TIME there have been 4-5 of them and just me or me and a friend. So save me the sympathy for the other side. There is obviously something going on with the majority of arabs that live near me.... All of the gun-toting, militaristic insanity is a characterstic of the group.

Id be interested on were the information comes from on 'arabs' meeting in basements with guns,I would have thought the cops would be interested in anyone having meetings in basements,with guns..

Hey.. its just what i heard from one of my good friends.. and she is what i would consider a reliabe source. Take it or leave it. It came up when i mentioned to her about a run-in i had at a Taco Bell late one night... i flashed a car with my spotlight.. and it was full of Arabs. They pulled up next to me, threatened me to get out of the car because they'd shoot me if i did. One snuck up and stole my spotlight and smashed it, another threw quarters at my car. So i opened up my cavalier door into their "daddy-bought" Lexus... i then started getting punched in the face through my window while i was sitting. My friend got out and was met by all 4 of the arabs. I got out of the car and went over to help. it was 2 on 4, my friend got clocked from behind, we both got bruises.

While i wish i could keep a clear "innocent until proven guilty" mindset.. i keep seeing the same trend. Its either i just happen to run into the same military ghetto thug arabs by chance.. or that is how most of them are.... what do you think?

Y u not call the cops..

Decka, if they were really terrorists you wouldn't be telling us about their basement meetings because you probably wouldn't know about them. Keeping their operations hidden is the only that terrorists are able to carry them out. They wouldn't risk exposing their plans by letting people see them with guns or getting into trouble for fighting. The guys you're talking about are probably just a bunch of street thugs with no life.

However, since i like to talk in stereotypes sometimes, i could see how my choice of words MIGHT be confused with the idea of racism. Sorry if it came off that way, but i can't say i "hate" anyone for what color they are. i CAN say i "dislike" certain cultural characteristcs... which isn't racism.

Ok

And pagan.. please tell me exactly HOW my post was a "scare tactic".. im interested to hear this one.

Statements like these...


Arabs HATE white people, especially white women....

They meet up in basements, with guns, and talk about plans and secret shit...

They don't keep their feelings silent, they curse the president and America whenever they can....

LOL... yea, and with the extra slack you give them they wouldn't hesitate to kill you...


Scare tactics.


And while you ***blink**** and call things bizarre... sorry to inform you but i get the stereotype from personal experience... i get it from seeing arabs pulling guns out of their car if you talk back to them after they call you something. I notice a trend... i dont deny the trend. If i get stung by a bee, the next time a bee comes around im more cautious. Well the only types of people i have EVER been in physical conflicts with are arabs, and EVERY TIME there have been 4-5 of them and just me or me and a friend. So save me the sympathy for the other side. There is obviously something going on with the majority of arabs that live near me.... All of the gun-toting, militaristic insanity is a characterstic of the group.

I'd say that if you find yourself getting into a lot of personal conflicts you might want to figure out why that is...I don't find myself being accosted on the street by angry gun-toting Arabs. Maybe it's your cologne. :D

Decka, if they were really terrorists you wouldn't be telling us about their basement meetings because you probably wouldn't know about them. Keeping their operations hidden is the only that terrorists are able to carry them out. They wouldn't risk exposing their plans by letting people see them with guns or getting into trouble for fighting. The guys you're talking about are probably just a bunch of street thugs with no life.

I think you may have gotten the two stories mixed up... They weren't openly talking about their "meetings"... I heard from a friend who happens to be friends with an arabian family. She knows very little as well, im just speculating, but from what she described it kind of raised my eyebrow.

The whole "getting beat up at Taco Bell" story is a whole different story.

But the main concept we were discussing was how much Arabians rip off the united states, use it for its freedoms, and then still manage to heavily dislike white americans, the very people who GAVE them those freedoms. Again, im not saying ALL ARABS HATE WHITES.. but that is the trend of i'd say 75% of them who live around me, at least from what i notice. I wish it wasn't that way.

But i was asking alot of questions. Why do they not have to pay taxes for the first 5 years? They sooo take advantage of that, and its really not too fair. I know there are worse problems out there but on this particular topic you have to admit that overall the arabian community is getting a VERY good deal out of this. They all become doctors in their home country for VERY little money and NOT alot of schooling.. and then come over here and make HUNDREDS OF THOUSANDS of dollars, all while not paying taxes. And some of them still have the audacity to be pissed at america... geez you're raping us already!

I'd say that if you find yourself getting into a lot of personal conflicts you might want to figure out why that is...I don't find myself being accosted on the street by angry gun-toting Arabs. Maybe it's your cologne.

LOL you are right.. im not one to always blame others for things. Getting into a personal conflict is totally avoidable, and the only way i do get into them is by lowering myself to a level i normally don't venture to. I don't carry a huge ego or enourmous pride.. i dont have to be right. So there is definitely truth to what you say. But in my absolute UNBIASED opinion ;) there is some truth in what i say as well.... lol

Did these incjdents happen while you were in Hebron

I really don't mind if my phone is tapped. Whoever is listening on the other end can kiss my ass. They can listen to my conversations all they want, it doesn't bother me at all. I have nothing to hide.

Hey.. its just what i heard from one of my good friends.. and she is what i would consider a reliabe source. Take it or leave it. It came up when i mentioned to her about a run-in i had at a Taco Bell late one night... i flashed a car with my spotlight.. and it was full of Arabs. They pulled up next to me, threatened me to get out of the car because they'd shoot me if i did. One snuck up and stole my spotlight and smashed it, another threw quarters at my car. So i opened up my cavalier door into their "daddy-bought" Lexus... i then started getting punched in the face through my window while i was sitting. My friend got out and was met by all 4 of the arabs. I got out of the car and went over to help. it was 2 on 4, my friend got clocked from behind, we both got bruises. MAybe you shouldn't be flashing spotlights in random people cars. Or you could drive off when a carload of people start pullin machisimo BS. Or you could not damage said car...any of these may stop you from getting your ass kicked...

And youre a racist ass because you blame it on the fact that they we "darkies" rather then the fact that they were just overreacting assholes to your spotlight jackassery.

MAybe you shouldn't be flashing spotlights in random people cars.

Probably shouldn't

Or you could drive off when a carload of people start pullin machisimo BS.


Hey i SHOULD walk away, but that is a language they(thug wannabes) don't understand.



And youre a racist ass because you blame it on the fact that they we "darkies" rather then the fact that they were just overreacting assholes to your spotlight jackassery.

Nope... I noted the fact that MOST of the "darkies", as you call them, who i run into happen to carry the same characteristics. How many people does it take before you are allowed to stereotype?