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sedan
05-06-2006, 07:35 AM
Execution of Iraqi teenager adds to surge of homophobia attacks

05 May 2006

Human rights groups have condemned the "barbaric" murder of a 14-year-old boy, who, according to witnesses, was shot on his doorstep by Iraqi police for the apparent crime of being gay.

Ahmed Khalil was shot at point-blank range after being accosted by men in police uniforms, according to his neighbours in the al-Dura area of Baghdad.

Campaign groups have warned of a surge in homophobic killings by state security services and religious militias following an anti-gay and anti-lesbian fatwa issued by Iraq's most prominent Shia leader, Grand Ayatollah Ali al-Sistani.

Ali Hili, the co-ordinator of a group of exiled Iraqi gay men who monitor homophobic attacks inside Iraq, said the fatwa had instigated a "witch-hunt of lesbian and gay Iraqis, including violent beatings, kidnappings and assassinations".

"Young Ahmed was a victim of poverty," he said. "He was summarily executed, apparently by fundamentalist elements in the Iraqi police."

Neighbours in al-Dura district say Ahmed's father was arrested and interrogated two days before his son's murder by police who demanded to know about Ahmed's sexual activities. It is believed Ahmed slept with men for money to support his poverty-stricken family, who have fled the area fearing further reprisals.

The killing of Ahmed is one of a series of alleged homophobic murders. There is mounting evidence that fundamentalists have infiltrated government security forces to commit homophobic murders while wearing police uniforms.

Human rights groups are particularly concerned that the Sadr and Badr militias, both Shia, have stepped up their attacks on the gay community after a string of religious rulings, since the US-led invasion, calling for the eradication of homosexuals.

Grand Ayatollah Sistani recently issued a fatwa on his website calling for the execution of gays in the "worst, most severe way".

The powerful Badr militia acts as the military wing of the Supreme Council for Islamic Revolution in Iraq (SCIRI), which counts Ayatollah Sistani as its spiritual leader. Another fatwa from the late and much revered Ayatollah Abul Qassim Khoei allows followers to kill gays "with a sword, or burn him alive, or tie his hands and feet and hurl him down from a high place".

Mr Hili said: "According to our contacts in Baghdad, the Iraqi police have been heavily infiltrated by the Shia paramilitary Badr Corps."

Mr Hili, whose Abu Nawas group has close links with clandestine gay activists inside Iraq, said US coalition forces are unwilling to try and tackle the rising tide of homophobic attacks. "They just don't want to upset the Iraqi government by bringing up the taboo of homosexuality even though homophobic murders have intensified," he said.

A number of public homophobic murders by the Badr militia have terrified Iraq's gay community. Last September, Hayder Faiek, a transsexual, was burnt to death by Badr militias in the main street of Baghdad's al-Karada district. In January, suspected militants shot another gay man in the back of the head.

The US State Department has yet to document the surge in its annual human rights reports. Iraq's neighbours, however, such as Iran, Saudi Arabia and the UAE, are often criticised for their persecution of gays.

Darla Jordan, from the US State Department said: "The US government continues to work closely with our Iraqi partners to ensure the protection of human rights and the safety of all Iraqi citizens."

http://www.belfasttelegraph.co.uk/news/story.jsp?story=689764

Evakian
05-06-2006, 09:07 AM
I wish I could issue fatāwa. What a grand day in human achievement that would be.

paulc
05-06-2006, 10:05 AM
Glad to see the US invasion has changed things so much for the Iraqi people,just what is the point of it all christsake...

DanF
05-06-2006, 10:35 AM
The Middle East has operated by its own standards and rules for thousands of years. To believe, even for a minute, that changes can be forced upon these folks, is ludicrous.

We will think, in our audacity, that we are infiltrating the Islamic beliefs with our own outlooks, the opposite infiltration will likely-eventually occur.

Decka
05-06-2006, 11:07 AM
Extreme Leftwinger response(freethinker): No... its not the ISLAMIC EXTREMISTS we have to worry about.. its the CHRISTIANS!!! Pretty soon Christians will come door to door, and if you are gay they will kill you!!!

paulc
05-06-2006, 02:53 PM
In Ireland here they already come door to door,and their Americans,Jehovas I think their called,do your head in...

es347fan
05-06-2006, 03:13 PM
Taking proselytizers out is almost a recognized sport in some areas.

sedan
05-07-2006, 10:05 AM
Extreme Leftwinger response(freethinker): No... its not the ISLAMIC EXTREMISTS we have to worry about.. its the CHRISTIANS!!! Pretty soon Christians will come door to door, and if you are gay they will kill you!!! In case you haven't noticed, Freethinker despises all religions.

paulc
05-07-2006, 11:00 AM
Well Im starting to go off them myself,hate anybody 'in your face' like that...

M&Mdelite
05-07-2006, 07:15 PM
The Middle East has operated by its own standards and rules for thousands of years. To believe, even for a minute, that changes can be forced upon these folks, is ludicrous.

We will think, in our audacity, that we are infiltrating the Islamic beliefs with our own outlooks, the opposite infiltration will likely-eventually occur.

I agree, totally.

Darth Be'lal
05-07-2006, 09:47 PM
The Middle East has operated by its own standards and rules for thousands of years. To believe, even for a minute, that changes can be forced upon these folks, is ludicrous.

The Iraqis and Afghanis have already embraced a few of Western ideals. They've risked their lives to vote and both have formed governments modelled after Western governments. People are people and they do want the rights, freedoms, dignities and prosperity we enjoy here in the West.

When the West first came into contact with Muslims, they did teach the West about math, science, philosophy, Greek literature. It's fair to say that Islam was Europe's teacher.

The West MUST return the favor and teach Muslims why democracy, capitalism, science and religious toleration lead to peace and prosperity. If the West is too weak to do the heavy lifting required to do this, then the Bin Laden types will be more than happy to teach 12th century Islam that does lead to the attrocities that lead to the execution of that poor kid, as well as poverty, war, misery, corruption and all the other horrible things that infest the Middle East.

DanF
05-07-2006, 10:32 PM
The West MUST return the favor and teach Muslims why democracy, capitalism, science and religious toleration lead to peace and prosperity. If the West is too weak to do the heavy lifting required to do this, then the Bin Laden types will be more than happy to teach 12th century Islam that does lead to the attrocities that lead to the execution of that poor kid, as well as poverty, war, misery, corruption and all the other horrible things that infest the Middle East.
==============================================
I agree with the concept, Darth, I just do not believe that they are ready in-mass.
Sure, the seeds have been planted. Just as a farmer plants seeds of a crop.
Then, nature must take its course. If the desire to sprout democracy is strong enough, it will be so. We can not do this for them.
If, in our haste, we continue to disturb the ground, the seeds will wither and die.

Napsterbater
05-07-2006, 11:58 PM
I think you are almost completely wrong. Let us examine.

I think that democracy cannot exist without the economic strength that is often attributed to it. In other words, a strong and robust economy causes democracy, not the other way around. What we should be doing is cultivating strong economies, not democracy, in rogue states. The democracy will then flow naturally from the population who will be more willing to stand up for what they now have.

Capitalism is traditionally pushed onto third world nations, not to benefit their own economies, but to benefit the economies of the nations pushing it onto them. Capitalism is survival of the fittest, and it's very easy for stronger nations to take advantage of weaker ones under the guise of assisting them to grow. I do not think we should be promoting free markets in rogue states, because that is an invitation for multi-national corporations to step in and run affairs, without just compensation for the natives. We should be promoting protectionist economies in other states, so they have a chance to grow on their own. To do anything else is to foster corruption and poverty in those states.

Science has brought the Western world much, but it also causes numerous difficulties for residents of nations which are not very technically advanced, and can undermine centuries of tradition that hold fragile societies together. We should not be promoting science willy-nilly as a cure-all for a nation's ills. With technical advancement comes social upheaval, and it can destroy decades of steady social advancement, and can lead to fundamentalist uprisings against modern consumerist culture. We should not be trying to force technological change down the throats of nations that have a strong traditionalist culture, particularly those of Islamic nations. We need to cultivate change, not force it.

Religious toleration is something that occurs naturally, as economic growth happens and societies slowly advance. It isn't something that can be promoted without others perceiving the gesture to be overbearing. Remember, Islamic countries tolerated Jews and Christians for centuries, and have only recently ejected Jews from their lands. (most Christians in Islamic communities eventually converted) Religious toleration is something Muslims know and understand, and not the exclusive domain of the West and it's Christian constituency. I think that should the West change it's attitude about Islam and adopt a gentler approach towards modernization, instead of hardline secularization, the toleration will again flow from Islam. Muslims cannot separate church and state as Christians can, and can only tolerate followers of other beliefs, not consider them as equals. If Islam is to modernise, it will be the clerics ruling, and the West is just going to have to deal with that. Any other option spells greater resentment of the West, and more fatwas and more suicide attacks and more violence. Christianity will have to learn to tolerate Islam, before Islam will tolerate modernization.

paulc
05-08-2006, 01:23 AM
I bet the USAF were glad to see you go ,man..

Napsterbater
05-08-2006, 01:26 AM
You bet! Hahaha!

WindWip
05-13-2006, 09:01 PM
I think you are almost completely wrong. Let us examine.

I think that democracy cannot exist without the economic strength that is often attributed to it. In other words, a strong and robust economy causes democracy, not the other way around. What we should be doing is cultivating strong economies, not democracy, in rogue states. The democracy will then flow naturally from the population who will be more willing to stand up for what they now have.

That is an interesting idea. I have to say, it made me think for awhile, but then China and Russia came to mind.

China has a strong economy, but not per capita, and they have very few civil liberties in comparison to other 1st world nations.

Russia had a very poor economy for long periods of time, which is what sparked the revolutions; the fact that they had nothing (and nothing to lose).

In case you haven't noticed, Freethinker despises all religions.
it makes for an entertaining forum :corn:
I even agree with him on some of his posts

paulc
05-13-2006, 09:55 PM
Russia and China both have one thing in common,their both ran by a very select few,everybody else has to claw out a living..