People from all over the world come to the US every year by the thousands, corrupted governments in their countries force them to leave, and most of these corrupted governments are backed/supported or put in power by the US Administrations, so the Big Multinational business can make huge profits in foreign lands, I believe we wouldn't be so rich if it weren't for all the wealth taken away from foreign lands, with all these unfair and illegal practices, that include assassination of those who oppose the entrance of the US Corporations into their countries. Before it was the British who through their wars and stealings (by the official pirates of the British Kings and Queens), became wealthy.

Excellent post, Socialist.

Dead on accurate.

As for the whimpering --"Sniff sniff, I won't never buy no more Meskin stuff!!"-- atttiude, it is hilarious.

Of the dozens of very serious, potentially calamitous problems confronting this society, the Mexican immigration problem seems to me to be very low on the list.

If it has lasted the 50 or more years our friend The praetorian says, which I am sure it is true, maybe more than the 50 years, it hasn't hurt the economy at all, I could even say that ball has been rolling smoothly, guess they were needed all the time ...
:rolleyes:

The influx over the last 50 years absolutely PALES in comparison to what it's been like over the last 15. In moderation, you're right, Cromagnon; America's economy has always prospered with the help of cheap labor, but now, we're not talking about "cheap labor" anymore. It's an entirely new ball of wax, period.

Excellent debates Vile and Frogger. Cromagnon is hitting the nail on the head though, too, when he says that immigration is suddenly at the forefront of issues in an election year for Congress, etc. Since the GOP has totally bombed out in the Presidency, they need something to help hold them up. Obviously the war in Iraq, spying, phone records, etc. won't be winning them any brownie points. Sooo, let's pick on immigration. It's an issue that can make or break an election. It's also an issue that the citizens of the US can rally around and feel good about! (Kinda like rallying together when the government spewed bullshit intelligence to us in order to invade Iraq).

Don't get me wrong, I think the immigration issue needs to be addressed. It's getting out of hand. I just think there are far more important issues that should come first.

It is not a question of putting their money into American banks. It is about physically removing the money from circulation within the American economy. The money that is sent to Mexico and other Latin American countries is a net loss from the American economy.

It's their money to do with what they will. If we wish them to spend their money here, it is up to us to provide the incentive.


You have simply chosen to ignore the actions of the Mexican government as it concerns immigrants, both legal and illegal.

You're correct. I'm much more concerned with the acitions of our government.


I recognize assimilation when I see it. The problem is, I see it so seldomly.


How can you see what you don't believe exists?


It is not simply a matter of wanting to keep ties to the old country. It is a matter of not wanting to form ties to the new country.

Ok. Why do you believe that Mexican immigrants as a group do not wish to form ties to this country?


Spanish speaking immigrants do not try to learn English at the same rate as those from other countries.

Prove it.


You may not like the fact and it may make you uncomfortable but it is true never the less.

I neither like nor dislike your assertion, and I'm not discomfited in the least by it, I simply think you're mistaken on this point. :)


Now, who is being racist?

You tell me.


If millions of Russians were to enter the country illegally and demand ballots in Russian, send most of their money back to Mother Russia, listen to nothing but Russian radio and watch nothing but Russian t.v., to demand that government workers speak Russian, the response would be the same.

I seem to be getting the impression here that it's not the immigrants that are bothering you, it's politicians, and businessmen pandering to their interests that has you steamed.


Actually, not bull. It has gone so far as to include celebrating Cinco de Mayo in public schools.

Firstly, this in no way proves your point that the Mexicans want us to be more like them, and secondly, don't you think exposing children to other cultures in school is a good thing?


And the vast majority of those I have had dealings with do not speak English. I am pretty sure I have had more contact with Spanish speaking immigrants than you have. The town where I grew up and where I later taught has one of the largest Spanish speaking populations in New York State. I deal with Spanish speaking immigrants on an almost daily basis even today.

The problem seems to be that you aren't meeting any English speaking ones, not that they don't exist. I guess the immigrants we get here in Wisconsin are just more wordly. :)


They feel welcome enough to sneak across the border and send their money back to Mexico or Guatemala, or El Salvador, or wherever. One would think that after living here for ten or twenty years they would begin to feel assimilated.

I'm sure it's the ones who've been here ten or twenty years who don't speak the language or feel assimilated in any way. Do you honestly believe what you're saying here?


Shaking your head is not a rebuttal.

Quite so, but then again, not all points deserve a rebuttal. :)


I feel no distain for legal Mexican or other immigrants. I don't even feel distain for illegal Mexican or other immigrants. It is not a matter of feeling distain. It is a matter of wanting them to enter the country by legal means and to assimilate with the existing culture, not to try to change it to theirs. As I stated above, I would feel the same if the influx was of Russian immigrants or immigrants from any other country.

Fair enough, but as a student of history surely you know that the ideas you express regarding the current influx of hispanics into this country echo the sentiments expressed by many people to the influx of Chinese, Irish, Italians etc. when those groups experienced mass emigration to this country. The people expressing those ideas at the time were passionate about their beliefs and they were equally convinced of the accuracy of their ideas. As it happens, they were mistaken. The immigrants that they railed against have proved to be a boon to this country, not a burden as predicted. I suspect the same will be said in the future about the hispanics that are currently at the forefront of our immigration debate.

Yes, truth be told, these people do offer us a service (albeit a minimal one in the grand scheme of things), however, to justify their presence with a speculative newspaper article borders on insane.I used the article as an example of the kind of argument I find compelling. As I said before, there are good arguments on both sides. What I do not find compelling are arguments that paint Hispanics as undesirable or inferior human beings. Sorry, but on that point you will never persuade me.

Yes, truth be told, these people do offer us a service (albeit a minimal one in the grand scheme of things) minimal my ass. Americans would be starving, homeless, filth-ridden POS without immigrant labor. Your elitist attitude is pathetic.

At this moment, President Fox, of Mexico, is touring the U.S. His goal is to convince politicians that his people should be allowed to come to the U.S. to work.

This proves, to me, that the action would be of great benefit to the Mexican government. Why else would this guy promote it? He is not known for his benevolence to the Mexican people.

Illegal aliens are a net drain on the United States economy. They are consumers far more than they are producers.

1: They increase hospital costs for all Americans because the vast majority of them have no health insurance and insufficient money to pay their hospital bills so their hospital stays must be paid for by a surcharge on those who do pay.

2: The cost of automobile insurance is increased because so many of them drive uninsured vehicles. The state of Florida insist that insured drivers carry personal injury insurance because of all the uninsured drivers.

3: They depress wages by working for amounts below the former wage scale for jobs.

4: They negatively impact on minorities and the undereducated by taking jobs that were historically filled by members of those groups.

5: They increase the cost of education. ESL and bilingual classes must hire teachers, purchase books, have classroom space, etc., illegal aliens are over-represented in free breakfast and free lunch programs. These increased costs are paid for by the citizen taxpayers.



Many illegal aliens are demanding citizenship. Is anyone foolish enough to think they will work for the low wages they now receive if they become citizens? They will demand to make higher wages so we will just have new illegal aliens sneaking across the border to take their jobs at a lower wage.

minimal my ass. Americans would be starving, homeless, filth-ridden POS without immigrant labor. Your elitist attitude is pathetic.
LOL.

Yeah, I mean, how could the grand ole US of A survive without people to mow our lawns or wash our cars for us??? ::bites nails::

That aside, obviously, I'm not talking about legal immigrant labor, shithead. More importantly, the border-jumpers in question don't have a big enough lobby to cripple our economy. So, then you ask yourself, "how can they hurt us???" Good question, and the answer is: with a little help from their friends. You know, the LEGAL ones who have no respect.....

The ones who work at McDonalds, Wendy's, Burger King, Gotta love the 400 tons of fast-food Irony here: Taco Bell, Car Wash Central, Dave's Landscaping, Best Western, Holiday Inn, Howard Johnson's, Pisano della Italiano's Construction Company, Al's Tool and Die, Smith's Metal Fabricators, Banquet Hall / Restaurant Central, UPS, FedEx, DHL, and Six Flags. Oh, and before I forget; we've also got the incredibly essential Janitors, Jizz moppers, and Floor waxers union, which, mind you, is 95% Mexican and still growing. Now, you may ask yourself, "are these people really that important???" Of course they are; just like garbage men, street sweepers, and window washers are valuable assets to the business community, so are they. And more importantly than that, you can ask yourself, "are these people really capable of halting our economy???" Well, you just watched them do it semi-successfully May 1st, and the kicker is - they did it with the blessing of people just like you.

Yeah......I'm glad you're able to see just how much these people contribute to and love this country. :thumbs: :rolleyes:

Originally posted by Dan Fussell
At this moment, President Fox, of Mexico, is touring the U.S. His goal is to convince politicians that his people should be allowed to come to the U.S. to work.

This proves, to me, that the action would be of great benefit to the Mexican government. Why else would this guy promote it? He is not known for his benevolence to the Mexican people.

Of course he is...he wants the $$ that his people earn from the US to trickle back down into his own Country. You'd think that it would be an embarassment to him to want his people to find work elsewhere. Basically it's admitting that his economy/Country blows chunks.

Now, if the US were to make marijuana legal, all this could change drastically.

Of course he is...he wants the $$ that his people earn from the US to trickle back down into his own Country.

It doesn't trickle. It gushes. Remittance from Mexican immigrants living in the United States back to Mexico is that country's largest source of income. It is greater than the money they make from their petroleum industry and from tourism.

Vincente Fox made a veiled threat about the new U.S. border initiative while visiting the U.S.. I for one do not take kindly to leaders of corrupt governments threatening our country. He should be politely shown the door.

Senior Frog,'You do not take kindly to leaders of corrupt governments threatening your country',your leaving yourself wide open there mate...

[B]I for one do not take kindly to leaders of corrupt governments threatening our country. He should be politely shown the door.

All governments are corrupt. It's just a matter of degree.

Remittance from Mexican immigrants living in the United States back to Mexico is that country's largest source of income. It is greater than the money they make from their petroleum industry and from tourism.

Would love to see the copies of the financial reports of Mexico's foreign trade/income (exports/imports balance) that you have on hand, and has help you with this conclusion.

I don't have the report on hand but it was widely reported in the newspapers. The statement was made by the Mexican government, not the U.S. government.

http://www.diggersrealm.com/mt/archives/000911.html

You can easily Google the informaton. The above is only one of many links.