I was on a site called, "Christian Forums".

I wasnt to sure and didnt exactly read all of their requirements to post on their forums. Which stated that you have to agree with the Nicaea Creed. So I said in reply to someone that I rejected the Nicean Creed.
I was told very shortly after that I wasnt a Chistian for doing so.

So I began to wonder what the general public thinks.

What defines a Christian?

If you say you are a Christian, then you are one. It really doesn't need to be any more complicated than that.

Originally posted by Inviolable

What defines a Christian? [/B]
=================================
A person with a belief in Christ. That is what the word Christian comes from.

A Christian is someone who accepts Christ as his saviour.

If a person believes in Christ but doesn't believe in the bible could they still be Christian? what would god think about this.


Invioable; I wouldn't worry you seem to be Christian to me. Sounds more like they are trying to form a cult???

Originally posted by mad dog
If a person believes in Christ but doesn't believe in the bible could they still be Christian? what would god think about this.


If you believe in Christ you'd have to believe at least some of the Bible. As for how much you have to believe to be a Christian varies amongst denominations. Most don't take it as literal truth, so I guess in the eyes of the fundies they're not real Christians either.

Originally posted by mad dog
If a person believes in Christ but doesn't believe in the bible could they still be Christian? what would god think about this.


Invioable; I wouldn't worry you seem to be Christian to me. Sounds more like they are trying to form a cult???

Thanks all. Thanks mad dog.

The Nicean Council was established to unify the churches in so much so that they wanted to regulate the beliefe system.

The Catholic church sprang up from this. Its also when the Catholic church began to take power. My personal thinking is that the council was put together to appease the rulers of the time in an effort to gain stability.

After the 4th century the only bible that wasnt translated completely by Catholics is the Septuagint. The Septuagint was the first bible and is claimed to have been used by the apostles. So you can see how much influence they had. Oh! That and the New International Version.

To me a site demanding that all Christians agree to the Nicean Creed is in fact a Catholic site demanding that all Christians should conform to their beliefes.
But I could just be over stating the facts.

Personaly I would have to agree with you all on what a Christian is.

Took me a minute to catch onto your question. Knowing you and thinking about your question I should have just answered the best I can right away, but of course I had to edit this to answer it.
Probaly dont want me rambling on either.

I think it is as Dan said, a Christian is someone who accepts Christ. I dont think knowing anything about the bible qualifies but to accept Christ you would have to at least believe some of it.

Translations of the Septuangint are here if youre interested. You will have to download the new version of Abode to read it which is also at the same site.

http://ccat.sas.upenn.edu/nets/edition/

If you say you are a Christian, then you are one.

Sorry, Napsterbater but that simply isn't so. If I say I am a Hindu and don't believe in the Hindu pantheon I am not really a Hindu. a belief in the divinity of Jesus is a necessity if you want to be a
Christian.

Originally posted by Inviolable
I dont think knowing anything about the bible qualifies but to accept Christ you would have to at least believe some of it. Some people become Christians unexpectedly - they tell us Jesus kind of jumped, uninvited, into their hearts. Then, after the event, they go and get themselves a bible and read it. Personally I would say they are Christian from the moment of the revelation rather than at a certain time later after they have read x pages of the bible.

Some people become Christians unexpectedly - they tell us Jesus kind of jumped, uninvited, into their hearts. Then, after the event, they go and get themselves a bible and read it. Personally I would say they are Christian from the moment of the revelation rather than at a certain time later after they have read x pages of the bible.

Thats true.

I guess it would come down to the chicken and the egg.

*looks around in a daze at new forum format*

Thats true.

I guess it would come down to the chicken and the egg.
It certainly shows how silly people are to say you are not a Christian on the basis of this or that academic technicality.

Blob,

Christians need not read The Bible. In fact, Christians need not be able to read. They must believe in the divinity of Jesus though. If they don't believe that Jesus is the promised Messiah they can still be good, moral people but they can't be Christians.

Welcome TilEulenspiegel!

I agree entirely.

If they don't believe that Jesus is the promised Messiah they can still be good, moral people but they can't be Christians.
Reply With Quote
And what's more even Christians can be good, moral people. ;)

Welcome TilEulenspiegel!

No no, it's just Frogger facing some technical difficulties. :D

Yeah, but it's nice having two handles. I can always use Frogger when I want to be nice and TilEulenspiegel when I want to be a bit of an iconoclast.

Look up Til Eulenspiegel and you will see why I chose that as my alter ego.

Thanks to Borg, Frogger is up and hopping again.

A Christian is a Christ Man- if you trust Jesus as your Lord and Saviour then you are a Christian. It doesn't matter if you're a "perfectly moral" person if you were you'd have to be Jesus b/c he was the only sinless man,we are carnal & do have thoughts & perhaps sometimes we act on them. However, that doesn't mean we love Christ any less or that He loves us any less.When you ask God to forgive you for your sins he will & if you referred to them on meeting him he would say "what sin?" that's what I believe the Bible says.I strongly recommend you investigate anything having to do w/ Christianity for your self & don't listen to any man.Good Luck to you & Bless you all :)

A Christian can be someone who doesn't even believe in God!

Should I start going back to church again, (I haven't been in years) I would be considered Christian by all around me. As long as I don't do anything utterly stupid to blow the whole charade, people wouldn't suspect a thing!

I can go long enough to find a girlfriend, then sleep in Sunday mornings. Then I can date all her friends after we break up, and still put off going back! If I don't do something stupid to piss them all off, I can mine the same church for girlfriends for years!

You know what the real irony is there? That's how all the real Christians are!

To do unto others and to help those less fortunate.

In other words (or those of a great preist I saw) "being dangerously unselfish"

That would make the majority of Muslims Christian...

I was on a site called, "Christian Forums".

I wasnt to sure and didnt exactly read all of their requirements to post on their forums. Which stated that you have to agree with the Nicaea Creed. So I said in reply to someone that I rejected the Nicean Creed.
I was told very shortly after that I wasnt a Chistian for doing so.

So I began to wonder what the general public thinks.

What defines a Christian?

People who define themselves as christian are those who believe in mythology and then base their entire lives on it.

A Christian can be someone who doesn't even believe in God!

That's a silly statement even for you, napsterbater:lolhit: .

A Christian can be someone who doesn't even believe in God!

That's a silly statement even for you, napsterbater:lolhit: .To be fair Napster has a point.

I mentioned earlier people who suddenly convert to Christianity. We would all agree that from the moment of the pre-bible-reading revelation they are a Christian.

What about backsliders? Many continue going to church and consider themselves a Christian long after thay have begun to entertain serious doubts. At what precise moment do we cease to consider them a Christian?

And what about the many apathetic people with no serious committed belief who attend Church? Do we deem them all non-christians?

To be fair Napster has a point.

I mentioned earlier people who suddenly convert to Christianity. We would all agree that from the moment of the pre-bible-reading revelation they are a Christian.

What about backsliders? Many continue going to church and consider themselves a Christian long after thay have begun to entertain serious doubts. At what precise moment do we cease to consider them a Christian?

And what about the many apathetic people with no serious committed belief who attend Church? Do we deem them all non-christians?

Theres a verse or two in the bible that explains what you said.
Where Jesus calls backsliders and the like, lukewarm.

He states that they hurt the religion more then help it, considering they cant make up their mind.

He states that they hurt the religion more then help it, considering they cant make up their mind.

Terrible. Religion should serve people, not the other way around.

Terrible. Religion should serve people, not the other way around.



Its not so much that he is saying we shouldnt help them.
He is saying that they themselves are no help. If they continue to live the life and dont let anyone know then they give false testamony to anyone else in need. This also means they themselves wont get help because they aren't telling anyone.

Christianity or lack of it is something that is really all inside of yourself not on how people see you. you can be Christian and not go to church and you can go to church every single sunday and not be Christian. it's really all in your personal beliefs, my personal beliefs are in going to church every sunday but they aren't the same as everyone elses and I wouldn't want it to be, becouse then it would take all the debate and fun out of life.

Young lady, this is no place for sensible arguments. Now hie thee away!

After reading this thread, the only answer I can come up with to the question of "What defines a Christian?" is...someone else.

It seems as though everybody is more interested in defining it for other people rather than defining it for themselves. Whether or not you are a Christian should be a personal decision, and should rely little on the opinions of others.

If you believe in Christ you'd have to believe at least some of the Bible. As for how much you have to believe to be a Christian varies amongst denominations. Most don't take it as literal truth, so I guess in the eyes of the fundies they're not real Christians either.

Isn't this kind of like saying your an American but you love the way China is run? If the Bible is the owners manual to being a Christian then how can a person decide what to or not to follow? I own a jeep but I refer to the ford owners manual for maintenance{something doesn't sound right in the land of oz}. Either your Christian and follow the operators manual to a T or your something completely different?

[QUOTE=Blob]To be fair Napster has a point.

Sorry, blob, but Napster has no valid point. If you don't belive in God you can't believe in the divinity of Jesus. If you don't believe Jesus is the Son of God and part of the Trinity you cannot be a christian.

You can be something else. You can be a good person. You can be a moral person. You cannot be a Christian.

Ultimately, the decision of who is a Christian and who is not rests not in Frogger.

Isn't this kind of like saying your an American but you love the way China is run? If the Bible is the owners manual to being a Christian then how can a person decide what to or not to follow? I own a jeep but I refer to the ford owners manual for maintenance{something doesn't sound right in the land of oz}. Either your Christian and follow the operators manual to a T or your something completely different?

The question is whether we have the owners manual written by the company itself or just a how-to guide written written by some fairly knowledgeable people who pieced things together the best they could. Fundies tend towards the former, more "liberal" Christians tend towards the latter.

According to Napsterbater you can call your Jeep a Rolls Royce and it becomes a Rolls Royce. Then I guess you can use the Rolls Royce manual.

If you don't believe Jesus is the Son of God and part of the Trinity you cannot be a christian.


Well, you could up until the Council of Nicea...

I doubt the Jehovah's Witnesses or the Unitarians would agree with your interpretation of what it takes to be a Christian.

Frogger, I am not saying that "Christianity is this, Christianity is that." I have no use for that kind of arguing. Like Vile said, it is a personal decision and it should remain that way. What I do do is try to open people's eyes and attempt to get them to see possibilities they might not have guessed.

When you reduce it down to it's bare essentials, Vile's position is the same as my position. If nobody else can dictate who or what a Christian is, than that decision falls to the individual.

I just care more to make fun little asides that I think are insightful than to say what I really think. Just one of the hallmarks of the ignorant armchair philosopher.

LionelHutz; good answer, which also brings up the question how much truth is there in a religion?


Everyone; If you say God{Jesus} came to you, then couldn't you also say the Bible is false because Jesus told you this? Homosexuals, killers or anyone else that goes against the bible could really be Christians because Jesus talked to them. What I'm trying to say is anyone could be Christian as long as they say their Christ is their belief. So if this is the case then are there really any true Christians and is Christianity even a formed religion?

LionelHutz; good answer, which also brings up the question how much truth is there in a religion?


Everyone; If you say God{Jesus} came to you, then couldn't you also say the Bible is false because Jesus told you this? Homosexuals, killers or anyone else that goes against the bible could really be Christians because Jesus talked to them. What I'm trying to say is anyone could be Christian as long as they say their Christ is their belief. So if this is the case then are there really any true Christians and is Christianity even a formed religion?


Conversations with all of you have opened my eyes a little. I was wondering pretty much the same thing mad dog, about the bible being false. The thing that opened my eyes was a statement about how Christians in general remain ignorant because of their faith.

I am now doing research to write a book about the history of the bible.
A fellow christian thought maybe I shouldnt make the book, because it is a little to fourth coming. I asked him if his Christian mentor told him that God teaches the world was flat would he teach it as well?
He was baffled.
This is an age of knowledge and Christians arent going to get anywhere without knowing something.

I am now doing research to write a book about the history of the bible.
I would heartily recommend becoming familiar with the work of Bob Price (http://www.robertmprice.mindvendor.com/), one of the most respected authorities on the bible I know of. He is not a Christian but has a great passion for the bible and is admired for his intellectual honesty by many serious Christians as well as professional theologians. You can e-mail him questions and also listen in to his show every sunday at 4pm EST through the link I provided.

Best of luck with your project, Inviolable.

I would heartily recommend becoming familiar with the work of Bob Price (http://www.robertmprice.mindvendor.com/), one of the most respected authorities on the bible I know of. He is not a Christian but has a great passion for the bible and is admired for his intellectual honesty by many serious Christians as well as professional theologians. You can e-mail him questions and also listen in to his show every sunday at 4pm EST through the link I provided.

Best of luck with your project, Inviolable.


Thank you Blob.

Conversations with all of you have opened my eyes a little. I was wondering pretty much the same thing mad dog, about the bible being false. The thing that opened my eyes was a statement about how Christians in general remain ignorant because of their faith.

I'll assume that you mean those that think the world is flat and that the sun goes around the earth? My thought is that if the bible is a false teaching then would this make Christianity false also{this also goes for other man made religions}? Lets say Jesus was real, could people of yesteryear have used his being as a power gain? Example; Joe The Terrible claims to have known Jesus so he writes his version of a book{called the bible} to gain people and power? It is known that Constantine used Christianity to gain alot of his power, and he helped with the spread of his version of Christianity.

I am now doing research to write a book about the history of the bible.

Only if us folk at allforums get to see an example ;)

A fellow christian thought maybe I shouldnt make the book, because it is a little to fourth coming. I asked him if his Christian mentor told him that God teaches the world was flat would he teach it as well?
He was baffled.
This is an age of knowledge and Christians arent going to get anywhere without knowing something.

Once again maybe Jesus{God} did really visit but humans in their fight for power may have twisted the true message? In order to understand this we have to go back in time to a place that ruled by followers, and in order to get followers they used religion. Back then religion was in place instead of money like today.

You might also want to peruse the work of the late Isaac Asimov, "Asimov's Guide to the Bible," if you are really keen on this project.

I'll assume that you mean those that think the world is flat and that the sun goes around the earth? My thought is that if the bible is a false teaching then would this make Christianity false also{this also goes for other man made religions}? Lets say Jesus was real, could people of yesteryear have used his being as a power gain? Example; Joe The Terrible claims to have known Jesus so he writes his version of a book{called the bible} to gain people and power? It is known that Constantine used Christianity to gain alot of his power, and he helped with the spread of his version of Christianity.



Only if us folk at allforums get to see an example ;)



Once again maybe Jesus{God} did really visit but humans in their fight for power may have twisted the true message? In order to understand this we have to go back in time to a place that ruled by followers, and in order to get followers they used religion. Back then religion was in place instead of money like today.


I got in touch with Bob Price as Blob suggested. He is a very considerate person and very helpful. He has given me a multitude of options.

I think to answer your questions mad dog you yourself would have to do some research. The research I have done so far stears me in a different direction then what you are saying.
That would be from your perspective not mine. Taking for example that you dont believe their is a devil and what not.

I remember once you mentioned a fire when we were talking about the bible.

Just after Jesus was crusified Rome burned and the Christians of the time were blamed. So they were hunted down. I doubt any Christians of the time used the bible for power.
No actual power came from the bible until the 6th century when the pope of the time had the bible translated into Latin. That was only done to appease the followers who wanted a latin version. Then again in the 1600's when the King James version was finaly finished.
There are also documented dates and names to go with a few of the books writen in the bible and thats the old testament. So we know that the bible was writen by more then one person.

I think you would have more basis to your argument by sticking to how many times the bible has been translated. The english version alone has been translated at least six times.

Hey! I killed 2 birds with one stone lol
Answered your question and gave you a sample.

Thanks for the support all.

I got in touch with Bob Price as Blob suggested. He is a very considerate person and very helpful. He has given me a multitude of options.Cool! - I hear he is a very nice man. Glad it was helpful.

If you believe in Jesus, the Bible and God.
That's my very limited view. I don't know much about religions/religious things. I hardly know the difference between the old and new testament.

Invoilable

I think we are on the same note. Let me ask whether something was lost do to fire, translation, thieft, etc.... does it make a difference? If it is lost then the meaning can change. "I love birds", "I love birds very much" now take out the words that were changed or lost to kill. The real meaning was "I love to kill birds very much". 1st sentence you would say this guy seems peacefull with nature and maybe has a peacefull nature :). The turth is this guy is a jack butt towards nature and possible may not have a peacefull nature at all.

If you believe in Jesus, the Bible and God.
That's my very limited view. I don't know much about religions/religious things. I hardly know the difference between the old and new testament.

If you are religious there is a big difference.

Tha old testament is basically Jewish law. Its what the Jews hold to when it comes to their beliefes. The Jews dont wish to admit to the new testament because that would mean they killed Jesus. In a very basic meaning of course.

The new testament is for everyone. Where as before only one race of people could worship God now everyone can. In a very basic meaning of course.

Invoilable

I think we are on the same note. Let me ask whether something was lost do to fire, translation, thieft, etc.... does it make a difference? If it is lost then the meaning can change. "I love birds", "I love birds very much" now take out the words that were changed or lost to kill. The real meaning was "I love to kill birds very much". 1st sentence you would say this guy seems peacefull with nature and maybe has a peacefull nature :). The turth is this guy is a jack butt towards nature and possible may not have a peacefull nature at all.

I dont think the difference is as big as all that. One reason the bible has been translated so many different times is because the public at larg demanded that it be done right.

Here is a link about the Septuagint, the Septuagint is of Hebrew and Jewish mix the original bible and the only one to remain in tact.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Septuagint

I think if you want to discredit the religion it would be a lot easier to look at the religion in whole rather then just the bible.

The fire could of had a big impact, it could have been the reason the Jews were evicted from Jerusalem. When that happened a lot of information on the bishops of the time were lost. Currently there is no documentation on bishops of the 1st to 4th century. "Almost no info I should say" That would include the first bishop of Orthodox "James the brother of Jesus"

Definition of a Christian? Jesus, yer askin' ME?



Okay, then, how about some buddy who's gotta be DOUBLE crossed before they're dead, 'cuz they don't play by the rules?



www. jesus finally died due ta Pilate error... .edu




Definition of a Jehovah's Witness at my front door:


Noun: One who Odder immediately instructs to go pray in traffic


;(