I was just wondering how you folks feel about property tax? I read a thing about these guys that had built a hunting cabin with a metal roof for under 10,000 now the state is saying it's worth 200,000 because it is built where there is a nice view{bullsh**}. I also read about how property tax raises are getting way out of hand. Has England come back to take over or what? didn't we go to war at one time to get rid of sh** like this? Sorry for the flame and I really don't mean anything bad about england but lets keep some stuff seperate :hitout:

I'm with you mad dog ............we ought to have a tea party.

I go in ...every year ........and ask them for a rebate .....on the tax ........and argue that my home value has gone down ...........*L*.


Slim

I just feel this tax horse sh** is getting way out of hand just so congress can have a pay raise and aply money to some dumba** cause

Our state underwent a massive overhaul of the property tax system a few years ago.

The legislators, in their great wisdom, decided to make the new plan more in line with the property's fair market value. They said that, because most people's taxes would go up, they would be nice to us peasants and not raise the sales tax or sin taxes.

Yep, the property taxes went up all right--some people paid almost 200 % more than they had been. And, of course, they also raised the sales tax and sin taxes, and the county also voted themselves a new raise in the county tax.

The bums are now saying they are going to overhaul the system AGAIN and people's taxes could raise by double digits in the next 2 years--at least a 20% increase.

What are they going to do with this money? Besides voting themselves a lifetime of medical benefits for themselves AND THEIR FAMILIES, even ex-spouses, FOREVER??

I agree--time for another tea party! But don't dump tea in the harbor--throw the BUMS in!!!!!

I don't have a issue with the *idea* of property taxes, inasmuch as it's a way to have property owners pay for the services that they use. But they're definitely too high. Not to mention that people who don't own property can vote to increase the services provided to them by approving property tax hikes.

I pay about $17,000 a year in property tax and that's with certain tax breaks, veteran, homesteader, senior citizen, etc. Over the lifetime of my ownership of the property my taxes can add up to far more than the initial purchase price. there is something inherently wrong with a system like this.

I am also a victim of the 'view tax'. My condo in Pompano Beach is taxed at a higher rate than some neighboring apartments because I have a direct ocean view and they can see the ocean only if they go out on their balcony and look to the side.

What a rip. Not only do you have to pay an arm and a leg in taxes, you also have to worry about your property being condemned and given to some fatass who thinks he can bring in more state taxes than you!

I think I'll stick to renting.

Yes, but you'll probably see a big jump in your monthly rent as the owners pass off the extra cost to YOU.

We own property besides our house.. we have a farm that's been in the family for almost 200 years. I am really starting to think that our kids/grandkids will not see the day when they'll be able to maintain this land.
Something has GOT to be done. But what????? And don't say sell to Walmart! They will never get their greedy paws on this property!

Certainly, but at least I won't have to put up with all the headaches of home-ownership.

Give me a month-to-month lease on a nice downtown loft where I can just pick up and move at a moment's notice whenever I feel like spending serious time abroad.

That sounds nice, but I'm tied to my land myself. It has a way of reaching out and grabbing you.

Originally posted by LionelHutz
I don't have a issue with the *idea* of property taxes, inasmuch as it's a way to have property owners pay for the services that they use.

Lionelhutz please forgive me if I sound stupid asking this but what use do I get from the taxes that are taken?

But they're definitely too high. Not to mention that people who don't own property can vote to increase the services provided to them by approving property tax hikes.

To high is an under statement

All land changes, Ren, whether by human or natural hands. To me, wanting to spend most of your life in one area seems like a way to miss out on all of the pleasures the whole rest of the world can offer. It's not like you can take it with you when you kick the bucket... And it isn't fair to ask children to keep it if they don't want it. The best you can do is hope they will want it, or find someone else who shares your love for it to pass it on to.

Property is a messy business.

Napsterbater renting is fine if that is your way of life, but some of us enjoy our land and like being able to call it ours. I have built 3 ponds and stocked them with fish, instead of going to a store for fresh fish I go out to my back yard. I have built a small cabin etc... also. My family and I did all the work ourselfs and have invested alot of time blood sweat and tears to make a place that we are proud to call a home. I think it is BS how the government just keeps screwing the middle guy. People work very hard to buy a chunk of land {with or without a home} and call it theirs. Then BOOM the governement bombshell falls and takes it all away in a flash. THIS IS BS!!!! How many times can the government take tax on things? You pay taxes to buy then you pay while you own and then who ever buys from you pays tax again, horse sh** in its finest. Same goes for cars and other stuff, this tax sh** is way out of hand just so they can keep linning their damn pockets and gain power.

Originally posted by Napsterbater
All land changes, Ren, whether by human or natural hands. To me, wanting to spend most of your life in one area seems like a way to miss out on all of the pleasures the whole rest of the world can offer. It's not like you can take it with you when you kick the bucket... And it isn't fair to ask children to keep it if they don't want it. The best you can do is hope they will want it, or find someone else who shares your love for it to pass it on to.

Property is a messy business.

Did you ever think there are different types of people in the world? Maybe some of us want to stay in one place and enjoy our little garden, woods, pond, home, side walk, garage, pool, hot tub, swing set, well I think you get my point. What you want ut of life may be very different then want someone else wants?

Yes, mad dog, which is why I specifically outlined that it was my opinion with the opener, "To me, blah, blah, blah" If you are the type to read insult into every other person's words when they say something that challenges you however indirectly, maybe you should stick to your predictable family and friends.

People work very hard to buy a chunk of land {with or without a home} and call it theirs. Then BOOM the governement bombshell falls and takes it all away in a flash. THIS IS BS!!!!

Yes, it is very fucked up.

Originally posted by Napsterbater
Yes, mad dog, which is why I specifically outlined that it was my opinion with the opener, "To me, blah, blah, blah" If you are the type to read insult into every other person's words when they say something that challenges you however indirectly, maybe you should stick to your predictable family and friends.

WTF Napsterbater, I was just showing you a point of view, you shared yours so I thought I would try to enlighten you alittle to how others may feel. I was not flaming at you and fail to see how you saw it that way??? Take a chill pill and calm down!!!!!!!!

So why do you seem to think that I do not know this:

Did you ever think there are different types of people in the world? Maybe some of us want to stay in one place and enjoy our little garden, woods, pond, home, side walk, garage, pool, hot tub, swing set, well I think you get my point. What you want ut of life may be very different then want someone else wants?

It isn't like I've never met anyone like that...

Originally posted by Napsterbater
It's not like you can take it with you when you kick the bucket... And it isn't fair to ask children to keep it if they don't want it. The best you can do is hope they will want it, or find someone else who shares your love for it to pass it on to.

Property is a messy business.

This

I also have met alot of young folks that love to travel I myself was like this I drove tractor trailer for over 10+ yrs joined the service got to see other countries. I just think that this is a serious issue and someday even you may want to settle in 1 spot. I'm not knocking your life stlye in the least just giving some food for thought. If you don't mind are you ever planing on having a family? If so wouldn't it be nice to have a home, kids get to go to school for 13+yrs in the same area. Then if you decide to leave you make a profit not just a price back. I often here folks say well I bought that property back in so and so payed X amount for it. Sold it today for XX amount made a killing over what I originally payed. Then I ask how much a year did you pay in tax on that don't forget to add that into the overall price. Now the gold starts to look like silver.

Originally posted by Napsterbater
All land changes, Ren, whether by human or natural hands. To me, wanting to spend most of your life in one area seems like a way to miss out on all of the pleasures the whole rest of the world can offer. It's not like you can take it with you when you kick the bucket... And it isn't fair to ask children to keep it if they don't want it. The best you can do is hope they will want it, or find someone else who shares your love for it to pass it on to.

Property is a messy business.

A very messy business. It can cause no end of trouble.
Yet, I've had kin who've committed felonies to keep their land--and got even meaner when someone tried to take it away---like a g g grandpa, freshly back from the Civil War in which he lost an arm, a leg, but earned a medal, only to find out his land had been sherriffed cause his sickly wife couldn't pay the taxes.

His response was to burn the barns and outbuildings and everything else to the ground. (I think I've told this story before here). Anyway, if HE can go to so much trouble, why can't we? :). (The land was restored back to the family around the turn of the century).

I don't really feel as if I'm missing out by not traveling much. Still tho, if the kids don't want it (or grandkids) I sure hope they will pass it on to someone who'll appreciate it for what it is.

Rendova your gggrandpa is a hero, try that today and even though you built the house you'll still go to jail.

hehe, there's only one way to find out.......

Originally posted by mad dog
I read a thing about these guys that had built a hunting cabin with a metal roof for under 10,000 now the state is saying it's worth 200,000 because it is built where there is a nice view{bullsh**}.

I wonder if these guys have any of that old fashion blood in them? Sure would send a nice little message

I'm thinking that people are going to get pretty dang mean when they're put out on the streets because they're being taxed out of their homes--thru no fault of their own! It's bad enough lots of old folks have to eat dog food just to keep their places heated but people are going to get up in arms over this other, I'm thinking. And it's not over yet--just getting started.

Someday, maybe I will want a family. I have no idea. I too think it is a serious issue. Not everybody is like me. Shit like this makes property even messier and harder to upkeep than it was before. I'm just glad I don't have to deal with it directly.

If I had my say, though, my family would travel with me, and not attend public schools. Home is where you are at, not in some house that won't last longer than fifty years. I would give them a strong, multi-cultural upbringing and teach them how to deal with the world around them, so they could truly have a shot at getting the things they want from it, showing them how to live frugally and wholesomely.

I've seen the boonies of South Louisiana, and the people that grow up there. Lots of people love the land, and never end up leaving it. Great for them, but I have more important things to do with my own life. Getting tied down to something you can have anywhere you go is not a recipe for a great life.

It's true you can make a big profit off of land, and my father is doing just that. But he has an electrician, and he will build the houses himself. Great for him. He needs it. But even the six figure paycheck he's going to get from it and the leisurely lifestyle isn't enough to make me want to deal with all of that.

Most people get tied down not because of how great the place they are is, but because they are too afraid to get out there and really see. I've seen it way too many times.

Really, anywhere makes a nice home, so long as you have a blinding passion for whatever it is you are doing there. If you aren't, then you really need to reconsider what you are doing with your life. Because no one else is going to do it for you, and when you are on your deathbed, you are going to wonder why you didn't pound out that novel, why you never traveled.

Originally posted by Napsterbater
.when you are on your deathbed, you are going to wonder why you didn't pound out that novel, why you never traveled.

That's true, many people will have many regrets when it's their time.

I'm thinking that people are going to get pretty dang mean when they're put out on the streets because they're being taxed out of their homes--thru no fault of their own! It's bad enough lots of old folks have to eat dog food just to keep their places heated but people are going to get up in arms over this other, I'm thinking. And it's not over yet--just getting started.

One can only hope that as the situation gets worse and worse for older people, the younger ones will step up and provide a caring hand. I would never let my parents eat dog food!

A very messy business. It can cause no end of trouble.
Yet, I've had kin who've committed felonies to keep their land--and got even meaner when someone tried to take it away---like a g g grandpa, freshly back from the Civil War in which he lost an arm, a leg, but earned a medal, only to find out his land had been sherriffed cause his sickly wife couldn't pay the taxes.

His response was to burn the barns and outbuildings and everything else to the ground. (I think I've told this story before here). Anyway, if HE can go to so much trouble, why can't we? . (The land was restored back to the family around the turn of the century).

That's a real American story, Ren. Thanks for sharing it. I'm sure you have many like it. The past has many delightful and sometimes ironic things to say.

LOL, I'll bet that most of us have at least ONE outrageous character in their family, and probably more---maybe a new thread should be started--"Felonious Family Members", or "Arsonists I've known and loved..."

thanks for clearing things up Nap:), I just wanted to add sometimes people stay in a place not out of fear but out of belonging{just food for thought}. Like I've said I've traveled and enjoyed but I am now a loner and like to be left alone. I bought my piece of pie hoping that I'd be left alone. As Rendova said some folks want to retire were they sit and if that means eating dog food so they can have heat then they'll do it, but that does not make it right.

Originally posted by Napsterbater
Certainly, but at least I won't have to put up with all the headaches of home-ownership.

Give me a month-to-month lease on a nice downtown loft where I can just pick up and move at a moment's notice whenever I feel like spending serious time abroad.

Renting is money down the toilet.

Owning a house isn't messy at all & doesn't stop you moving. You can either sell the house or rent it out.

Home ownership is a great way to build up some serious $

Originally posted by DrewM

Home ownership is a great way to build up some serious $

Agree -- it's where the majority of your money should be invested. The remainder should be in interest-bearing accounts and liquid so you can get your hands on it so
when the housing market dips (like it is now) you can buy even more real estate at cheaper prices.

Real estate is now the stock market and will be for several generations to come. Play it right and you'll have a comfortable life -- not having health care and other inconveniences notwithstanding.

Renting is money down the toilet.


It isn't if renting is allowing you a lifestyle you wouldn't otherwise be able to have. Take myself for instance. I never have any idea how long I am going to stay in one place. Could be a month, could be two years. How much of a headache is buying and selling your house every single time you move?

What if I don't feel like absentee landlording? That's a business, you know, not an investment. Sure, there's people that will sell your house for you, but they are looking for money, money that will cut into any potential profits. Between that, property taxes, upkeep, repairs, improvements to the land, and capital gains taxes if you rent it out and then sell it, it really doesn't make a whole lot of sense anymore unless you live in it long enough to build real equity.

If you don't love property and buildings and aren't too keen on all of their headaches, you'd be better off finding your passion. Throwing money into any market without doing the research is throwing darts blindly.

Though if you have no other goals in life, I would surely recommend real estate.

I read somewhere that a house's value--any house--increases seven percent a year.

There aren't many investments that give a return like that. Even if you just hold on to the property for, say, 15 years, that will be a sizable return, and then a person can do what they like with that money.

There's no doubt, land is where the money is.

After inflation, taxes, upkeep, 7% just doesn't look like a whole lot. Sure, you can make a fortune in real estate. But don't forget that it's a business. If it were a gold mine, everyone would be doing it. We'd have hundreds of Donald Trumps. But not everybody is Donald Trump, not everybody has that kind of ability and passion. If you aren't on top of your business, you can lose thousands before you even know it.

I thought about the real estate market myself. I read Robert G. Allen's fun little book, Creating Wealth. Found out there was a whole business around, not selling real estate, but scamming people who want to get into real estate out of thousands of dollars. Then I read a real guru, John T. Reed, who elaborated on all of the sneaky tactics sleazeballs use to prey on people, and learned that there really ain't no such thing as a free lunch.

Real estate is one of those markets where it is easy to be taken for a ride. All these things add up into more and more things you have to do in order to protect your investment. I'm not saying you can't get rich, but by the time you get there, you might just wish you had done something more fulfilling with your life.

There's no doubt that people looking to get rich quick can get severely burned playing the real estate market (or really, ANY kind of market).

It takes a long time, a lot of work, to make a buck at anything.
But for folks just looking to have a decent nest egg, or to have something to leave their kids, a house just can't be beat, or a few acres somewhere....
There's only so much land out there..I heard that the priciest real estate in the world is along Michigan Avenue, Chicago. Price--1 million per inch. And that was several years ago!

Now what could a person do with one inch of ground?

Originally posted by mad dog
Lionelhutz please forgive me if I sound stupid asking this but what use do I get from the taxes that are taken?


It varies by locality, I think, but around here the schools, police, and fire all are directly funded by property taxes.

Originally posted by rendova
I read somewhere that a house's value--any house--increases seven percent a year.

That has to be an average. My last two houses increased more than that, but the housing market in northern Ohio isn't doing nearly that well.

Originally posted by rendova
Michigan Avenue, Chicago. Price--1 million per inch.

That can't possibly be correct - that would be $144 million per square foot.

That does seem excessive Lionel and I wish I could recall where I read this--I'll do some research and try to post a link--world's most expensive real estate.

Originally posted by LionelHutz
It varies by locality, I think, but around here the schools, police, and fire all are directly funded by property taxes.

Thanks , I figured that's what you were talking about but wasn't sure if there was something else I was missing. On average it takes the police 30-40+ min to get to my place so that doesn't do much good. The fire company is a joke{explain in a min} never used them and don't know if I ever will :( School is on a seperate property tax collection but this makes the most sense of all. I'm not against a fire company but I also see a huge waste. In citys or large townships fire stations make sense but out in the country they are a waste. Even the volunteer companies waste more money then what they save. I know this sounds harsh but lets say there is a company{volunteer} that has all the equipment etc.... They go to 1 -5 fires per year the turn around isn't worth the payout. The home's usually ruined either way and by the time the dept gets there the people are out or dead.

I still don't see how paying an outragous property tax has any return for a property owner? The only ones that benifit from this are the crooks dressed in sheep clothing.

Lets say there are 100 country folk paying an average of 5,000 a yr. in tax there is no way in heck they are getting 500,000 worth of return.

So far all I'm coming up with are world's most expensive houses, world's most expensive cities to live in....maybe Prae can help me out with this....I believe that price I quoted was cost of existing frontage on this street. Still plugging away.

Rendova the only thing I have come up with is the most expensive home. It is in bridgehamton NY it cost 75 million and has 60 acres. I believe the hot spots are Vegas and any costal area's

Here's a link to the Marriot Hotel, which was for sale and the owners thought the bids could go to $230 million. I don't know what it eventually cost...it's on North Michigan Avenue in Chicago and I'm unsure of the size of this place.

http://www.hotel-online.com/News/PR2002_4th/Oct02_ChicagoMarriott.html


I could have sworn I read that was the correct price --I mil per inch, but maybe it was foot? Maybe it was 100,000 per foot?
Maybe I never read it at all but just dreamed the whole thing, lol.

A very exclusive neighborhood, and one that a lot of people have never heard of, is Kenilworth, north of Chicago. I'm unsure of the asking prices on these homes, but you have to be more than rich to get in--the community leaders look at all sorts of things..so someone like Donald Chump would prob not get in.

Originally posted by mad dog
Thanks , I figured that's what you were talking about but wasn't sure if there was something else I was missing.

One major issue I have is when the fire, police, and schools come begging for a tax increase and predict dire consequences if they don't get it. If it takes more money to maintain current levels of service, then fine, I'll pay. But there's really no way to ever know if how carefully your government is spending your money, short of a major newspaper investigation.

Originally posted by mad dog
I still don't see how paying an outragous property tax has any return for a property owner? The only ones that benifit from this are the crooks dressed in sheep clothing.

Lets say there are 100 country folk paying an average of 5,000 a yr. in tax there is no way in heck they are getting 500,000 worth of return.

You're absolutely correct. I think the only people that come out even or ahead on the deal are the low income people that pay little or no taxes. There are more abstract benefits, of course - having the police keep the white trash trailer home people in check goes a long way towards keeping someone from walking away with my grill.

Originally posted by rendova
I could have sworn I read that was the correct price --I mil per inch, but maybe it was foot? Maybe it was 100,000 per foot?
Maybe I never read it at all but just dreamed the whole thing, lol.


Your earlier post about frontage makes sense - A $1 billion skyscraper plopped down on a 100 foot wide parcel would be $10 million per foot.

Originally posted by LionelHutz
One major issue I have is when the fire, police, and schools come begging for a tax increase and predict dire consequences if they don't get it. If it takes more money to maintain current levels of service, then fine, I'll pay. But there's really no way to ever know if how carefully your government is spending your money, short of a major newspaper investigation.

Agreed of course time allways tells the truth but that doesn't help the present.



You're absolutely correct. I think the only people that come out even or ahead on the deal are the low income people that pay little or no taxes. There are more abstract benefits, of course - having the police keep the white trash trailer home people in check goes a long way towards keeping someone from walking away with my grill.

geeeeessssssssssss all right all ready I'll bring the darn grill back. I didn't think you'd care so much after all it's not like it was brand new :D :D

Originally posted by rendova
I could have sworn I read that was the correct price --I mil per inch, but maybe it was foot? Maybe it was 100,000 per foot?
Maybe I never read it at all but just dreamed the whole thing, lol.

Oh great now I'm even coinfused more then normal :)

Originally posted by mad dog

geeeeessssssssssss all right all ready I'll bring the darn grill back. I didn't think you'd care so much after all it's not like it was brand new :D :D

I'll tell you what - you bring it back and I'll help take the wheels off of your house.

Location, location, location.

I bought seventeen acres in the Adirondak Park in the late sixties for twelve thousand dollars and sold it about forty years later for twenty two thousand. Of course the taxes were low but I sure didn't make much profit.

I bought a house on Long Island in 1978 for $65,500. The taxes are pretty high, $12,000 per year but a house down the court from me that is in poorer condition than mine just sold for a bit over $700,000. Even with all cost during the intervening years that's a good profit.

I bought my condo in Pompano Beach for $325,000 two years ago this coming June and another apartment in the building just went for just under $600,000. A quarter million dollar increase in less than two years is way better than any stock I could ever buy and I have the enjoyment of using the property until and unless I decide to sell.

After twenty years of renting you have a pile of rent receipts. After twenty years of owning you have a sizable increase in value. Never rent if you can afford to buy.

I would like to see the income tax and propety tax abolished and more taxes based on voluntary decisions. A website that has a good idea:
http://fairtax.org/

"Simply put, the FairTax replaces the way we're currently taxed - based on our annual income - with a tax on goods and services. The FairTax is a voluntary “consumption" tax: the more you buy, the more you pay in taxes, the less you buy, the less you pay in taxes.
It's simple.

Everyone pays their fair share of taxes, and with the FairTax rebate, spending up to the poverty level is tax free. The Federal government is fully funded, including Social Security and Medicare, and you don't need an expert to determine your Federal taxes.
It's simple."

I like this plan because it encourages people to be less wasteful and to spend more carefully. It doesn't penalize people for working more, or earning more income. Some think that this tax is unfair because it won't scale the way an income tax does; there is no way for the poor to get tax breaks. But this is entirely untrue. You can still show the government that you're a lazy, oops, I mean, poor American and get refunds if legislation wants to allow it.

Anyhow, the point is that taxes don't have to be involuntary. Voluntary taxes could work!

Depending on who you ask, most taxes still are!

I've heard of court cases where people who approach the idea in the right manner can win against the IRS. Most of them are attached to fifteen hundred dollar information packets, but that doesn't mean that it can't be true. Just hold on to your wallet.

Median Net Worth of All U.S. Homeowners: $284,400.00

Median Net worth of All U.S. Renters: $4,000.00

-Houston Chronicle, March 13, 2006, Advice: Personal Finance Column, Maybe We Are All Not Going Bancrupt


Slim

Which only says that those with money, buy. Not the other way around.

And it really needs to be an average for the numbers to be meaningful.

Take twenty people, 19 paupers with $5 and one billionare with $1,000,000,000


Average the numbers out, and you get around 50 mil. But the median number is $5.

We are talkin net worth numb nutts.

Soooooooooooo ...if this statistic is not meaningful to you .....you are a loser.


slim

As Mark Twain put it, there are three types of lies: lies, damn lies, and statistics.

Numbers never tell the whole story. Give me an average net worth, and some of the notable numbers on both ends of both scales, the renters and the buyers. Then I might be inclined to give all that data some credibility. 'Til then, I'll have to stick with the evidence gathered with these very eyes and ears.

Lessee, already reduced you to lame insults, what's next?

Every two bit loser has advice on how to make money. Few of them actually have any.

Napsterbator

He's talking median, not average.

There are basically three ways to compare numbers or amounts; mean, median and mode.

Mean is the sum of all numbers divided by the number of entries, commonly called the average.

Median is the middle number in a series.

Mode is the most common number in a series.

In the series:

1
2
3
4
4
4
5
6
6
7
8
9
10

The mean is 5.307...

The median is 5

The mode is 4

Slim is saying that when considering all homeowners one half have a net worth of more than $284,400 and one half have a net worth less than that, while one half of renters have a net worth of more than $4,000 and one half have a net worth of less than that.

Using the mean, oor average as you suggest would be basically meaningless since a small group of ultra wealthy homeowners could skew the results be far too great an amount. Since most homes sell for well over $100,000, many sell for over $500,000 and quite a few sell for amounts in the millions the average would be much higher than $284,000.

In my condominium complex the average price of an apartment is, for arguments sake, $500,00. Since there are 195 apartments the total value of all apartments is $97,500,000.

On the street adjoining us on the beach are 15 private homes that sell for an average price of $14,000,000.

Add the 195 apartments in my complex and the 15 private homes and you get a total value of $307,500,000.

Divide that by the 210 units of housing and you get an average price of $1,464,285 per unit, far from a realistic assessment of the true value of each unit.

Originally posted by Napsterbater

Take twenty people, 19 paupers with $5 and one billionare with $1,000,000,000


Average the numbers out, and you get around 50 mil. But the median number is $5.

Absolutely correct - $5, in this example, is the median.

Ummm, yeah, I knew that. I was explaining that exact idea to slim.

What matters more to me is the story of the person who rents, but exists at the top end of the net worth scale.

I don't think they actually have a list of numbers. The idea behind a median is the typical number out of the group. The typical renter has a net worth of $4000.

I really don't care about the masses of people who don't know how to make money. Which is why the numbers have little meaning for me. I want to know about the few people that do. And I want to know more important details than whether they rent or buy. Lifestyle, career, all those factors that go into such decisions, not the end product.

I look at the whole situation, not a few wriggling details.

Edit: I was speaking to Frogger.

The statistic is astounding.

Because they used the median ..............they are trying to tell something about the person (owner) ........or .........the household in the middle. The reason they use this statistic is because it is easier to figure ..........and ......it is a far better representation of any of the population than an average would be ......since an average can be skewed one way or the other a lot easier.

For this example (home owners with net worth) .....the average would be a number much larger ..........since the probability that people with spectacularly high net worths .........would own property rather than rent. In other words ..........those with the highest net worth would be property owners ......thus ...skewing the average to be a more high value than a lower value of representation.

I will use this figure to decide for myself .........that ....people who own property are far much better off than folks who rent property.


Slim

There's are few reasons or excuses why a person can not own if (s)he chooses to do so.

Even illegals own homes in AZ, CA and other states.

For those that choose to rent, I would imagine, it boils down to being mis-informed or just blind to the advantages of home ownership.

That is the whole point I was making numb nutts ............there are far fewer high net worth people .....who rent ........than low net worth people .........who rent.

Therefore ....the distribution would be positively skewed ...........and ......the mean (average ) would be a far less representative number ...........and ......it would be higher than the median value.

Sooo ....for this example ..........the median would be a lower number ........and .......would support your assinined view of the world ........far better than using the mean. You are your own worst enemy in this argument.

Let me just guess ......ummmmmmmm .......you went to public schools ..........???


Slim

I will say this once more slim. Hopefully you will get it this time, though the chances of that are well, slim.

I know that there are far fewer high net worth people who rent. I don't give a flying fuck. I have never been interested in the crowd of people who don't know how to make money. Nor am I interested in the majority of homeowners. That isn't my lifestyle. I stay in one place for spans of time ranging from three months to two years. If I bought and sold a house every two years, the net effect will be exactly the same as if I rented.

I am not interested in a representative number, I am interested in the number that suits my ideas. I want to know how the people who have money and my type of lifestyle, and how they did it. There is nothing new under the sun, certainly not people like me.

I don't care to make a point and say that renting is better than buying. Get that stupid thought out of your head. I am saying that for what I do, it serves me better to rent. I don't have time for absolute judgements.

Remember, they are just numbers. Pieces of information to assist you in making a decision.

You are the one with the asinine worldview. Quit trying to push it on others, dipshit.