paraphrased stuff from bush while in india.

"ameri(c)kans losing jobs is a hardship but they should use that as a reason to get a better educatiopn to survive in the 21st century. "

really? then it's a great thing you do to cut and reduce educational help?

"india is the world's largest democracy and should let religious tolerance and peace be the model."

then why do you let and encourage the influence of the christian right in everyday ameri(c)kan life and politics?

Ivan, look at some of the grammar and spelling on these boards. Those things are learned while in grammar school (for which the educatee isn't paying). Education in this country would improve greatly with more motivation and effort, not just money, money, money.

Tell me about the "religious right" standing in the way of peace.

Originally posted by ivan
[B]paraphrased stuff from bush while in india.

[quote]"ameri(c)kans

good boy:)

losing jobs is a hardship but they should use that as a reason to get a better education to survive in the 21st century. "

He's dumber then a cow with no head and he talks about edjumaction. Everything he's ever been in or done was handed to him how the hell would he know what it's like to work?

All of it seems like good advice to me.

For anyone to say that they don't have an opportunity for an education in this country .....they are the ignorant ones.

If there is a problem ......it is with the unionized government run schools.


Slim

Originally posted by Brooks

Tell me about the "religious right" standing in the way of peace.

I don't know if they **stand in the way of peace**..........but virtually every Religious Right type in this country that I know or have ever heard speak about it is strongly IN FAVOR OF this nation going to war and killing people who are "different" from us and who practice a different religion.

As best as I can tell, 100% of the Xtian *Religious Right* people in this country take the word of the Old Testament as the word of their God.

And THAT bloody, barbaric tome is filled with numerous instances of the Old Testament God ordering his followers to go out and slaughter "the enemy", right down to the women, the children and the animals. (unless, of course, the "kind and loving" god of the Bible instructs that the women prisoners are to be saved for his holy warriors to have sex with).

Waging wars and slaughtering **the others**, the *evil doers*, is a foundational precept of the religionist's "holy" book; the Bible.

its funny how the cowards on the left feel free to attack christians because they KNOW christians are tolerant and will do nothing to them, but they are to scared to even make a muslim mad for fear of getting blown up. "we dont want to make them mad!!!", then they turn around and make fun of gawd and thew sky fairy and so and so forth. It doesnt take a genius to see that cowardly libs show who the tolerant one are by who they decide to take on. they wont take on anything or anyone they are afraid of, and they are not afraid of christian conservatives becasue deep down they know christian conservatives are tolerant people who will not actually do anything but laugh at them and their stupid shit

Originally posted by slim
All of it seems like good advice to me.

Good advise comming from a person that believes in my a** is rich so it don't stink. :( Sorry a facist may make their advice sound good but in the end it real only helps them get richer while making sure a certain % stays inline giving them their allmighty dollar. Not everyone can be rich other wise certain groups would lose their power :( sad but very very true.

For anyone to say that they don't have an opportunity for an education in this country .....they are the ignorant ones.

I disagree with this somewhat, go to the poor sections and tell me how great the schooling is for a family that has no choice? Tell Bob at the GM plant to quit moving around from place to place so his kids have a chance. Now tell Bob how much college will rip him off........ Schooling in this country has turned into crap like everything else A BIG FAT MONEY MAKER!!!

If there is a problem ......it is with the unionized government run schools.

Agreed now take a look at the whole picture.

Slim I don't disagree with you completely just trying to show the other side of the fence. If it smells like sh** looks like sh** taste like sh**........it probably is sh**.

Bush's comments make sense to me and education is typically controlled at the local level and varies state to state, county to county. Even the worst schools offer a better education than most countries offer.

There are opportunities a plenty in the US if you pull your finger out of your ass.

The jobs that are in India - belong in India. It's that simple.

Originally posted by Travh20
its funny how the cowards on the left feel free to attack christians...

It is not an "attack" -- just a statement of facts.

Originally posted by Travh20
..... because they KNOW christians are tolerant and will do nothing to them

ROTFLOL. The Xtians in this country are among the least tolerant people I know. IF they were "tolerant" they would not be up in arms denying gays the right to receive a marriage license. IF they were "tolerant", they would not be directing violence toward abortion providers. IF they were tolerant, they would not constantly be berating Congress and demanding that their irrational superstitions and "Bible-based morality" be codified into the laws that everyone else must adhere to.

_____________________________

""Religious people often accuse atheists of being arrogant and placing ourselves in the position of god, but really it is the theist who has all the vanity. The religionist is an ignorant coward who can't stand to think that he will ever cease to exist"".____Marian Noel Sherman

It's true that the christian radicals are one of this countries biggest problems.

Originally posted by DrewM
Bush's comments make sense to me and education is typically controlled at the local level and varies state to state, county to county. Even the worst schools offer a better education than most countries offer.

There are opportunities a plenty in the US if you pull your finger out of your ass. "pull my finger :)"

The jobs that are in India - belong in India. It's that simple. [/B]

Drew I agree to a point with what your saying but look at it from this angle. Your the prez/big dog/boss/owner of a company. Do you have all of your employees hold the same rank as you? no of course not, America is ran the same way there has to be a certain % that "are dumbed down" otherwise everything falls apart, power is lost.

Now your comment about India is interesting are you saying let the third world countries have all the crap jobs? If so, then thats all pretty in a false world. Who will pave your road who will dig your septic, who will drill the well, who will pick up your garbage, who will slaughter the cow you eat. etc etc etc..... We have stabbed are farmers in the back butt kissed Bill Gates a**, this is not about being treated equal this is about making money nothing more. I know it may be hard for you to see the point I'm trying to make, that's not the issue, the issue is that is what happens.

Tell Bob at the GM plant ...........and the little guy in the intercity ......to scream and yell to their leaders ....that we need a voucher system in this country .....so our tax dollars can be used at schools that offer better opportunities.


Slim

Originally posted by slim
Tell Bob at the GM plant ...........and the little guy in the intercity ......to scream and yell to their leaders ....that we need a voucher system in this country .....so our tax dollars can be used at schools that offer better opportunities.


Slim

Bwah haa haa haa hee hee LMAO :D and while there at it I'll tell them to vote for an "honest politicain", oh and I'll tell them their vote counts too :D :D. Then I'll tell them to play the lotery because the NY Government promissed that money would go to the schools etc... LMAO :D this sh** is just to damn Funny. :D :D

A blind man could see how the system is screwing the working class why can't someone with sight see? Don't worry about it heck it's not directly related to you just worry about domino's and owning a new car every 2nd year hell that's the American way.

Oh I allmost forgot the next time taxes go up that money is going to go for education YAY YAHOO!!! that is once congress gets there monthly raise out of it :(

Originally posted by Freethinker
It is not an "attack" -- just a statement of facts.

Cut the crap FT... you said all of the christians that "you" have talked to... and who knows WHO that is. That is your opinion..not facts... get it right idiot.

Originally posted by Freethinker

ROTFLOL. The Xtians in this country are among the least tolerant people I know.

O really? have you heard of any christians who have cut off someone's head for saying the Lord's name in vain? Please tell me i'm all ears.
Originally posted by Freethinker

IF they were "tolerant" they would not be up in arms denying gays the right to receive a marriage license.

This topic has been discussed THOROUGHLY.. and from what i can tell it is pretty much all about gays wanting more, and when they get more, they want MORE. I dont agree with denying them the rights OF marriage.. but why would they want to rain on the parade of christians and try to be able to get a "marriage license"?.. well i'll tell you why, because you can get "married" through a court and through gov't. That is what is wrong with this whole issue. Religious marriages should not be labeled the same as secular marriages. They should be granted equal rights and equal tax breaks.... but some people hold the sacraments very high. It amazes me that so many secular people enjoy shitting on christian views...
Originally posted by Freethinker

IF they were "tolerant", they would not be directing violence toward abortion providers.

Violence?? Please tell me about the car bombs, assassinations, and rocket lauch attacks FT. That is what other religions resort to... do christians do this?
Originally posted by Freethinker

IF they were tolerant, they would not constantly be berating Congress and demanding that their irrational superstitions and "Bible-based morality" be codified into the laws that everyone else must adhere to.

Sorry dude... IF someone gets voted in, their views are what is represented. That is what america is all about. Don't hate the players, hate the game.

Originally posted by mad dog
Now your comment about India is interesting are you saying let the third world countries have all the crap jobs? If so, then thats all pretty in a false world. Who will pave your road who will dig your septic, who will drill the well, who will pick up your garbage, who will slaughter the cow you eat. etc etc etc..... We have stabbed are farmers in the back butt kissed Bill Gates a**, this is not about being treated equal this is about making money nothing more. I know it may be hard for you to see the point I'm trying to make, that's not the issue, the issue is that is what happens.

I never said anything like that at all. I said the jobs that belong in India belong in india. That is defined by whatever the markets define.

There are of course millions of jobs that can never move abroad & millions of jobs that can and will.

Eventhough jobs have been moving abroad since the 50's - employment has always gone up over the long haul. People get upset about outsourcing only because they don't look at the bigger picture.

Originally posted by DrewM
I never said anything like that at all. I said the jobs that belong in India belong in india. That is defined by whatever the markets define.

This is why I questioned what you were saying, I respect your point of view, but was alittle lost, sorry.

There are of course millions of jobs that can never move abroad & millions of jobs that can and will.

agreed, something that comes to mind, a union demands more money then what a product is worth owner moves company to different country. This can also go backwords, a greedy company owner goes to a third world country{sweat shops} just so he can line is pockets with American cash.

Eventhough jobs have been moving abroad since the 50's - employment has always gone up over the long haul. People get upset about outsourcing only because they don't look at the bigger picture.

Agreed my main concern is not so much with outsourcing but with what price do the American people pay in the long run? My example of farming is one, is it all that smart to make ourselfs dependant on other countrys? Will Bill Gates help feed America when our food products don't exist here? I just think we should wise up to what is going on, the rich could care less about the country and they'll do whatever they need for money. I'm sure Donald T could live in China just as well as he could here?????

It is not an "attack" -- just a statement of facts.


Originally posted by Decka
Cut the crap FT... you said all of the christians that "you" have talked to... and who knows WHO that is. That is your opinion..not facts... get it right idiot.

You are the one who needs to **get it right**.

I said virtually all of them, and i also included the Religious Reich types [and there is NO shortage of them in THIS country, spewing their anti-human views] speaking out on every form of Media from the news to magazines to tv and radio. Is is painfully obvious that the majority of **religious people** in this country are Bush supporters, thus they are war supporters.


ROTFLOL. The Xtians in this country are among the least tolerant people I know.

Originally posted by Decka
O really? have you heard of any christians who have cut off someone's head for saying the Lord's name in vain? Please tell me i'm all ears.

Yes, I have heard of thousands of Bible believers who have not only cut off the heads of men and women who were "unbelievers' in their Biblegawd, but they ALSO hacked to pieces the infants of those people with their swords. They ALSO hacked to death all the animals. I'll provide the specific details of the occurences if you insist.

IF they were "tolerant" they would not be up in arms denying gays the right to receive a marriage license.

Originally posted by Decka
This topic has been discussed THOROUGHLY.. and from what i can tell it is pretty much all about gays wanting more, and when they get more, they want MORE. I dont agree with denying them the rights OF marriage.. but why would they want to rain on the parade of christians and try to be able to get a "marriage license"?...

I fail to see how granting gays equal rights to marriage licenses would **rain on the parade of** (or have the slightest effect on) the Xtians in question.

IF they were "tolerant", they would not be directing violence toward abortion providers.



Originally posted by Decka
Violence?? Please tell me about the car bombs, assassinations, and rocket lauch attacks FT. That is what other religions resort to... do christians do this?

Yes, they certainly DO do that.

Not with rocket launchers (yet), but YES, they do it with bombs and with assassinations and with high powered rifles, and with incessant forms of verbal and physical attacks on abortion clinics and the people working there and the people entering them.

Myriad such attacks have been reported in the news.

IF they were tolerant, they would not constantly be berating Congress and demanding that their irrational superstitions and "Bible-based morality" be codified into the laws that everyone else must adhere to.

Originally posted by Decka
Sorry dude... IF someone gets voted in, their views are what is represented. That is what america is all about. Don't hate the players, hate the game.

I despise both.

Politicians are elected to represent ALL the people.

Just because a politician is elected does NOT mean he should begin to immediately bow to pressure from the religious faction and their endless special interest issues.

Not everyone in this country is a religious believer, and it is unfair for our elected officials to endlessly cowtow to the religious faction, by codifying their innumerable irrational beliefs, prejudices and superstitions into the laws of the land.

Take you ball and go home .......*L*


Slim

These militant, intolerant, body-hacking Christians you describe comprise what percentage of the Christians in this country, would you say?

5%

Originally posted by DrewM
People get upset about outsourcing only because they don't look at the bigger picture.
Truer words have never been spoken.

Originally posted by Brooks
These militant, intolerant, body-hacking Christians you describe comprise what percentage of the Christians in this country, would you say?
Originally posted by DrewM
5%

We have 5 percent of 76 percent of the country that fall into the 'militant, intolerant, body-hacking' category?

Originally posted by DrewM
5%
Puhleeze, Drew...

"5%"??? I agree that radical Christians are a huge problem in this country, but outside of being socially backwards, and somewhat problematic, I can't recall a single case where some whack job, body-hacking Christian killed a family in the name of his god. Don't you go pullin' an FT on me...

Freethikner is an asshole, its not an attack, its just a statement of fact :D

Originally posted by The Praetorian
I can't recall a single case where some whack job, body-hacking Christian killed a family in the name of his god. Don't you go pullin' an FT on me...

Don't be so sure; that blood thirsty Pat Robertson and his followers are out hunting for souls with pickaxes this time of year.

I think Drew was being facetious because I worded the question so Freethinkerly.

Originally posted by Brooks
I think Drew was being facetious because I worded the question so Freethinkerly.

Rather obvious he was exaggerating, it was worth a chuckle.

Originally posted by Brooks
I think Drew was being facetious because I worded the question so Freethinkerly.
God, I hope so.

I should have said 20% then it would have been more obvious.

Originally posted by slim
Tell Bob at the GM plant ...........and the little guy in the intercity ......to scream and yell to their leaders ....that we need a voucher system in this country .....so our tax dollars can be used at schools that offer better opportunities.

We have such a system in this state. It needs to be abolished. We have a public school system that's funded by tax dollars and everyone can send their children there if they wish. Yes, there are problems in the educational system, and while throwing more money at the problem is likely not the answer, taking money out of the system to send some kids to private schools is definintely not the answer either.

If you want to send your kid to a private school, get out your checkbook.

Originally posted by Brooks
Tell me about the "religious right" standing in the way of peace.

Assuming here you're talking about world peace...

Fundamentalist Christians who believe that the Bible is the literal truth often believe the account of Armageddon given in the Book of Revelations. According to the story, one of the events leading up to Armageddon will be the rebuilding of the Temple of Jerusalem, presumably by the Jews. One small problem with this is that the site is currently occupied by the Dome of the Rock, which the Muslims are rather fond of. If the the Israelis were to destroy the Dome of the Rock, many Christians in this country would just assume it was God's will and probably have little problem with it, as it simply follows biblical prophecy. It isn't even inconceivable that Christians would be in favor of such an event.

I realize that most Cristians might not hold such a literal interpretation of the Bible, and they might be appalled if Israel were to set upon this course of action, but there are some who believe this event is inevitable, and would support such action.

Originally posted by The Praetorian
Puhleeze, Drew...

... I can't recall a single case where some whack job, body-hacking Christian killed a family in the name of his god. Don't you go pullin' an FT on me...

Charles Manson, David Koresh, Timothy McVeigh, Dick Cheney, Donald Rumsfeld, H.W. Bush, G.W. Bush, etc.

Before you go saying that the Bushes, Cheney and Rumsfeld haven't killed anybody in the name of their God....ask yourself this question....Would they have been so eager to partner up with Saddam's reign of terror over his people, if his people had been majority Christian? Or if that's not good enough for you, would they have allowed an American bomber to drop a bomb on a Christian neighbourhood in the U.S. if they suspected that Zawahiri was in a specific home?

You people suggesting that Islam is barbaric and Christianity is civilized...is absolutely dumbfounding and absurd! Islam and Christianity are practically the exact same religion, for one. Among the only differences are the fact that Islam believes God spared Jesus from the crucifixion and replaced him with bad guy Judas I believe it was....and they don't believe that Jesus was the son of God, but rather, a prophet like Muhammad. Other than that, you'll find that Islam and Christianity are one and the same religion.

Besides, you're forgetting that in the areas you mention where Islam is all the rage, the areas aren't modern. They're poor and are essentially living in the same era in terms of modernization as our countries were a century ago. Think about all the things Christians did here back then. They hung people for being different. They whipped their daughters for having pre-marital sex. They rode around with white sheets over their heads burning crosses and then went to church on Sunday. Etc.

Originally posted by Travh20
its funny how the cowards on the left feel free to attack christians because they KNOW christians are tolerant and will do nothing to them, but they are to scared to even make a muslim mad for fear of getting blown up. "we dont want to make them mad!!!", then they turn around and make fun of gawd and thew sky fairy and so and so forth. It doesnt take a genius to see that cowardly libs show who the tolerant one are by who they decide to take on. they wont take on anything or anyone they are afraid of, and they are not afraid of christian conservatives becasue deep down they know christian conservatives are tolerant people who will not actually do anything but laugh at them and their stupid shit

The term "tolerant Christians" is a bit of an oxymoron isn't it? I mean, we are talking about Christians whom are Christians because they believe they're better than other religions or non-believers. They believe they're on the inside track to Heaven and the rest of us are going to Hell just because we refuse to be brainwashed. That's hardly very tolerant of them! Yes, there are tolerant Christians but believe me, they're the extreme minority!

Also, my 16 year old niece got dumped by her boyfriend because his mother told him she wasn't Christian. :rolleyes: I happen to know the mother and she had her son when she was only 17 and wasn't married. She's saying that my niece, whom happens to be a straight A student, a virgin, very pretty and a very well behaved young woman isn't good enough for her son because she isn't Christian....give me a freakin' break! It must be a chore to be so damned tolerant all the time. :rolleyes:

Ack. Everybody Christian I meet just assumes that I am also a Christian. Such an innocent assumption...

Originally posted by She-devil
Charles Manson, David Koresh, Timothy McVeigh, Dick Cheney, Donald Rumsfeld, H.W. Bush, G.W. Bush, etc.

None of these examples fit the subject.

Before you go saying that the Bushes, Cheney and Rumsfeld haven't killed anybody in the name of their God....ask yourself this question....Would they have been so eager to partner up with Saddam's reign of terror over his people, if his people had been majority Christian? Or if that's not good enough for you, would they have allowed an American bomber to drop a bomb on a Christian neighbourhood in the U.S. if they suspected that Zawahiri was in a specific home?

So because mindsets and actions would change provided the religion of the region changed, that immediately carries over to mean that the US is mercilessly bombing all the Muslims they find in the name of God. Fantastic logic.

You people suggesting that Islam is barbaric and Christianity is civilized...is absolutely dumbfounding and absurd!

You don't get out much, do you?
Look at Europe, than go to the Middle East, then we'll pull out the parts of the Qu'ran and the Bible that are practiced and put into use, then we can reassess your position.

Islam and Christianity are practically the exact same religion, for one.

And for two, no, no they aren't. Saying that means you've not a good grip on the theology and history of both.

Among the only differences are the fact that Islam believes God spared Jesus from the crucifixion and replaced him with bad guy Judas I believe it was....and they don't believe that Jesus was the son of God, but rather, a prophet like Muhammad. Other than that, you'll find that Islam and Christianity are one and the same religion.

"Among the only" is to laugh. Stop talking about things you've hardly any clue what you are talking about.

Besides, you're forgetting that in the areas you mention where Islam is all the rage, the areas aren't modern. They're poor and are essentially living in the same era in terms of modernization as our countries were a century ago.

Some places even farther than just one. Also, you speak like the prominence of the faiths in those regions had no effect on them, which is rather odd. It can be argued that they aren't "modern" because they are fundamentalist Qu'ran adherents, while Europe was blessed with better land, and a more liberal faith as a result of rebellious leaders and/or peoples.

Think about all the things Christians did here back then. They hung people for being different. They whipped their daughters for having pre-marital sex. They rode around with white sheets over their heads burning crosses and then went to church on Sunday. Etc.

Yes, pulling out examples of the KKK, and puritanical forces like in Salem is such a good indicator of the entire behavior of the entire faith. You astound me with your intelligence.

The term "tolerant Christians" is a bit of an oxymoron isn't it?

Not if you're familiar with Jesus of Nazareth's teachings.

I mean, we are talking about Christians whom are Christians because they believe they're better than other religions or non-believers.

Yes, Christians are Christians because they believe/want to be better than other religions.

How about some ketchup with those lies?

They believe they're on the inside track to Heaven and the rest of us are going to Hell just because we refuse to be brainwashed. That's hardly very tolerant of them!

"Brainwashed" as you see it, is merely "having faith" to them; the difference in terminology effects the outlook. Also, yes that is tolerant of them to let you go about your business all the while "damning yourself to Hell". Belief and action are two different things.

Also, my 16 year old niece got dumped by her boyfriend because his mother told him she wasn't Christian. I happen to know the mother and she had her son when she was only 17 and wasn't married. She's saying that my niece, whom happens to be a straight A student, a virgin, very pretty and a very well behaved young woman isn't good enough for her son because she isn't Christian....give me a freakin' break! It must be a chore to be so damned tolerant all the time.

A) She strikes me as a very rigid, intolerant person--perhaps converted to the faith because of the struggles she faced in early life.
B) As the parent, she can do what she pleases, and I doubt you know the full story of the reason for the "dumping."

Originally posted by Brooks
These militant, intolerant, body-hacking Christians you describe comprise what percentage of the Christians in this country, would you say?

Of the ones in contemporary American society, the number who actively participate in the hacking of people to death would --it must be admitted-- be an extremely small number.

It should at the same time, however, be pointed out that upwards of 80% of the American public claim adherance to a religion whose god --a deity they actually claim is some sort of "perfect" being-- ordered his followers to hack small infants to death with swords. Also the cows. And sheep. And all other animals owned by the people he ordered his followers to slaughter.

<sigh> Gosh....what a wonderful loving god he must be. But then, those cows and sheep (and obviously the fiendish infants) WERE no doubt evil doers who just HAD to be hacked to death. For their own good, naturally.

_________________________________

""Adolph Hitler could only have done what he did if the community psyche was geared to comply with such a reasonable policy and see it as reasonable. Millennia of Christian anti-Semitism found its final articulation --destroying for once and all the Christ killing Jews. The Poles, French, Russians and the Pope participated in full to ensure this slaughter took place as efficiently as possible. Hitler never stood alone at Dachau. He had his willing partners. Christianity set the scene, Hitler carried out its orders. Hitler was the tool but Christianity as a faith stands condemned........Blaming a religion for problems instead of the individuals who perpetrate them. That is kind of what Hitler and his people did isn't it? It still goes on today. And it is this patronising copout, pregnant with sanctimony, that sets the scene for the next generation of Hitlers. Don't examine the faith, just blame the messenger and play Pilate yet again. Enjoy your sanctimonous life my friend but it does not stop Christianity from setting the scene for more crimes perpetrated by Christian extremists. The Rev. Fred Phelps and his ravings on the death of Matthew Shepherd articulates the homophobia of Christianity and its results. The killing of doctors who perform abortions articulates further Christian sanctioned murder. And so it goes on. New Hitlers are born because Christianity promotes extremism and does little to reign in the extremists, but quite the contrary, gives them succour. And you my friend have done that yourself in your sanctimonious dismissal of my pointing out what sort of deity the god of the Christians really is. You shield those killers by your comments.""

Originally posted by She-devil
The term "tolerant Christians" is a bit of an oxymoron isn't it? I mean, we are talking about Christians whom are Christians because they believe they're better than other religions or non-believers. They believe they're on the inside track to Heaven and the rest of us are going to Hell just because we refuse to be brainwashed. That's hardly very tolerant of them! Yes, there are tolerant Christians but believe me, they're the extreme minority!

Also, my 16 year old niece got dumped by her boyfriend because his mother told him she wasn't Christian. :rolleyes: I happen to know the mother and she had her son when she was only 17 and wasn't married. She's saying that my niece, whom happens to be a straight A student, a virgin, very pretty and a very well behaved young woman isn't good enough for her son because she isn't Christian....give me a freakin' break! It must be a chore to be so damned tolerant all the time. :rolleyes:

Thats right, tollerant. In light of all that has happened in the world of islam recently I would think someone would be ready to accept the fact christians arent the maniacs they are portyaed as by the "if it feels good do it" crowd who are the only ones threatened by a sense of right and wrong. I stand by my opinion that leftists who attack christians are cowrards who turn a blind eye to a religion who cuts peopels heads off and burns down towns over cartoons to attack christians who have done the horrible crime of daring not accept their way of life

Does this christian qualify as being a maniac?

http://video.google.com/videoplay?docid=5464505634137914176

Originally posted by She-devil
Also, my 16 year old niece got dumped by her boyfriend because his mother told him she wasn't Christian. :rolleyes:
ROTFLOL! Correction, sweetheart: that's what you call a convenient excuse. What deluded 16-year-old boy listens to his mother over a piece of ass? "Uh, sorry, sweetie, but......I.......just.......can't bare thinking that my mom has a problem with your........religious convictions!"......"But Tom, didn't having sex mean anything to you???"......."Of course it did, but we......just......can't......see one another anymore...."

What's strong enough for a man, but made for a woman? My guess is the back of Tom's hand. Pow, bitch - deal with it.
Originally posted by She-devil
I happen to know the mother and she had her son when she was only 17 and wasn't married.
Case in point. I smell a story, why don't you?

What deluded 16-year-old boy listens to his mother over a piece of ass?

You have a point there, Prae, but the kid is sixteen, not eighteen, not yet old enough for the hormones to overtake the senses. Kids that age are for the most part still clueless.

Originally posted by Napsterbater
You have a point there, Prae, but the kid is sixteen, not eighteen, not yet old enough for the hormones to overtake the senses. Kids that age are for the most part still clueless.
I'm assuming he's 16, however if the chick in question is anything like her aunt, then I wouldn't be surprised if the dude were 25 while living with his single mom and two cats. On the other hand, I already know that She-devil is roughly 33, so if she knew his mother when she was pregnant with him @ 17, then it's conceivable that they're roughly the same age. The math would make the kid 16 or 17.

Originally posted by The Praetorian
ROTFLOL! Correction, sweetheart: that's what you call a convenient excuse. What deluded 16-year-old boy listens to his mother over a piece of ass? "Uh, sorry, sweetie, but......I.......just.......can't bare thinking that my mom has a problem with your........religious convictions!"......"But Tom, didn't having sex mean anything to you???"......."Of course it did, but we......just......can't......see one another anymore...."

What's strong enough for a man, but made for a woman? My guess is the back of Tom's hand. Pow, bitch - deal with it.

Case in point. I smell a story, why don't you?

Do you have any idea what you're talking about? :rolleyes: The boy is 17 and he listens to his parents because they scare the shit out of the kids. His 16 year old sister was best friends with my niece....in order for the parents to accept my niece as their daughter's best friend, my niece had to go to their Christian youth group every Wednesday night. The mother's sister's kids are just as afraid of their religious freak parents...their children get married at 18 just so they can finally have sex with their parents permission. :rolleyes: Intelligent isn't it?

Originally posted by Evakian
None of these examples fit the subject.

So because mindsets and actions would change provided the religion of the region changed, that immediately carries over to mean that the US is mercilessly bombing all the Muslims they find in the name of God. Fantastic logic.

You don't get out much, do you?
Look at Europe, than go to the Middle East, then we'll pull out the parts of the Qu'ran and the Bible that are practiced and put into use, then we can reassess your position.

And for two, no, no they aren't. Saying that means you've not a good grip on the theology and history of both.

"Among the only" is to laugh. Stop talking about things you've hardly any clue what you are talking about.

Some places even farther than just one. Also, you speak like the prominence of the faiths in those regions had no effect on them, which is rather odd. It can be argued that they aren't "modern" because they are fundamentalist Qu'ran adherents, while Europe was blessed with better land, and a more liberal faith as a result of rebellious leaders and/or peoples.

Yes, pulling out examples of the KKK, and puritanical forces like in Salem is such a good indicator of the entire behavior of the entire faith. You astound me with your intelligence.

Not if you're familiar with Jesus of Nazareth's teachings.

Yes, Christians are Christians because they believe/want to be better than other religions.

How about some ketchup with those lies?

"Brainwashed" as you see it, is merely "having faith" to them; the difference in terminology effects the outlook. Also, yes that is tolerant of them to let you go about your business all the while "damning yourself to Hell". Belief and action are two different things.

A) She strikes me as a very rigid, intolerant person--perhaps converted to the faith because of the struggles she faced in early life.
B) As the parent, she can do what she pleases, and I doubt you know the full story of the reason for the "dumping."

Those examples absolutely do fit the subject. You're suggesting that there aren't any fanatical Christians who brainwash their followers into committing crimes....I gave you the example of Charles Manson and David Koresh among others. David Koresh brainwashed an entire cult of followers into living his lifestyle and dying from his lifestyle. The only difference is, those followers didn't have any justifiable reason to follow Koresh the way that Osama followers have....the one truth that Osama has on his side is that vengeance against the U.S. government is indeed justifiable....the problem is, they don't seek it against the government, they seek it against innocents. Just like the U.S. government hasn't killed Osama, Zawahiri, the Taliban leaders or Saddam....they've killed thousands of innocents in their place.

I get out lots. The fact is, you don't know much about Islam. Murder and suicide are sins in Islam, just like they are in Christianity. So, the same way radical Christians convince followers to commit crimes against Christian teachings, radical Muslims convince followers to go against Islam.

Islam and Christianity are indeed one and the same with very minor discrepancies such as the two examples I gave. Instead of just saying they aren't, by all means feel free to provide examples in your counter opinion, the same way I did.

Again, stop laughing and provide me with some examples of differences between Christianity and Islam. I know you don't like accepting the fact that the two religions stem from the exact same gospels, but it's the truth. Another example of the differences is, Christians only have to be religious on Sundays and go to church to pray....Muslims are supposed to pray towards Mecca 3 times each day I believe. That's irrelevant though because the scriptures they follow are practically word for word the same as Christianity. Feel free to provide examples proving your version though.

Yes, pulling out examples of angry Muslims who have justifiable reasons to be angry at the West for killing their people is a hell of a way to judge the entire faith of Islam isn't it? How about the Muslims in Canada and the U.S.? Do you see them lopping people's heads off? I didn't think so.

If you want to be better than someone else, you're not really Christian are you? I mean, didn't Christ teach tolerance and how you should love everyone, not just those who are the same? Thanks for proving how intolerant they are.

Faith isn't believing that something is true and everything else is false....faith is trust in the unknown. In other words, you believe something without having to be blackmailed into believing it the way the Bible blackmails you. If you don't believe, you're going to Hell....if the gospel was really true, they wouldn't need to blackmail people to believe it.

Of course I don't know the full story....I mean, my example has to be wrong doesn't it? :rolleyes: Shame on me for actually providing examples to back up my position....I should be like you guys and just make a statement without any back-up. :rolleyes:

Originally posted by She-devil
Those examples absolutely do fit the subject.

Find new ones or get lost, those aren't applicable to this situation.

You're suggesting that there aren't any fanatical Christians who brainwash their followers into committing crimes

I am?

David Koresh brainwashed an entire cult of followers into living his lifestyle and dying from his lifestyle.

How is that an example of ' whack job, body-hacking Christian killed a family in the name of his god.'

those followers didn't have any justifiable reason to follow Koresh the way that Osama followers have....the one truth that Osama has on his side is that vengeance against the U.S. government is indeed justifiable....

So you're agreeing with violent retaliatory methods?
Something tells me if an extremist terrorist sect attacked the U.S., you'd object to taking up a campaign against them via the US military.

I get out lots.

Good for you!

The fact is, you don't know much about Islam.

This coming from a contributor to the "Know Nothing About Religions" magazine.

Murder and suicide are sins in Islam, just like they are in Christianity.

Really? No way, I never would have known. [/sarcasm]

Islam and Christianity are indeed one and the same with very minor discrepancies such as the two examples I gave.

"Minor discrepancies"?
"Such as"

Read the Qur'an and the Bible, visit a mosque and a church during services, then we can talk.

Instead of just saying they aren't, by all means feel free to provide examples in your counter opinion, the same way I did.

That would be a complete waste of time, nothing I can say to you will change, in any way, your narrowminded misconceptions; I know this because of how you have behaved in many, scratch that, every thread of serious discussion you've partaken of. You may call that last sentence a dodging tactic, I just call it stating the obvious.

I know you don't like accepting the fact that the two religions stem from the exact same gospels, but it's the truth.

I like how you use the term 'gospels', especially the 'exact same gospels'. LOL

Prae-where are you?

Another example of the differences is, Christians only have to be religious on Sundays and go to church to pray....Muslims are supposed to pray towards Mecca 3 times each day I believe.

- 5 prayers, aka Salat, one of the five pillars of Islam.
- Christians have to attend church on the Sabbath, but have to "be religious" at all times, lest they fall into sin.

That's irrelevant though because the scriptures they follow are practically word for word the same as Christianity.

"Practically"? Take the Gospel of John and flip around the suras. Then reassess that position.

Yes, pulling out examples of angry Muslims who have justifiable reasons to be angry at the West for killing their people is a hell of a way to judge the entire faith of Islam isn't it?

Who said I was judging their entire faith off of the actions of terrorist fundamentalists?
Also, who said they found their hatred and justification in the fact that they have died by our hand? You must be unfamiliar with the fact of why Bin-Laden and others loathe the West.

How about the Muslims in Canada and the U.S.? Do you see them lopping people's heads off? I didn't think so.

Do you see Christians in Canada and the U.S. doing that as well? I didn't think so.

If you want to be better than someone else, you're not really Christian are you? I mean, didn't Christ teach tolerance and how you should love everyone, not just those who are the same? Thanks for proving how intolerant they are.

You seem unfamiliar with the idea of sarcasm, as it was laced in that sentence.

Faith isn't believing that something is true and everything else is false....faith is trust in the unknown.

Faith in one mode of ideals that contradicts others requires one to reject the others.

if the gospel was really true, they wouldn't need to blackmail people to believe it.

Have you fallen victim of this "blackmailing"?

Of course I don't know the full story....I mean, my example has to be wrong doesn't it?

You don't know the woman and the boys reasons unless you've explicitly heard them in conversation with them. You've painted your neice as an inhumanly perfect catch for any young cad to hunt after, and the mother as a complete barbarous twit, I'd take that bias as means for skepticism.

Shame on me for actually providing examples to back up my position...

Anyone on these boards could sit around their soapbox and make stories like that to post as means for "backing up their position". Big deal.

Originally posted by She-devil
Faith isn't believing that something is true and everything else is false....faith is trust in the unknown. In other words, you believe something without having to be blackmailed into believing it the way the Bible blackmails you. If you don't believe, you're going to Hell....if the gospel was really true, they wouldn't need to blackmail people to believe it.
This is probably the only thing you've ever said that has any semblance of critical thought in it. Congratulations. I knew you were about due.
Originally posted by She-devil
Of course I don't know the full story....I mean, my example has to be wrong doesn't it? :rolleyes: Shame on me for actually providing examples to back up my position....I should be like you guys and just make a statement without any back-up. :rolleyes:
LOL.

I guess that really depends on your perception of truth, and what it requires to "back something up". Of which, you mix your supposedly irrefutable "facts" with half-truths, skewed reality, and personal opinions, thus rendering any response null and void because you've already convinced yourself of your perpetual rightness. It's actually rather disconcerting that people like you really exist. On that note, I don't think I've ever run across someone as obstinate, thickheaded, and self-righteous as you are. I mean, let’s get down to brass tacks here: you’re a consummate armchair quarterback and the poster child of what it is to be full of shit. Congratulations on "proving all of us wrong" once again, you fucking know-it-all.

Originally posted by She-devil


Original Question: "... I can't recall a single case where some whack job, body-hacking Christian killed a family in the name of his god."

Your Answer: Charles Manson, David Koresh, Timothy McVeigh, ....

I don't remember McVeigh invoking Christianity? Or Manson. Or Koresh killing anybody (But big, bad Reno showed him anyway)

Sheriff: Texas woman says God told her to kill sons
http://www.cnn.com/2003/LAW/05/12/slain.children/

Police arrested Schlosser in November 2004 after finding her baby Margaret, known as Maggie, dying in her crib, and Schlosser covered in blood, holding a knife and listening to a church hymn.
http://www.statesman.com/news/content/gen/ap/TX_Severed_Arms.html

A man neighbors described as quiet and devout opened fire Saturday on a group of men, women and children attending a weekly church service at a Brookfield hotel, killing eight people - including himself - and seriously wounding four others
http://www.religionnewsblog.com/10545/living-church-of-god


Theres a ton of these. And of course you'll reply...But they're crazy...And then I'll say ahh but if society accepted killing in teh name of god as normal then they would not be...

Being that this is a pretty stupid thread, let us invoke Godwin now. Hitler.

Originally posted by 500lbguerilla
Sheriff: Texas woman says God told her to kill sons
http://www.cnn.com/2003/LAW/05/12/slain.children/

How is she killing in the name of her God; according to this she killed her sons because she was ordered to by God. She is suffering from some sort of mental disorder most likely.

Police arrested Schlosser in November 2004 after finding her baby Margaret, known as Maggie, dying in her crib, and Schlosser covered in blood, holding a knife and listening to a church hymn.
http://www.statesman.com/news/content/gen/ap/TX_Severed_Arms.html

Again, as you predicted the rebuttal rests on the questionable sanity of the killer. But also this case fails to clearly identify that she killed her baby in the name of God.

A man neighbors described as quiet and devout opened fire Saturday on a group of men, women and children attending a weekly church service at a Brookfield hotel, killing eight people - including himself - and seriously wounding four others
http://www.religionnewsblog.com/10545/living-church-of-god

And again...

Theres a ton of these. And of course you'll reply...But they're crazy...

You are correct, sir.

And then I'll say ahh but if society accepted killing in teh name of god as normal then they would not be...

If society accepted bestiality as normal that wouldn't mean it isn't the result of some sort of problem inside the practitioners; same with your murder examples.
The examples we are looking for are more easily identifiable if they were done by a government, a mass of people, or a sane person acting out with the clear motivation being appealing to their deity. You can find that throughout history across the religious spectrums, but only in the Muslim realm do we find it at least common knowledge of the extremism that often gets too loud a voice, in the modern day.

Originally posted by Napsterbater
Being that this is a pretty stupid thread, let us invoke Godwin now. Hitler.

That's my job. :(

*runs away to find solace in some baked delights*

Mmmm...chocolate chip...err, stop reading.

Originally posted by Brooks
I don't remember McVeigh invoking Christianity? Or Manson. Or Koresh killing anybody (But big, bad Reno showed him anyway)

I don't believe that Manson did...if he was following any god, it was himself. He considered himself his own deity.
As for Koresh, if I remember rightly, the whole thing started when his followers opened fire on the ATF agents, killing 2 or 3 of them. He was another whacko, hardly a mainstream Christian, who basically considered himself his own god.

There's many killers in history who don't appear to be followers of ANY religion.

Originally posted by Brooks
I don't remember McVeigh invoking Christianity?

McVeigh had well known (to the FBI and ATF) ties to the Chriistian Identity movement. After the bombing, an ATF informant identified Timothy McVeigh as having stayed at Elohim city. Elohim City is a Chriistian Identity settlement of located on 400 acres at the edge of the Oklahoma-Arkansas border...it is a religious sect notorious for its racist and anti-Semitic tenets.

Originally posted by Brooks
Or Manson.

Charles Manson was reported to be a member of the "Process Church of the Final Judgement" a sect who believed that the three Great Gods are Jehovah, Lucifer, and Satan.......they are Dualists, who believe in the unity of Christ and Satan, that both are equally good and should be loved.

Originally posted by Brooks
Or Koresh killing anybody.

His insane cultish religious beliefs led directly to the deaths of 76 people , 21 of them children.

It was in all the papers.

*sits waiting quietly for dop to post story about muslim who drove car into crowd of infidels in N Carolina for Allah*

oh why bother, we all know cowards like dop and guerilla only pick on people they know whont strike back. They bend over and kiss the ass of the violent muslims. I have to beleive someone who can find a grand conspiracy in the smallest of things could see that 25 years of muslim terrorism isnt just some fluke. But, they see what they want to see and pick on things they are not afraid of.

Originally posted by Freethinker
McVeigh had well known (to the FBI and ATF) ties to the Chriistian Identity movement. After the bombing, an ATF informant identified Timothy McVeigh as having stayed at Elohim city. Elohim City is a Chriistian Identity settlement of located on 400 acres at the edge of the Oklahoma-Arkansas border...it is a religious sect notorious for its racist and anti-Semitic tenets.

how much mileage can you possibly get out of one christian terrorist from 15 years ago? We got muslims blowing up schools and sky scrapers and lopping off heads left and right for allah and you ignore it, but that damn Tim Mcveigh was a christian, lets never forget that!!!!!!





Originally posted by Freethinker
His insane cultish religious beliefs led directly to the deaths of 76 people , 21 of them children.

It was in all the papers.

I wasnt really on top of the news at that time, why exactly did the government baracade his property and burn his house down again? what did he do? I am not being an ass, I really want to know. And please leave the anti christian spin out of it, I jsut want to know the governments reason at that time.

Mc Veigh was executed just an hour or so from where we live.

Newspeople by the truckload gathered for this huge event. Hawkers sold t-shirts, etc.

According to several sources, he requested the last rites from a Catholic priest just before the injection.

His last words were not a prayer or to ask absolution of any kind, but rather the poem "I am the master of my fate, I am the captain of my soul."

According to witnesses, he appeared calm and unrepentant to the very end.

I wonder if the tookie williams crowds showed up at the execution

Originally posted by Travh20
[B







I wasnt really on top of the news at that time, why exactly did the government baracade his property and burn his house down again? what did he do? I am not being an ass, I really want to know. And please leave the anti christian spin out of it, I jsut want to know the governments reason at that time. [/B]

Trav, from wikepedia, and this article doesn't list sources:

Defectors from Koresh's group alleged that he practiced polygamy with underage brides, physically abused children, and stockpiled illegal weapons. Eventually, legal authorities investigated their charges.

On February 28, 1993, the Bureau of Alcohol, Tobacco and Firearms (ATF) raided Mount Carmel, resulting in the deaths of four agents and six Davidians. The subsequent 51-day siege ended on April 19 when the complex was completely consumed by fire killing seventy-six people, including Koresh.

The government put some of the survivors on trial. All were acquitted of conspiring to murder federal agents, but some were convicted of voluntary manslaughter. Skeptics continue to dispute official government inquiries that claim to definitively prove that the fire was set on the inside by Davidians



This guy was a freaking wierdo, IMO. He was found with a bullet in his brain, most likely self-inflicted. Anyone who calls him an innocent party is severely misinformed.

Originally posted by Travh20
how much mileage can you possibly get out of one christian terrorist from 15 years ago?

Not much.

I've made well over 3000 posts here, and this is the first time I have discussed his blowing up of the Murrah building....and even that was in response to another person talking about him.

Thank you though (and I mean that) , for correctly identifying him as a *Christian terrorist*.

That is a good name for it.

Originally posted by Travh20
We got muslims blowing up schools and sky scrapers and lopping off heads left and right for allah and you ignore it, ......

?!?!?!

Ignore it?!?!?

Far from "ignoring it", I have probably made two or three hundred posts discussing the occurence of Muslims chopping off heads and having blown up skyscrapers.

Originally posted by Travh20
I wasnt really on top of the news at that time, why exactly did the government baracade his property and burn his house down again?

The person or persons who set the blaze are still unknown. Many believe the Koresh group did it themselves.

As for *barricading the property*, the government had it on good authority that Koresh was screwing underage children. Frequently. With great relish.

Go figure. A religious nut case taking the youngest women for his sexual captives ....?!?!?

Geepers......I can't imagine where Koresh the religionist learned THAT bit of inhuman depravity.

~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~

Bible; Book of Numbers, chapter 31;

6And Moses sent them to the war, a thousand of every tribe, them and Phinehas the son of Eleazar the priest, to the war, with the holy instruments, and the trumpets to blow in his hand.

7And they warred against the Midianites, as the LORD commanded Moses; and they slew all the males.

9And the children of Israel took all the women of Midian captives, and their little ones, and took the spoil of all their cattle, and all their flocks, and all their goods.

10And they burnt all their cities wherein they dwelt, and all their goodly castles, with fire.

11And they took all the spoil, and all the prey, both of men and of beasts.

15And Moses said unto them, Have ye saved all the women alive?

17Now therefore kill every male among the little ones, and kill every woman that hath known man by lying with him.

18 But all the women children, that have not known a man by lying with him, keep alive for yourselves.

~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~

Garsh........ain't that Bible a bee-yooooo-tee-full book.........?!?!?!?!

Originally posted by Freethinker
McVeigh had well known (to the FBI and ATF) ties to the Chriistian Identity movement. After the bombing, an ATF informant identified Timothy McVeigh as having stayed at Elohim city. Elohim City is a Chriistian Identity settlement of located on 400 acres at the edge of the Oklahoma-Arkansas border...it is a religious sect notorious for its racist and anti-Semitic tenets.

Charles Manson was reported to be a member of the "Process Church of the Final Judgement" a sect who believed that the three Great Gods are Jehovah, Lucifer, and Satan.......they are Dualists, who believe in the unity of Christ and Satan, that both are equally good and should be loved.

His (Koresh) insane cultish religious beliefs led directly to the deaths of 76 people , 21 of them children.

It was in all the papers.
Yes, and all three are excellent examples of "Christians" looking to hack up bodies in the name of god. Hell, two of the three examples you cited aren't even a derivation of the Christian faith. It's like you're having a three-for-one sale on stupid with no refunds or exchanges.

When all is said and done, this is a pointless argument anyway. It's one that's rooted in trivial academics where the rabid liberals here seem to find comfort in making token observations like, "SEE, I TOLD YOU!!! Both sides do it!!!" You people can't possibly believe that there's even a remote comparison between the two when talking about the frequency and number of attacks that have occurred in recent years.

I think freethinker needs to go back to sunday school if he thinks moses was a christian

Originally posted by The Praetorian
Hell, two of the three examples you cited aren't even a derivation of the Christian faith.

Huh?!?!?!?!?

ROTFLOL. Talk about a *sale on stupidity*......

Which two?!?!?!

Originally posted by Freethinker
Ignore it?!?!?

Far from "ignoring it", I have probably made two or three hundred posts discussing the occurence of Muslims chopping off heads and having blown up skyscrapers.
Yes, and you've spent the majority of that time calling their actions understandable.

Oh, and this is off topic, but check it out anyway (I about pissed my pants laughing when I found it):

http://www.mcsweeneys.net/2003/04/22fellowship.html
Originally posted by Freethinker
Go figure. A religious nut case taking the youngest women for his sexual captives ....?!?!?

Geepers......I can't imagine where Koresh the religionist learned THAT bit of inhuman depravity.
Probably from the Koran. I mean, didn't the monstrous prophet Muhammad (blessings be upon him) take a nine year old for his wife???

That aside, I'm surprised you're not all for it. Aren't you a self-avowed hedonist who bows to no man's construct of right and wrong? I would've thought an artsy "freethinking" liberal like you would've been all about banging teenagers a' la Roman Polanski.

Originally posted by Travh20
I think freethinker needs to go back to sunday school if he thinks moses was a christian

I have checked back thru all my posts.

I cannot find anything remotely suggesting that I thought "Moses was a christian".

I guess in freethinkers world a cult that invokes christs name in any way is "christian". even one who says satan and christs are equal. How could a group claiming christ and satan are equals be catagorized as a christian group along with catholics and protestants and the like? talk about a sale on stupid.

Originally posted by Freethinker
I have checked back thru all my posts.

I cannot find anything remotely suggesting that I thought "Moses was a christian".


well, we were all talking about christians for the past 5 pages and you decided to throw in moses and the israelites as some sort of proof christians were evil, you tell me.

Originally posted by Freethinker
Which two?!?!?!
I would have thought that was obvious.

Koresh and Manson.

Now spare me the "okay, dumbass - the Branch Dravidians were a derivative of the Seventh-day Adventist Church, which, as you know, is Christian". It matters not. By that logic, anybody who takes a crazy stance within church confines could call themselves a Christian (which, consequently, David Koresh did not), provided that they started their so-called religion from a legitimate base.

You know what - that's even the point. I know there are religious nut jobs on both ends; I'm just trying to call attention to the gross disproportion in number between the ones who follow Christianity verses those who follow Islam. That's the only point I'm trying to make, and it isn't refutable.

Originally posted by The Praetorian
Yes, and you've spent the majority of that time calling their actions understandable.

Yep.

And they were.

But it is still incorrect to claim i have "ignored" the subject.

Originally posted by Freethinker
Go figure. A religious nut case taking the youngest women for his sexual captives ....?!?!?

Geepers......I can't imagine where Koresh the religionist learned THAT bit of inhuman depravity.

Originally posted by The Praetorian
Probably from the Koran. I mean, didn't the monstrous prophet Muhammad (blessings be upon him) take a nine year old for his wife???

Regardless of what Muhammad did, the person WE are discussing, David Koresh, took his insanity from the Bible.

I quoted the relevant passage.

Originally posted by The Praetorian
That aside, I'm surprised you're not all for it. Aren't you a self-avowed hedonist who bows to no man's construct of right and wrong?

It does not extend to Mr Koresh's religious-based practice of exerting his psychological dominance (which was, as is almost always the case with these overtly religious imbeciles, merely superstitious psychobabble) over 12 year olds and fucking them.

if it feels good do it, unless you got it from the bible, then its evil and should be stamped out.

Originally posted by Freethinker
Regardless of what Muhammad did, the person WE are discussing, David Koresh, took his insanity from the Bible.
LOL!

Okay, in one scenario, you have a lunatic who took a child into his bed using the "bible" as an excuse. The other scenario entails the prophet himself wedding and fucking a 9 year old, and yet, you seem to be okay with calling attention to some random asshole who broke the law, raped a child, and bastardized a religion.

Where's the disconnect here???
Originally posted by Freethinker
It (my hedonism) does not extend to Mr Koresh's religious-based practice of exerting his psychological dominance (which was, as is almost always the case with these overtly religious imbeciles, merely superstitious psychobabble) over 12 year olds and fucking them.
What's the problem...the "religious-based" part???

Koresh, Manson, the Reverend Jimmy Jones, all took mainstream Christianity and bastardized it to suit their own purpose. Basically they used and twisted their follower's simple faith into something that no thinking rational person would ever recognize.

If it hadn't been Christianity, it would have been something else. This was just something they happened upon, nothing else.
They were no more Christian than my dog, except my dog is better bred.

Originally posted by Evakian
So you're agreeing with violent retaliatory methods?
Something tells me if an extremist terrorist sect attacked the U.S., you'd object to taking up a campaign against them via the US military.

On the contrary; I don't believe in retaliation against innocents. Something tells me that you don't understand the fact that Muslims have a legitimate reason for retaliating against America. As I said though, they generally don't target the people who actually committed the crimes against them (U.S. government). If another country had meddled in American affairs, the way the U.S. government meddles in Middle Eastern affairs, you guys would be doing far worse than what a few Muslim extremists have done thus far.



This coming from a contributor to the "Know Nothing About Religions" magazine.

I've never claimed to be a theologian. However, I'm smart enough to know how stupid it is to suggest that Muslims are bad and Christians are good....that and you've yet to tell me how Islam and Christianity are so very different. Admit it, they're very similar!

Read the Qur'an and the Bible, visit a mosque and a church during services, then we can talk.

I've read enough of both and I have visited both a mosque and a church. What would you like to talk about?

That would be a complete waste of time, nothing I can say to you will change, in any way, your narrowminded misconceptions; I know this because of how you have behaved in many, scratch that, every thread of serious discussion you've partaken of. You may call that last sentence a dodging tactic, I just call it stating the obvious.

LMAO! I love how you guys claim that I'm the know-it-all! Hmmmm, didn't you say this to me, "Stop talking about things you've hardly any clue what you are talking about."? In saying that, aren't you asserting that you know what you're talking about and I don't? Yet, I'm the narrow minded person full of misconceptions.....lol!

I like how you use the term 'gospels', especially the 'exact same gospels'. LOL

Prae-where are you?

What do you like about it? You can't come up with major differences between Islam and Christianity that backs up the position of the Islam haters so you have to resort to correcting my English now? Too funny!

- 5 prayers, aka Salat, one of the five pillars of Islam.
- Christians have to attend church on the Sabbath, but have to "be religious" at all times, lest they fall into sin.

If Christians have to be religious at all times, then how come Catholics have confessionals? How come someone can commit murder but then become a born again Christian and all is forgiven? Care to explain that?

"Practically"? Take the Gospel of John and flip around the suras. Then reassess that position.

I'm not interested in any religion. All I know is that most of them are too similar to give any credibility to people who dismiss/ridicule the other religions so readily. Here's a good link for you though:

http://muslim-canada.org/islam_christianity.html

Who said I was judging their entire faith off of the actions of terrorist fundamentalists?
Also, who said they found their hatred and justification in the fact that they have died by our hand? You must be unfamiliar with the fact of why Bin-Laden and others loathe the West.

You seemed to be defending the people who suggested that Muslims are evil and Christians are tolerant. You know....those same people whom judge every Muslim based on the actions of a minority of extremists.

Do you see Christians in Canada and the U.S. doing that as well? I didn't think so.

Ummm, I was making the point that the difference in wealth and modernization of society is partly why some Muslims behave like barbaric neanderthals. Remember how I said that Christians in the same circumstances behaved the exact same way? The fact is, when all things are equal, such as education, wealth and technology....both Christians and Muslims behave equally. It was others who didn't believe that, not me.


Faith in one mode of ideals that contradicts others requires one to reject the others.

No it doesn't. I have lots of faith but I don't feel the need to reject other people's beliefs.

Have you fallen victim of this "blackmailing"?

No, I refuse to be blackmailed. That's why I'm agnostic.

You don't know the woman and the boys reasons unless you've explicitly heard them in conversation with them. You've painted your neice as an inhumanly perfect catch for any young cad to hunt after, and the mother as a complete barbarous twit, I'd take that bias as means for skepticism.

When did I describe the mother as a barbarous twit? She's a control freak who feels the need to force her religious beliefs on her children and punish them if they have the nerve to choose their own path. I've also heard her children talking about how they resent their parents.

Anyone on these boards could sit around their soapbox and make stories like that to post as means for "backing up their position". Big deal.

I wasn't referring to my personal example as proof! I was talking about how I gave examples of how Islam and Christianity are so similar! The other people simply state how awful Islam is and how wonderful Christianity is. :rolleyes:

Originally posted by rendova
Koresh, Manson, the Reverend Jimmy Jones, all took mainstream Christianity and bastardized it to suit their own purpose. Basically they used and twisted their follower's simple faith into something that no thinking rational person would ever recognize.

If it hadn't been Christianity, it would have been something else. This was just something they happened upon, nothing else.
They were no more Christian than my dog, except my dog is better bred.

That's the same thing that radical Muslims do to recruit followers. The Islam they utilize isn't mainstream Islam.

How is she killing in the name of her God; according to this she killed her sons because she was ordered to by God. way to contradict yourself Evak
And then I'll say ahh but if society accepted killing in teh name of god as normal then they would not be...

If society accepted bestiality as normal that wouldn't mean it isn't the result of some sort of problem inside the practitioners; same with your murder examples. The examples we are looking for are more easily identifiable if they were done by a government, a mass of people, or a sane person acting out with the clear motivation being appealing to their deity.
Again, way to contradict yourself.

Killing because God says so is the most direct example of "appealing to a diety" ever. And again you disregard what I say then go on to reinforce it.

People are a product of society. They are themselves but have also been shaped by their day to day interactions and encountres within said society.

Originally posted by She-devil
If another country had meddled in American affairs, the way the U.S. government meddles in Middle Eastern affairs, you guys would be doing far worse than what a few Muslim extremists have done thus far.
In other words, we're worse than the Muslim extremists who attacked us on 9-11. Priceless.
Originally posted by She-devil
I've never claimed to be a theologian.
Oh, color me surprised...

What, with your rapier wit and prodigious knowledge, I'm surprised you're not claiming to have a PhD in theology. I can only imagine what you wrote your thesis on...

"You see, this one time, I visited a CHURCH and a MOSQUE, so....."
Originally posted by She-devil
I've read enough of both (bible and koran) and I have visited both a mosque and a church. What would you like to talk about?
And here we go....WEEeeeeeeeeee -

You know, I've heard of having ample qualifications before, but with a resume' like that, who can argue??? That aside, thanks for being there to "talk about things".
Originally posted by She-devil
LMAO! I love how you guys claim that I'm the know-it-all! Hmmmm, didn't you say this to me, "Stop talking about things you've hardly any clue what you are talking about."? In saying that, aren't you asserting that you know what you're talking about and I don't? Yet, I'm the narrow minded person full of misconceptions.....lol!
You don't pick up on the subtle nuances of sarcasm very well, do you? And in answer to your question, no - I've never said that, for I'd never word a sentence that poorly.
Originally posted by She-devil
What do you like about it? You can't come up with major differences between Islam and Christianity that backs up the position of the Islam haters so you have to resort to correcting my English now? Too funny!
Yeah, well despite our endless confabbing over things you don't get, your English begs to be corrected. Deal with it.
Originally posted by She-devil
You seemed to be defending the people who suggested that Muslims are evil and Christians are tolerant.
Correction: it's more an issue of culture than it is anything else. The Muslim people (religion aside, however it's used as a regular excuse, nonetheless) are far more inclined to resorting to barbarism than your garden-variety westerner is. When was the last time you saw some dude in NYC lofting a Molotov cocktail at the Iranian embassy over a cartoon? Case in point.
Originally posted by She-devil
Ummm, I was making the point that the difference in wealth and modernization of society is partly why some Muslims behave like barbaric neanderthals. Remember how I said that Christians in the same circumstances behaved the exact same way? The fact is, when all things are equal, such as education, wealth and technology....both Christians and Muslims behave equally. It was others who didn't believe that, not me.
I'm not arguing - just pointing out the differences as they stand currently.

If another country had meddled in American affairs, the way the U.S. government meddles in Middle Eastern affairs, you guys would be doing far worse than what a few Muslim extremists have done thus far.

Originally posted by The Praetorian
In other words, we're worse than the Muslim extremists who attacked us on 9-11.


Well, in terms of numbers of people we've cause the deaths of.....absolutely.

This government, with its long history of imperialism and conquest, has brought about the deaths of more than a hundred times as many people as the extremists who attacked us on 9-11.

Originally posted by She-devil
On the contrary; I don't believe in retaliation against innocents.

Good for you.

Something tells me that you don't understand the fact that Muslims have a legitimate reason for retaliating against America.

No one has legitimate reason to kill innocents, note you say America, not the government, military, or corporate complex, thus including millions of those who live outside that jurisdiction.

I've never claimed to be a theologian. However, I'm smart enough to know how stupid it is to suggest that Muslims are bad and Christians are good....that and you've yet to tell me how Islam and Christianity are so very different.

A) I never suggested Muslims are bad and Christians are "good."
B) If you cannot find differences in the two faith's theologies, histories, and practices; I'm sorry, you need to give up.

I've read enough of both

"Enough"? What is "enough"?

and I have visited both a mosque and a church.

Good for you, provided this is true.

LMAO!

ROFL!

Hmmmm, didn't you say this to me, "Stop talking about things you've hardly any clue what you are talking about."?

Guilty as charged.

In saying that, aren't you asserting that you know what you're talking about and I don't?

Indee-diddly.

What do you like about it?

Let us make a deal, you sit down and comprehend the ideas of sarcasm and the stupidity of what you blare out at us, just for a few hours, then maybe you might not ask that question.

You can't come up with major differences between Islam and Christianity

Want a major difference? Muslims don't ascribe to the idea that Jesus of Nazareth was the God-incarnate.
Want another major difference? Christians don't believe Gabriel proctored and delivered the Qur'an to Mohammed.

Such major differences are common-knowledge, whoopdeedo.

that backs up the position of the Islam haters

When did I ever try to justify the ideology of those who despise Islam?

so you have to resort to correcting my English now?

I'm not correcting your English. I was mocking the statement "I know you don't like accepting the fact that the two religions stem from the exact same gospels"---first off, the use of the term "Gospels" is exclusive to the New Testament of the Christian Bible. Secondly, Islam is not based off the Gospels. Abrahamic faiths, all are based off of the tradition and history of Abraham, whose life is outlined in the Old Testament's Pentateuch, which isn't worded or written the same manner as the story in the Qur'an.

If Christians have to be religious at all times, then how come Catholics have confessionals?

Because people "sin", and cannot hold themselves to be "perfect" or "moral" at all times.

How come someone can commit murder but then become a born again Christian and all is forgiven? Care to explain that?

Forgiveness is an important trait as outlined by Christ and countless other prophetic religious leaders throughout history.

You seemed to be defending...

I wasn't and still am not, to clarify.

Ummm, I was making the point that the difference in wealth and modernization of society is partly why some Muslims behave like barbaric neanderthals.

It is also, arguably, in part because they are Muslims. Conservative religious beliefs and barbarous tradition practiced leads to people calling for the death of those who insult Mohammed.

Remember how I said that Christians in the same circumstances behaved the exact same way?

Humanity as a whole would likely behave in such a manner, it is our nature. (provided there are identical situations or very similar situations)

No it doesn't. I have lots of faith but I don't feel the need to reject other people's beliefs.

Reject as in 'disbelieve'. You can't hold agnostic beliefs and be an adherent of religious, spiritual institutions.

I wasn't referring to my personal example as proof! I was talking about how I gave examples of how Islam and Christianity are so similar! The other people simply state how awful Islam is and how wonderful Christianity is. :rolleyes:

All right then, case closed.

Originally posted by Freethinker
This government, with its long history of imperialism and conquest, has brought about the deaths of more than a hundred times as many people as the extremists who attacked us on 9-11.
Perhaps....(sans the "imperialism and conquest" remark)

But then again, in having to pit the ends against the middle (politically speaking), you run the unfortunate risk of dirtying your hands on a permanent basis. Now, correct me if I'm wrong, but I can only assume that you're intimating our government is directly responsible for those deaths.

If that is, indeed, the case, then I can't help but take issue with your assertion. Those people died by their own hands, because, in essence, it was politically and financially expedient for us to sit back and reap the benefits of them fighting. All we had to do was lend a hand to the side of our choice. Sure, we talked out of both sides of our mouth, and yes, it was slightly unethical, but that, in no way, makes us a world monster. We were serving our interests, and if that little philosophy doesn't fit into your idea of what a superpower should do, then crawl back underneath the rock from which you came, and find comfort in the fact that you didn't endorse it. I'll stay cozy topside in reality.

Originally posted by 500lbguerilla
way to contradict yourself Evak

Killing as ordered to by someone, and killing in their name are not one in the same. I could be ordered to slay my neighbor by someone, but if I did kill him that doesn't immediately and exclusively refer to the idea that I killed in that person's name, or found defense for my action by their influence.

Killing because God says so is the most direct example of "appealing to a diety" ever.

Thanks, I wouldn't have ever known that!

And again you disregard what I say then go on to reinforce it.

:flybyt:

Originally posted by The Praetorian
In other words, we're worse than the Muslim extremists who attacked us on 9-11. Priceless.

Oh, color me surprised...

What, with your rapier wit and prodigious knowledge, I'm surprised you're not claiming to have a PhD in theology. I can only imagine what you wrote your thesis on...

"You see, this one time, I visited a CHURCH and a MOSQUE, so....."

And here we go....WEEeeeeeeeeee -

You know, I've heard of having ample qualifications before, but with a resume' like that, who can argue??? That aside, thanks for being there to "talk about things".

You don't pick up on the subtle nuances of sarcasm very well, do you? And in answer to your question, no - I've never said that, for I'd never word a sentence that poorly.

Yeah, well despite our endless confabbing over things you don't get, your English begs to be corrected. Deal with it.

Correction: it's more an issue of culture than it is anything else. The Muslim people (religion aside, however it's used as a regular excuse, nonetheless) are far more inclined to resorting to barbarism than your garden-variety westerner is. When was the last time you saw some dude in NYC lofting a Molotov cocktail at the Iranian embassy over a cartoon? Case in point.

I'm not arguing - just pointing out the differences as they stand currently.

First of all....why the hell are you yapping at me like I was responding to you in that post? I had no idea that you and Evakian were the same person.

Now...as 500lb already said, the U.S. government instigates or retaliates in a larger degree of death and destruction than any Muslim has done thus far. Japan killed a couple thousand in Pearl Harbor and the U.S. kills a couple hundred thousand Japanese. the 9/11 hijackers killed about 3000 Americans on 9/11 and the U.S. responds by killing a couple hundred thousand Iraqis and Afghans....although, not one Iraqi killed any Americans prior to your retaliation against Iraq. The U.S. attempts to assassinate dozens of world leaders on regular occasions....killed thousands of Central Americans, etc.

Duh! Evakian told me to visit a church and a mosque and then he'd talk to me.....so I responded to him, saying how I already had. I wasn't claiming to be an expert based on the fact that I had been to church and a mosque before. :rolleyes: For someone who moonlights as an English policeman, you sure as hell do have a difficult time comprehending English.

How does one pick up sarcasm over the internet unless the person posts a winking smiley? :rolleyes:

I'm so sorry Prae...I didn't know that I needed to post proper English in a forum. I type very fast so I don't attempt to post proper grammar. It's priceless though...watching you worry about my English in an attempt to conceal the fact that you never make a credible rebuttal to anything I say.

By the way, Muslims are westerners as well. Do you see them resorting to barbarism? No, didn't think so. Besides, why would a westerner need to use a Molotov cocktail when they prefer to use high powered weapons to shoot their fellow students or postal workers?

Originally posted by Evakian
No one has legitimate reason to kill innocents, note you say America, not the government, military, or corporate complex, thus including millions of those who live outside that jurisdiction.

I'm sorry...I had already specified the U.S. government in several posts already. I didn't know that I had to specify it each and every time.

A) I never suggested Muslims are bad and Christians are "good."
B) If you cannot find differences in the two faith's theologies, histories, and practices; I'm sorry, you need to give up.

As I said, you lashed out at me for my original post in an attempt to defend the people I was speaking to....which led me to believe that you felt the same way they did.

Ummm, I already mentioned a few differences....the problem is, the differences are as subtle as the differences between Christian denominations. There are no huge differences that give people the right to dismiss Muslims as bad and Christians as good. The mere fact that both Islam and Christianity mention the same people in their doctrines, is proof that they're based on the exact same teachings.

"Enough"? What is "enough"?

I've read enough of the Bible and other religious doctrines to realize that they're all very hypocritical and that to choose just one religion actually goes against the teachings of those doctrines.


Let us make a deal, you sit down and comprehend the ideas of sarcasm and the stupidity of what you blare out at us, just for a few hours, then maybe you might not ask that question.

I respond to what I receive. If you don't like that, then give me the respect you wish to receive from me.

Want a major difference? Muslims don't ascribe to the idea that Jesus of Nazareth was the God-incarnate.
Want another major difference? Christians don't believe Gabriel proctored and delivered the Qur'an to Mohammed.

Such major differences are common-knowledge, whoopdeedo.

Yes, I do believe that I was the first one in this thread who said that Muslims don't believe that Jesus was the son of God...that they believe he was merely a prophet like Muhammad. That's actually not a major difference....it's as subtle as the fact that some Christian faiths believe in reincarnation and others don't. Besides, who truly believes that God impregnated Mary or that Joseph would have been that gracious and understanding back in that era? I think the Islamic viewpoint is far more plausible.

I'm not correcting your English. I was mocking the statement "I know you don't like accepting the fact that the two religions stem from the exact same gospels"---first off, the use of the term "Gospels" is exclusive to the New Testament of the Christian Bible. Secondly, Islam is not based off the Gospels. Abrahamic faiths, all are based off of the tradition and history of Abraham, whose life is outlined in the Old Testament's Pentateuch, which isn't worded or written the same manner as the story in the Qur'an.

The word gospel is also a synonym for the word "truth". Islam and Christianity share many of the same "truths"....at least what each religion accepts as the truth. Did you read that link I provided you with? Islam and Christianity come from the same texts....however Islam doesn't accept the later versions of Christian teachings....they feel that their gospels got corrupted along the way. In fact, many theologians agree with that. Who cares that they're worded differently? Translate the two and they have the same meanings.

Because people "sin", and cannot hold themselves to be "perfect" or "moral" at all times.

What's the point of being religious if you can't follow your beliefs at all times?

Forgiveness is an important trait as outlined by Christ and countless other prophetic religious leaders throughout history.

It's a shame that forgiveness isn't practiced in any religion.

It is also, arguably, in part because they are Muslims. Conservative religious beliefs and barbarous tradition practiced leads to people calling for the death of those who insult Mohammed.


It's not because they're Muslims. Are you denying that many Christians have called for the death of those who don't follow Christianity? Put Christians in poverty and away from our version of civilization and they resort to the same archaic tactics.

Reject as in 'disbelieve'. You can't hold agnostic beliefs and be an adherent of religious, spiritual institutions.

Of course I'm not adherent to religious or spiritual institutions. That doesn't stop me from being every bit as good as any religious person is or from having faith though.

Originally posted by She-devil
First of all....why the hell are you yapping at me like I was responding to you in that post? I had no idea that you and Evakian were the same person.
It's an open forum, shithead - get used to it.
Originally posted by She-devil
Duh! Evakian told me to visit a church and a mosque and then he'd talk to me.....so I responded to him, saying how I already had. I wasn't claiming to be an expert based on the fact that I had been to church and a mosque before. :rolleyes:
Oh, so you were just placating him then? For if you truly felt this way, then why did you skirt the issue instead of having questioned his qualifications for understanding the two religions based on the bone-headed premise that going to church makes you an authority on the subject? All this, especially, when you take into consideration the "what would you like to talk about" remark that soon followed his request. That aside, my humor obviously stemmed from the fact that visiting a house of "God" has absolutely NOTHING to do with understanding religion. In referencing your comment above, I see you feel the same way, and on that note, I hope you realize your initial response didn't clarify that position in the slightest. Hence, I hope you understand why the confusion arose. You've subsequently responded by saying that both religions are chalked full of hypocrisy. I happen to agree with you in regards to Christianity, but in the grand scheme of things, it doesn't matter; I'm not an authority. To put it simply, how does one go about assessing their all-encompassing understanding of a foreign religion before they're able to dismiss it as being "hypocritical"? This is exactly the kind of pompous arrogance I've been talking about. It's the raw quantity of your rank opinion passed off as being quasi-knowledgeable that makes me wish someone would feed you to a fucking woodchipper, you pontificating, self-aggrandizing windbag.
Originally posted by She-devil
How does one pick up sarcasm over the internet unless the person posts a winking smiley? :rolleyes:
Not everybody needs a "smiley" to be clued into someone else's sarcasm. For future edification, I'll be sure to use one when communicating with you from now on. ;)
Originally posted by She-devil
By the way, Muslims are westerners as well. Do you see them resorting to barbarism? No, didn't think so. Besides, why would a westerner need to use a Molotov cocktail when they prefer to use high powered weapons to shoot their fellow students or postal workers?
That's hardly the point, you twit. The comparison here is intellectually dishonest, and you know it.

Originally posted by The Praetorian
It's an open forum, shithead - get used to it.

Ohhhh, not a shithead! :rolleyes: Although, I suppose it's irrelevant that you said this: "And in answer to your question, no - I've never said that, for I'd never word a sentence that poorly." I never asked you if you said that. I asked Evakian. By the way, it was Evakian's sentence that you were insulting.

Oh, so you were just placating him then? For if you truly felt this way, then why did you skirt the issue instead of having questioned his qualifications for understanding the two religions based on the bone-headed premise that going to church makes you an authority on the subject of understanding said religion? Especially, when you take into consideration the "what would you like to talk about" remark that soon followed his request. That aside, my humor obviously stemmed from the fact that visiting a house of "God" has absolutely NOTHING to do with understanding religion. In referencing your comment above, I see you feel the same way, and on that note, I hope you realize your initial response didn't clarify that position in the slightest. Hence, I hope you understand why the confusion arose. You've subsequently responded by saying that both religions are chalked full of hypocrisy. I happen to agree with you in regards to Christianity, but in the grand scheme of things, it doesn't matter; I'm not an authority. To put it simply, how does one go about assessing their all-encompassing understanding of a foreign religion before they're able to dismiss it as being "hypocritical"? This is exactly the kind of pompous arrogance I've been talking about. It's the raw quantity of your rank opinion passed off as being quasi-knowledgeable that makes me wish someone would feed you to a fucking woodchipper, you pontificating, self-aggrandizing windbag.

Ummm, please find exactly where I said that going to church and a mosque made me an expert on the subject. I bet you can't. In fact, it was Evakian who implied that I should visit a church, a mosque and read....then I'd be an expert on the subject and he'd talk to me. So again, you're insulting Evakian! :rolleyes:

Why exactly is Islam a "foreign religion" as you say? There are plenty of Muslims in North America. I happen to know several and I do find it interesting, discussing their religion with them. It's how one gains knowledge and has at least an ounce of credibility when discussing Islam.

Not everybody needs a "smiley" to be clued into someone else's sarcasm. For future edification, I'll be sure to use one when communicating with you from now on. ;)

Thank you. A smiley is essential over the internet. I can't pick up the subtle nuances in your voice if I can't hear it. Spare me though...I don't want to hear it.

That's hardly the point, you twit. The comparison here is intellectually dishonest, and you know it.

Oh no! Now I'm a twit. Oh gosh, whatever will I do? How exactly is the comparison intellectually dishonest? Clarity is a wonderful thing.

Originally posted by She-devil
It was Evakian who implied that I should visit a church, a mosque and read....then I'd be an expert on the subject and he'd talk to me. So again, you're insulting Evakian! :rolleyes:
If you honestly think his appeal for you to visit both institutions would qualify you (in his mind, no less :@@: ) for "expert" status on the subject, then you're a bigger idiot than I originally thought. He would never intimate something so preposterous, but why am I not surprised you took it that way?

Simply put, we ran into problems when you took his plea to "visit a church and a mosque" as a literal request. All he was trying to say is that if you can't find a discernable difference between the two religions, then you're about due for an education. I understand the two religions are similar at their base, but that's of no consequence. What I find funny is because you've discussed the Islamic religion "with several friends" and have "been to a mosque" before, you think you're qualified to wax theologically, like in some way, your insight is more poignant than any other retard's. In short, that's the arrogance I was talking about. I mean, when all is said and done, your haughty attitude is a real knee-slapper, you cocky bitch. JMHO.
Originally posted by She-devil
There are plenty of Muslims in North America. I happen to know several and I do find it interesting, discussing their religion with them.
Yeah, well did they find it "enlightening" when you told them how hypocritical their religion is? Let me guess...you had a regular church-bashing roundtable session with these devout Muslims, didn't you? They told you "first hand" how stupid their religious doctrine is, and along with it, the people who swallow it whole, didn't they? Amidst the vast education you received from these knowledgeable souls, I can only imagine how stupid a person would have to be to question a dilettante of your intellect and persistence.
Originally posted by She-devil
Thank you. A smiley is essential over the internet. I can't pick up the subtle nuances in your voice if I can't hear it. Spare me though...I don't want to hear it.
Oh, boy...ROTF. Did you not pick up on the fact that I left a "winking smiley" after I made that comment? In other words, I was being sarcastic when I said I'd oblige you with smilies.
Originally posted by She-devil
How exactly is the comparison intellectually dishonest? Clarity is a wonderful thing.
Lone lunatics in the west who pick off people from clock towers with high-powered rifles are few and far between, whereas in the M.E., you have certain Muslims who blow themselves up on a daily basis. I've decidedly left economics out of the equation because 2006 will always be 2006. IOW, it is what it is, no matter how many excuses you want to give them. Deal with it.

Excellent debating, you two... :)

Originally posted by She-devil
Ummm, I already mentioned a few differences....the problem is, the differences are as subtle as the differences between Christian denominations.

...You are aware that these supposed "subtle" differences include the ideals of saints, "The Rapture", the idea of Transubstantiation, females in the clergy, marriage in the clergy, acceptance of sexual deviations (homosexuality, polygamy, masturbation, etc), the interpretation of the Bible, and also the books that are included in that denomination's Bible, and more, are you not? All of which wouldn't exactly fall under the hood of "subtle" differences.

With Islam you've got a different text than the Christian Bible, played out with a different outlook. Mohammed takes the highest importance among the prophets, the prayers and stories change greatly, the history of the two as well as the clergy and its relation to the people make a huge difference, and on and on.

There are no huge differences that give people the right to dismiss Muslims as bad and Christians as good.

True.

I've read enough of the Bible and other religious doctrines to realize that they're all very hypocritical and that to choose just one religion actually goes against the teachings of those doctrines.

Again, how much is this ambiguous amount of "enough"?

I respond to what I receive. If you don't like that, then give me the respect you wish to receive from me.

Done deal, and apologies if I've come across as harsh previously-not done with malice aforethought. Prae however...:D

Yes, I do believe that I was the first one in this thread who said that Muslims don't believe that Jesus was the son of God...that they believe he was merely a prophet like Muhammad. That's actually not a major difference....

That is a huge difference. The entirety of all Christian doctrine rests on the faith that Jesus was, in fact, the god-incarnate and died for the sins of humanity; it is the simplest, most affecting part of the entire religion.

Besides, who truly believes that God impregnated Mary or that Joseph would have been that gracious and understanding back in that era?

Christians do, besides, had the story been written in another way things begin to lose balance, storytelling dramatics.

The word gospel is also a synonym for the word "truth".

For the sake of pedantic attention to details, it is derived from the Greek term meaning "Good news."

Who cares that they're worded differently? Translate the two and they have the same meanings.

You can translate all you want to whatever language and it will be hard to change Jesus to a deity in the Qur'an.

What's the point of being religious if you can't follow your beliefs at all times?

Humans are weak, they strive for things they cannot have.

It's a shame that forgiveness isn't practiced in any religion.

Actually, reconciliation is a rather big thing in Catholic and other Christian sects faith. Ever hear of a "confessional booth"?

It's not because they're Muslims.

You don't think that if they were all liberalized, modernized Christians that their history would have faired better for the entire region while a Muslim Europe faced all its trials?

Are you denying that many Christians have called for the death of those who don't follow Christianity?

When, please show me the exact words, that show that I denied that.

In fact, it was Evakian who implied that I should visit a church, a mosque and read....then I'd be an expert on the subject and he'd talk to me.

How did I imply that would make you an expert?

Of course I'm not adherent to religious or spiritual institutions. That doesn't stop me from being every bit as good as any religious person is or from having faith though.

No disagreements here, you seem like a friendly young woman.

Originally posted by Evakian
No disagreements here, you seem like a friendly young woman.
She's neither friendly or "young".

Originally posted by The Praetorian
She's neither friendly or "young".

It'd probably take a real life encounter to truly determine that, but if we went off what you two said here we've got Bonnie and Clyde circa 2006.

Correction: Bonnie and Clyde were a team. If I met her in person, I'd probably bury her alive. Oh, and dude, she's 33 - that's not young...

At that age, her boobs probably look like shit, and she's pain in the ass. Hence, not friendly, and NOT young.

Originally posted by The Praetorian
Correction: Bonnie and Clyde were a team. If I met her in person, I'd probably bury her alive. Oh, and dude, she's 33 - that's not young...

Ahh, this is news to me. In any case, trying to bury her alive would probably result in you getting your johnson gnawed off and your toes torn out of their sockets. Play it safe, don't go to Canada.

Probably very true...

At that age, her boobs probably look like shit, and she's pain in the ass. Hence, not friendly, and NOT young.

Such terrible taste in women, Prae. I get the feeling that's why you objectify them so much, you just can't pick the good ones out. End up picking the stupid ones, and get burned again and again.

Originally posted by Napsterbater
Such terrible taste in women, Prae.
Why? Have you seen her boobs??? Am I missing something? :D
Originally posted by Napsterbater
End up picking the stupid ones, and get burned again and again.
As much as I hate to admit it, you're right.