The general word of the European news is that the Palestinians have voted in Hamas because of severe corruption within the Arafat/Fatah organisation. The only conclusion I can make of that (although no one’s come out and said it) is that the Palestinians may not be so interested in the destruction of Israel but rather they are fed up with corruption - so they are in essence voting Fatah out rather than voting Hamas in.

How is the American news playing it?

Both scenarios are presented in our news and it is up to us to think what we like. I chose to believe they voted in Hamas to destroy Israel because the PA was always corrupt and that was not a problem until they made a peace deal with the devil.

Suicide bombers are made heros for all palestinians, the schools teach hate against all Jews. People who are willing to commit suicide to kill one Jew are not people who care about Jews having a homeland where the Muslims can't get to them.

For myself, I think the Jews are much better off without the roadmap to peace as the roadmap to peace is the roadmap to the end of Israel.

If Israel moved back to 67 borders and allowed millions of Muslim terrorist into their tiny borders it would be good bye Israel.

Originally posted by old-reb

If Israel moved back to 67 borders and allowed millions of Muslim terrorist into their tiny borders it would be good bye Israel.

If Israel moved back to 67 borders and allowed millions of Muslim's whose land they appropriated to return to their homes it would be........justice.

Originally posted by Freethinker
If Israel moved back to 67 borders and allowed millions of Muslim's whose land they appropriated to return to their homes it would be........justice.

Empty words that Isamic and Nazis to blame the Jews for Islam trying to exterminate them.
Just repeat the lie over and over with out any reason and lie comes to be believed as truth.

The Jews came to the middle east as civilians but Muslims civilians started killing them so they picked up weapons to protect themselves or have another holocaust.
Depending on others for protection hasn't worked out too well for the Jews.

When Israel was started the UN gave them a little piece of land but the Muslims wanted them to have no land and no peace. Muslims were ordered out of Israeli territory or be killed as Jews so they left. So the surrounding countries attacked little Israel and most people gave Israel no chance to survive, but with their back to the wall they fought like tigers to live another day. The Israelis suffered huge losses but when faced with dhimmitude or death they fought to the death.

The worst thing is that the Muslims tell the lie that it is the Jews that want to kill the Muslim and the empty headed Liberals of the world believe them.

You guys are all wrong. First off, Jews went to Palestine for hiding. WHile this was happening, Palestine and other Arab Countries were ruled by the Ottoman Empire. The British and French had told the Arabs living under the Ottoman Empire to rebel and by doing this they will gain freedom and independence. However, when the Arabs did rebel, the British and French took over and had made them colonies. So now we have, Jews living in what was suppose to be Arab land being controlled by the British and French. After sympathy from the Holocaust, they gave the land to the Jews and Arabs in Palestine where left with nothing.

And old-rep you are truly an ignorant man. I had lived in Palestine for a year and we were never taught about Israel Destruction. I want to ask you something. Why do you talk about a subject you know nothing about? It only makes you look stupid. It truly does.

Googs,

I was wondering when we'd get a palestinian or an apoligist for palestinians here on these boards.

I'm not too familiar with primary source documents about whether or not Palestinians do get taught to Jews from the cradle. But I've seen news stories from worldnetdaily.com and a documentary about the Palestinians and both sources agree that the Palestinians do HATE the jews and there is active recruitment both to join Hamas and to become "martyrs" (read suicide bombers).

So, I don't think old-reb is neither stupid or ignorant, dammit.


Catch 3, I agree with you, but I'll add that the Palestinians have tossed out one corrupt terrorist organization and voted in another corrupt terrorist organization. Though I can say that at least Hamas has been honest about their goals. However, the plight of the Palestinians isn't going to improve, misery breeds terrorists the way stagnant water breeds mosquitos, dammit.

Originally posted by old-reb
Just repeat the lie over and over with out any reason and lie comes to be believed as truth.

Strong words reb.


The Jews came to the middle east as civilians but Muslims civilians started killing them so they picked up weapons to protect themselves or have another holocaust.

This is an extremely innaccurate description of the events that led to the creation of the state of Israel. Reb, when these "civilians" came to palestine to live, do you think the land was empty, or do you believe that there were people already living there?

Palestine was given to the Jews by people who didn't own the land (the British), and then they washed their hands of the whole mess and left.


When Israel was started the UN gave them a little piece of land but the Muslims wanted them to have no land and no peace.

Where do you read this stuff?


Muslims were ordered out of Israeli territory or be killed as Jews so they left.

In some cases they were just killed.


So the surrounding countries attacked little Israel and most people gave Israel no chance to survive, but with their back to the wall they fought like tigers to live another day. The Israelis suffered huge losses but when faced with dhimmitude or death they fought to the death.

Point being?


The worst thing is that the Muslims tell the lie that it is the Jews that want to kill the Muslim and the empty headed Liberals of the world believe them.

It's no more of a lie than "muslims are terrorists". There are extremists on both sides that simply want to kill the other. Muslims hold no monopoly on terrorism.

Originally posted by Darth Be'lal
Googs,

I was wondering when we'd get a palestinian or an apoligist for palestinians here on these boards.

As was I. Welcome to allforums googs.


I'm not too familiar with primary source documents about whether or not Palestinians do get taught to Jews from the cradle.

Like what kind of documents would show that?


But I've seen news stories from worldnetdaily.com and a documentary about the Palestinians and both sources agree that the Palestinians do HATE the jews and there is active recruitment both to join Hamas and to become "martyrs" (read suicide bombers).

Of course WND and a "documentary" are both more reliable than say...someone who went to school there...:rolleyes:

Originally posted by googs
You guys are all wrong. First off, Jews went to Palestine for hiding. WHile this was happening, Palestine and other Arab Countries were ruled by the Ottoman Empire. The British and French had told the Arabs living under the Ottoman Empire to rebel and by doing this they will gain freedom and independence. However, when the Arabs did rebel, the British and French took over and had made them colonies. So now we have, Jews living in what was suppose to be Arab land being controlled by the British and French. After sympathy from the Holocaust, they gave the land to the Jews and Arabs in Palestine where left with nothing.

And old-rep you are truly an ignorant man. I had lived in Palestine for a year and we were never taught about Israel Destruction. I want to ask you something. Why do you talk about a subject you know nothing about? It only makes you look stupid. It truly does.

Hello googs were you talking to me or the face in the mirror? Hmm, I think the face in your mirror.

I have tons of info on Palestines teaching hate but it will suffice to post an interview with former terrorist.
You need broad band for this 17 min news clip.
http://tinyurl.com/dl2dm

You mention that land was given the jews because of the holocaust. That explains why Muslims are so keen to deny the holocaust eventho it was an European thing. You guys are good at denying the truth when it suits your needs.

You say you were never taught to hate Israel then why is it that the majority of Palestines voted for Hamas who offers no quarter for jews well, maybe drawn and quartered and that has happened to many jews who wandered into Palestine. Once again you deny the obvious.

Why is it so important that no Jews return to the middle east? Why is it so important that Serbs don't live in Muslim controlled areas of Kosovo but muslims are free to live anyplace in the FREE world. In Saudia Arabia the bible is a criminal offense. Yours is an aggressive religion.

If you want a better image then try acting civilized instead of controlling the press.

Welcome here goog.

:)

Originally posted by old-reb
You mention that land was given the jews because of the holocaust.

Why do you never mention who owned the land that was given away?


You guys are good at denying the truth when it suits your needs.

Reb, I like your posts for the most part, but when you make blanket statements about a people, calling them "you guys', it doesn't impress.


You say you were never taught to hate Israel then why is it that the majority of Palestines voted for Hamas who offers no quarter for jews well, maybe drawn and quartered and that has happened to many jews who wandered into Palestine. Once again you deny the obvious.

Sometimes the correct answer isn't the obvious one, and I think this is probably a little more complex than "they all hate Jews', or "they're evil".

Thanks for the comments, vilepagen.

Here is an easy to read history of Israel with maps. Well done but by the Israelis themselves.

http://www.masada2000.org/historical.html

Gee Vile,

I knew you'd show up sooner or later.


Like what kind of documents would show that?

Such as actual text material stating that Jews are evil, bad, racist, eat babies, out to take over the world, or all of the above, or maybe catch a few Al Jazeera broadcasts stating that Jews are evil, bad, racist, eat babies and are out to take over the world. Why are you pretending that such things are not printed by organizations like Hamas and the Arafat types?


Of course WND and a "documentary" are both more reliable than say...someone who went to school there...

And of course, any source I come up with will be immediatly poo-pooed by you, dammit. The documentary I referred to, was done by a reporter who did knock about the Palestinian territories, met some of the Hamas bunch, some kids who aired their views on the Israelis, oh and he was shot trying to get into Israel by an Israeli soldiers.

I'll agree it's not definitive proof that all palestinians are evil, but on the other hand, it ain't the British, French, Germans, Christians, Buddists, Toaist, Communists, Australians who are out blowing themselves up on busses or in markets and it ain't the British, French, Germans, Christians, Buddists, Toaist, Communists, Australians who are stirring up the kind of hatred that can motivate someone to become a suicide bomber. Stop pretending that hatred of the Israelis isnt something taught to Palestinian children, dammit.

Originally posted by Darth Be'lal
Gee Vile,

I knew you'd show up sooner or later.

Show up? I live here Darth. :D


Such as actual text material stating that Jews are evil, bad, racist, eat babies, out to take over the world, or all of the above, or maybe catch a few Al Jazeera broadcasts stating that Jews are evil, bad, racist, eat babies and are out to take over the world. Why are you pretending that such things are not printed by organizations like Hamas and the Arafat types?

I pretend no such thing Darth.


And of course, any source I come up with will be immediatly poo-pooed by you, dammit.

That's unfair Darth. I will say that WND sucks. I'm not really sure why you think it would be a good source, considering their strong Christian leanings.


The documentary I referred to, was done by a reporter who did knock about the Palestinian territories, met some of the Hamas bunch, some kids who aired their views on the Israelis, oh and he was shot trying to get into Israel by an Israeli soldiers.

It's still a "snapshot" of life in Palestine, compared with living there, even briefly.


Stop pretending that hatred of the Israelis isnt something taught to Palestinian children, dammit.

Stop putting words in my mouth.

I'm not pretending here Darth, you are. You are the one making gross generalizations in order to justify your political stance. You say "the Palestinians do HATE the jews ". I say, some extremists on both sides HATE each other, the rest of the people on both sides are merely caught in the crossfire.

Originally posted by Freethinker
If Israel moved back to 67 borders and allowed millions of Muslim's whose land they appropriated to return to their homes it would be........justice.

Well - the arabs should have thought twice before starting the 1967 war where Israel kicked their asses and took their land.

The situation in Palestine demonstrates a larger problem. It has always been the policy of the US to promote democracy throughout the world. However, we now see that a democratically elected government might not be friendly towards us and our interests. If a "wave of democracy" should spread through the Middle East, as the US is hoping, we may be confronted with this issue many more times in the future. The question is, should we stick to our ideals and continue to encourage democracy in the Middle East and elsewhere? Or should we simply engage in whatever policy benefits us the most?

Democracy in the middle east will eventually pay dividends but not for 20 - 30 years min.

A first good step for those folks would be a shave & a haircut.

Originally posted by old-reb
Empty words that Isamic and Nazis to blame the Jews for Islam trying to exterminate them.
Just repeat the lie over and over with out any reason and lie comes to be believed as truth.

The Jews came to the middle east as civilians but Muslims civilians started killing them so they picked up weapons to protect themselves or have another holocaust.

When Israel was started the UN gave them a little piece of land but the Muslims wanted them to have no land and no peace.

The worst thing is that the Muslims tell the lie that it is the Jews that want to kill the Muslim and the empty headed Liberals of the world believe them.
Good work, Reb! That's the way it is alright. I agree with you all the way to the iota.

However, I do believe it's the "other" Arab nations who are to blame for the initial mess. The Palestinians got caught in the middle with nowhere to turn. But then came Arafat and outdid all the other Arab nations by creating his own brand of treachery. Eventually, break-away factions even made Arafat look like a volunteer day-care centre worker.

Originally posted by old-reb
Depending on others for protection hasn't worked out too well for the Jews.
Ain’t that the truth!

Originally posted by Darth Be'lal
... Though I can say that at least Hamas has been honest about their goals.
That's a unique but healthy way to look at it, Darth. There may be something worth clingling to on that point.

Anyway, if Hamas continues with the "all Jews into the sea" crap, they will lose some of the support that the former government had enjoyed from outside sources. The thought of it will force Hamas to rethink its' policy. No support - no end to the instability PLUS an open declaration of war will leave the full force of Israel to deal with the problem "no holes barred".

Israel has had its' hands loosely tied until now. If Hamas is in (and it continues with the same old crap) then Israel will have far less critisim if she decides to "lock n' load" the big guns.

Originally posted by Jester
" ..... It has always been the policy of the US to promote democracy throughout the world..... If a "wave of democracy" should spread through the Middle East, as the US is hoping ...
Sorry Jester, but this is terribly naïve and untrue. The U.S. thrives on instability throughout the world. It is the very American modus operandi of world intervention which keeps the U.S. in its’ superior position.

The majority of Palestinians voted for Hamas because the government before it, Fatah, was corrupt. And when a corrupt government is backed by America and Israel, you are going to achieve a result that will backfire against American and Israel and the result being a victory for Hamas.

Originally posted by googs
The majority of Palestinians voted for Hamas because the government before it, Fatah, was corrupt. And when a corrupt government is backed by America and Israel, you are going to achieve a result that will backfire against American and Israel and the result being a victory for Hamas.
That is probably the most realistic response so far.

Originally posted by googs
The majority of Palestinians voted for Hamas because the government before it, Fatah, was corrupt. And when a corrupt government is backed by America and Israel, you are going to achieve a result that will backfire against American and Israel and the result being a victory for Hamas.

The PA was always corrupt but that was never a problem until they made a deal with big satan and little satan for peace.

The PA was always corrupt but that was never a problem until they made a deal with big satan and little satan for peace. :@@: :@@: :@@: :@@: :@@: :@@:

Funny how Israel/Zionists has everyone tricked into thinking they want peace. Such a big deal was made about the "Gaza pullout" did anyone even here the Corporate media report that Israel was building the same number of illegal settlements (suppossedly removed) plus 3000 more in the west bank against the law at the same time? No you didn't.

A CAMPAIGN AGAINST "INCITEMENT"
By James J. Zogby, Arab American Institute, 9 July 2001.

A few weeks ago, New York's Senators Charles Schumer and Hillary Clinton held an inflammatory press conference to denounce what they called "Palestinian incitement against Israel."

Speaking for the two, Senator Schumer observed that while an Israeli-Palestinian cease fire had been negotiated by U.S. CIA Chief George Tenet, it might only provide a temporary reprieve from violence because:
"as long as Yasser Arafat instructs the young people of Palestine to hate the Jews in a way not unlike what the Germans did in the '30s... then there won't be peace."

And so Schumer announced that he and Mrs. Clinton were writing to President George W. Bush urging him "to press Yasser Arafat to end the use of hateful, anti-Israel rhetoric in official Palestinian statements, school books and newspapers and make that agreement a precursor to any future talks."

For his prime evidence of this Palestinian incitement, Schumer cites what he calls "the sixth-grade textbook called Our Country Palestine put out by the Palestinian Authority." Schumer argues that the book states "'There is no alternative to destroying Israel' and then it says 'all of Palestine is ours.'"

A briefing paper released by Schumer's press office repeats this claim. The paper cites the above quote, claiming that it appears as the "banner of the title page of Volume I" in Our Country Palestine. The book is described as "required reading under the new Palestinian sixth-grade curriculum."

In response to questions at their press conference both Senators further elaborated on their charges noting that these books are used in "all the schools" according to Schumer and Mrs. Clinton added that "They're required."

The problem with the case presented by Schumer and Clinton is that it is a fabrication based on a distortion.

The facts are:

-There is no sixth-grade Palestinian textbook called Our Country Palestine;

-Since 1967 the only textbooks used in the West Bank and Gaza were Jordanian and Egyptian textbooks approved by the Israeli occupying authority;

-After Oslo, the Palestinian Authority was allowed, for the first time, to produce its own educational material. Because of the costs involved, to date, the Palestinian Authority has only been able to issue its textbooks in the first and sixth grades;

-The sixth-grade series does not include any book named Our Country Palestine. In fact, that book is not used in any Palestinian schools;

-There is an encyclopedia named Our Country Palestine. It is one of the works by Palestinian author Mustafa Dabbagh. It was written in 1947 and subsequently reissued in 1988.

-Mustafa Dabbagh's life is, in fact, discussed in one of the Palestinian Authority's sixth-grade texts called Our Beautiful Language. In this treatment of his life it is merely mentioned that he wrote an encyclopedia called Our Country Palestine.

-This encyclopedia is not in print, and is not currently available in the West Bank or Gaza. A review of the books in this encyclopedia, however, makes it clear that nowhere is there the banner "There is no alternative to destroying Israel!"

So where did Schumer get this information on which he based his erroneous allegations?

In November and December 2000, a group calling itself "Jews for Truth Now" printed inflammatory ads in Israeli and U.S. papers. These ads feature the quote "There is no alternative to destroying Israel" and allege it is the "banner on the title page of Our Country Palestine which they further allege is "a book introduced [emphasis added] by the Palestinian Authority into the sixth-grade curriculum."

The information for this ad apparently comes from the work of another group called the Center for Monitoring the Impact of Peace (CMIP). Starting from the slim thread that the Palestinian Authority's sixth-grade text makes mention of Our Country Palestine, the CMIP charges that the Palestinian Authority "introduced the book [an artful expression that could suggest, to a careless reader, that the book is actually being used]."

An independent Palestinian group run by Dr. Hanan Ashrawi has reviewed the CMIP report, complete with all of the offensive quotes it alleges to have found in Our Country Palestine, and concludes that neither "There is no alternative to destroying Israel" nor any of the other alleged quotes are found anywhere in the book in question. And of special concern here, these quotes most certainly do not appear in any book used in the Palestinian Authority's sixth-grade curriculum.

And so now the trajectory of Schumer's lie may be traced.

http://electronicintifada.net/features/mediaonmedia/20010709zogby.html

Originally posted by Jester
However, we now see that a democratically elected government might not be friendly towards us and our interests.
There's more to being a democracy than having one election. Iraq held elections under Hussein.

*****

Googs, Arab countries have had countless opportunities over the years to help the Palestinians. Google "Black September" and see what Jordan did to rid themselves of the Palestinians. Arab supposed support for Palestinians is just an excuse to criticize Israel.

'Next To Jews, We Hate Palestinians The Most' - King Fahd

Originally posted by 500lbguerilla
:@@: :@@: :@@: :@@: :@@: :@@:

Funny how Israel/Zionists has everyone tricked into thinking they want peace. Such a big deal was made about the "Gaza pullout" did anyone even here the Corporate media report that Israel was building the same number of illegal settlements (suppossedly removed) plus 3000 more in the west bank against the law at the same time? No you didn't.

The Prophet Muhammad, [who] the Jews tried to assassinate more than once, with poison and with witchcraft, and by throwing stones at him, and by political assassinations. He warned us about the Jews, and about the Jews’ evil and the Jews’ deceit... And he [Muhammad] battled them and expelled them from Arabia saying : ‘There will not be two religions in Arabia.’ He clarified the character of the Jew, in the Koran and in the sayings of the Prophet, so we would beware of them at every moment and at all times. And so that we know how to deal with the Jews...Say to those who do not believe - the Jews... Expect your graveyard! Expect your final battle!”
[Dr. Mahmoud Mustafa Najem, Friday Sermon, PA TV, Feb. 8, 2002]

2. Because of this enmity Islam’s war with Jews is intrinsic and will not be resolved peacefully. Palestinian leaders have preached repeatedly that the universal killing of Jews is necessary for the coming of the “Hour” - the Islamic Resurrection. Accordingly, all peace agreements with Jews are temporary:

“We the Palestinian nation, our fate from Allah is to be the vanguard in the war against the Jews until the resurrection of the dead, as the prophet Muhammad said: ‘The “Hour” [Resurrection] will not come until you will fight the Jews and kill them… ’ All of the agreements entered into [with Israel] are temporary, until the decree comes from Allah...” ADSL 56K

[Dr. Ahmad Youssuf Abu Halabiyeh, Friday Sermon, , member of the Palestinian Sharia (Islamic religious law) Rulings Council, and Rector Advanced Studies, the Islamic University, Palestinian Television, 28 July 2000]
3. Once war is defined as religious necessity it is a small step to define the killing of Jews as a religious requirement:

“The Jews are the Jews. There never was among them a supporter of peace. They are all liars… They are terrorists. Therefore it is necessary to slaughter them and murder them, according to the words of Allah… It is forbidden to have mercy in your hearts for the Jews in any place and in any land. Make war on them any place that you find yourself. Any place that you meet them – kill them. Kill the Jews and those among the Americans that are like them… The Jews only understand might. Have no mercy on the Jews, murder them everywhere…” ADSL 56K
Dr. Ahmed Yousuf Abu Halabiah, preacher,
member of the Palestinian Sharia (Islamic religious law) Rulings Council,
and Rector Advanced Studies, the Islamic University,
Palestinian Television, 13 October 2000

The Qur'an says: "God forbids you not, with regards to those who fight you not for [your] faith nor drive you out of your homes, from dealing kindly and justly with them; for God loveth those who are just." (Qur'an, 60:8)

It is one function of Islamic law to protect the privileged status of minorities, and this is why non-Muslim places of worship have flourished all over the Islamic world.

History provides many examples of Muslim tolerance towards other faiths: when the caliph Omar entered Jerusalem in the year 634, Islam granted freedom of worship to all religious communities in the city.

Islamic law also permits non-Muslim minorities to set up their own courts, which implement family laws drawn up by the minorities themselves.

When the caliph Omar took Jerusalem from the Byzantines, he insisted on entering the city with only a small number of his companions. Proclaiming to the inhabitants that their lives and property were safe, and that their places of worship would never be taken from them, he asked the Christian patriarch Sophronius to accompany him on a visit to all the holy places.

The Patriarch invited him to pray in the Church of the Holy Sepulchre, but he preferred to pray outside its gates, saying that if he accepted, later generations of Muslims might use his action as an excuse to turn it into a mosque.

Originally posted by Brooks
There's more to being a democracy than having one election. Iraq held elections under Hussein.
That's one good point! And the U.S. held elections under George Dub-ya Bush. That's "good point" number two.

Originally posted by googs


It is one function of Islamic law to protect the privileged status of minorities, and this is why non-Muslim places of worship have flourished all over the Islamic world.

History provides many examples of Muslim tolerance towards other faiths: when the caliph Omar entered Jerusalem in the year 634, Islam granted freedom of worship to all religious communities in the city.

Islamic law also permits non-Muslim minorities to set up their own courts, which implement family laws drawn up by the minorities themselves.





The people defeated by Muslims become Dhimmis, the protected people.



As we have seen, the jizya was mandatory under threat of jail, conversion, slav_ery, the abduction of dhimmi children, or death. Dhimmis paid double the taxes of the Muslims and were subjected to the most degrading corvées. In North Africa and Yemen, repugnant obligations, such as executioner, grave_digger, cleaner of public latrines and the like, were forced on Jews, even on Saturdays and holy days. Religious restrictions were numerous, ranging from prohibitions in building, repair and enlargement of synagogues and churches to regulations imposing humility, silence and secrecy in prayer and during burial. The destruction, confiscation and Islamization of synagogues, and more often churches, were common and are often mentioned in legal treatises and dhimmi chronicles.

In the legal domain, specific laws ordained permanent inferiority and humilia_tion for the dhimmis. Their lives were valued at considerably less than that of a Muslim. The penalty for murder was much lighter if the dhimmi was the victim. Likewise, penalities for offenses were unequal between Muslims and non-Muslims. A dhimmi had no right to defend himself if he was physically assaulted by a Muslim; he could only beg for mercy. He was deprived of two fundamental rights: the right of self‑defense against physical aggression, and the right to defend himself in an Islamic law court as his testimony was refused. Dhimmis could be judged under the provisions of their own legislation. However dhimmi legislation was not recognized in Muslim courts, whose judgements superseded dhimmi legal decisions.

Dhimmis were forbidden to have authority over Muslims, to possess or buy land, to marry Muslim women, to have Muslim slaves or servants, or to use the Arabic alphabet

Q: Does this vote mean that Palestinians support Islamic fundamentalism?


A: Not likely. Although in recent years, religion has increased in influence in the Palestinian territories, Palestinian society still has a very strong secular element. While Hamas certainly has a sizable core of supporters, their success in this election was not due to religion, ideology or violence. Rather, it was attributable to the failure and corruption of the ruling Fatah party and to the accurate perception that Hamas was better organized and free of rampant corruption.


More than anything, this was a vote for change, and Hamas was the alternative. Beyond Fatah’s corruption, there was also the fact that Fatah’s way of doing things had gained the Palestinians nothing in their dealings with Israel. From the Palestinian point of view, the politics of Fatah failed to produce results, so why not give Hamas a chance?

Originally posted by googs
Q: Does this vote mean that Palestinians support Islamic fundamentalism?


A: Not likely. Although in recent years, religion has increased in influence in the Palestinian territories, Palestinian society still has a very strong secular element. While Hamas certainly has a sizable core of supporters, their success in this election was not due to religion, ideology or violence. Rather, it was attributable to the failure and corruption of the ruling Fatah party and to the accurate perception that Hamas was better organized and free of rampant corruption.


More than anything, this was a vote for change, and Hamas was the alternative. Beyond Fatah’s corruption, there was also the fact that Fatah’s way of doing things had gained the Palestinians nothing in their dealings with Israel. From the Palestinian point of view, the politics of Fatah failed to produce results, so why not give Hamas a chance?

Did they ever think of stopping killing and getting on with their lives in peace with the world?

When they aren't on Jihad the Jews open the gates and let them in for work and trade, that is what the jews want is peace, work and trade.

Well if Israel has a militia, I can't see why the Palestinians cant.

Originally posted by googs
Well if Israel has a militia, I can't see why the Palestinians cant.

Israel has an Army and every soldier has to honor international laws.

Palestines have many militia's and they are responsible to nobody. They break every international law at will.

I could have sworn that the IDF was a militia before they were the "army". They were called Hagana or something like that. I have to find the name.

Originally posted by googs
I could have sworn that the IDF was a militia before they were the "army". They were called Hagana or something like that. I have to find the name.

Encouraged and incited by growing Arab nationalism throughout the Middle East, the Arabs of that small remaining Palestinian territory west of the Jordan River launched never-ending murderous attacks upon the Jewish Palestinians in an effort to drive them out. Most terrifying were the Hebron massacres of 1929 and later during the 1936-39 "Arab Revolt." The British at first tried to maintain order but soon (due to the large oil deposits being discovered throughout the Arab Middle East) turned a blind eye. It became painfully clear to the Palestinian Jews that they must fight the Arabs AND drive out the British.
History of Palestine :1947 U.N. Partition Plan

The Palestinian Jews were forced to form an organized defense against the Arabs Palestinians.... thus was formed the Hagana, the beginnings of the Israeli Defense Forces [IDF]. There was also a Jewish underground called the Irgun led by Menachem Begin (who later became Prime Minister of Israel).

THat kinda sounds like whats happening now.

Originally posted by old-reb
There was also a Jewish underground called the Irgun led by Menachem Begin (who later became Prime Minister of Israel). Begin was a terrorist who went on to share a Nobel Peace Prize with Sadat. Why Hamas? Why not?

Originally posted by Catch 3
That's one good point! And the U.S. held elections under George Dub-ya Bush. That's "good point" number two.
How do you say "One Trick Pony" in Swedish.