So just because Denmark published a couple of satirical cartoons depicting Mohamed, the Arabs are running amok. Big deal. They’re in a perpetual state of amok 12½ months of the Christian calendar anyway.

They’re burning the Danish flag and mistakenly burning the Swiss and Swedish ones too. Well OK so the Swiss flag might look similar to a blind man and except for the outrageously contrasting colours, the Swedish flag is identical to the Danish one. But now they’re even burning the American one too! What in hell does the U.S. have to do with Danish cartoons?

In retaliation to the cartoons Iran is sponsoring a competition to see what Iranian newspaper can publish the best satirical cartoon on the Holocaust. The Jews? Why pick on the Jews (again!)? Iran says it wants to test claims (by ”the West”) of the freedom of expression. But shit! We (in ”The West”) have been poking fun at Christianity and Ned Flanders for at least a generation - and Arabs have been writing some awfully disgusting things about Jews and the Holocaust since before the majority of today’s Arabs were even born.

Religious indignation my ass. It’s the same old complexity of Arab incompetence. Intolerant Gods only serve to reflect the primitive, superstitious state of mind of their followers but do nothing in representing any possible Supreme Being that might be capable of creating heaven and earth.

“Freedom of Expression” is like a 1956 Ford Thunderbird. Sure it gets rust spots and it needs patching up occasionally but it’s worth it because once you let it get into the clutches of the steel crusher at the junkyard – it’s gone.

The Arabs and the Iranians? I say “screw them!”.

I'm looking forward to some "good" holocast cartoons. Let the floodgates open.

Originally posted by es347fan
I'm looking forward to some "good" holocast cartoons. Let the floodgates open.
Yes. "Good" ones will be hard to find.

Originally posted by Catch 3
“screw them!”[/i].

A great answer, that shows the moral superiority of western values and people.

My God!!!!!

A post in which I am in full agreement with catch 3. What is happening in the world.

Are there no longer any constants?

Originally posted by Frogger
My God!!!!!

A post in which I am in full agreement with catch 3. What is happening in the world.

Are there no longer any constants?
Look, Frogger.
I ALWAYS say exactly what I think. I’m not encumbered by a national agenda. Neither Swedish, nor American. It is natural then that you’d agree with me from time to time. If you were to read ALL of my posts I’m certain you’d find something else to be in agreement too.

Originally posted by astrapol2
A great answer, that shows the moral superiority of western values and people.
It must give you a sense of security to pick out a single phrase in all that I wrote in that post – and simply ignore the motivation leading up to it.

Originally posted by Catch 3
Religious indignation my ass. It’s the same old complexity of Arab incompetence. Intolerant Gods only serve to reflect the primitive, superstitious state of mind of their followers but do nothing in representing any possible Supreme Being that might be capable of creating heaven and earth.

The Arabs and the Iranians? I say “screw them!”.

Very, very good post

Originally posted by astrapol2
A great answer, that shows the moral superiority of western values and people.

How do you suggest we deal with them?

Originally posted by Bit/Byte
How do you suggest we deal with them?

I think most of them should have been removed from power and then given a fair trial in a UN special court (in a utopic world where the UN would really play its part), or in their respective countries. Being against death penalty I think life sentence and the seizure of all goods would have been a fair sentence.
However Staline, Mussolini and Ceaucescu are already dead.

Originally posted by astrapol2
I think most of them should have been removed from power and then given a fair trial in a UN special court ...
You've missed the subject.

I am referring only to the Arabs and Persians who are protesting on the Danish cartoons of Muhammad. Nothing more.

I missed the subjetc on purpose. As long as Bit/Byte is displaying his "model leadership" signature, I'm not debating anything else with him.
Plus, his question about "we" dealing with "them" is too vague : i sure don't want to be put in the same 'we" than him, and don't consider "them" as an homogen group.

Now, your question about people who demonstrate against cartoons makes sense. I was shocked by you sentence "the arabs and the inranians ? screw them !" since I never find accurate or even funny insults directed as groups defined by their nationality or religion.
I have no sympathy for muslim fundamenlist, who are a real threat for many people, starting for their own countries. But I refuse to put all people from arab countries in the same category - actually, many of them ar victims of this intoleran islam.
About the violent demonstrators in Palestine, Lebanon and Syria, I just say : ask their govt to apologize and repair what they've done.
This is mostly a political issue : Iran, Syria, and the Fatah in palestine, have, for different reasons, interest in directing people's anger at the EU. They took this pretext. Unfortunatley this adds to a tense situation between west and muslim people - I think we (as individuals, and our nations) should not add to this tension. But should stay firm on principes like :
- freedom of press
- Syria out of lebanon
- Solving the Palestinian problem by helping Hamas Palstinian govt in exchange for a total stop of violence.
- No nukes for Iran.

Now, I also think many muslims feel extremely threaten by western countries, sometimes with good reasons. I disagree with their reaction to these cartoons but by reading many things on this forum about muslims I feel really sorry for "us" westerners.

Originally posted by astrapol2
Now, I also think many muslims feel extremely threaten by western countries, sometimes with good reasons. I disagree with their reaction to these cartoons but by reading many things on this forum about muslims I feel really sorry for "us" westerners.
I agree with most of what you say.

The Arabs (NOT to be confused with the whole Muslim world) are looking for any excuse to get world-wide ”freebies” (free concessions on everything imaginable) so they hire gaggles of “wailers” (professional mourners) and youths who have nothing to do. This is SO much like the American blacks who shout “racist!” if you disagree with anything he says or does.

The situation of the Arabs (Again [!] NOT to be confused with the whole Muslim world) is one of individual Arab-nation incompetence and corruption on governmental levels plus daily Arab deception that is their way of life and how they deal with one another. Thieving, lying cheating, etc. My God, it is a primitive world they live in!

I recently had a short discussion on the Arabs with an acquaintance, and I mentioned that the Arabs in my neighbourhood destroyed the children’s community park within 3 months of its’ refurbishing. This fellow replies, “That’s the only thing the Arabs do”. Destroy things, that is. I had a good laugh but it is serious.

The reason that so many Arabs have found their way to “the West” is because they come from some pretty shitty countries – BUT (!) – those are Arab countries. That’s the way they do things. But what happens when they come here to our fine parks, houses, school/educational system? They tear it apart. They destroy it. And have they yet made suggestions for “a better alternative”? Sure. Chaos and rubble. That’s it! And then the world is left sucking on rocks for nourishment and standing beneath the trees for protection from the elements.

I know that you want to tell me that not all Arabs are like that and that I shouldn’t group all Arabs in the same way, but please don’t tell me that. I know the difference and I’m telling you that the vast majority of Arabs who come to the West are only troublemakers.

I’ve been to approximately 20 Muslim countries in the world (including Iran) and about 15 of them are Arab countries. I have nothing against Islam. Not at all. On the other hand, I can tell you one Arab country whose people are very, very pleasant and I’ve been there many times – but for the most part all the other Arab countries I’ve been to are inhabited by some the most despicable people I have ever met.

So, if the Arabs want to destroy their own countries I don’t give a shit but I think that we, in “the West” should continue with our freedom of speech and expression and be damned with what the Arabs think.

Originally posted by Catch 3


I recently had a short discussion on the Arabs with an acquaintance, and I mentioned that the Arabs in my neighbourhood destroyed the children’s community park within 3 months of its’ refurbishing. This fellow replies, “That’s the only thing the Arabs do”. Destroy things, that is. I had a good laugh but it is serious.



I thought about this for a while and attributed it to the Arab race but then I thought that the Jews are the same race as Arabs but they build instead of destroying.

The destroying the playgrounds in a minature version of what goes on with middle east Islamics, they kill Iraqi utility workers to keep the utilities from working.

The playgrounds could be a place where Muslim and Christian children would play together, integrate, assimilate, etc. No playground no assimilate.

Originally posted by old-reb
I thought about this for a while and attributed it to the Arab race but then I thought that the Jews are the same race as Arabs but they build instead of destroying.

The destroying the playgrounds in a minature version of what goes on with middle east Islamics, they kill Iraqi utility workers to keep the utilities from working.

The playgrounds could be a place where Muslim and Christian children would play together, integrate, assimilate, etc. No playground no assimilate.

This follows Islamic modus operandi for conquest of new lands.



The Muslim conquest was followed by mass immigration of Arabs from eastern Arabia and Oman. These new arrivals did not disperse and settle throughout the country; instead they established two new garrison cities, at Al-Kufah, near ancient Babylon, and at Basra in the south. The intention was that the Muslims should be a separate community of fighting men and their families living off taxes paid by the local inhabitants. In the north of the country, Mosul began to emerge as the most important city and the base of a Muslim governor and garrison. Apart from the Persian elite and the Zoroastrian priests, whose property was confiscated, most of the local people were allowed to keep their possessions and their religion.

http://www.angelfire.com/nt/Gilgamesh/arab.html

Originally posted by old-reb
I thought about this for a while and attributed it to the Arab race but then I thought that the Jews are the same race as Arabs but they build instead of destroying.
I had the very same thought, Reb.



Originally posted by old-reb
The playgrounds could be a place where Muslim and Christian children would play together, integrate, assimilate, etc.
No playground no assimilate.
Are they able to plan that far ahead, do you think?

Arabs are descendents of Ishmael whose mother was Egyptian, who was a servant to Sara, and whose father was Hebrew, and Saras' husband. Jews are descendants of Hebrews. Hebrew means to cross over. Ishmael must of hated his father for sending him and his mother away. The Lord said Ishmael was a man whose hand was against every man and every mans' hand was against him. Genesis

"Genesis"? You must mean - Genius. :)

Originally posted by Catch 3
"Genesis"? You must mean - Genius. :)

no, I meant the book of .

Originally posted by Catch 3
I had the very same thought, Reb.




Are they able to plan that far ahead, do you think?




This plan is so common that it is not a plan but a "modus operandi" for conquest of new lands.

1) they must remain segerated in garrison cities to protect their racist superstious belief system from truth.
2) From their base they educate and subjugate the native population

I first heard of it as demonstrated for Iraq in the year 638. Iraq had a rich culture that was conquered many times but the conquers always assimilated into the Superior Iraqi culture.The Muslims Militarily conquered Iraq but now they also wanted to conquer the culture.

The culture conquest is a lot like what is happening in Europe today but the military conquest is not needed because of Europe open borders, welfare and multiculturism.



By the end of the following year (638), the Muslims had conquered almost all of Iraq, and the last Sasanian king, Yazdegerd III, had fled to Iran, where he was killed in 651.

The Muslim conquest was followed by mass immigration of Arabs from eastern Arabia and Oman. These new arrivals did not disperse and settle throughout the country; instead they established two new garrison cities, at Al-Kufah, near ancient Babylon, and at Basra in the south. The intention was that the Muslims should be a separate community of fighting men and their families living off taxes paid by the local inhabitants. In the north of the country, Mosul began to emerge as the most important city and the base of a Muslim governor and garrison. Apart from the Persian elite and the Zoroastrian priests, whose property was confiscated, most of the local people were allowed to keep their possessions and their religion.



http://www.angelfire.com/nt/Gilgamesh/arab.html

I thought about this for a while and attributed it to the Arab race but then I thought that the Jews are the same race as Arabs but they build instead of destroying. Gee thats funny last time I saw the news it was Jews who were destroying cities neighborhoods and buildings in Palistine. Its was White people destroying Iraq for the second time.

To attribute such things to races is compltely absurd.

It was zionists destroying the Palistinians neighborhoods, most Zionists are jews, unfortunatly for Jews. It was Americans destroying Iraq for the second time. Most Americans are white.

You see how stupid that race based "logic" is now?

Originally posted by 500lbguerilla
Gee thats funny last time I saw the news it was Jews who were destroying cities neighborhoods and buildings in Palistine. Its was White people destroying Iraq for the second time.

To attribute such things to races is compltely absurd.

It was zionists destroying the Palistinians neighborhoods, most Zionists are jews, unfortunatly for Jews. It was Americans destroying Iraq for the second time. Most Americans are white.

You see how stupid that race based "logic" is now?

Muslims send our their youth with bombs strapped on them to kill innocent jews and the Jews take it out on their houses. Hmm, stupid Jews should take it out on their hide instead of their houses.

Palestine Mama's and Daddys, when you send your children out as suicide bombers your house will get the bulldozer but not to worry you will receive enough money from Iran to retire.

Originally posted by 500lbguerilla
................
To attribute such things to races is compltely absurd.
............................
You see how stupid that race based "logic" is now?
Take it easy, “Pounder”!

I’ve devolved my prejudices over periods of many years and with passionate caress. They are all mine and nothing has been taken on board from any outside sources. But make no mistake, I know that they are prejudices and I know what they mean to me personally. So if you don’t like them then I suggest that you leave mine be and acquire your own. In any case, my assessment of Arabs (in general) goes right down to the destruction of their own garden, which is in contrast to the “others”.

Originally posted by old-reb
This plan is so common that it is not a plan but a "modus operandi" for conquest of new lands.
Looks interesting, Reb. I’ve printed it out and I’ll have a good read of it when I get a chance. Thanks.

Originally posted by Catch 3
Looks interesting, Reb. I’ve printed it out and I’ll have a good read of it when I get a chance. Thanks.

Hello catch3, I often have a hard time communicating to people about racism, segeration and how integration ends racism.

The Muslims destroy the playgrounds because they would integrate their children with the Sweds and their children would lose there racist beliefs about infidels.

This seems hard for most people to grasp but it is clear to me because of my lifes experiences. Let me share my racist childhood.

I grew up in a segerated society in the 1940's and 50's and we thought the blacks were not human but apes that we had brought from the jungle and this was believed by most everyone with whom I spoke so it must be true.
I went into the integrated US Military and during boot camp I loudly told a N-g-r joke but instead of laughing everyone looked horrified but the apes looked pissed and surrounded me with questions. Integration told me that you can't call them apes when they are in your face.

I was also amazed that the apes often out performed me in both mental and physical skills. It was a rude awaking for me, one that shatterd my whole belief system

Integration destroys racism, and yes I know that I open myself to the KKK comments from the Islamics.

Originally posted by old-reb
Hello catch3, I often have a hard time communicating to people about racism, segeration and how integration ends racism.
Yes. I understand now. :)

For Old-Reb and 500lbguerilla.

The comment I made about my prejudices were meant to be cynically, self-critical but that may not have been very obvious.

Let me reiterate:

These are my prejudices! There are many like them, but these are mine! My prejudices are my best friends. They are my life. I must master them, like I master my life. Without me, my prejudices are useless. Without my prejudices, I am useless.

Originally posted by Catch 3


These are my prejudices! There are many like them, but these are mine! My prejudices are my best friends. They are my life. I must master them, like I master my life. Without me, my prejudices are useless. Without my prejudices, I am useless.

Prejudices are a integral part of our human experience. We can be prejudiced toward Ford or Honda or local products or our favorite ball team.

In the West, Prejudice has wrongly come to mean racist as in the Muslim or KKK or Nazis. So when you say prejudice then many Americans only see the word, racist.

People are so sensitive about being compared to Nazis that even having the trains running on time could have a Nazi stigma.

Originally posted by old-reb
Prejudices are a integral part of our human experience.
........................
In the West, Prejudice has wrongly come to mean racist as in the Muslim or KKK or Nazis. So when you say prejudice then many Americans only see the word, racist.
Yes. I agree with you.

Furthermore, even racism itself is often wrongly defined. I have heard “whites” say thing like, “I don’t know why some people don’t like blacks. I think they have such beautiful smiles!”

But yes, I think prejudice is OK. It saves me a whole lot of trouble when dealing with people and I’m sure it helps others too. Would you buy a used car from a salesman who won’t look you straight in the eye, for example? Why not? On the other hand it can prevent someone from moving ahead if it is misused or falsely understood.

Your story on your life is interesting. I didn’t grow up in such an environment but I did live in southern Africa during the Apartheid era. How on earth “God fearing” people could treat other human beings in such a way is beyond me.



Originally posted by old-reb
People are so sensitive about being compared to Nazis that even having the trains running on time could have a Nazi stigma.


:) :D :)

Without me, my prejudices are useless. Without my prejudices, I am useless. With your prejudices you might be useless. Prejudices are just excuses to not think about new situations with new people.

Old Reb was lucky. He was in a situation where he was forced to confront his prejudices. If he had merely told a racist joke at a friends or black persons house he may never had have had contact with such a group again and still hold such things as truth. Sounds to me like he needs to go join a mosque and tell some sandnigger jokes....

Originally posted by Catch 3
Religious indignation my ass. It’s the same old complexity of Arab incompetence. Intolerant Gods only serve to reflect the primitive, superstitious state of mind of their followers but do nothing in representing any possible Supreme Being that might be capable of creating heaven and earth.

Interesting comment.........because NOWHERE in the world do we see more violent and murderous consequneces flowing from people's ingrained ignorance and superstition and the devotion to intolerant gods than in the United States of America; with its barbaric and intolerant gawd *Jehovah* and its Christian religion.

Your comment could easily (and more accurately) be re-phrased to say --

"Religious indignation my ass. It’s the same old calamity of American ignorance. An intolerant God only serves to reflect the primitive, superstitious state of mind of its followers, and does nothing in representing any possible 'Supreme Being' that might be capable of creating heaven and earth."

False indignation, indeed.

Originally posted by 500lbguerilla
With your prejudices you might be useless. ...
Perhaps you couldn’t see my tongue planted firmly in my cheek when I wrote it.... :D

Originally posted by 500lbguerilla
With your prejudices you might be useless. Prejudices are just excuses to not think about new situations with new people.

Old Reb was lucky. He was in a situation where he was forced to confront his prejudices. If he had merely told a racist joke at a friends or black persons house he may never had have had contact with such a group again and still hold such things as truth. Sounds to me like he needs to go join a mosque and tell some sandnigger jokes....

This did cause me to pause and think, could I be wrong again? It is true that I would not tell a sandnig-ger joke in a mosque because I value my life.

Here are some differences in the two things.
1) I thought the blacks were dumb and weak, I felt superior.
1a) They were neither dumb or weak,
2) I thought they were usless and only a liability to mankind.
2a) Even tho I gave my best effort, many of them out performed me mentally and physically in boot camp .
3 All my prejudices were proved wrong.

My prejudices against Muslims.
1) They feel superior to non-believers and must dominate them.
2) They are in a constant Jihad against non-believers by the pen and the sword
3) Almost all Muslims agree that Israel has no right to exist or any Jew for that matter.
4) Almost all Muslims agree that Western nations have no right to freedom of press. Only good things can be said about Islam. The truth is banned.
5) Almost all muslims agree that the USA deserved 9/11, England deserved 5/5 and Spain deserved having their trains bombed.

Telling a sandnig-ger joke in a Mosque would only reinforce my beliefs, that is if I lived that long.

That also covers vilepagen admonishing me for saying "us" and "them". It is us and them and it is them that makes the distinction.

"They" are so intolerant that they blow up a 1500 year old budda statue and the most holy gold covered Shiite Mosque that that stood since the early days of Islam.

I think they are a danger to western society and I think I got it right this time.

Originally posted by old-reb
This did cause me to pause and think, could I be wrong again?
You’re an honest man, Reb. That’s worth everything else in life.

You’re honest enough to understand the racist feelings you had as a child and you’re honest enough to forgive yourself and move on to better things. You’re also honest enough to admit your prejudices of today and honest still in the hope that you will some day be proven wrong. Bravo!

How many people do we know that can claim that same level of honesty and self-awareness? Few.

Originally posted by Freethinker
Your comment could easily (and more accurately) be re-phrased to say --

"Religious indignation my ass. It’s the same old calamity of American ignorance. An intolerant God only serves to reflect the primitive, superstitious state of mind of its followers, and does nothing in representing any possible 'Supreme Being' that might be capable of creating heaven and earth."

I might have done just that except for two reasons.

1). The main subject is Arab Indignation.
2). And every time I write the word uh …… er …. Ameri- - ….. um …… - - ca…. I get a barrage of similar indignation from them.

Fighting on two fronts simultaneously is never a good idea! :)

Fighting on two fronts simultaneously is never a good idea! heh..tactical....

You’re an honest man, Reb. That’s worth everything else in life.
You’re honest enough to understand the racist feelings you had as a child and you’re honest enough to forgive yourself and move on to better things. You’re also honest enough to admit your prejudices of today and honest still in the hope that you will some day be proven wrong. Bravo!
How many people do we know that can claim that same level of honesty and self-awareness? Few. Yup

My prejudices against Muslims. 1) They feel superior to non-believers and must dominate them. 2) They are in a constant Jihad against non-believers by the pen and the sword 3) Almost all Muslims agree that Israel has no right to exist or any Jew for that matter. 4) Almost all Muslims agree that Western nations have no right to freedom of press. Only good things can be said about Islam. The truth is banned. 5) Almost all muslims agree that the USA deserved 9/11, England deserved 5/5 and Spain deserved having their trains bombed. For never having met a Muslim you seem quite presumptuous about what "all of them" think.

I am not saying that there aren't mulsims out there who feel exactly how you portray them. There are assholes, rapist murderers, power mongers, fraud and theives in every society on the planet. However the outspoken actions of the few does not reflect the thoughts or actions of the many in any society.

Now indulge me for a moment if you will. Pretend you are a muslim living in the middle east and reflect upon the points you just posted. Look at the actions of the actors, not what they are saying (body language holds the truth to all):

1,2. All Americans and Britains agree the US must liberate the middle east through absolute destruction if need be.
3. All americans agree Israel is the US's sacred ally and we will defend them right or wrong, from any and all threats, real or imagined. All Palistinians must be treated like or are terrorists until not a single one ever does anything remotly violent to Israel or any citizen thereof.
4. All Americans and Britains agree the holocuast was so horrible that anyone who even dares to question its existence or extent must be jailed to protect such.
5 Almost all Americans and Britians agree that Iraq had to be "liberated" throught the deaths of 100,000 innocents and the imprisonment of one evil guy. They also all agree that Afghanistan was good and that the rest of the ME is yet to come.

You know these staments to be untrue. You know for a fact that "All Americans" do not believe this. Shit recent polls (though they prove nothing) are showing that about 50% of the US doesn't agree. You think the Arab extremist leaders ever mention this fact? You think the US extremist leaders would ever mention the Arab reflection here?

Hell Old-Reb I'll even give you a crazy extremist quote I'm sure made it to the Arab Press just as their crazy extremist quotes make it into ours. And thats the thing. Only Crazy Extremist quotes make selling papers profitable. The voice of reason, patience, tolerance and unity is boring.

"We should invade their countries, kill their leaders and convert them to Christianity(islam). We weren't punctilious about locating and punishing only Hitler(Israel) and his top officers(the US). We carpet-bombed German cities (destroyed the twin towers); we killed civilians (blew up railways). That's war. And this is war."
Ann Coulter...

"We should invade their countries, kill their leaders and convert them to Islam. We weren't punctilious about locating and punishing only Israel and the Great Satan. We blew up buses; we killed civilians. That's war. And this is war."
or Abu Whackistani?

The more you look at it the more it becomes a great game by those with power to make themselves feel important by stirring up non-existant hatred. Sure there may be animosity, dismay, disapproval or disgust but no where is hatred but in the word of those that wish to stir up the hornets nest for their own glorification.

I find this blog to be refreshing and gives a first hand account into life in Iraq. The woman is smart articulate and an expressive writer.

http://riverbendblog.blogspot.com/