I have come to believe that our greatest failure in fighting terrorism is in not understanding the nature of what we are fighting.

Our main fight against terrorism should not be through force. Killing one terrorist, or ten thousand, is quite a useless activity. The terrorist population is not a fixed body. It can grow and diminish through perception of others, through a changing in personal ideologies, and through many other controllable and uncontrollable situations. We can kill thousands of terrorists without expending one bullet or one dollar. I believe we have the right and the duty to attack any terrorist or supporters of terrorist. Force alone, though, can never win this war.

Let's take this to extremes. Extremist Muslims are the main root -sole root?- of terror against us. If, to make sure we wipe out all radical Muslims, wipe out all Muslims everywhere have we ended terror? Would not many other people realize that our actions are gravely mistaken, hold us fully responsible, and punish us through any means necessary? If we through the clairvoyance of God kill every person with a terrorist mentality today, would that mean that tomorrow some person does not look at our actions, decide they are incorrigible, and decide to punish us in the most devastatingly of ways? The only way to win this war is through attacking or changing the ideology of terrorism and curbing the anti-American and anti-Western sentiments of a large population of the Muslim and Arab world.

Bush has repeatedly approached the problem in words but has failed to fight it with actions. When it comes down to action he has chosen the side of trying to blast terrorism off the planet and now fights an everlasting war. In doing so, He has increased the ideology of the terrorist, He has given people a reason to hate America, and He has lost a great deal of support from abroad and at home in this struggle. The solutions Bush and our country have sought are short-term and only lengthen and increase the problems we will have tomorrow. The world was ready to unite with us to snuff out terror after 9/11 but we have squandered such sentiment.

There will always be a core group of people who will hate America no matter what we do. The number of converts or followers they attract is due mainly to our actions. Confining our actions to tracking down those who would kill us does the most good while causing the least long-term harm.

There will always be a core group of people who will hate America no matter what we do.

Remember folks, they hate us for our freedoms!

Remember folks, they hate us for our freedoms!

I can't believe that they hate us for our freedom. They wouldn't give a damn about what we practiced if it did not interfere with them. They don't care if the Republic of China or any other place in the world embraced freedom tomorrow, they simply want respect to their own prerogative in their own country. They do not hate us for what we do within our own country. And they would not hate us for our actions outside our country if those actions respected the rights and sovereignty of other nations and people.

Remember folks, they hate us for our freedoms!_____Napsterbater

Originally posted by lbp111
I can't believe that they hate us for our freedom. They wouldn't give a damn about what we practiced if it did not interfere with them.

He was being completely sarcastic, lbp111.

Napster --like every other rational human on the planet-- is well aware of the preposterousness of the --"They hate us for our freedom!!"-- claim by the Righties.

He was just making a joke of it. Because that's what it is; a fucking JOKE.

Sadly, around 50 million simpletons in this country seem to have swallowed that particlar --"They hate us for our freedom!!"-- line of bullshit.

I agree 100% with you that the way to win this "war" on terrorism is through attacking or changing the ideology of terrorism and curbing the anti-American and anti-Western sentiments of a large population of the Muslim and Arab world.

We can do that by stopping killing so many of them. Of particular usenfullness in changing the view the people of the Middle East have of us would be to cease killing the women and children; who've been either bombed to death or starved to death.


""September 11 was a day of sadness, anger and fear.......

....this act was no more despicable than the massive acts of terrorism -- the deliberate killing of civilians for political purposes -- that the U.S. government has committed during my lifetime. For more than five decades throughout the Third World, the United States has deliberately targeted civilians or engaged in violence so indiscriminate that there is no other way to understand it except as terrorism. And it has supported similar acts of terrorism by client states.

If that statement seems outrageous, ask the people of Vietnam. Or Cambodia and Laos. Or Indonesia and East Timor. Or Chile. Or Central America. Or Iraq, or Palestine. The list of countries and peoples who have felt the violence of this country is long. Vietnamese civilians bombed by the United States. Timorese civilians killed by a U.S. ally with U.S.-supplied weapons. Nicaraguan civilians killed by a U.S. proxy army of terrorists. Iraqi civilians killed by the deliberate bombing of an entire country’s infrastructure.

So, my anger on this day is directed not only at individuals who engineered the Sept. 11 tragedy but at those who have held power in the United States and have engineered attacks on civilians every bit as tragic. That anger is compounded by hypocritical U.S. officials’ talk of their commitment to higher ideals, as President Bush proclaimed “our resolve for justice and peace.”

To the president, I can only say: The stilled voices of the millions killed in Southeast Asia, in Central America, in the Middle East as a direct result of U.S. policy are the evidence of our "resolve for justice and peace"".______http://www.rtis.com/touchstone/sept01/05.HTM

Originally posted by Napsterbater
Remember folks, they hate us for our freedoms!

Apparently they do - just look at the cartoon issue.

No, no, no, I really believe that a whole ethnic group can hate another country for their avowed ideology, enough so that they would want to kill large numbers of those people, and themselves in the process! It has absolutely nothing to do with the actions of that country!

Apparently they do - just look at the cartoon issue.

The issue is entirely analogous to Christians who howl about blasphemy or veterans who campaign against flag-burning. Yes, they are being asshats. Is that an excuse to incite wholesale hatred against them?

Well, still confused. I thought it might be sarcasm, but I couldn't really tell, and still can't really, so somebody frickin clear it up.

Originally posted by lbp111
Well, still confused. I thought it might be sarcasm, but I couldn't really tell, and still can't really, so somebody frickin clear it up. It all depends on how you feel about NASCAR.

Seriously, never take anything Napster says at face value. Sometimes he means what he says and other times he doesn't. In this case he is being sarcastic.

I pride myself on my ability to keep people on their toes.

Yes, lbp, as sedan said, I am being wholly sarcastic. I actually agree wholeheartedly with your first post. I just can't be bothered to reply in such a boring manner, so I try to add something interesting and fun to the mix.

It all depends on how you feel about NASCAR.

Bahahahaha!

Originally posted by Napsterbater
The issue is entirely analogous to Christians who howl about blasphemy or veterans who campaign against flag-burning. Yes, they are being asshats. Is that an excuse to incite wholesale hatred against them?

It's similar but on a whole different scale - the christians who howl etc are certainly annoying but they are typically harmless - they have a sense of where the line lies.

Printing satirical cartoons is not an act of inciting hatred toward them - it seems to incite hatred the other direction - toward the west. I totally respect a muslim's right to their beliefs, I don't share them but live & let live. I get a bit irritated though to hear muslims say that anybody who insults the prophet must die due to holy law. That's their law, not mine & I don't share their beliefs.

Newspapers have a right to print whatever cartoon they please, the fact that people may get offended is irrelevant. Don't like it - don't look. Since when did somebody in Syria ever read the Danish newspapers anyway?

Newspapers have a right to print whatever cartoon they please, the fact that people may get offended is irrelevant. Don't like it - don't look.

Precisely. I, first of all, don't see the relevance to this thread, and second, don't see why it's such a big deal. Why are you complaining that other people are getting offended? That they say they deserve the death penalty is of no real consequence.

Printing satirical cartoons is not an act of inciting hatred toward them

I was referring to the inciting of hatred towards Muslims and Arabs in general for being asshats.

Remember folks, they hate us for our freedoms! Which is why we respond to their attacks by destroying said freedoms...
;)

I think it is a mistake to assume that terrorists act find their roots in hatred or religion.
Sure, they (in the case of radical islamists) use religion both as a pretext and as a mean of manipulating their adepts.
But terrorism is most of all a political issue. These people have a political agenda- which may be creating an islamist regime, but which in many case as not much to do with religion or feelings.

First, for Al Quaeda, it seems to be freeing their territory from foreign influence - first USSR in Afghanistan (but then they weren't terrorists but heroes, remember), then USA from Saudi Arabia and the gulf.
For Hamas, it is the same thing with Israel and Palestine.

For a long time, terrorism has been totally dissociated from Islam and was mostly related to atheist communism.

To be honest,I only hate US gameshows

I think it is a mistake to assume that terrorists act find their roots in hatred or religion.

True.

Similarly, the ConservaFascist regime currently running the US, in its exportation of terrorism around the world, is in no way motivated by 'hatred' or 'religion'.

Their motivation is 100% economic......doing whatever will result in the greatest long-term profits for US Corporations (with, btw, NO regard whatsoever for how many people worldwide may be poisoned, bombed, killed, or starved to death in the process) and the elites who own those Corporations and who hold the reins of absolute power in the world.

Sure, they (in the case of radical islamists) use religion both as a pretext and as a mean of manipulating their adepts.

Again, dead-on accurate.

Just as the Corporatists in this country have, since its inception, used religion as a pretext and (even moreso) as a means of controlling the gullible, simpleminded masses.