Decka
02-03-2006, 10:06 PM
Wow, what an old old subject.
And while im almost sick of talking about it, i AM amused at how certain things are seen as FACT by some... only revealing their true bias. The truth is, noone knows if Iraq had WMD's... but besides pretty much EVERYONE in washington thinking they did, and MANY other nations agreeing, there is alot more to say they might have.
First off.. they have used them before, and recently: http://www.kdp.pp.se/chemical.html
BLOODY FRIDAY
Of all the atrocities committed against the Kurds during the Anfal, Halabja has come to symbolize the worst of the repression of the Iraqi Kurds. Halabja was a town of 70,000 people located about 8-10 miles from the Iranian border. It became the target of conventional and chemical bomb attacks over three days in March of 1988.
During those three days, the town and the surrounding district were unmercifully attacked with bombs, artillery fire, and chemicals. The chemical weapons were the most destructive of life. The chemicals used included mustard gas and the nerve agents sarin, tabun, and VX. At least 5,000 people died immediately as a result of the chemical attack and it is estimated that up to 12,000 people in all died during the course of those three days.
We found artillery shells, nerve agents, and the CIA member was confident this was not "a wild goose chase"....
"A wild goose chase is when you're looking for something that may not exist," he said. "We're looking for something that does exist, and that is the truth. You know I wasn't sent here to find weapons of mass destruction. I was sent out here to find the truth about Iraqi weapons of mass destruction programs."
http://edition.cnn.com/2004/WORLD/meast/05/26/iraq.duelfer/
We found more warheads later on:
Polish troops have found two warheads in Iraq believed to contain a deadly nerve agent, but it is not clear what period the weapons came from, the Defense Ministry said Thursday.
The two warheads were found in early June in a bunker in the area controlled by Polish forces, and they tested positive for cyclosarin, a substance many times stronger than sarin, the ministry said in a statement.
"There is no doubt that the warheads contain chemical weapons," Defense Minister Jerzy Szmajdzinski told TVN24. "The problem is what period they came from, whether the (Persian) Gulf War or earlier, and whether they were usable, partly usable or not at all."
http://www.usatoday.com/news/world/iraq/2004-07-01-poland-iraq-sarin_x.htm
If you read the full article above, you'll notice they MIGHT or MIGHT NOT be useable.. but that SURELY goes against Iraq having NONE at all doesnt it?
As for what EXACTLY was found during the first big look into Iraq...David Kay gave a report, which you can find at the following link: http://www.odci.gov/cia/public_affairs/speeches/2003/david_kay_10022003.html
In it he mentions what they found:
We have discovered dozens of WMD-related program activities and significant amounts of equipment that Iraq concealed from the United Nations during the inspections that began in late 2002. The discovery of these deliberate concealment efforts have come about both through the admissions of Iraqi scientists and officials concerning information they deliberately withheld and through physical evidence of equipment and activities that ISG has discovered that should have been declared to the UN.
As for Saddam's Nuclear program:
With regard to Iraq's nuclear program, the testimony we have obtained from Iraqi scientists and senior government officials should clear up any doubts about whether Saddam still wanted to obtain nuclear weapons. They have told ISG that Saddam Hussain remained firmly committed to acquiring nuclear weapons.These officials assert that Saddam would have resumed nuclear weapons development at some future point.
As for Chemical weapons:
Let me turn now to chemical weapons (CW). In searching for retained stocks of chemical munitions, ISG has had to contend with the almost unbelievable scale of Iraq's conventional weapons armory, which dwarfs by orders of magnitude the physical size of any conceivable stock of chemical weapons.
Look at the WHOLE report by david kay... it kinda tells a little more than what other people THINK was going on.
Now, The other big argument is whether Saddam had ties to Al Quida. While liberals are TRYING to make it a "fact" that they didnt by simply repeating it over and over, these sites and facts wait to be refuted, which are listed on the following link: http://www.military.com/NewContent/0,13190,Defensewatch_112603_Connection,00.html
[i]# Top Iraqi intelligence officials and other trusted representatives of Saddam Hussein met repeatedly with bin Laden and his subordinates.
# Iraq provided safe havens, money, weapons, and fraudulent Iraqi and Syrian passports to al Qaeda.
# Iraq provided training in the manufacture and use of sophisticated explosives. Bin Laden specifically requested that Iraqi intelligence's premier explosives maker, Brig. Gen. Salim al-Ahmed, who was especially skilled in making car bombs, remain with him in Sudan. The Iraqi intelligence chief instructed Salim to remain in Sudan with bin Laden as long as required.
# A Malaysia-based Iraqi national, Ahmed Hikmat Shakir, secured a job at the airport in Kuala Lumpur with help from the Iraqi Embassy in Malaysia. He then facilitated the movement of Khalid al Midhar and Nawaq al Hamzi, two of the 9/11 hijackers, through passport control and customs to attend an operational meeting in Kuala Lumpur on Jan. 5, 2000. Tawfiz al Atash, a top bin Laden lieutenant who masterminded the Oct. 12, 2000, attack on the USS Cole, was one of the men at that meeting.
# Senior al Qaeda operative Ibn al-Shaykh al-Libi traveled to Iraq in 1998 to establish a relationship with Iraqi intelligence to obtain poisons and gases training. In December 2000, after the USS Cole bombing, two al Qaeda operatives went to Iraq for CBW-related training. Iraqi intelligence was "encouraged" to provide this training after the embassy and USS Cole bombings."
# Mohamed Atta, the alleged mastermind of the September 11 hijackings, met at least four times in Prague with Ahmed Khalil Ibrahim Samir al Ani, former Iraqi intelligence chief. During one of those meetings, al Ani ordered his finance officer to issue Atta funds from Iraqi Intelligence Service financial holdings in the Prague office.
Saddam helped and was definitely linked to worldwide terrorism as a whole:
Saddam Hussein knew plenty about terrorism. In essence, he owned and operated a full-service general store for global terrorists, complete with cash, diplomatic aid, safe haven, training, and even medical attention. Such assistance violated United Nations Security Council Resolution 687. The results not only broke international law, but also were deadly, as this chart demonstrates:
http://www.husseinandterror.com/jpeg%20pics/08sized.jpg
http://www.husseinandterror.com/
There's ALOT in that link, along with the David Kay link.
You want more, here's some more statements about Saddams support of International terrorism: http://www.whitehouse.gov/infocus/iraq/decade/sect5.html
Iraq is one of seven countries that have been designated by the Secretary of State as state sponsors of international terrorism. UNSCR 687 prohibits Saddam Hussein from committing or supporting terrorism, or allowing terrorist organizations to operate in Iraq. Saddam continues to violate these UNSCR provisions.
* In 1993, the Iraqi Intelligence Service (IIS) directed and pursued an attempt to assassinate, through the use of a powerful car bomb, former U.S. President George Bush and the Emir of Kuwait. Kuwaiti authorities thwarted the terrorist plot and arrested 16 suspects, led by two Iraqi nationals.
* Iraq shelters terrorist groups including the Mujahedin-e-Khalq Organization (MKO), which has used terrorist violence against Iran and in the 1970s was responsible for killing several U.S. military personnel and U.S. civilians.
* Iraq shelters several prominent Palestinian terrorist organizations in Baghdad, including the Palestine Liberation Front (PLF), which is known for aerial attacks against Israel and is headed by Abu Abbas, who carried out the 1985 hijacking of the cruise ship Achille Lauro and murdered U.S. citizen Leon Klinghoffer.
* Iraq shelters the Abu Nidal Organization, an international terrorist organization that has carried out terrorist attacks in twenty countries, killing or injuring almost 900 people. Targets have included the United States and several other Western nations. Each of these groups have offices in Baghdad and receive training, logistical assistance, and financial aid from the government of Iraq.
* In April 2002, Saddam Hussein increased from $10,000 to $25,000 the money offered to families of Palestinian suicide/homicide bombers. The rules for rewarding suicide/homicide bombers are strict and insist that only someone who blows himself up with a belt of explosives gets the full payment. Payments are made on a strict scale, with different amounts for wounds, disablement, death as a "martyr" and $25,000 for a suicide bomber. Mahmoud Besharat, a representative on the West Bank who is handing out to families the money from Saddam, said, "You would have to ask President Saddam why he is being so generous. But he is a revolutionary and he wants this distinguished struggle, the intifada, to continue."
* Former Iraqi military officers have described a highly secret terrorist training facility in Iraq known as Salman Pak, where both Iraqis and non-Iraqi Arabs receive training on hijacking planes and trains, planting explosives in cities, sabotage, and assassinations.
Here's another goody about Saddam and his terroism buddies:
http://www.geocities.com/munichseptember1972/osamas_best_friend.htm
And before we get all selfish and try to only worry about american TRAINED SOLDIERS dying... lets remember the question of "HOW MANY PEOPLE HAS SADDAM KILLED???".. a good read: http://www.frontpagemag.com/Articles/Printable.asp?ID=5773
Just some food for thought... with so much saying the opposite, i dont know how ANYONE can claim ANYTHING for certain one way or the other.
And while im almost sick of talking about it, i AM amused at how certain things are seen as FACT by some... only revealing their true bias. The truth is, noone knows if Iraq had WMD's... but besides pretty much EVERYONE in washington thinking they did, and MANY other nations agreeing, there is alot more to say they might have.
First off.. they have used them before, and recently: http://www.kdp.pp.se/chemical.html
BLOODY FRIDAY
Of all the atrocities committed against the Kurds during the Anfal, Halabja has come to symbolize the worst of the repression of the Iraqi Kurds. Halabja was a town of 70,000 people located about 8-10 miles from the Iranian border. It became the target of conventional and chemical bomb attacks over three days in March of 1988.
During those three days, the town and the surrounding district were unmercifully attacked with bombs, artillery fire, and chemicals. The chemical weapons were the most destructive of life. The chemicals used included mustard gas and the nerve agents sarin, tabun, and VX. At least 5,000 people died immediately as a result of the chemical attack and it is estimated that up to 12,000 people in all died during the course of those three days.
We found artillery shells, nerve agents, and the CIA member was confident this was not "a wild goose chase"....
"A wild goose chase is when you're looking for something that may not exist," he said. "We're looking for something that does exist, and that is the truth. You know I wasn't sent here to find weapons of mass destruction. I was sent out here to find the truth about Iraqi weapons of mass destruction programs."
http://edition.cnn.com/2004/WORLD/meast/05/26/iraq.duelfer/
We found more warheads later on:
Polish troops have found two warheads in Iraq believed to contain a deadly nerve agent, but it is not clear what period the weapons came from, the Defense Ministry said Thursday.
The two warheads were found in early June in a bunker in the area controlled by Polish forces, and they tested positive for cyclosarin, a substance many times stronger than sarin, the ministry said in a statement.
"There is no doubt that the warheads contain chemical weapons," Defense Minister Jerzy Szmajdzinski told TVN24. "The problem is what period they came from, whether the (Persian) Gulf War or earlier, and whether they were usable, partly usable or not at all."
http://www.usatoday.com/news/world/iraq/2004-07-01-poland-iraq-sarin_x.htm
If you read the full article above, you'll notice they MIGHT or MIGHT NOT be useable.. but that SURELY goes against Iraq having NONE at all doesnt it?
As for what EXACTLY was found during the first big look into Iraq...David Kay gave a report, which you can find at the following link: http://www.odci.gov/cia/public_affairs/speeches/2003/david_kay_10022003.html
In it he mentions what they found:
We have discovered dozens of WMD-related program activities and significant amounts of equipment that Iraq concealed from the United Nations during the inspections that began in late 2002. The discovery of these deliberate concealment efforts have come about both through the admissions of Iraqi scientists and officials concerning information they deliberately withheld and through physical evidence of equipment and activities that ISG has discovered that should have been declared to the UN.
As for Saddam's Nuclear program:
With regard to Iraq's nuclear program, the testimony we have obtained from Iraqi scientists and senior government officials should clear up any doubts about whether Saddam still wanted to obtain nuclear weapons. They have told ISG that Saddam Hussain remained firmly committed to acquiring nuclear weapons.These officials assert that Saddam would have resumed nuclear weapons development at some future point.
As for Chemical weapons:
Let me turn now to chemical weapons (CW). In searching for retained stocks of chemical munitions, ISG has had to contend with the almost unbelievable scale of Iraq's conventional weapons armory, which dwarfs by orders of magnitude the physical size of any conceivable stock of chemical weapons.
Look at the WHOLE report by david kay... it kinda tells a little more than what other people THINK was going on.
Now, The other big argument is whether Saddam had ties to Al Quida. While liberals are TRYING to make it a "fact" that they didnt by simply repeating it over and over, these sites and facts wait to be refuted, which are listed on the following link: http://www.military.com/NewContent/0,13190,Defensewatch_112603_Connection,00.html
[i]# Top Iraqi intelligence officials and other trusted representatives of Saddam Hussein met repeatedly with bin Laden and his subordinates.
# Iraq provided safe havens, money, weapons, and fraudulent Iraqi and Syrian passports to al Qaeda.
# Iraq provided training in the manufacture and use of sophisticated explosives. Bin Laden specifically requested that Iraqi intelligence's premier explosives maker, Brig. Gen. Salim al-Ahmed, who was especially skilled in making car bombs, remain with him in Sudan. The Iraqi intelligence chief instructed Salim to remain in Sudan with bin Laden as long as required.
# A Malaysia-based Iraqi national, Ahmed Hikmat Shakir, secured a job at the airport in Kuala Lumpur with help from the Iraqi Embassy in Malaysia. He then facilitated the movement of Khalid al Midhar and Nawaq al Hamzi, two of the 9/11 hijackers, through passport control and customs to attend an operational meeting in Kuala Lumpur on Jan. 5, 2000. Tawfiz al Atash, a top bin Laden lieutenant who masterminded the Oct. 12, 2000, attack on the USS Cole, was one of the men at that meeting.
# Senior al Qaeda operative Ibn al-Shaykh al-Libi traveled to Iraq in 1998 to establish a relationship with Iraqi intelligence to obtain poisons and gases training. In December 2000, after the USS Cole bombing, two al Qaeda operatives went to Iraq for CBW-related training. Iraqi intelligence was "encouraged" to provide this training after the embassy and USS Cole bombings."
# Mohamed Atta, the alleged mastermind of the September 11 hijackings, met at least four times in Prague with Ahmed Khalil Ibrahim Samir al Ani, former Iraqi intelligence chief. During one of those meetings, al Ani ordered his finance officer to issue Atta funds from Iraqi Intelligence Service financial holdings in the Prague office.
Saddam helped and was definitely linked to worldwide terrorism as a whole:
Saddam Hussein knew plenty about terrorism. In essence, he owned and operated a full-service general store for global terrorists, complete with cash, diplomatic aid, safe haven, training, and even medical attention. Such assistance violated United Nations Security Council Resolution 687. The results not only broke international law, but also were deadly, as this chart demonstrates:
http://www.husseinandterror.com/jpeg%20pics/08sized.jpg
http://www.husseinandterror.com/
There's ALOT in that link, along with the David Kay link.
You want more, here's some more statements about Saddams support of International terrorism: http://www.whitehouse.gov/infocus/iraq/decade/sect5.html
Iraq is one of seven countries that have been designated by the Secretary of State as state sponsors of international terrorism. UNSCR 687 prohibits Saddam Hussein from committing or supporting terrorism, or allowing terrorist organizations to operate in Iraq. Saddam continues to violate these UNSCR provisions.
* In 1993, the Iraqi Intelligence Service (IIS) directed and pursued an attempt to assassinate, through the use of a powerful car bomb, former U.S. President George Bush and the Emir of Kuwait. Kuwaiti authorities thwarted the terrorist plot and arrested 16 suspects, led by two Iraqi nationals.
* Iraq shelters terrorist groups including the Mujahedin-e-Khalq Organization (MKO), which has used terrorist violence against Iran and in the 1970s was responsible for killing several U.S. military personnel and U.S. civilians.
* Iraq shelters several prominent Palestinian terrorist organizations in Baghdad, including the Palestine Liberation Front (PLF), which is known for aerial attacks against Israel and is headed by Abu Abbas, who carried out the 1985 hijacking of the cruise ship Achille Lauro and murdered U.S. citizen Leon Klinghoffer.
* Iraq shelters the Abu Nidal Organization, an international terrorist organization that has carried out terrorist attacks in twenty countries, killing or injuring almost 900 people. Targets have included the United States and several other Western nations. Each of these groups have offices in Baghdad and receive training, logistical assistance, and financial aid from the government of Iraq.
* In April 2002, Saddam Hussein increased from $10,000 to $25,000 the money offered to families of Palestinian suicide/homicide bombers. The rules for rewarding suicide/homicide bombers are strict and insist that only someone who blows himself up with a belt of explosives gets the full payment. Payments are made on a strict scale, with different amounts for wounds, disablement, death as a "martyr" and $25,000 for a suicide bomber. Mahmoud Besharat, a representative on the West Bank who is handing out to families the money from Saddam, said, "You would have to ask President Saddam why he is being so generous. But he is a revolutionary and he wants this distinguished struggle, the intifada, to continue."
* Former Iraqi military officers have described a highly secret terrorist training facility in Iraq known as Salman Pak, where both Iraqis and non-Iraqi Arabs receive training on hijacking planes and trains, planting explosives in cities, sabotage, and assassinations.
Here's another goody about Saddam and his terroism buddies:
http://www.geocities.com/munichseptember1972/osamas_best_friend.htm
And before we get all selfish and try to only worry about american TRAINED SOLDIERS dying... lets remember the question of "HOW MANY PEOPLE HAS SADDAM KILLED???".. a good read: http://www.frontpagemag.com/Articles/Printable.asp?ID=5773
Just some food for thought... with so much saying the opposite, i dont know how ANYONE can claim ANYTHING for certain one way or the other.