Ford will close 14 manufacturing plants in North America and cut up to 30,000 jobs in the coming years to try to stem losses and adjust to a new, significantly lower market share. "If we build it, they'll buy it. That's business as usual and it's wrong," said Ford Chairman and CEO Bill Ford . "Our product plans for too long have been defined by our capacity. That's why we must reduce capacity in North America."

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http://www.strips4you.com

A sad day for the once-mighty US auto industry.

A suggestion;
Since trucks outsell cars and have for the past 2-3 years, perhaps Ford ought to just concentrate on a sure seller--their pickups, and eliminate production of cars.

American cars are trash. Ford trucks are good though.

Japanese cars are winning because they simply make better cars.

Originally posted by rendova
A suggestion;
Since trucks outsell cars and have for the past 2-3 years, perhaps Ford ought to just concentrate on a sure seller--their pickups, and eliminate production of cars.

I think that's what they thought they were doing 3-4 years ago when they put so much effort into their SUVs. Now suddenly people don't want SUVs. Can't put all your eggs in one basket.

http://www.indystar.com/apps/pbcs.dll/article?AID=/20060124/OPINION02/301240003/1093

I had hoped, after the 1970's, that the major American auto-makers would have learned their lesson. At that time they were producing millions of gas-guzzlers that nobody wanted when the OPEC embargo hit. A consequence of this was that foreign manufacturers gained significant market share.

Now, 30 years later, we see the same scenario being played out again, and the reasons are the same. American manufacturers cannot resist the lure of short-term profits. Foreign competetitors rely on long-term strategies that acquire market share over time. It's plain to see which is, as Ford used to say, "a better idea".

the american industrys cant compete becasue of the unions. union demands are driving these companys out of buisness. Its really quite ironic. the unions are killing the goose that lays the golden eggs

Originally posted by Travh20
the american industrys cant compete becasue of the unions. union demands are driving these companys out of buisness. Its really quite ironic. the unions are killing the goose that lays the golden eggs You are right, of course. Unions are responsible for idiotic management decisions. And it is entirely their fault that countries like Japan have universal health care and can compete more effectively. They make wage concessions and then cry like babies when they lose their jobs. Stupid unions.

they, like every other big company want to reap amazingly high profits.......like the oil companies have !!!! its that simple. because everytime a union wins a raise in pay, car prices go up to meet it !!! they never lose. why should they when they can just layoff half of their workforce.....do you really think companies would be fair to the worker if unions didnt exist ? its a necessary evil .

The American car industry is where it is because of idiotic management. That being said, when you have unions that are completely unwilling to give up benefits and agreements that are completely out of step with reality (job banking, zero co-pay health insurance) they certainly leave themselves open to easy criticism.

The american car industry is where it is for one reason. People have stopped buying their cars. If they sold cars then the union problems wouldn't matter.

Is there a big percentage of Diesel vehicles in US,especially the way prices are going.

Is there a big percentage of Diesel vehicles in US,especially the way prices are going.

Not really. You can get diesel Jettas, Jeeps, and Mercedes, but that's pretty much it. Back in the 80s GM put out some of the most godawful diesel cars in the history of the planet and that pretty much soured Americans on diesels. Plus our emissions standards are hard for diesel cars to meet.

Is there a big percentage of Diesel vehicles in US,especially the way prices are going.

It's totally unlike Europe where Diesel cars are very common. I don't think I've ever seen a diesel car on sale here. Gas is so cheap here that there is no incentive to buy a diesel car & have a car that sounds like a truck & accelerates like a grass cutter.

I remember when Americans drove big cars and trucks.
When the imports first started coming in, people laughed at those that purchased the small vehicles.
The beginning was hard, it took importers a long time to establish service centers and increase the quality of their products. Their long time goals and perseverence worked out.

Detroit was hard headed, by the time the Big 3 retooled, the imports had taken a strong hold on the market.

The first attempts by Detroit to match the economical imports were failures.
Names like Vega, Pinto, and a few others will be remembered as pieces of crap. Crap built of low quality and sold at a low price.

The major imports were durable and economical.

Today, the major American car manufacturers are "paying the piper" for bad decisions. Re-investing, instead of profit taking, could have saved later-day miseries.

Ford's, and G.M.'s and other American auto makers problems are caused by a combinatin of things.

1. They failed to retool to smaller, more fuel efficient cars and trucks.

2. They make a generally less reliable product than the foreign auto makers.

3. Unions act like it is still the glory days of the American auto industry and refuse to offer the necessary concessions.

I used to buy American. I bought Fords, Chevies, Hudsons, Dodges, and all the other American cars. Today I own three vehicles and only one is American made. I have a Mercury Mountaineer, a Honda Accord and a Mitsubishi Spyder. Of the three, the Mercury has the poorest workmanship and cost the most to buy. Unless U.S. automakers drastically improve their product the Mountaineer will be the last American made vehicle I purchase.

The Accord is a good number

It is reliable, holds more people than its size would indicate, has a large trunk capacity, has enough power to enter a high speed road safely, gets good gas mileage and is an all around good car.

Today I own three vehicles and only one is American made. I have a Mercury Mountaineer, a Honda Accord and a Mitsubishi Spyder.

I know what you meant, but for the record, your Accord was made in Ohio and your Mitsubishi was made in Illinois.

But to Japanese standards. Half the parts on my Mercury probably come from foreign countries but they are put together to American standards and sadly, those standards just aren't good enough.

For the most part, american car manufacturers are toast. They simply can't compete due to the overhead of the union contracts. (pointed out up-thread).

And things will become even tougher when the Chinese unleash their cars on the american market.

At the most, the big-3 will end up being financial institutions in the very near future ... after they rape all the retirement funds that is ... LOL.

the american industrys cant compete becasue of the unions. union demands are driving these companys out of buisness. Its really quite ironic. the unions are killing the goose that lays the golden eggs

Absolutely correct. Unions are killing the middle class of this country with outrageous demands. The companies are correctly telling the union :upyours: and outsourcing the jobs. Unfortunately unions are slowly killing this country. This problem must be fixed asap. The first step is making sure that in every state workers have the right to decide if they want to join a union at all and pay dues or not. This is a first step in a long road to recovery.

It would also be nice if the american manufacturers made a car that lasted longer than the payments.

Having worked in the automobile industry for 9 years, there is another "deeper" problem related to supplier relationships that most outside the industry do not know about.

Without going into great details, I would summarize it as follows;

The domestic manufacturers treat the suppliers like crap, the transplants are much more loyal and "supplier-friendly". i.e. the domestics "demand" a cost reduction on a part/assembly while maintaining the exact same specifications and components, while the transplants will go to the supplier and basically say "what can we do to make this part less expensive and still perform it's function well?"

This mentality by the big three domestic manufacturers is one reason why the quality sucks on their vehicles (consider too that the automotive companies manufacture very few of the parts themselves).

Also note that NAFTA and other similar trade agreements allow companies to turn their backs on America for larger profits and exploitable employees.

the american industrys cant compete becasue of the unions. union demands are driving these companys out of buisness. Its really quite ironic. the unions are killing the goose that lays the golden eggs

Unions have nothing to do with it. Your overpaid and have to many benefits also, give some back to your employer!

Absolutely correct. Unions are killing the middle class of this country with outrageous demands. The companies are correctly telling the union :upyours: and outsourcing the jobs. Unfortunately unions are slowly killing this country. This problem must be fixed asap. The first step is making sure that in every state workers have the right to decide if they want to join a union at all and pay dues or not. This is a first step in a long road to recovery.

Unions are trying to provide decent working conditions and wages for workers. You may be happy to work for minnimum wage but don't try and force it on others.
You have a choice to work within a union or not, MacDonalds is always hiring non union people like you. But then again you'll not get the wages and benefits that the unions fought long and hard to get! Can't have the best of both.

For the most part, american car manufacturers are toast. They simply can't compete due to the overhead of the union contracts. (pointed out up-thread).

And things will become even tougher when the Chinese unleash their cars on the american market.

At the most, the big-3 will end up being financial institutions in the very near future ... after they rape all the retirement funds that is ... LOL.

We have to race to the living standards of China? The union contracts are not the problem, we seem to be slowly moving to third world living standard instead of bringing them up to ours.
To many choices out there and the lowest price seems to be the rule, be that the cost of a vehicle or the wages to build it.
How many Chinese auto workers can afford to drive the vehicles they build? If union wages are reduced, it won't take long for non-union employers to lower theirs to increase their profits, the downward spiral of the standard of living will continue. the gap between the rich and poor will widen and the middle class will disappear.

Having worked in the automobile industry for 9 years, there is another "deeper" problem related to supplier relationships that most outside the industry do not know about.

Without going into great details, I would summarize it as follows;

The domestic manufacturers treat the suppliers like crap, the transplants are much more loyal and "supplier-friendly". i.e. the domestics "demand" a cost reduction on a part/assembly while maintaining the exact same specifications and components, while the transplants will go to the supplier and basically say "what can we do to make this part less expensive and still perform it's function well?"

This mentality by the big three domestic manufacturers is one reason why the quality sucks on their vehicles (consider too that the automotive companies manufacture very few of the parts themselves).


I have heard something to this effect and the US business has changed a lot in the past to be able to compete with the effecient Japanese.

Last month, I bought a new 2006 Malibu V-6 with plenty of power and it gets 34 mpg at 55 mph and 26 mpg at 85 mph, I average about 30 mpg.

I see Toyota Alavea or something and they look exactly like my Malibu. Me thinks Toyota and GM is in bed together.

I have heard something to this effect and the US business has changed a lot in the past to be able to compete with the effecient Japanese.The Japanese auto industry is crippled by their socialist national health care system.

That's why they can't compete with us smart Americans. :hahanot:

The Japanese auto industry is crippled by their socialist national health care system.

That's why they can't compete with us smart Americans. :hahanot:

I see that laughing smiley. :thumbs:

Give Ford a few years (GM too) and they will be nothing more than a finance company. Ford making cars will be something we speak about in trivia sessions.

Queue up Bob Seger's Making Thunderbirds

The big line moved one mile an hour
So loud it really hurt
The big line moved so loud
It really hurt
Back in '55
We were makin' thunderbirds

We filled conveyors
We met production
Foremen didn't waste words
We met production
Foremen didn't waste words
We were young and proud
We were makin' thunderbirds

We were makin' thunderbirds
We were makin' thunderbirds
They were long and low and sleek and fast
They were all you ever heard
Back in '55
We were makin' thunderbirds

Now the years have flown and the plants have changed
And you're lucky if you work
The big line moves but you're lucky if you work
Back in '55
We were makin' thunderbirds

Ford has made a lot of dumb decisions on the wants & needs of the buying public, that's for sure. The execs at GM need to be slapped around as well. They both make some interesting machines in for sale in other parts of the world - Ford has some great sedans available in Europe & GM has a nice little trucklet with a diesel that's been selling like crazy - in South America. Takes forever to get this kind of stuff into the states. Both auto giants are finding themselves in the unenviable position of having to share a much larger portion of their market to others much sooner than they've expected, given what they're trying to sell us now. Toyota is starting in NASCAR next season right along with the good 'ole American boys. They've been winning regularly in truck racing. The U.S. auto industry needs to make a lot of changes to remain a true competitior in the market, IMHO.

Ford has made a lot of dumb decisions on the wants & needs of the buying public, that's for sure. The execs at GM need to be slapped around as well. They both make some interesting machines in for sale in other parts of the world - Ford has some great sedans available in Europe & GM has a nice little trucklet with a diesel that's been selling like crazy - in South America. Takes forever to get this kind of stuff into the states. Both auto giants are finding themselves in the unenviable position of having to share a much larger portion of their market to others much sooner than they've expected, given what they're trying to sell us now. Toyota is starting in NASCAR next season right along with the good 'ole American boys. They've been winning regularly in truck racing. The U.S. auto industry needs to make a lot of changes to remain a true competitior in the market, IMHO.

I think a lot of government regulations keep the inovative vehicles from showing up here, lots of competition compared to the 60's & 70's

Unions are killing the middle class of this country with outrageous demands. The companies are correctly telling the union :upyours: and outsourcing the jobs.

Interesting assertion.

Does anyone here know what percentage of the price of an automobile the auto company's labor costs comprise???

Unions are trying to provide decent working conditions and wages for workers. You may be happy to work for minnimum wage but don't try and force it on others.
You have a choice to work within a union or not, MacDonalds is always hiring non union people like you. But then again you'll not get the wages and benefits that the unions fought long and hard to get! Can't have the best of both.


Then don't try and force unionism on me. just because I work somewhere where a union exists doesn't mean I should have to pander to them and pay their silly little dues. Sorry unions had their place about 50 years ago. Now they just ruin companies and create outsourcing. I place the blame for outsourcing squarely on unions. They took once decent american jobs, took companies hostage, demanded outrageous terms then screamed foul as the jobs got outsource. Sorry unions suck. :upyours: unions!

Then don't try and force unionism on me. just because I work somewhere where a union exists doesn't mean I should have to pander to them and pay their silly little dues. Sorry unions had their place about 50 years ago. Now they just ruin companies and create outsourcing. I place the blame for outsourcing squarely on unions. They took once decent american jobs, took companies hostage, demanded outrageous terms then screamed foul as the jobs got outsource. Sorry unions suck. :upyours: unions!

I'm sure you could get a managment job and leave the union job easily. Learn how to suck up tho, as most managment I have dealt with are always nervous about their job security.

"I should have to pander to them and pay their silly little dues" I bet those silly little good wages and benefits are sure nice.

I bet those silly little good wages and benefits are sure nice.

True. Those Ford and GM workers getting paid almost full pay for sitting on their ass in the job bank must be pretty happy.

True. Those Ford and GM workers getting paid almost full pay for sitting on their ass in the job bank must be pretty happy.

If you mean they are out of work because of their wage and benifit scale are to high your wrong. More like its a change in consumer buying habits and a far broader selection of proucts than in the past. Ford is building more than it can sell .

"If we build it, they'll buy it. That's business as usual and it's wrong," said Ford Chairman and CEO Bill Ford . "Our product plans for too long have been defined by our capacity. That's why we must reduce capacity in North America."

Why do people get upset when someone makes a deceent living? We seem to be happiest when others have less than ourselves, it's sending the whole middle class concept down the tubes! A race to third world living standards?

The big-3 build crap, they over pay their workers, they give them too many benefits, they do not hold them accountable for doing a poor job, they refuse to admit the day of gas-propelled vehicles is nearing it's twilight ...

Basically, they make every mistake in the book and deserve what they get.

Why do people get upset when someone makes a deceent living?

I don't have any problem with people making a decent living. Union workers need to do what they think is best for them, just like I need to do what I think is best for my family. Where I take issue with unions is when they expect me to do what's best for them. Like not take the job they walked away from (i.e. be a scab). Or not shop at the non-union grocery store even though it will save me $15/week.

I do have to say, though, I'm always confused when a union, faced with the probable bankruptcy of their employer, refuses to make any concessions. They always seem a bit out of touch.

I don't have any problem with people making a decent living. Union workers need to do what they think is best for them, just like I need to do what I think is best for my family. Where I take issue with unions is when they expect me to do what's best for them. Like not take the job they walked away from (i.e. be a scab). Or not shop at the non-union grocery store even though it will save me $15/week.

I do have to say, though, I'm always confused when a union, faced with the probable bankruptcy of their employer, refuses to make any concessions. They always seem a bit out of touch.

Concessions are often given by union members, how often do employers give more than whats essential. Sometimes the choice between losing a lot and it all isn't much different.
No body is stopping you from saving $15, I would rather spend my money at
business that pays it's workers a deceent wage.
A scab does't take a job that someone has walked away from, the union is on strike to maintain or improve thier contract. A scab is like a cheap prostitute, will do anything for little.

A scab does't take a job that someone has walked away from, the union is on strike to maintain or improve thier contract. A scab is like a cheap prostitute, will do anything for little.

Or maybe they're just a working class Joe that wants to improve his lot in life. And if you're not willing to do a job for what the company is willing to pay, then yes, you've walked away from it.

Read today's market news on the big-3 ... they're toast.

A sad day for the once-mighty US auto industry.

This is a philosophical matter that tells you that nothing stays the same forever, but God and the imbeciles ...

I know what you meant, but for the record, your Accord was made in Ohio and your Mitsubishi was made in Illinois.
You should have heard what Warren Buffet had to say about that not too long ago. In short, he was looking into purchasing GM (you heard me correctly) for 15 billion dollars. The reason he opted against it wasn't because they couldn't produce a good car, it was because of the stranglehold the United Autoworkers Union had on GM. He said that the unions have been unwavering in their relentless stance on wage increases, and each subsequent year that's followed has seen an increase over the last. When the unions established their ability to operate as "price fixers", GM had market dominance. That's no longer the case, and GM is dying. Essentially, he said that General Motors isn't a car manufacturer. It's a benefits company supplying retirement and extended medical for people who haven't worked there in years. As a matter of fact, he said that for every one worker GM has, they're paying TWO NOT TO WORK. Do the math. Unions could ruin this country, and I've said that for years.

As for Mitsubishi and Honda, our government not only gives them MAJOR monetary incentives to set up shop here, they allow them the ability to operate WITHOUT unions. It doesn't take a genius to see who wins that battle. Once again, our government sides with the "little man", and meanwhile, our country gets fucked. Gotta love it...

Looks like no more cheby's for those escaping Cubans ... gonna have to use Toyotas now.

"As for Mitsubishi and Honda, our government not only gives them MAJOR monetary incentives to set up shop here, they allow them the ability to operate WITHOUT unions. It doesn't take a genius to see who wins that battle. Once again, our government sides with the "little man", and meanwhile, our country gets fucked. Gotta love it"

At least they are being built by american workers and not built in Mexico...yet! As it would be significantly cheaper, labour cost, to build them there expect them to build there in time.
Unless americans are willing to work for Mexican wages and life style we are on downward spiral which will affect all jobs negatively.
More likely the "MAJOR monetary incentives" not the lack of union shops is the key to their success.

The #1 problem for american car manufacturers is the cost of health care and usually the main point of contention when unions bargain with the companies. If they don't fix the health care problem, they will go out of business.