Will they make a go of this? Would you go for the ultimate ride?

Space Port (http://www.space.com/news/051213_virgin_galactic.html)

" ... Sir Richard Branson’s Virgin Galactic space travel company has ironed out an agreement to utilize a futuristic spaceport to be built in New Mexico, with first flights of a suborbital spaceliner now planned in late 2008, early 2009.

Details of the agreement were discussed today in a press event called by Virgin Galactic and held at The Science Museum’s Alien Exhibition hall in London, England.

According to an Associated Press (AP) account of today’s press event, Branson has worked a deal with New Mexico that involves a 20-year lease on the spaceport, a facility that is price tagged at $225 million to build. ... "

I hope they do. The comercialization of space is the only way to move humanity there in any appreciable numbers. There are profits to be made from resources in space, and expanding our resource base is how we continue to expand our civilization.

But should we expand into space when we can't learn to take care of what we allready have? Sooner or later we will have to move on{either that or die} I just hope that when we do greed will become a thing of the past.

Future News Headlines:
Terrorists Seize Space Shuttle-Crash Kills Thousands

Today terrorists seized the space shuttle New Age and crashed it into the Space Wheel. Thousands of tourists and the Gazillion Dollar Wheel were lost.
The family of Osama was whisked out of a New Mexico airport to an un-disclosed place.
President declares war on Moon colony where the suspected terrorists were alleged to be from.

Story supercedes last weeks news of discovery of oil at the colony.

heh...

Osamha family is PO at alien for knowing the real God. Alien Bob age 100 billion years{our scale} has met all of our leaders and even wrote a message on stone as a joke.
Osamha family will now join the Bush family for an all out holy war against these horrible truths. We will not let truth and facts interfere with oil rights and our own wars. We don't want the truth we want power and money. The one good thing that has come from this is that we will stand together for the fight against the Bob family and when it's over we can get back to business.

Alien Bob wanted to say he will fly far away and wait for a smart human{atleast peacefull}. Of course he did this in a red slay being pulled by mecahnical deer and laughing as he flew out of site. HO HO HO

Originally posted by es347fan


" ... Sir Richard Branson’s Virgin Galactic space travel company has ironed out an agreement to utilize a futuristic spaceport to be built in New Mexico, with first flights of a suborbital spaceliner now planned in late 2008, early 2009.


Forget "futuristic", "spaceport", "spaceliner". Just PR vocabulary.

The key word here is "suborbital".

It means it won't be more than a high altitude jet. Sure a nice experience for people willing to pay the price but it has nothing to do with science or space "exploration".

I still don't see how real space exploration could be financed by private fund. The main fuel for human space exploration has been military and ideological competition between the USA and USSR ; it still is the case for China. But otherwise there is no rational reason to spend money to send people in space.

Originally posted by astrapol2
But otherwise there is no rational reason to spend money to send people in space.

A great deal of scientific advances can be made by funding space programs. Exploration of space helps us learn about materials on nearby planets for potential use, advances in technology have been made and continue to do so, transportation as well as military applications, and communications progression go into developing a space program.

Commercializing the process will allow those with the funds and interest to invest in it, so the growth of population moving to space can increase, as well as the money that goes into the productions of making the equipment necessary for it. The resources to be harvested, as well as the expansion of our civilization in the future, depend on making privatization of space exploration, otherwise it will only slowly drag along with only government funded spending; which will result in the programs to get necessary amounts if they make progress, but without the investing, no more progress can be made. Also, relying on government control of the situation will lead it to almost solely military related activities, communication, transportation, and other uses such as colonization of the nearby Mars, would come from coporate hands taking some charge.

It can prove to be quite a worthy exercise for those nations that invest in such. Earth is too small to hold us forever.

Just as the Age of Exploration in the 1500's was begun by governments but didn't really take off until private enterprise saw a profit in it the Age of Space Exploration has been begun by governments but will not really take off until private enterprise see a profit in it.

Government motives are mainly military with the only civilian benefits being those that are incidental to the military ones. While satellites allow better telephone communication and television viewing that was not their original or intended purpose. The same with the discovery of teflon and other 'civilian' products. Once companies learn that metalurgy in space can produce stronger, lighter, cheaper alloys, that energy can be mined from space, that other, unknown benefits can be garnered from space the industry will grow by quantum leaps.

"Those who say why we DID it? We did it for THEM..."--not an exact quote, but said by an astronaut who never grew up in a ghetto...



www.it-wuz-a-poor-excuse-fer-wastin'-billions.edu



:(

We did it because we are curious. We always want to see what is around the next corner, over the next hill. Curiosity is what drives man onward.

I'd prefer if we finish exploring our own planet first....

I have no argument with that. We still haven't even begun exploration of the oceans.

"Not too many people know about giant squid... Not too many people WANT to know about giant squid"--Bob Schieffer of CBS, not that long ago



;)

Originally posted by Frogger
The same with the discovery of teflon and other 'civilian' products

It's funny that the only precise achievment you mention is Teflon. Many people think Teflon comes from space resaerch while it was in fact invented by mistake during the late thirties.


(...)Plunkett’s next step was to duplicate the conditions that had produced the first batch of polymerized tetrafluoroethylene (PTFE). After experimentation he succeeded in re-creating what had occurred by chance inside the canisters. On July 1, 1939, he applied for a patent (which he assigned to Kinetic Chemicals) on tetrafluoroethylene polymers. The patent was granted in 1941.

(http://www.whitetrout.net/Chuck/Teflon/teflon.htm)

Anyway I don't deny space programs may be useful and even sometimes profitable (satellites are a very good example) ; but I still don't believe human exploration may be profitable.

It costs so much money to train people and most of all to design ships that can transport human beings (and then come back to earth, which robots don't need) ; and these human beings are useless in space : they are much more a problem and a cost than a solution.

Colonizing the solar system would be an aberration, for technical, logistical and sociological reasons. Whatever disaster affect our good old earth, it will still by far easier to live on our planet than on any other.

The best evidence that human exploration of space is not profitable is that no private company has tried to do it, while the satellite market is increasingly private.

Originally posted by astrapol2
Colonizing the solar system would be an aberration, for technical, logistical and sociological reasons. Whatever disaster affect our good old earth, it will still by far easier to live on our planet than on any other.

Given the time, funding, and technological advances to make the prepatory steps in terraforming the land of Mars, I do not rule that out as being a negative, it may very well end up a successful, profitable venture for business, technology, and civilization.

The best evidence that human exploration of space is not profitable is that no private company has tried to do it, while the satellite market is increasingly private.

Human exploration of space requires a much larger amount of funding, to pay for the training, facilities for training, staff to run the operation, and so on. When humans enter the equation, costs skyrocket, it has yet to prove profitable, and hasn't been tried to an extent to determine that, while satellite operations are a whole different game.

Originally posted by Evakian
Given the time, funding, and technological advances to make the prepatory steps in terraforming the land of Mars, I do not rule that out as being a negative, it may very well end up a successful, profitable venture for business, technology, and civilization.


Give me one, just one, rational reason to colonize another planet.

Because we couldn''t live anymore on earth ?
As i said before, even a terrible disaster would still let earth more welcoming for human beings than any other planet.
Terraforming is a pleasant speculation but it is hardly realistic. Even if it was scientifically possible, economical and ecological rationality would (hopefully) prevent it

For demographic reasons ?
There is enough room in the Sahara, Australia, Antarctic or even the Pacific ocean to colonize these places first.

For industrial/scientific reasons ? Even in the case where human beings would be absolutely necessary, it would not be real colonization, more something like offshore platforms (like in the movie Outland)

Originally posted by astrapol2
Give me one, just one, rational reason to colonize another planet.

Making use of the natural resources present there
Researching the enviroment to develop new technologies, medicines, and so on
It would provide a place for surplus human population to live

Because we couldn''t live anymore on earth ?

Earth can't last forever, it is going to experience a great many problems as we continue to perpetuate our existence here.

As i said before, even a terrible disaster would still let earth more welcoming for human beings than any other planet.

That appears to be rather obvious that Earth is more fitting for us than other planets.

Terraforming is a pleasant speculation but it is hardly realistic.

With the advances made decades from now, that statement will lose its pertinence.

Even if it was scientifically possible, economical and ecological rationality would (hopefully) prevent it

Why is that? What reason do you have for being adamantly against space exploration? The resources to be gathered, advances to be made, and room to grow is enormous. There is no reason why we shouldn't begin making plans such as those.

For demographic reasons?
There is enough room in the Sahara, Australia, Antarctic or even the Pacific ocean to colonize these places first.

Antartica, and much of the Sahara and Australia hardly prove to be decent land to have humanity there in appreciable numbers. Conditioning the enviroment somehow in order to have us fit there, however reasonable, may have drastic effects on the enviroment here on Earth. Now, before we were to move masses of humanity and technology to other planets, it would be very sensible to spread out on Earth, we've no reason to go there now, or for another century even, but whose to say what will happen then. As the population rises rapidly, the world industrializes further, it is better to be prepared for such measures than not be, and space may serve as a refuge for humanity by the mid-next century or so.

For industrial/scientific reasons ? Even in the case where human beings would be absolutely necessary, it would not be real colonization, more something like offshore platforms (like in the movie Outland)

I am not saying we should taverse the depths of space immediately, making some pseudo-Star Trek world, mainly since that is an impossibility, but also because there is little need to. Earth has more than enough food for everyone to thrive on right now, Earth has more than enough space for everyone to thrive on, Earth has more than enough resources for everyone to thrive on, even as we grow faster and faster, but far down the road, make that far, far down the road, humanity will begin to look to the skies for a new way to challenge its borders.

Astrapol

Thanks for correcting my misinformation about Teflon. I always thought it was a byproduct of the space program.

The population is going to continue to explode. We need to explore the colonization of other planets in order for humanity to not completely smother itself on planet Earth.

Originally posted by Evakian

I am not saying we should taverse the depths of space immediately, making some pseudo-Star Trek world, mainly since that is an impossibility, but also because there is little need to. Earth has more than enough food for everyone to thrive on right now, Earth has more than enough space for everyone to thrive on, Earth has more than enough resources for everyone to thrive on, even as we grow faster and faster, but far down the road, make that far, far down the road, humanity will begin to look to the skies for a new way to challenge its borders.

OK, I think we agree on that. That was my point.
If human colonization of space occurs one day, maybe in centuries, it does not really make sense now.

Am I "adamantly against space exploration" ? Not at all. Like everyone, I like to dream about it. I just think it's not realistic now, for the reasons I explained.

I also believe we (human beings) should focus on solving our planet's problems rather than believing that we can waste our good old arth resources and then emigrate somewhere else.

I am against the idea of "terraforming" other planets, though, for ethical reasons. We'ne been messing enough with our world, we should be more careful with other planets !