What's with this guy? He's really shaking everybody up with his anti-Israel remarks and Holocaust denials and such.

I think he must have a death wish for that country because sooner or later somebody (probably Israel) will launch their bombers on a pre-emptive strike and who can blame them?

This creep cannot be allowed to pursue the nuclear bomb.

Suicide by speech.

maybe the UN will stop him :rolleyes:

He is just saying publicly what many in the Arab and Moslem world believe.

When you think of it, it was a bit unfair of the Europeans to assuage their guilt by taking someone else's land and giving it away. While he is definitely a virulent anti-Semite he does have a point when he asks why they didn't take some of their own territory and give it up to form the State of Israel.

Originally posted by Theragtopguy
What's with this guy? He's really shaking everybody up with his anti-Israel remarks and Holocaust denials and such.

I think he must have a death wish for that country because sooner or later somebody (probably Israel) will launch their bombers on a pre-emptive strike and who can blame them?

This creep cannot be allowed to pursue the nuclear bomb.

LOL -- This isn't the same Iran that fought Iraq 15-20 years ago. They are well equipped to take on Israel -- the damage from a blitzkreig, USA-type-pre-emptive strike notwithstanding.

OTOH -- Israel is the same as always ... they only know how to fight by striking first and striking completely helpless people like those in Jenin. I'd like to see them on defense and it just might happen.

Also - Russia, China and I believe Brasil are all heavily invested in Iran these days. Israel had better have some super good diplomacy going or there might not be an Israel. ROTF.

becasue Israel is where Israel is. as far back as time goes it has been israel, in the grand scheme of things the muslims have ony had it for a short time.

http://www.protestwarrior.com/nimages/signs/thumb/pw_sign_22.gif

That's simply not so, Trav. There has been an Arab presence in the area since at least the fall of Constantinople in 1453 and actually much earlier than that.

Using your logic we should give southern Spain back to the Moors and England back to the Germanic Angles and Saxons because at one time they lived in the area.

Israel will strike Iran's nuclear facilities if they see the risk become unacceptable.

There is nothing much Iran could do in response. They talk loud but have nothing much to back it up.....until they get Nuclear weapons, which would be a disaster. I cannot imagine the US / Israel will allow that to happen.

Originally posted by DrewM
Israel will strike Iran's nuclear facilities if they see the risk become unacceptable.

There is nothing much Iran could do in response. They talk loud but have nothing much to back it up.....until they get Nuclear weapons, which would be a disaster. I cannot imagine the US / Israel will allow that to happen.

Iran is limited in what they can do to stop an all-out air/missle strike from Israel. However, there are a couple of things to keep in mind.

Iran has bolstered their air defenses considerable over the last few years with the help of Russia, China and others ...

http://www.nti.org/e_research/profiles/Iran/Missile/2420.html

She does have air defense capabilities and will use them. Therefore, Israel will take some losses. It won't be free.

Also, anything of value in Iran or anything that cannot be rebuilt quickly is more than likely deeply buried or otherwise heavily shielded, making those items immune to the Israeli attacks. It will be cosmetic damage at best, notwithstanding the tremendous loss of life for the Iranians due to Israel having the same mindset as the United States ... being ... let's kill as many Iranians as possible while in the neighborhood.

The United States would surely be forced into helping the Israelis to make it a close to a massacre as possible and disable the Iranian forces. Iran's army is no lightweight operation. IIRC, they have a standing, trained, equipped army in the range or 450,000 making that force several times larger than american forces in Iraq. That army will certainly spill over the Iraq border in retaliation and there will be a blood bath if not a complete ass-kicking of the US forces. Rumsfeld simply f*cked up big time when the decided to go into Iraq on the cheap and this will be where it shows.

Additionally, Iran is equipped with the Russian made Sunburn (Moskit) missle ...

http://www.rense.com/general59/theSunburniransawesome.htm

considered to be the baddest-ass missle on the planet and unstoppable with anything the US has today. Among other things, Iran could use this missle to take out the shipping and shut down nearly all the oil leaving the middle east.

It is also rumored and probably likely that Iran now has the TOR missle system ...

http://www.defense-update.com/products/t/tor.htm

another piece of hardware that is unmatched by any other country.

There is also the possibility, as Drew mentions, of Israel going nuclear in which case, Russia and China would surely step in. There is no way that Putin could explain to his people why there is a nuclear cloud drifting in from Iran and covering Moscow. He certainly would have no other choice but to take out Israel to save the people of his country ... ditto China who could and would send in the ground troops to both Israel and Iraq to cleanup what's left ... that would be the end of our troops PERIOD unless, of course, we also went nuclear. I won't even mention the reaction of the interational community because between Russia and China they won't be needed.

http://www.upi.com/SecurityTerrorism/view.php?StoryID=20051122-055819-6609r

What bothers me the most is the nonchalance of the idea that Iran would be such an easy target. That meme has been driven by talk radio which looks at Iran as being the same country that fought Iraq 20 years ago - which is not the case as I've outlined above. Talk radio also brushes off the notion of fearing Russian built planes, missle and systems -- claiming they do not work or are not reliable. That is either an outright lie or just a lack of understanding of the new Russia. A few years back, Russia committed to building the best military hardware available and today's Russian products are as good as any country's and better than most and some say they are unequalled. There is a distinct reason countries are lined up to buy military hardware from Russia. If there is a knock on her hardware it would be the poor track record of supplying replacement parts. That problem has been solved due to Putin's move back toward the military-industrial complex, similar to the cold war and of course, China who will gladly make all the widgets needed.

I've said it before and you may be sick of hearing it but here it is again ...

Take Iran lightly at your own peril.

Some interesting links there Dop.

If Russia & China stepped in - then it would become very complex, but China has no interest in a war with the US - we are their main market. Russia has interest in Iran, but it's only in the range of a few billion $. We could write the Russians a check and they would not be quite so interested in Iran should hostilities occur.

Both China & Russia would certainly speak loudly against Israel and the US because they do not want the US sphere of influence extended any further in their backyard, but they would never step in militarily. They would have nothing much to gain & everything to lose. Iran is not that strategic for them vs their economy as a whole - which is highly dependant on the US. Iran may have a lot of soldiers - but they are no match for the US military which would utterly destroy their forces with probably less than 10 losses of US personel,

Now if Israel went nuclear - that would be a different story - but I cannot imagine any scenario beyond a nuclear strike on Israel where they would nuke Iran. I do believe that Iran would nuke Israel if they had the weapons & half an excuse to use them.

Funny how people are calling the head of Iran insane (which he may be) and agressive for saying that they will defend themselves in case of an attack. While Cheney had the Pentagon draw up plans for nuking Iran in case of another terrorist attack, EVEN IF IRAN WASN"T INVOLVED!
http://www.antiwar.com/orig/hirsch.php?articleid=8153

Of course much of this is at the behest of Israel. Need anyone forget that their figure heads routinly make audacious claims and they actually do have an undeclared stockpile of nuclear weapons.
http://www.forward.com/articles/7020

This is also about the oil market and dollar supremacy. This is an excellant article talking about such things. In 2000 Iraq had announced that it would be switching to the Euro as its standard as well.

Petrodollar Warfare: Dollars, Euros and the Upcoming Iranian Oil Bourse
http://www.energybulletin.net/7707.html

But there may be a problem to Israeli/American war plans. Pakistan actually has the bomb and is pledging to defend Iran.

Pakistan to stand by Iran in case of US aggression: Kasuri
http://www.jang.com.pk/thenews/dec2005-daily/18-12-2005/main/main11.htm

Oh yeah and on the holocaust heres a list of the continual (and official) reduction of the number of dead. Most people who are accused of "holocaust denial" do not deny that it existed but that far fewer people died then is officially believed. Therefore any of the people who came up with more accurate but lesser numbers could be tried under the BS anti-denial laws in europe. While many people did die to enforce an exact number through law is stupid.

http://www.rense.com/general62/auch.htm

People aren't calling him insane for saying Iran will defend themselves. They are saying he is insane because

- he said Isreal should be wiped off the map
- he said the holocaust didn't happen
- he said Israel should be moved to Europe or the US/Canada

Sounds pretty insane to me.

Originally posted by DrewM
Some interesting links there Dop.

If Russia & China stepped in - then it would become very complex, but China has no interest in a war with the US - we are their main market. Russia has interest in Iran, but it's only in the range of a few billion $. We could write the Russians a check and they would not be quite so interested in Iran should hostilities occur.

Both China & Russia would certainly speak loudly against Israel and the US because they do not want the US sphere of influence extended any further in their backyard, but they would never step in militarily. They would have nothing much to gain & everything to lose. Iran is not that strategic for them vs their economy as a whole - which is highly dependant on the US. Iran may have a lot of soldiers - but they are no match for the US military which would utterly destroy their forces with probably less than 10 losses of US personel,

Now if Israel went nuclear - that would be a different story - but I cannot imagine any scenario beyond a nuclear strike on Israel where they would nuke Iran. I do believe that Iran would nuke Israel if they had the weapons & half an excuse to use them.

As I said Drew, take Iran lightly ... that's fine with me. But if you think our military will steamroll over Iran and only take 10 losses, you're saddly mistaken and I pray that your attitude is not held by the civilians in the pentagon that run this current war.

Your understanding of the China-Russian-Iran pact couldn't be more off-base, particularily if you think we could buy-off Russia for a few billion. Those 3 countries are heavily engaged in partnering on several issues ... one being defense ...

http://www.atimes.com/atimes/China/GF04Ad07.html

as well as Russia's partnering with India-Pakistan-Iran natural gas pipelines and processing ...

http://www.mosnews.com/money/2005/12/13/iranpipeline.shtml

Russia and Iran have even entertained the idea of going maverick on OPEC and creating their own market ...

http://www.atimes.com/atimes/Central_Asia/DI27Ag01.html

which when coupled with the upcoming Iranian OIL bourse will clearly position Iran and Russia as the world leaders in energy, not to mention the new Iranian bourse will not be U.S. dollar centric which is the real danger and reason the US wants to invade Iran.

http://www.globalresearch.ca/articles/CLA410A.html

Also keep in mind Russia is building the nuclear power plants in Iran and she is heavily invested in them. Israel would surely need permission from Russia (foolish if otherwise) to go in and take them out which is highly unlikely to happen -- why would Russia allow their own plants to be bombed?

And Iran is also a buyer of Russia's military hardware ..

http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/world/europe/4500878.stm

China doesn't give a flying-F about the United States and would happy to see us get wiped off the face of the earth. Sure it's nice that we buy all her stuff but if the US wasn't in the picture, China would get along just fine. Although we're big buyers, we only represent 5% or less of the world's population. Not exactly what you call majority.

It won't be long and China will be the ONLY superpower and she knows it and there's nothing we can do about it, which she also knows.

Israel is crazy enough to go nuclear. Make no mistake about that. After seeing the atrocities of Jenin, I put nothing past the Israelis.

In a nutshell -- most of the world's civilized major countries have been partnering to protect themselves from the menace known as the United States. In a world war, as it stands today, it would be the US, Israel, UK (maybe), Australia (maybe), Japan (doubtful)and a handful of small countries against the entire world. IOW -- we would be F*cked.

Originally posted by Lungdop Philing
As I said Lionel, take Iran lightly

You mean Drew . . .

Originally posted by LionelHutz
You mean Drew . . .

Yes, I meant Drew -- apologies -- fixed.

People aren't calling him insane for saying Iran will defend themselves. They are saying he is insane because
- he said Isreal should be wiped off the map
- he said the holocaust didn't happen
- he said Israel should be moved to Europe or the US/Canada Sounds pretty insane to me.

1. Israel has repeatedly tried to wipe palistine off the map. Many Zionists refuse to even use the name. The Iran guy is crazy

2. He's saying that much of it is propaganda lies. IE: 6 million jews etc...It is propaganda lies. If you follow my link even the holocaust museum says 1.5 million and they are even considering halving that number due to research.

3. Israel should have been located in Germany in the first place. He is pointing out that the creators of Israel are insane themselves to displace an entire country/peoples.

And again I never said he wasn't insane. I'm just pointing out his motivations. He's acting ass a mirror for the insanity that has preceeded this BS.

Now today apparently he has outlawed western music.

This guy is a real had case and very scary if he gets the bomb.

More Islamic swine.

how woul you wipe palestine off the map I wonder? seeing as palestine is not nor ever has been a country, only a geographic region.

Originally posted by Travh20
how woul you wipe palestine off the map I wonder?

Nukes! :D

If this creep keeps it up, he'll be getting nuked--by Israel.

I guess this is a product of democracy in the Middle East. Better be careful what one wishes for--if people can elect who they want we may end up with Islamofascists running these countries.

I'll bet that Iran shelters Al-quaeda swine also.

Originally posted by Theragtopguy
I guess this is a product of democracy in the Middle East.

Iran is hardly the poster boy for true democracy. The religous types dictate who can run for office, so it's not like they have a wide variety of candidates to chose from.

Iran wins big in Iraq's elections
http://www.atimes.com/atimes/Middle_East/GL20Ak01.html

Theres actually a large youth movement that opposes the theocracy in Iran. But hey the US would rather bomb them then utilize them...

thats not true, the US is behind the youth movement in Iran and supports them.

He just made "western music" illegal, just see how far it goes...

"I now deem it illegal to be nude under your clothes, fix this sin against Allah or go to jail!"-fictional Iranian President quote

::citizens begin putting on several layers of jackets::

"It's not working!!!"

Right but they aren't willing to wait it out because Iran is starting a new 'oil stock market' and they are going to use the Euro as the standard currency.