I was watching on CNN, that the MOAB (bomb) was being tested in Florida and that the hope was the Iraqi govt. would perhaps be intimidated by this. I dont even think most Iraqi's will even get to see this (govt. censorship and all). So I dont think it will help sway them.

I've had the opportunity to view the Daisy Cutter, a 15,000 lb bomb, with 12,600 lbs of explosives as used in Viet Nam. While known then as the Daisy Cutter, it was also called "instant LZ" (instant Landing Zone). When used in the jungle, these were impressive weapons. The new one, MOAB, features 18,000 lbs of explosives, and weighs in at 21,000 lbs. Something with that much explosive power should be able to rattle the Iraqui idiot's fillings no matter how deeply he buries himself under the desert. Hope just watching it gives him heart failure.

Yes. The "daisycutter" was precisely the weapon that allowed the USA to win quickly the vietnam war and to implant democracy in Far-East, as we all remember.

"Ding" wrong response!
The French have absolutely NOTHING.....I repeat NOTHING to say about the US involvement in Viet Nam. The French got themselves involved in a war there, were having their collective asses handed to them, and begged the US to yet again bail them out. This is not a defense of the war there, or the US involvement. I was there, I lived through the 60s & 70s, I've heard all the arguments for and against. The French need to keep their mouths shut whenever this subject comes up.

ES347
Sorry if I touched a sensitive nerve. I in no way intended to make fun of vietnam vets.
If France lost that war, USA did not win it, so maybe only a Vietnamese should be allowed to speak here ? They sure have things to say about being bombed.

It is funny that this argument of "french lost all their wars, so they should shut up" is used so frequently this days. I think a nation's legitimacy should lay more in democracy and human rights (in which France is far from perfect, I know, but USA not better) than in its military victories. Or North Korea would be the ultimate referee here.

Anyway you have to admit that the biggest bombs are far from ensuring a victory in a guerrilla-like environment - or in an urban war like it could be in Bagdad. Except atomic bombs maybe ?

While these weapons certainly do not guarantee victory, they are fun to watch. I've studied nukes (while in the military) and have no desire to see them used. They are probably the most devistating weapons ever devised--even more so, IMO, than bio/chem. Radiation stays around for centuries, bio/chem contamination goes away after a while, or can be removed and the the affected area used again.

Originally posted by es347fan
While these weapons certainly do not guarantee victory, they are fun to watch.
:(

Yep France tried it's hand in vietnam & was kicked out in 54 I think.

A lot of Iraq's see western news - so they will have seen the moab. Of course western news is not seen on state TV, but many have satellite dishes.

This type of weapon is just intended to intimidate - of course they would never use this on a city.

Astropol - you are so anti American, almost as much as I am am anti-French!

Just watch - France is once again going to look like the weak, worthless loser nation it always proves itself to be

Originally posted by es347fan
While these weapons certainly do not guarantee victory, they are fun to watch. I've studied nukes (while in the military) and have no desire to see them used. They are probably the most devistating weapons ever devised--even more so, IMO, than bio/chem. Radiation stays around for centuries, bio/chem contamination goes away after a while, or can be removed and the the affected area used again.

Be careful with your generalizations. Bio/chem weapons come in a lot more varieties than nukes. Anthrax is a good example of a bio/chem weapon that is VERY difficult to clean up. That's because anthrax bacteria have an special adaptation that allows them to produce "spores" which are basically dormant, ultra-resistant versions of the bacteria. These spores can last for over 50 years without sustanance....

Granted, the last formal training I had regarding these weapons was in 1975. As with every other type of weapon, they've benefited from great leaps in technology over the years.

Drew
I am not anti-american. I never made any anti-american generalisation in any of my posts ! Sure, I am critical. I don't like some of the things that were done by the USA. But I still like your country and the people who live there. This is precisely why I take some time to participate to this forum - I want to understand the reasons why most american people want war while in Europe most people are opposed to it. I do not believe that all americans are stupid or cynical - I know most of those who support war believe there are good reasons to do so. I think that talking about it is better than staying confortably isolated in each one's convictions.

By the way, while some idiots are selling "patriotic fries "or wasting good french wine in the USA, I have seen only very few anti-american bullshit in France. Anti-war, yes, anti-Bush, sure, but we never forgot that the american people are our friends and will remain so even through this crisis. I hope many intelligent people in the USA think the same.

I don't think it's correct to say that everybody in Europe is against it - I think the majority of people are unsure or undecided about it, but not totally against it.

It is also normal for people to be against war, especially because the history of war is an aggressor attacks another country & then a just war is fought to liberate. This is a new situation, in a changed world. This is about overcoming this miss-givings and desire to want to live in an illusitory situation & to take proactive action against a fundamental threat in this new world situation.

I totally agree with you that "freedom fries" and pouring french wine down the drain is totally stupid, but you shouldn't believe that the US is France's friend - friends don't stab other friends in the back. France has gone out of it's way to torpedo the US on this issue, not because they are against war, but because they want to establish France as having a role to play. The french government has exploited the normal ant-war feeling on the street & used it to legitimize a totally different agenda, when the US is the one putting young soldiers lives on the line & camped out in the desert. This force is what is driving any progress, if France also had 250,000 troops ready in the desert to enforce UN resolutions then I think they would have a greater credibility.

I don't think the people in the US have any hatred of the french, but there is very low regard & very low respect for the french, mainly because there is nothing in history that the US people can look to and respect france for. The French have just become the source of jokes and laughter. There is however a difference between generalizations and one-one interaction, which typically avoids any issue of someones nationality.

Although I think it is a stretch to call the US & France 'friends' - because they are not, of course the US and France will continue to work together on many issues in the future, but public opinion of the french may never recover.

Originally posted by DrewM

I don't think the people in the US have any hatred of the french, but there is very low regard & very low respect for the french, mainly because there is nothing in history that the US people can look to and respect france for.

How can you say "there is nothing in history that the US people can look to and respect france for"? That statement makes me wonder how much you know about history. The French played an integral role in America's independence and donated one of our greatest national symbols, the Statute of Liberty. If that doesn't earn some credit, then surely the Napolean era does. I mean, France conquered, ruled, and revolutionized the most civilized part of the planet for about a decade. I believe it was during this period that France sold us the Louisiana territory (You know, that gigantic swathe of territory that makes up like a fifth of our current land space). France played an integral role in WWII.

Just because the French been on the losing end of their last couple of wars shouldn't discount the respect they deserve.

er...sure

Yep they made the statue of liberty. Yep sure, the american people respect them for Napoleon. :rolleyes:

Ask 100 people on the street what they think of the French & you'll probably get 100 answers along the lines of ungrateful, weak nation.

Recent history (100 years) and current behavior by the frog government is doing nothing to enhance France's image in the U.S. In the long run, this oppositional stance toward the U.S. is going to hurt them where it really counts -- in the wallet. Regardless of how dumb it is to pour wine down the drain, (especially since it's already been paid for) you can bet it will be replaced with California, or Texas wine. This little political dance by some 3d rate politician is going to cost the frogs a metric ton of Euros.