New Murtha stuff:

I read The Slate, and while those here may laugh at the liberal bias... you have to hand it to them when they call Democrats out on bullshit. Great thing about The Slate is that because they are left leaning there's no "Right Wing Media" argument when they pound on a (D).

http://www.slate.com/id/2131597/&#murthavmurtha


Murtha vs. Murtha: Rep. Murtha on the prospects of an Iraqi civil war:

"There's a civil war going. We're caught in between a civil war right now. Our troops are the targets of the civil war. They're the only people that could have unified the various factions in Iraq. And they're unified against us." --ABC's This Week, 12/4/05

And then, same show, a few moments later.

"Why should I believe what the CIA says about what's happening in Iraq, that there's going to be a civil war? First of all, al Qaeda was wrong. It was wrong on the nuclear stuff. It was wrong on everything they have said over there. So why should I believe that there's going to be a civil war?"

hmmmmm


Rep. Murtha on whether the Iraqis will throw us out:

"The military won a military victory. They got rid of Saddam Hussein. ...[snip]... Now, it's got to be a political win. They have to win this politically. The Iraqis themselves. We'll stay there forever. The Iraqis are never going to say turn it over. We can't allow them to say when it's gonna turn it over.--This Week, 12/4/05"

and then.. same show, a few moments later

"You're gonna see the Iraqis clamoring. Listen, anybody we support in Iraq loses the election. And so they're gonna be clamoring for us to get out."

http://polo.imageg.net/graphics/product_images/pPOLO2-1807189_standard_v330.jpg

Murtha is a fool. He wants the troops withdrawn immediately without giving any thought to what that would mean. One of two things will happen if we withdraw precipitously; there will be a civil war, there will be a military dictatorship.

The initial stages of the war have been won and now is the time to engage in nation building. We probably should never have gone into Iraq but that is now beside the point. We cannot keep rehashing what we should or should not have done three years ago. It is what we should do now that is paramount.

We have managed to rebuild the Iraqi military to the point where they now patrol many of the cities on their own without American or coalition forces. They are now able to mount operations. We have not done the same on the political end. The Shia are still squabbling among themselves. They are not willing to power share with the Sunnis. They are not willing to make the tough decisions necessary to build a democratic nation. They are beginning to come around though. More and more Sunnis are saying give the government a chance. More and more Shias are willing to compromise. We must stay in Iraq until the government is in a position to control the military. This may well take years.

A precipitous withdrawal at this time will negate everything that has already happened. There should be a withdrawal but it should be a timed withdrawal, timed to the pace at which democratic institutions take hold in Iraq. Withdraw a brigade at a time as the Iraqis become more and more able to control their own destiny. Set no timetables and let the withdrawal be dictated by the pace of events in Iraq.

Originally posted by Frogger

there will be a civil war, there will be a military dictatorship.

so who gives a flying 'f' what happens ... let Israel take care of it.

now is the time to engage in nation building.

WTF? How long have you been an american? We don't nation build.

We probably should never have gone into Iraq but that is now beside the point.

Well, DUH! dude[ette] ... if it wasn't for murderers like you, we wouldn't have gone into Iraq and it's not beside the point now. You can't UNDO the killing of 100,000 innocent Iraquis and 2200 american troops.

It is what we should do now that is paramount

Oh yeah, this is a real tough one ... what to do now ... let me think ... um.... get the 'f' out of there wouldn't be one of the options would it?

We have managed to rebuild the Iraqi military

Without the american troops to hold thier hands, the Iraq military couldn't handle security at a TupperWare party.

We must stay in Iraq until the government is in a position to control the military. This may well take years.

And I'm sure you're gonna send your kids and grand kids to man the front line for all these years you speak about.

A precipitous withdrawal at this time will negate everything that has already happened.

'F' negate -- think positive ... it would save american toops lives. WTF? Do you enjoy seeing the troops being killed?

Just my dumb 2 cents -- ROTF

Murtha is a tired, easily confused man who means well, but is being used by his side. He has been an irrelevancy to the Democrats until now. He is their latest trial balloon just as Dick Durbin was before him. The difference is that since he's not a party leader, he'll be ignored again after they're done with him.

I feel bad for him.

That's the nature of being in public view. People just aren't evolutionarily built for that kind of social environment. Celebrity and the human response to it is something that fascinates me to no end.

These days its so much easier for a person to have his/her life completely uprooted by the fact that some blog somewhere mentioned him/her in passing, and the readership took an interest.

Looking at the whole Cindy Sheehan thing and her response to sudden celebrity was very sobering. It must be impossible to keep a level head with so much going on around you. She just couldn't handle being in the limelight, and probably self-sabotaged herself on purpose just so she could have a relatively quiet life once more.

Great thing about The Slate is that because they are left leaning there's no "Right Wing Media" argument when they pound on a (D).

If they are pounding on a Democrat, doesn't that mean there is no "Left leaning" argument either?