And of course Mr. Freethinker's and Charles Sullivan's new hero ......*L*.

http://today.reuters.com/news/newsarticle.aspx?type=topNews&storyid=2005-12-08T171212Z_01_RID850121_RTRUKOC_0_US-MIDEAST-IRAN-AHMADINEJAD.xml&rpc=22

Iran's President Questions Holocaust

By: Paul Hughes

TEHRAN (Reuters) - Iran's President Mahmoud Ahmadinejad on Thursday expressed doubt that the Holocaust occurred and suggested Israel be moved to Europe.

http://images.washtimes.com/photos/full/20050627-021712-2575.jpg

His comments, reported by Iran's official IRNA news agency from a news conference he gave in the Saudi Arabian city of Mecca, follow his call in October for Israel to be "wiped off the map", which sparked widespread international condemnation.

"Some European countries insist on saying that Hitler killed millions of innocent Jews in furnaces and they insist on it to the extent that if anyone proves something contrary to that they condemn that person and throw them in jail," IRNA quoted Ahmadinejad as saying.

"Although we don't accept this claim, if we suppose it is true, our question for the Europeans is: is the killing of innocent Jewish people by Hitler the reason for their support to the occupiers of Jerusalem?" he said.

"If the Europeans are honest they should give some of their provinces in Europe -- like in Germany, Austria or other countries -- to the Zionists and the Zionists can establish their state in Europe. You offer part of Europe and we will support it."

Historians say six million Jews were killed in the Nazi Holocaust. Ahmadinejad's remarks drew swift rebukes from Israel and Washington.

Raanan Gissin, a spokesman for Israeli Prime Minister Ariel Sharon, said in Tel Aviv that Ahmadinejad was voicing "the consensus that exists in many circles in the Arab world that the Jewish people ... do not have the right to establish a Jewish, democratic state in their ancestral homeland".

"Just to remind Mr. Ahmadinejad, we've been here long before his ancestors were here," Gissin said. "Therefore, we have a birthright to be here in the land of our forefathers and to live here. Thank God we have the capability to deter and to prevent such a statement from becoming a reality."

White House spokesman Scott McClellan said: "It just further underscores our concerns about the regime in Iran and it's all the more reason why it's so important that the regime not have the ability to develop nuclear weapons."

ONCE ALLIES

Religious hardliners in Iran do not publicly deny the Holocaust occurred but say its scale has been exaggerated to justify the creation of Israel and continued Western support for it.

Close allies when Iran was ruled by the U.S.-backed Shah, Iran and Israel have become implacable foes since Iran's 1979 Islamic revolution.

Israel accuses Iran of giving arms and funding to militant Palestinian groups such as Islamic Jihad and of building nuclear weapons. Iran denies the charges.

Tehran calls Israel a "terrorist state" and has developed missiles which can reach it. It says it would use them if Israel, itself believed to be nuclear-armed, tried to bomb Iranian nuclear facilities.

Earlier in his remarks, the Iranian president, a former Revolutionary Guardsman who won a surprise election victory in June, said:

"The question is, where do those who rule in Palestine as occupiers come from? Where were they born? Where did their fathers live? They have no roots in Palestine but they have taken the fate of Palestine in their hands.

"Isn't the right to national self-determination one of the principles of the United Nations charter? Why do they deprive Palestinians of this right?"

Jews trace their roots in Israel back to Biblical times.

Ahmadinejad concluded his remarks by reiterating Iran's proposal that the Israeli-Palestinian conflict be resolved via a referendum of all the inhabitants of Israel, Gaza and the West Bank as well as Palestinian refugees in neighboring countries.

"Whatever they decide will be accepted by all humanity. This is a clear democratic solution which is based on international principles," he said.

(Additional reporting by Jeffrey Heller in Jerusalem)


Slim

I have an Aunt, who claims to be a Christian and she likes to argue that the Holocaust was a fabrication as well...never happened. She forwards me e-mails, trying to convert me to her way of thinking.....even racial, disgusting opinionated journals about the hurricane Katrina victims and how God was cleaning up. :mad: She may be my aunt, but even she isn't spared from my responses.

Anyway, my point being....there're just as many ignorant Christians who think a lot like the Iranian Prez as there are Muslims who share his views. Actually, probably even more if we go according to the average per capita.

Does your aunt say .....Israel should be ........."wiped off the map" .....??

Slim

Originally posted by slim
Does your aunt say .....Israel should be ........."wiped off the map" .....??

Slim

Probably, if I let her continue her thought process before shutting her up. She's scary! She looks like this innocent little old lady, but she has a lot of strange thoughts.

So she doesn't say that ....as far as you know.

Does your aunt say ......Israel shouldn't have the right to exist .....and ...will not recognize them as a legitimite middle eastern society ..........??


Slim

Originally posted by slim
So she doesn't say that ....as far as you know.

Does your aunt say ......Israel shouldn't have the right to exist .....and ...will not recognize them as a legitimite middle eastern society ..........??


Slim

What is this, court??? She most certainly doesn't acknowledge Israel's right to exist. I think she's hung up on the holiness of that area....like it belongs to Christians or something. :rolleyes:

Is your aunt trying to obtain nuclear devices .....against international standards.......??


Slim

hey she-devil... don't label christianity with something just because your cooky grandma claims something.... thanks.

Originally posted by slim
Is your aunt trying to obtain nuclear devices .....against international standards.......??


Slim

Well, I hear that she did try to separate your isotopes but you weren't up to standards. :D

Originally posted by Decka
hey she-devil... don't label christianity with something just because your cooky grandma claims something.... thanks.

I'm not labelling Christianity. All I said was, there are just as many radical Christian thinkers as Muslim ones.

OK then ...........


Slim

Originally posted by slim
And of course Mr. Freethinker's and Charles Sullivan's new hero ......*L*.

I do not know if Mahmoud Ahmadinejad is one of Charles Sullivan's "heroes", but in my case I can categorically state that you are LYING.

Let me make sure you understand that, you worthless POS.

You are a L-I-A-R.

Now........to the topic at hand.

You alledge that Iran's President Mahmoud Ahmadinejad is **The new Hitler**.

Interesting allegation.

As far as I am aware, Ahmadinejad has not murdered thousands of people in the interest of gaining control of global power. Maybe you could expand a bit on what acts Mahmoud Ahmadinejad has committed that would cause him to be thought of as a "new Hitler".

I can, however, immediately think of two people who HAVE murdered many thousands of people in the interest of gaining global control.

(Mahmoud Ahmadinejad is not one of those two names.)

The two i'm thinking of are; Adolph Hitler, and a certain smirking imbecile from Texas.

You praise the Iranian regime .....by supporting the words of Sullivan ....who also makes a plee for the rights of the State of Iran over the rights of the United States and Israel. Please don't say you don't. You have been glorifying and touting Sullivan since I have been in this forum.

Give Mahmoud Ahmadinejad time ............... with what he has sad about the State of Israel and the jewish people .......I'd say he thinks a lot like Hitler did ............and .......is well on his way.

Not even the hardliners in Iran deny the holocaust.

He was involved in the hostage taking of U.S. diplomats at the US Embassy in Tehran.

http://secularcaniranik.blogs.com/photos/uncategorized/mahmoud_ahmadinejad_hostages1b.jpg


Slim

slim, you must understand, Hitler himself could come back to life and take an anti-Bush stance and these zombies would defend him

Originally posted by slim
You praise the Iranian regime .....

Again, you are a L-I-A-R.

If what you say has ONE shred of truth, search all the posts I have ever made to these boards, and quote one word I have said in praise of the Iranian regime.

ONE word, slim. Ever.

ONE.

Originally posted by slim
...by supporting the words of Sullivan

Please quote here ONE word from Charles Sullivan's "Iron fisted America" article, or ONE word from any of Charles Sullivan's writings where he praises the current Iranian regime.

Simply arguing that another nation possesses human "rights" is very different than *praising* that nation's policial regime.

I'm beginning to think that you are not equipped even to handle that one simple concept....if you are not and cannot, it seems pointless trying to present any reasonable argument to you.

Originally posted by slim
Give Mahmoud Ahmadinejad time ............... with what he has sad about the State of Israel and the jewish people .......I'd say he thinks a lot like Hitler did

So, in your opinion, the fact that the "thinks like Hitler did" is justification for claiming he is a *new Hitler*.

It is amazing to me that you'll condemn one leader for purportedly *thinking like Hitler", while you steadfastly defend another leadership (the Conservafascist regime in control of America) for commiting some of the same types of actions Hitler commmited.

.

Originally posted by Decka
hey she-devil... don't label christianity with something just because your cooky grandma claims something.... thanks.

It's a lot more than one kooky granny earning Christianity the crazy label.

Originally posted by Travh20
slim, you must understand, Hitler himself could come back to life and take an anti-Bush stance and these zombies would defend him

Hitler would be more likely to hit up his old business partners, the Bush family for a loan.

Originally posted by Deepest Red
It's a lot more than one kooky granny earning Christianity the crazy label.

Exactly.

Decka is one of these people who, any time anything the slightest bit critical of religion is mentioned, immediately goes into full-tilt apologist mode with --"Well, those people YOU are talking about aren't real Christians, you see! They're all aberations! A few oddballs who we should never judge the religion by".

He would prefer we entirely ignore the fact that for every person here with a grandma like She-Devil's, there are a hundred OTHER grandmas, fathers, uncles, brothers-in-law, cousins, nieces and nephews out there in American society just as bat-shit fundamentalist [read; bigoted and ignorant] as the grandma.

_____________________________

""Freedom of thought is essential to a democracy and deadly to an organized religion. Hence we see in modern American society ---with it's pathological hatred for free thought and it's unflaging promotion of blind "faith"--- the continuing decline of democracy and the incessant promotion of religious belief.""

Yeah, that's always their excuse - those are just the fringe. Nevermind that the craziest ones out there are often the ones who climb to the top, like Bush or Robertson.

I often wonder how historians will look back on contemporary Christian behavior. How it's not only acceptable, but actually a career boost for a politician to say 'the voices in my head (God) told me to make war' and so on.

I can't wait until the enlightment finally takes hold...

its the same with communist russia. everytime it is mentioned that stalin and communist russia were evil the commies make sure to point out Russia and China and Vietnam and Cuba and all the others are not *REAL* communists states. In fact, not only are they not communist, they are right wing! The funny thing is these same people are quick to label all christians as crazy as whatever nutty christian happens to make the news simply for saying something nutty that particular day. More left wing hypocrisy, what else is new?

Changing the subject won't help you. Let's compare the two since you invited it. The attempts at building socialism have been occuring since basically 1871, with mixed success - some good some bad (defeating the nazis and dramatically raising living standards good; gulags and famines bad). Whereas Christianity has been habitually fucking up human society almost like clockwork for 2000 years.

There's no comparing the two, despite the massive flaws in communist movements hitherto. Empowering the working class to fight for its own interests and create a more rational society to meet human need isn't comparable to the medieval ignorance, stupidity and reactionary, even fascist politics of Christianity.

Originally posted by Freethinker
Exactly.

Decka is one of these people who, any time anything the slightest bit critical of religion is mentioned, immediately goes into full-tilt apologist mode with --"Well, those people YOU are talking about aren't real Christians, you see! They're all aberations! A few oddballs who we should never judge the religion by".

He would prefer we entirely ignore the fact that for every person here with a grandma like She-Devil's, there are a hundred OTHER grandmas, fathers, uncles, brothers-in-law, cousins, nieces and nephews out there in American society just as bat-shit fundamentalist [read; bigoted and ignorant] as the grandma.


You will get no argument from me, there are probably a hundred other grandmas out there who are so senile that they think that way....

but christianity is all about loving your enemy... and that is something most christians these days DO NOT do....