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bluestater3
12-06-2005, 12:22 AM
What Happened to Iraq's WMD: How politics corrupts intelligence
by Scott Ritter

Author of Iraq Confidential: The Untold Story of the Intelligence Conspiracy to Undermine the UN and Overthrow Saddam Hussein (http://www.nationbooks.org/book.mhtml?t=ritter)
Sunday, December 4, 2005


The recent exchange of vitriol between Republican and Democratic lawmakers over the issue of weapons of mass destruction in Iraq, and more specifically the disconnect between the intelligence data cited by the Bush administration as justification for invading Iraq and the resultant conclusion by the CIA that all Iraqi WMD had already been eliminated as early as 1991, has once again thrust the issue of the use of intelligence for political purposes front and center.

Democrats accuse the president and his supporters of deliberately misleading them and the American people about the nature of the Iraqi threat. Republicans respond that the Democrats are rewriting history, that all parties involved had access to the same intelligence data and had drawn the same conclusions. Typical of the Republican-led rebuttal are statements made by Sen. John McCain, R-Ariz., who noted that "every intelligence agency in the world, including the Russian, French, including the Israeli, all had reached the same conclusion, and that was that Saddam Hussein had weapons of mass destruction."

But this is disingenuous. The intelligence services of everyone else were not proclaiming Iraq to be in possession of WMD. Rather, the intelligence services of France, Russia, Germany, Great Britain and Israel were noting that Iraq had failed to properly account for the totality of its past proscribed weapons programs, and in doing so left open the possibility that Iraq might retain an undetermined amount of WMD. There is a huge difference in substance and nuance between such assessments and the hyped-up assertions by the Bush administration concerning active programs dedicated to the reconstitution of WMD, as well as the existence of massive stockpiles of forbidden weaponry.

The actions and rhetoric of the Bush administration were aided by the tendency by most involved to accept at face value any negative information pertaining to Hussein and his regime, regardless of the source's reliability. This trend was especially evident in Congress, responsible for oversight on matters pertaining to foreign policy, intelligence and national security.

One might be inclined to excuse lesser members of the legislative branch for such actions, given their lack of access to sensitive intelligence, but not so senior figures who sit on oversight committees, such as California Democratic Sen. Dianne Feinstein, who occupied a seat on the Senate Select Intelligence Committee. Today, Feinstein all-too conveniently "regrets" her vote in favor of war on Iraq, but defends her yes vote in 2002 by noting that "the intelligence was very conclusive: Saddam possessed biological and chemical weapons." This is a far different from the statement Feinstein made to me in the summer of 2002, when she acknowledged that the Bush administration had not provided any convincing intelligence to back up its claims about Iraqi WMD.

In contrast to Feinstein's actions, Sen. Bob Graham, a Florida Democrat who also sat on the Senate Select Intelligence Committee, noted in September 2002 that the Bush administration's decisions regarding Iraq had been made in the absence of a National Intelligence Estimate from the CIA. The CIA hastily rushed to produce such a document, but the resulting report appeared as much to be an example of intelligence being fixed around policy, as opposed to policy being derived from intelligence. Graham, his eyes opened by the seemingly baseless rush toward conflict in Iraq, voted no on the war. Feinstein and others, their eyes wide shut, voted yes.

The crux of the problem of this Iraqi WMD intelligence "failure" lies in the fact that the U.S. intelligence community and the products it produces are increasingly influenced by the corrupting influences of politics. The politicization of the intelligence community allows the process of fixing intelligence around policy to become pervasive, and the increasingly polarized political climate in America prevents any real checks and balances through effective oversight, leaving Americans at the mercy of politicians who have placed partisan politics above the common good. The recent overhaul of the U.S. intelligence community, which resulted in the creation of the national intelligence chief, only reinforces this politicization, because the new director reports directly to the president and is beyond the reach of congressional oversight.

The only true fix to the problems of intelligence that manifested themselves in the Iraqi WMD debacle is to depoliticize the process. The position of national intelligence chief should be a 10-year appointment, like that of the director of the FBI, and subject to the consent of Congress. Likewise, all intelligence made available to the president to make national security policy should be shared with select members of Congress, from both parties, so that America will never again find itself at war based upon politically driven intelligence. Finally, and perhaps most important, the American people should start exercising effective accountability regarding their elected officials, so that those who voted yes for a war based on false and misleading information never again have the honor and privilege of serving in high office.

Iraq Confidential: The Untold Story of the Intelligence Conspiracy to Undermine the UN and Overthrow Saddam Hussein by Scott Ritter, with introduction by Seymour Hersh. (http://www.nationbooks.org/book.mhtml?t=ritter)
URL: http://sfgate.com/cgi-bin/article.cgi?file=/c/a/2005/12/04/EDGQIF5U1L1.DTL
©2005 San Francisco Chronicle

Freethinker
12-06-2005, 01:39 AM
Originally posted by bluestater3
The only true fix to the problems of intelligence that manifested themselves in the Iraqi WMD debacle is to depoliticize the process. ...........the American people should start exercising effective accountability regarding their elected officials, so that those who voted yes for a war based on false and misleading information never again have the honor and privilege of serving in high office.

The rest of the *fix* would be that the highest officials in charge at the time, (Bush, Cheney and Rumsfeld) , who repeatedly made totally false and misleading statements to a gullible populace that Iraq posed an immediate and dire threat to the US, should be charged with both treason and crimes against humanity and if found guilty of either, executed.

Overdose
12-06-2005, 01:48 AM
WELL SADDAM STILL KILLED SO MANY PEOPLE!!!!! /sarcam

sedan
12-06-2005, 09:41 AM
Originally posted by Freethinker
The rest of the *fix* would be that the highest officials in charge at the time, (Bush, Cheney and Rumsfeld) , who repeatedly made totally false and misleading statements to a gullible populace that Iraq posed an immediate and dire threat to the US, should be charged with both treason and crimes against humanity and if found guilty of either, executed.
Now we know why you support the death penalty.

slim
12-06-2005, 09:45 AM
Now we know that ....freethinking ..........is limited only ...........to those ....."in charge at the time" .......*L*.

This is what you call ..........qualified freethinking .................


Slim

Travh20
12-06-2005, 09:52 AM
Lets release saddam and put him back in power. we have searched his country and he is clean. He is free to go.

slim
12-06-2005, 09:54 AM
I've actually heard some socialists say that .......*L*.

And ....the Democrat and ex-attorney general ...Ramsey Clark is arguing that point .........you can't make this stuff up.

As far as the WMD go ............I think they found 1800 lbs of refined uranium .......recently and .....I am not saying that is a nuclear device ......but it is definitely a precursor in the wrong hands.


Slim

Decka
12-06-2005, 12:21 PM
funny how overdose can make light of Saddam killing people... and then in the other post pretty much blame any gay kid killing himself on name-calling. If life is so precious... wait... i get it, just gay life is precious.

Lungdop Philing
12-06-2005, 12:48 PM
The WMD's were being planted when Plame, along with Dr. Kelly started getting a little too close to the operation.

Dr. Kelly was suicided and Plame was intentionally outed to ruin her CIA career.

Then Wilson called them to task and it became to hot to plant the WMD's.

Simple as that.

slim
12-06-2005, 03:15 PM
yeah .........I read that somewhere .........www.goofyshit.com


Slim

Travh20
12-06-2005, 03:38 PM
Originally posted by Lungdop Philing
The WMD's were being planted when Plame, along with Dr. Kelly started getting a little too close to the operation.

Dr. Kelly was suicided and Plame was intentionally outed to ruin her CIA career.

Then Wilson called them to task and it became to hot to plant the WMD's.

Simple as that.

LMAO, amazing how neatly it all ties together!

Freethinker
12-06-2005, 04:42 PM
Originally posted by slim
Now we know that ....freethinking ..........is limited only ...........to those ....."in charge at the time" .......*L*.

Correction; I made no suggestion that "only" the people named above be charged.

It seems more prudent from a legalistic standpoint to begin by charging the people at the highest levels of power..........and then extend the criminal investigations as far as is necessary to include all lower level operatives that may have been involved.

Now; does THAT better fucking explain the goddamned position to you, Einstein?!?!?!

Originally posted by slim
This is what you call ..........qualified freethinking ................Slim

While the "thinking" that you exhibit here daily would seem better explained by your possibly suffering some form of mental retardation.

slim
12-06-2005, 04:46 PM
No .....I was referring to ...probably your own senators and representatives .....and ...........maybe even past administrations and their appointies.

Some how you fail to recognize that they had the same views you are now condemning ............of the folks ..."in charge at the time".

Somehow it seemed as if you were qualifying only these folks ........"in charge at the time".


Slim

Freethinker
12-06-2005, 05:10 PM
Originally posted by slim
No .....I was referring to ...probably your own senators and representatives .....and ...........Slim

Oh, I fully agree that they too are culpable, and my disdain for what they did (in agreeing to going into a war based purely on lies) is nearly as great as the disdain I have for the ringleaders.

I just don't think it will be possible to drag every single one of them (those who went along with this war) into court on a charge of treason/crimes against humanity.

If you think i am defending those spineless appeasers the Democrats on this you are way off base.

Darth Be'lal
12-06-2005, 05:11 PM
Garbage, all of it!


The intelligence services of everyone else were not proclaiming Iraq to be in possession of WMD. Rather, the intelligence services of France, Russia, Germany, Great Britain and Israel were noting that Iraq had failed to properly account for the totality of its past proscribed weapons programs, and in doing so left open the possibility that Iraq might retain an undetermined amount of WMD.


Gee, first off, Saddam isn't the most truthful person in the world, neither are his henchmen. Remember Baghdad Bob, the Hussein toady who sat atop a building in downtown Baghdad and proclaimed that the Americans were being defeated, and in the background, you can see U.S. M-1 A1 Abrams main battle tanks cruising into Baghdad. Good God, when people lie on that particular, are you guys really going to believe them when they say they don't have WMDs? I haven't even covered the banned conventional weapons and terrorist training camps that WERE found upon the invasion of Iraq, dammit.


Today, Feinstein all-too conveniently "regrets" her vote in favor of war on Iraq, but defends her yes vote in 2002 by noting that "the intelligence was very conclusive: Saddam possessed biological and chemical weapons."

What Feinstein, Kerry, Ghenghis Hillary are really regretting is that the Iraq war keeps see-sawing and they are desperately trying to get on the most politically expediant side to capture the most votes. If the Iraq war goes well, they can claim to have backed Bush, done the right thing and gotten rid of a terrible Mid Eastern tyrant. If the Iraq war doesn't go well, THEN they can join the Howard Dean and the moveon.org set, say that Bush was fixing the Intel, the war was evil, rotten, terrible blah, blah, blah and send the troops home right this minute. With the Democrats it's politics first, action later, dammit.

The only true fix to the problems of intelligence that manifested themselves in the Iraqi WMD debacle is to depoliticize the process.

For ONCE, this jerk, Ritter, has a point. Instead of Departments of Homeland security and massive beauracracies and constant nit picking over methods of gathering intelligence, why don't we just let the CIA, the FBI, the NSA and God knows who the hell else is out getting intelligence do their damn job and share their God-damned info. It would be nice if we got our borders secured as well as keeping tabs on foreigners coming to visit the U.S., dammit.

Napsterbater
12-06-2005, 05:59 PM
While the "thinking" that you exhibit here daily would seem better explained by your possibly suffering some form of mental retardation.

Every time he writes a string of periods, I imagine he's actually going, "Durrrhhh...", and slapping his chest with his hands.

I know, I know, I'm going to hell.

Napsterbater
12-07-2005, 06:05 AM
Originally posted by Decka
funny how overdose can make light of Saddam killing people... and then in the other post pretty much blame any gay kid killing himself on name-calling. If life is so precious... wait... i get it, just gay life is precious.

One day, you might understand what it's like to be part of a group of people and fight for their acceptance into society, but right now, you just sound like a dumbass.

Vilepagan
12-07-2005, 06:40 AM
Originally posted by Decka
If life is so precious... wait... i get it, just gay life is precious.

No Decka, I'd have to say you don't get it at all...

Decka
12-07-2005, 01:29 PM
Originally posted by Vilepagan
No Decka, I'd have to say you don't get it at all...

With all do respect... you are right.. i don't get why gay people are special, why they should get special consideration, and why they are so pissy at anyone who thinks otherwise.

I absolutely don't get it.

Lungdop Philing
12-07-2005, 01:34 PM
Originally posted by Freethinker
Oh, I fully agree that they too are culpable, and my disdain for what they did (in agreeing to going into a war based purely on lies) is nearly as great as the disdain I have for the ringleaders.

I just don't think it will be possible to drag every single one of them (those who went along with this war) into court on a charge of treason/crimes against humanity.

If you think i am defending those spineless appeasers the Democrats on this you are way off base.

An important distinction shoud be made and it should be a sticky part of any thread that address the vote for or against the IWR.

Those who voted yes, did not vote for a war. They voted to give Bush the authority to go to war if he chose to. It was Bush's decision and Bush's decision alone that took us to war. Our involvement in Iraq lies directly on the shoulders of the president.

Travh20
12-07-2005, 01:34 PM
Originally posted by Napsterbater
One day, you might understand what it's like to be part of a group of people and fight for their acceptance into society, but right now, you just sound like a dumbass.


what group of people have you been with who have been fighitng for acceptance? Or are you just so enlightened you know what its like just from reading about it?

Freethinker
12-07-2005, 06:36 PM
Originally posted by Lungdop Philing
An important distinction shoud be made and it should be a sticky part of any thread that address the vote for or against the IWR.

Those who voted yes, did not vote for a war. They voted to give Bush the authority to go to war if he chose to.

A vote that was a despicable act in itself, given the fact that these goddamned simpering appeasers of the Republican warmongers (i'm talking about the spineless Democrats) knew FULL WELL that the operational rules of this nation were such that ONLY Congress is be granted that particular authority.

Evil Homer
12-07-2005, 08:34 PM
Hey! Look! A dead horse! *Takes out a pistol*


Do we reeealllly need to keep arguing about this in light of the fact, that even if the impossible idea that this issue is resolved, that it changes nothing?

Napsterbater
12-07-2005, 08:50 PM
This is the political forums, where we run the horse into the ground, beat it until its dead, continue on for a few more hours, get back on the horse and try to ride it again, then get pissed off when it doesn't move and start beating it yet again.

Vilepagan
12-07-2005, 09:43 PM
Originally posted by Decka
With all do respect... you are right.. i don't get why gay people are special, why they should get special consideration, and why they are so pissy at anyone who thinks otherwise.

I absolutely don't get it.

With all due respect to you, I don't get why you feel that way. Gay people aren't "special", that's the whole point. I don't want to be treated differently than you. I subscribe to no "gay agenda". I want no "special consideration". Do you get it now?

Freethinker
12-08-2005, 12:55 AM
Originally posted by Vilepagan
Gay people aren't "special", that's the whole point.

Excuse me, but aren't you the same moderator who castigated me and ridiculed me about two weeks ago for making posts in a thread that had nothing to do with the topic of the thread??

;)