Originally posted by ConservativeMan
You know Jesus was the only one who had prophecies surrounding his coming.

Entirely false. Jewish scriptures mention the coming of "another prophet" like Moses, and the Elijah's return from heaven. Moslems await the Mahdi, or the Meseeh. Krishna promised to return many times throughout the ages. Buddha allowed as how he wasn't the first, and that a more "enlightened" one would follow. Zoroastrian prophecies foretell the coming of a "world-renovator". For Native Americans, the messiah is portrayed as a bearded white male who will restore the "hoop of unity". Almost every religion contains prophesies of the coming of a "promised one". It's rather ironic that you would claim as a unique trait to Christianity the one thing that almost all religions have in common.


It is not what I believe, if it were I could be wrong.

It's what you "believe" because you have no proof. Just faith. And you might be wrong, you just won't admit it.


As it stands Christ said it himself, He is the only way. We know through proper exegetical examination and historical data and critical examination that Christ was in fact who he said he was.

There is no "historical" evidence that Jesus even existed....what data are you referring to?


Again a theological discussion that probably belongs in the religion forum, if you wanted to take it there I would oblige you.

ok..(post copied as a new thread in Religion)

(copied from other thread:)

A great another brainwashed Christian who hasn't bothered to read his bible.

http://www.biblegateway.com/passage...context=chapter

6John wore clothing made of camel's hair, with a leather belt around his waist, and he ate locusts and wild honey. 7And this was his message: "After me will come one more powerful than I, the thongs of whose sandals I am not worthy to stoop down and untie. 8I baptize you with[d] water, but he will baptize you with the Holy Spirit."
The Baptism and Temptation of Jesus
9At that time Jesus came from Nazareth in Galilee and was baptized by John in the Jordan. 10As Jesus was coming up out of the water, he saw heaven being torn open and the Spirit descending on him like a dove. 11And a voice came from heaven: "You are my Son, whom I love; with you I am well pleased."

12At once the Spirit sent him out into the desert, 13and he was in the desert forty days, being tempted by Satan. He was with the wild animals, and angels attended him.
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It says the same thing in all 4 books. John says Jesus will baptize them in the holy spirit. And the holy spirit decends upon Jesus when he is baptized. It's as plain as day. The holy spirit was already present on Earth before Jesus' death. Therefore the next to come was either Muhammed or someone who hasn't come yet(kinda like the Jews with Jesus wouldn't you say?) But it definatly is not the holy spirit.

Post from ConMan:

Yeah 500lbgorilla, I am just another brainwashed Christian who does not read my Bible. If that were true then why do I have the word Reverend before my name? I think I know just a bit about Biblical context and history having went to seminary and got ordained.

I'm ordained too.

But hey you may convince me otherwise with your knowledge of the bible if you even bother to respond to my points instead of waving around your ordination like it makes you automatically right.

Originally posted by 500lbguerilla
I'm ordained too.
As am I.

Originally posted by 500lbguerilla
I'm ordained too.

So am I, very much so, last time i measured it was about...oh, oh ORDAINED...nevermind...

well then why do we not act like we are?

I do not see how ordained ministers can hate the faith that ordained them? Are you Christian ministers?

I was also saying that this is out of context, the Holy Spirit came on one person, as in the old testament before Christ ever came. The kings of Israel did in fact have the Holy Spirit but the Holy Spirit could leave and dwell within another. As the in case of Saul and David. Now while it is true that the Holy Spirit was with and in Christ during his ministry it was not in all men. After Jesus's Death, burial and Resurrection and ascention he said that he must leave because another would come. The other that is spoken of is the Paraklete or the Comforter otherwise known as the Holy Spirit. Now this changed from the spirit being only to one person but also as a sealing agent, thus at the time of salvation sealing the person unto God. Now the Spirit will dwell in all saved people.

Originally posted by ConservativeMan
I do not see how ordained ministers can hate the faith that ordained them?
Wait, who said I hated Christianity?
Are you Christian ministers?
I was ordained by the Universal Life Church (http://www.ulc.org).

Originally posted by BorgHunter


I was ordained by the Universal Life Church (http://www.ulc.org). On that site you became ordained on, it states they accept people of all "religions". What religion do you have faith in?

After Jesus's Death, burial and Resurrection and ascention he said that he must leave because another would come. The other that is spoken of is the Paraklete or the Comforter otherwise known as the Holy Spirit. Now this changed from the spirit being only to one person but also as a sealing agent, thus at the time of salvation sealing the person unto God. Now the Spirit will dwell in all saved people. You're still ignoring my post. The bible said that Jesus would baptise people with the holy spirit. He did not baptize people after he was dead. Therefore the Holy spirit was already present before he died.

Also please cite (from the bible) your source when making such claims.

Originally posted by HaVoK
On that site you became ordained on, it states they accept people of all "religions". What religion do you have faith in?
I don't. Now, when you stop being a semantic, anal little mofo, please let me know.

Originally posted by BorgHunter
I don't. Now, when you stop being a semantic, anal little mofo, please let me know. A little touchy on that subject? I just asked a simple question, fucknutz.

Where does it say that 500? Please cite verse and context.

Originally posted by Vilepagan
For Native Americans, the messiah is portrayed as a bearded white male who will restore the "hoop of unity".

I asked an Ojibwe friend of mine what he thought of this and he said it sounded like something a smart native might say to a bearded white man with a fire-stick.

Originally posted by HaVoK
A little touchy on that subject? I just asked a simple question, fucknutz.
Are you sure you're 36?

Originally posted by BorgHunter
Are you sure you're 36? Yes.

http://www.biblegateway.com/passage/?book_id=49&chapter=3&version=31&context=chapter
Luke 3
15The people were waiting expectantly and were all wondering in their hearts if John might possibly be the Christ. 16John answered them all, "I baptize you with[c] water. But one more powerful than I will come, the thongs of whose sandals I am not worthy to untie.[b] He will baptize you with the Holy Spirit and with fire. 17His winnowing fork is in his hand to clear his threshing floor and to gather the wheat into his barn, but he will burn up the chaff with unquenchable fire." 18And with many other words John exhorted the people and preached the good news to them.
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http://www.biblegateway.com/passage/?book_id=50&chapter=3&version=31&context=chapter
John 3
31"The one who comes from above is above all; the one who is from the earth belongs to the earth, and speaks as one from the earth. The one who comes from heaven is above all. 32He testifies to what he has seen and heard, but no one accepts his testimony. 33The man who has accepted it has certified that God is truthful. 34For the one whom God has sent speaks the words of God, for God[k] gives the Spirit without limit. 35The Father loves the Son and has placed everything in his hands. 36Whoever believes in the Son has eternal life, but whoever rejects the Son will not see life, for God's wrath remains on him."[l]
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http://www.biblegateway.com/passage/?book_id=48&chapter=1&version=31&context=chapter
Mark 1
7And this was his message: "After me will come one more powerful than I, the thongs of whose sandals I am not worthy to stoop down and untie. 8I baptize you with[d] water, but he will baptize you with the Holy Spirit."
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http://www.biblegateway.com/passage/?book_id=47&chapter=3&version=31&context=chapter
Matthew 3
11"I baptize you with[b] water for repentance. But after me will come one who is more powerful than I, whose sandals I am not fit to carry. He will baptize you with the Holy Spirit and with fire. 12His winnowing fork is in his hand, and he will clear his threshing floor, gathering his wheat into the barn and burning up the chaff with unquenchable fire."

Ok as for baptism of the Spirit, the Holy Spirit was in reality the catalyst of the virgin birth, this supports what I have said before in Kings and Samuel when the Holy Spirit comes and goes as it pleased when it came and left leaders of Israel in the OT. Secondly the HS came upon Christ AFTER his baptism.

All the verses you point out, in context point to salvation. Look at Acts chapter 1. Pentecost was tounges, Holy Spirit and fire.

[QUOTE]Originally posted by ConservativeMan
[B]Ok as for baptism of the Spirit, the Holy Spirit was in reality the catalyst of the virgin birth.
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Read where some folks think the virgin birth was performed by space men by artificial insimination. Gods from the sky, technology to perform seemingly miricles, like healing the sick.
Oh well, quess they are intitled to their beliefs too.

LoL @ Dan

So you ask me for quotes, context and links then merely respond to such with a passing reference...do better or consider yourself wrong.

Originally posted by Dan Fussell
Read where some folks think the virgin birth was performed by space men by artificial insimination.

Ahh yes, The Sacred Space Juice...

Prove it. I am just explaning what is interpreted and passage chapters that support what I am saying. So prove me wrong.

Where does it say that 500? Please cite verse and context. Follow your own damn requests your hypocrite.

I can cite verse after verse and in context. I was asking where you were getting your information. I told you look at acts 1 for the appropriate contextual information. If you must also look at the last chapter of John to see the Holy Spirit in Christ as well. You will see for the last time Christ was on Earth and ascended the Spirit went with him and came back on the day of Pentcost. Also when Christ speaks in the Gospels of the Comforter coming, why would it need to come if it were already here.

CM, I was wondering if you could comment on the first post in this thread...that is, after all, why I posted it. :D

Originally posted by Dan Fussell
Read where some folks think the virgin birth was performed by space men by artificial insimination. Gods from the sky, technology to perform seemingly miricles, like healing the sick.

A group of space-faring extraterrestrials is an explanation which --while fantastic-- seems infinitely more believable than the religious one of --Well, uhh, this supernatural omnipotent deity did it magically!".

Look your making this more complicated then it should be.

Jesus said "I must go so another may come"

He could not have been referring to the holy spirit because the holy spirit had already come to earth while Jesus was there. You are trying to counter this by saying the holy spirit didn't stay or some such effect but that is besides the point. Jesus did not have to go for the holy spirit to decend to eath therefore he must have been talking about someone else.

...crickets....

Con Man you there?

Hello? you going to reply?