Yet again Israelis are evacuated before a suppossed Al Q bombing. How convienant. (just like in the london bombings)
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Scores dead in three Amman hotel bombings; Israelis evacuated before attack

By Yoav Stern and Zohar Blumenkrantz

Bombs rocked three hotels in Amman late last night, killing at least 57 people and wounding more than 115 in apparent suicide attacks. One of the hotels is known to be popular with Israeli tourists.

"There were three terrorist attacks on the Grand Hyatt, Radisson SAS and Days Inn hotels, and it is believed that the blasts were suicide bombings," police spokesman Major Bashir al-Da'aja told The Associated Press. He declined to elaborate.

There was no immediate claim of responsibility for the attacks.

A police official said the attacks were simultaneous and hit minutes before 9 P.M. in two districts in the Jordanian capital, including the commercial area of Jebel Amman and Al-Rabiyeh, which houses the Israeli Embassy.

A number of Israelis staying yesterday at the Radisson SAS were evacuated before the bombing by Jordanian security forces, apparently due to a specific security alert. They were escorted back to Israel by security personnel.

The Foreign Ministry stated yesterday that no Israeli tourists are known to have been injured in the blasts. Representatives of Israel's embassy in Amman were I contact with local authorities to examine any report of injured Israelis, but none were received. There are often a number of Israeli businessman and tourists in Amman, including in the hotels hit yesterday.

Israel's counter-terror headquarters yesterday recommended Israeli citizens not travel in Jordan. Travel recommendations regarding Jordan were tightened a few months ago, but many Israelis still visit the country. Many also visit other regions such as the Jordanian Arava and the ancient city of Petra.
http://www.haaretz.com/hasen/spages/643691.html

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Just another extremely conveinant coincidence I'm sure...
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Palestinian spy chief killed in blast

THE head of the Palestinian intelligence services, Bashir Nafeh, was among those killed in a blast that shook a hotel in the Jordanian capital, a top Palestinian diplomat said.
"Bashir Nafeh was killed in the attack on the Grand Hyatt hotel," charge d'affaires Atallah Khairy said.

At least 57 people were killed and up to 300 wounded in three successive attacks on the Radisson SAS, Grand Hyatt and Days Inn hotels this morning, Jordanian officials said.
http://www.news.com.au/story/0,10117,17199844-23109,00.html
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Oh and lets not forget the next day denials that Israelis were rescused from the blast...Just like in London...

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No truth to report of Israeli evacuations before Amman bombs

There is no truth to reports that Israelis staying at the Radisson SAS hotel in Amman on Wednesday were evacuated by Jordanian security forces before the bombing that took place there.

The Israelis were escorted back to Israel by Jordanian security personnel only after the attacks had taken place, contrary to earlier reports.

http://www.haaretz.com/hasen/spages/643661.html

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So 57 people killed at a popular resort (for everyone including Israelis) yet no Israelis killed and the Palistinians spy chief dead...

Are you suggesting that Israel set off the bombs?

They have before. The Lavon affair and the USS Liberty are striking and exhaustively proven examples. Blame Arabs was the motivation for both incidences.

At the very least they allowed it to happen. At the most they placed them themselves.

In the case of the USS Liberty, Israel outright attacked a U.S. Naval vessel. The Liberty was gathering intelligence on what was happening in the 1967 Arab-Israeli War. Israel had told the U.S. the day before to move the ship or it would be sunk. We didn't move it. They sunk it. Here is a good web site on the attack.

http://home.cfl.rr.com/gidusko/liberty/

Personally I think we should have responded to that attack by doing several things. First, we should have suspended all arms shipments to Israel immediately, even turning around the transport planes in the air. Second, we should have broken diplomatic relations with Israel. Third, we should have used the Sixth Fleet to send a message to Israel by eliminating all of the Israeli Naval forces. The torpedo attack boats that attacked the Liberty should have been sunk immediately. Any Israeli forces that came to their aid should have been engaged and destroyed. Israel should have been informed that committing acts of war against the United States, will result in war with the United States.

I totally agree with you on the U.S.S. Liberty, Imagineer.

They attacked it with unmarked planes. They wanted to sink the ship and blame it on Egypt.

I have nevere heard this statement:
"The Israeli's told us 24 hours before that we had a ship called the Liberty, and if we didn't move it they would sink it. Unfortunately, the ship was not moved and by the time the message arrived the ship was taking on water."

Its one of 2 things.

1. A lie. Why did it not come out till 2003? Why didn't the US warn the ship or ask them to move? Don't tell me that when a country threatens the US and its servicemen it doesn't respond as soon as possible.

2. US complicity in the attack. If the ship had been sunk it would be blamed on Egypt and give the US an excuse to join the war. The US has used this tactic before.

The second possiblity would also explain why absolutly nothing happened to Israel after the event.

Originally posted by 500lbguerilla
They attacked it with unmarked planes. They wanted to sink the ship and blame it on Egypt.

They also used 5 motor torpedo boats. They launched a number of torpedos at close range, one of which hit, and that was what sank the ship. Those same torpedo boats used machine gun fire on the sailors abandoning ship.


[i]I have nevere heard this statement:
"The Israeli's told us 24 hours before that we had a ship called the Liberty, and if we didn't move it they would sink it. Unfortunately, the ship was not moved and by the time the message arrived the ship was taking on water."

Its one of 2 things.

1. A lie. Why did it not come out till 2003? Why didn't the US warn the ship or ask them to move? Don't tell me that when a country threatens the US and its servicemen it doesn't respond as soon as possible.

2. US complicity in the attack. If the ship had been sunk it would be blamed on Egypt and give the US an excuse to join the war. The US has used this tactic before.

The second possiblity would also explain why absolutly nothing happened to Israel after the event. [/B]

It is possible that the message was not passed to the Defense Department in a timely manner. The State Department was the entity recieving the message, and they probably felt that if they sent a reply to the Israeli government that the issue wouldn't occur. It probably took some time, and by the time they realized that a diplomatic solution wouldn't work it was too late.
There was not only no need for the U.S. to enter the 1967 war because the Israelis were winning, but in fact we were trying to get the Israelis to stop taking territory. They were in a position where they could have seized Cairo, Damascus, and Amman. We were worried that might have brought in the Soviet Union, which was allied with both Syria and Eygpt as well as Iraq. This might also be why the State Department failed to pass on the warning. They were busy.
We did not want another war at that time. In 1967 we were heavily involved in Vietnam. Starting another war was not on the agenda. President Johnson was trying to balance an ambitous domestic agenda, Vietnam, and the upcoming 1968 elections. He did not need or want another war. It wouldn't have been popular with the voting public. Israel was acting in it's own interest by seizing Jerusalem, the West Bank, the Golan Heights, the Sinai, and Gaza. The puppet had slipped it's strings, and because we were afraid to act against them, they were doing what they wanted.
The time period before the truth came out is largely due to the coverup. Lies were told under orders, and under oath. That is perjury, and a violation of the UCMJ. Anyone who came forward could have been court martialled. The coverup has held for a long time, because it had to wait until the officers were retired, and indeed until the potentia loss of their retirement benifits was no longer a threat. It is coming out now because those involved do not want to die with this on their conciense.

The time period before the truth came out is largely due to the coverup. Lies were told under orders, and under oath. That is perjury, and a violation of the UCMJ. Anyone who came forward could have been court martialled. The coverup has held for a long time, because it had to wait until the officers were retired, and indeed until the potentia loss of their retirement benifits was no longer a threat. It is coming out now because those involved do not want to die with this on their conciense. Then why the coverup? Why wasn't Israel punished in any way what so ever?

Bomb in ceiling caused Jordan hotel blast - source

Updated: 2:39 p.m. ET Nov. 9, 2005

AMMAN - A blast at the Radisson hotel in the Jordanian capital Amman on Wednesday was caused by a bomb placed in a false ceiling, police sources at the scene told Reuters.

http://www.msnbc.msn.com/id/9980123/
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This was put out on the 9th. Now the Corporate media is saying it was suicide bombers...

The support of Jewish voters in the United States was considered vital for the re-election of our political leaders. If we had acted against them, it would have cost votes. This is simiair to the influence of Cuban expatriates in setting policy toward Cuba. In addition, it was a Cold War issue. The Soviet Union was supporting the Arab countries. To have acted against our ally, could have been spun as being weak against communism. That was a sure loser at the polls.

Originally posted by 500lbguerilla
Bomb in ceiling caused Jordan hotel blast - source

Updated: 2:39 p.m. ET Nov. 9, 2005

AMMAN - A blast at the Radisson hotel in the Jordanian capital Amman on Wednesday was caused by a bomb placed in a false ceiling, police sources at the scene told Reuters.

http://www.msnbc.msn.com/id/9980123/
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This was put out on the 9th. Now the Corporate media is saying it was suicide bombers...

Often reports at the scene in the immediate aftermath of a dramatic event are wrong. Further review of what happened often prove this. I have no idea if this is the case, I am just pointing out that it is possible.

Originally posted by Imagineer
Often reports at the scene in the immediate aftermath of a dramatic event are wrong. Further review of what happened often prove this. I have no idea if this is the case, I am just pointing out that it is possible.

I just heard an Indian Dr. on NPR who lost his wife in that explosion and another man that was there described a suicide bomber coming in and exploding.

It seems the media may have outlived its usefulness if it insists on placing priority on speed rather than accuracy.

Looks like I spoke too Soon.

Take a look at this and tell me it wasn't a bomb in teh ceiling:
http://www.thetruthseeker.co.uk/images/picture/hyatt_ceiling.jpg

Looks like someones doing a cover up...

Get this...

Suspected bomber in Jordan detained, released by U.S. forces in '04
http://www.mercurynews.com/mld/mercurynews/news/world/13159581.htm

So lets see a guy disappears after being detained by the US after being caught fighting in Falluja. And they didn't send him to Abu G like the 70-90% other innocent Iraqis there? Yeah Right.

Then get a load of this:
http://www.freep.com/news/nw/iraq25e_20041125.htm

"It is unclear what happened to Hadid when U.S. troops entered Fallujah this month. Hadid's family and rebel associates say he survived the U.S. assault and is hiding in another town, still fighting and in charge. Some U.S. officials speculated that he was killed, but they offer no hard evidence."

So not a word on him being captured or released from Americans and Iraqis in this article. US officials even saying he may be dead.

This guy provides an interesting explaination. It seems that Jordanians, Palistinians, and Chinese were the ones killed in the blasts. No Israelis or Americans as one would assume the target of an Arab suicide bomber would be. Apparently China has been pushing for Palistine to be recognized. So 17 from one Palistinian family (we can assume this is the wedding crowd), The Palistinians spy cheif, and 3 chinese 40+ year old "students".

http://www.arab2000.net/wnewsDetails.asp?id=28293&cid=25

Heres another shot of the ceiling:

http://i.a.cnn.net/cnn/2005/WORLD/meast/11/14/jordan.blasts/top.jordan.mon1.ap.jpg

The girders bend downwards how can anyone believe that it was a suicide bomber and no a bomb in the ceiling?

I guess that woman they questioned is making it all up, Quarter Ton.

Yeah I mean I guess the reporters and the pictures are just making it up....

I'm not saying that there may not have been a suicide bomber in the other hotels but it seems painfully obvious that the Hyatt was a bomb in the ceiling.

Maybe the woman's husband climbed up and hid in the ceiling. No, that's not right. She said he stood in a corner.

Grasping at straws now are we?

Oh and lets ignore the fact that 2 suicide bombers detonating in the same spot is completely and utterly stupid. If the point is to kill a bunch of people and make a statement they would detonate at different places and different times.

After one blows up in the ballroom the other blows up at the enterence killing everyone in the bottle neck to escape. Simple. Why wasn't this the case?

And how is it that the Jordan authorities had absolutly no clue that this was going to happen but apprehend a participant within 48 hours

Why the cover up that Israelis were evacuated before the blasts?

Oh and lets ignore the fact that 2 suicide bombers detonating in the same spot is completely and utterly stupid. If the point is to kill a bunch of people and make a statement they would detonate at different places and different times.
Quarter Ton

Don't you even bother to read about topics you comment on? They weren't standing in the same place. The man was at one corner of a large room and his wife at an opposite corner. They placed themselves so as to cause the most carnage.

Well i just read an article that refers to them standing in opposite corners. However that also contradicts her confession (whihc I read earlier) that her husband pushed her out of the room then detonated himself. Seems kid of hard to push someone who standing on the other side of the room isn't it?

Jordan's Deputy Prime Minister Marwan Muasher said the woman's husband saw her fumbling with the cord on her explosives belt and "pushed her out of the ballroom" before detonating himself.
http://www.kfoxtv.com/news/5315470/detail.html

Oh and doesn't it seem a little risky that they both didn't detonate at the same time then?

They tried to detonate at the same time. His bomb went off, hers didn't. When she saw a crowd of people running out of the wedding room she joined them.

You're ignoring the conflicting statements of "pushed her out of the room" and "in opposite corners"

heres another:
http://www.haaretzdaily.com/hasen/pages/ShArtStEng.jhtml?itemNo=644446&contrassID=1&subContrassID=1&title='Haaretz%20-%20Israel%20News'
When the husband noticed his wife was having trouble detonating her bomb by pulling its primer cord, he "pushed her out of the ballroom. Once she was out, he blew himself
up," Muasher said.

So now you are saying they tried to detonate simultainiously and yet theres account saying "he noticed she couldn't detonate".

This shit stinks. The accounts are not consistant.

Look, there are always glitches in reports like this. The gist of the reports is that they both entered the ballroom, stood at opposite corners and tried to detonate their bombs. His detonated. Hers didn't. He died. She ran out with the crowd and was later aprehended. She admits she and her husband entered the hotel for the sole purpose of exploding bombs on their bodies to kill and maim as many innocent people as possible. These were not Shia or U.S. troops they killed but Jordanians and Palestinians celebrating a wedding.

You can concentrate on minutia in a vain attempt to lesson what they did but no matter how you try to twist it, they killed innocent people.

Originally posted by Imagineer
In the case of the USS Liberty, Israel outright attacked a U.S. Naval vessel. The Liberty was gathering intelligence on what was happening in the 1967 Arab-Israeli War. Israel had told the U.S. the day before to move the ship or it would be sunk. We didn't move it. They sunk it.

The curious part is this -- there was probably very little intel the Liberty could gather that the U.S. Navy could not have gathered with her land sites. At that particular point in the cold war, the navy had the most sophisticated communicaitons gathering system in history. They were the leaders in that field and guided/worked closely with the army, air force, the canadiens and the british.

Back in those days, the main types of transmitting intelligence (or non-intel types of communications such as weather reports and ships itinerary) was by contiuous wave (Morse code - usually encrypted), voice, teletype, fax and burst. The U.S. Navy had the best equipment and technicians in the world and very little of any of those communicating disciplines got past her huge gathering capabilities. The sites were like 7-11's -- one one every corner.

Given these circumstances, what was the Liberty doing off the Gaza and more importantly why didn't she leave rather than stay put and make a target of herself?

If she was there to listen-in or gather some special communications which the land bases couldn't handle, it would have had to be very low power and/or very low frequency, otherwise it would be attainable by normal means. And if so, how well could a ship at sea perform those duties given the fact that signals attenuate very quickly traveling over water and especially low-freq signals. What was the value added?

I had friends on the Liberty that were from my old unit. Several of them died that day. I've never been able to reconcile just what happened, probably never will. Just one of the many events in my life that placed me directly against wars. When you look around and realize you have more dead friends than live friends -- it's time to rethink life.

Originally posted by 500lbguerilla
Take a look at this and tell me it wasn't a bomb in teh ceiling:
http://www.thetruthseeker.co.uk/images/picture/hyatt_ceiling.jpg


It wasn't a bomb in the ceiling. Do you see any evidence of fire in the ceiling? I see a section of collapsed ceiling that shows no sign of fire, shrapnel, or blood surrounding it...what makes you think there was a bomb in there?

what was it then? You make a good point about scorch marks but something is missing. What could possible make a hole that big and bend metal girders?

What coud do that is a bomb in the room below which broke joints in the girders, combined with gravity.

Originally posted by 500lbguerilla
what was it then? You make a good point about scorch marks but something is missing. What could possible make a hole that big and bend metal girders?

It looks to me as though that section of wall/ceiling was damaged by a flying object, or maybe that section was torn away by workers after the bombs went off, possibly as part of a search for further explosives. It certainly doesn't look to me as though a bomb went off anywhere nearby...no burn marks, no blood and guts, no great amount of shrapnel.

BTW, those don't look like "girders" they look like thin aluminum strips used to support a "dropped ceiling".

Not all Jordanians believe in the Iraq war ...

http://www.washingtonpost.com/wp-dyn/content/article/2005/11/20/AR2005112001015.html

Headline of Dop's article
Jordanians' Feelings Mixed on Attacks
Anger Over Iraq War Leads Some to Take Private Pleasure in Hotel Blasts

A) That is sickening that people would find delight in such violence
B) What purpose do you have in posting an article saying that Jordanian's disagree with our crusade there? What concern is that to us? How does this discredit our efforts there? Why, Dop, why?

A) That is sickening that people would find delight in such violence


No more sickening then the united states military taking out innocent women, children and elders in places like Fallujah -- and not even blinking while doing it.


B) What purpose do you have in posting an article saying that Jordanian's disagree with our crusade there? What concern is that to us? How does this discredit our efforts there? Why, Dop, why?

I never said it discredited the war. The whole world has already discredited it by simple consensus -- there's not much left to say -- just posted a link I found interesting and wanted to share it with the forum. That's alright isn't it?

Originally posted by Lungdop Philing
A) That is sickening that people would find delight in such violence


No more sickening then the united states military taking out innocent women, children and elders in places like Fallujah -- and not even blinking while doing it.


B) What purpose do you have in posting an article saying that Jordanian's disagree with our crusade there? What concern is that to us? How does this discredit our efforts there? Why, Dop, why?

I never said it discredited the war. The whole world has already discredited it by simple consensus -- there's not much left to say -- just posted a link I found interesting and wanted to share it with the forum. That's alright isn't it?

Very well,

*waves scepter of acceptance*

The Evakian has granted you your wish, now peasant...fetch me my slippers! :D